Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 6

[DarthSkywalker]

It's not hard to understand that tons of people love the films even IF they aren't too accurate to the source material,Happens all the time with comic book movies.

I've read the books and I love them But I personally love the films much more overall,I feel it'd suck IF the Tolkien estate takes the rights back.

I understand their concerns&disappointment But as a fan I love Peter's vision&work and he would like to do more and I support him

I prefer the FOTR film to anything other then The Hobbit book. I get it. That doesn't change their stance. Also can't take the general audience opinion to seriously. The Twilight and Transformer franchises prove that. t:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

when it comes to this industry, the only problem i have is when a person gives the rights of their book to a film industry and they expect them to stay 100% faithful, and yet complain when it's not 100% faithful, even though they sold the rights to that film company... i find that very silly.

that company now has The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. their priority is to make a profit from this franchise, and they will do whatever they will to make a profit, and that includes changing the story, the characters, the flow, the tone, the dialogue, you name it... at this moment in time, the Tolkien family does not own The hobbit of the lord of the Rings. When they give those rights away, that industry has the right to change whatever they want to change for the sake of money.

they'll get it back eventually, but they dont own it right now... that may sound mean, but it's the truth. I love these movies, and it's these movies that inspired me to get the books, but to sit there and expect the film industry to stay 100% faithful, no matter what film that may be, that's being naive.

every single film adaptation has suffered from that. every single one.
that's what Hollywood is. a film industry that will make money at any cost.

What is your point exactly? Isn't like they go around complaining about the films, it is just we know they aren't fans of Jackson's films, thanks to Jackson's complaining really. They are simply waiting for to get the rights back and aren't going to give up the other rights. At least that is what seems to be going on. I don't understand your point at all considering.

 

[TX85]

What has been Jackson's complaints?

 

[Super Kal]

my point is that they should of expected some things to change... if they actually thought Hollywood would be 100% honest and faithful, then that was their fault, not the industry's fault.

i can understand their disappointment towards the film, and they have every right to be... but i hope they keep in mind that because of those films, they now have an audience that is willing to read the book itself because of the film's impact

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What has been Jackson's complaints?

CGHulk posted something on the last page. The first time I ever found out about them having a problem with the films is from a Peter interview.

It is also why I think Jackson has decided to turn the Hobbit into whatever this is going to be.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

my point is that they should of expected some things to change... if they actually thought Hollywood would be 100% honest and faithful, then that was their fault, not the industry's fault.

i can understand their disappointment towards the film, and they have every right to be... but i hope they keep in mind that because of those films, they now have an audience that is willing to read the book itself because of the film's impact

Kind of ridiculous. These books didn't need to add any audience. The audience created by the films is far fewer then the audience the films already had built in.

Also I still fail to see your point. I doubt they ever thought it would be 100% faithful, but I am sure they were made promises that they did not feel were kept.

 

[TX85]

CGHulk posted something on the last page. The first time I ever found out about them having a problem with the films is from a Peter interview.

It is also why I think Jackson has decided to turn the Hobbit into whatever this is going to be.

He didn't complain,He simply said he would love to do more But he doesn't think the Tolkien estate are fond of the films and so they won't release the rights to Silmarillion any time soon,That didn't come off as a complaint at all to me and just him saying he won't be able to do it and that was the reason

It likely is the reason why he made The Hobbit into a two film or potentially a trilogy But personally I feel he's making them into..GREAT FILMS

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He didn't complain,He simply said he would love to do more But he doesn't think the Tolkien estate are fond of the films and so they won't release the rights to Silmarillion any time soon,That didn't come off as a complaint at all to me and just him saying he won't be able to do it and that was the reason

It likely is the reason why he made The Hobbit into a two film or potentially a trilogy But personally I feel he's making them into..GREAT FILMS

You don't say stuff like that without it being for a reason.

As to the Hobbit films, I hope they are great. I have a really good feeling about the first film. ROTK and King Kong still linger in my mind though.

 

[Super Kal]

i did not say the books added to the audience... i said THE FILMS brought on a new audience, even a new generation, to read the books that Tolkein wrote.

i had never heard of these books until the film trilogy, but because of the films, i want to read the actual books... Peter Jackson's version of LOTR made me, not a Peter Jackson fan, but a LOTR fan. because of watching the films, i want to by and read the books, and see how the books make the story... also after hearing about the Silmarillion (sp), i'm really interested in that as well, and I will read that if I can get my hands on it

and if there were promises that werent kept, then welcome to the real world. People are always going to get screwed over, lied to, cheated out, and taken advantage of no matter who they are, or what they're doing. you have to be ready for that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

i did not say the books added to the audience... i said THE FILMS brought on a new audience, even a new generation, to read the books that Tolkein wrote.

i had never heard of these books until the film trilogy, but because of the films, i want to read the actual books... Peter Jackson's version of LOTR made me, not a Peter Jackson fan, but a LOTR fan. because of watching the films, i want to by and read the books, and see how the books make the story... also after hearing about the Silmarillion (sp), i'm really interested in that as well, and I will read that if I can get my hands on it

and if there were promises that werent kept, then welcome to the real world. People are always going to get screwed over, lied to, cheated out, and taken advantage of no matter who they are, or what they're doing. you have to be ready for that.

This has come down to you like the films and thus the film industry can do whatever it wants, but how dare the Estate take offense and not let them do what they want.

You seem to be ignoring what I write. I don't think the Tolkien Estate cares if it added readers. It already had tons of readers. These books were a big deal long before the films. Generations were going to read these books whether they were made or not. I did and I was born decades later. Same with Shakespeare, Dickens and Austen.

 

[Marvolo]

Sean Connery would have earned HOW MUCH if he'd played Gandalf?

We've known for years that Sean Connery was offered the role of Gandalf in Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings, but turned the role down because he didn't understand the story. What we didn't know until now was that Connery could have earned big, big money for the role, money that puts the earnings of many stars half his age to shame.

Peter Jackson and company were so keen to have Connery on board for the trilogy that they offered him a $10 million-per-film payday, which is a big chunk of cash by itself, but that's not the biggest number in this equation.

In exchange for playing Gandalf, Connery was also offered a 15 percent stake in the trilogy's earnings, which have climbed to nearly $3 billion as of this month. That means Connery could have earned a total of somewhere in the neighborhood of $450 million if he'd taken the role.

Yup, almost half a billion dollars. For three movies. We don't know exactly what Ian McKellen eventually pulled in for his work as Gandalf, but we're betting it was pretty far off that number.

And sure, Connery's basically retired from acting these days, and he's still sitting on a net worth of somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 million, but somewhere down inside he has to be kicking himself a little for not trying a little harder to understand Tolkien.

blastr.com/2012/11/sean-connery-could-have-m.php

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Scary numbers and for the wrong actor as well.

 

[Super Kal]

no, i never said that at all.
i specifically said, and i quote, "it doesnt make Hollywood 'right' in doing it"... it seems you missed that post.

i also simply used myself as an example of how these films can inspire a fan of the film to get interested in the books, and go read the book itself... you missed that implication too.

i'll let you in on something: if the Tolkein Estate did not care about a new generation of readers, they never would of complained. If they didn't care about their franchise, they never would of sold their rights to a film company. the film industry is a medium in which you can either gain a lot of popularity or a lot of negativity, and it's all for the sake of money.
So dont tell me, and dont sit here and think that they dont care. that's ignorance on your part. in today's society, EVERY franchise cares if they make money or not, of if they're popular or not...

the fact that the Tolkein Estate was disappointed in how the film trilogy was done shows that not only do they care about their franchise (which they have every right), they also care about how it is presented to the audience. I think they were disappointed because the way Peter Jackson presented these films was different in terms of the books, however, i can make an educated guess and say that they're pleased that their franchise made money, AND the success of these films has sparked a new generation of Tolkein book readers... I can almost honestly 100% say that was their goal from the very beginning.

now, does that make what Hollywood did right? absolutely not
but does that mean a franchise should blindly trust Hollywood? absolutely not

the goal of the Tolkein Estate in this endeavor was to make money and gain more popularity, and they did just that. the problem is, they didnt like how it was done... i guarantee you, though, just because they didn't like how these movies were made, it's not going to stop a new found interest into the books themselves.

The Tolkein Estate was screwed over. I'm sorry to hear they think they were screwed with, but they've got to think positively about their situation... it could of been a lot worse.

they could of been screwed over more, and the films could of been a worldwide failure.

 

[jacobed]

They didn't like the original trilogy? Wow, its easily the best adaptation those books will ever get.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You are under the assumption that they needed the films to find a new audience. That is clearly when you consider the works enduring popularity.

And it isn't like they need to look on the bright side. They are just simply waiting, making their money and not releasing more material right now. That is all. That is all it has ever been.

 

[Marvolo]

Superkal

Christopher Tolkien who heads the estate is like 90 years old and not a fan of the idea of his grandfathers work being put to film. Its not that he was displeased with the adaption (which he was) its more about the fact that in his mind no one can do it right. The man is of a different generation and failed to see that by Jackson making popular films he has drawn in even more fans of tolkien's work. Christopher also misses what JRR Tolkien set out to do. Which was, by his own admission, to give England a true mythology they could call their own. Tolkien always considered Arthur to be of french origin. As you know, im sure, mythology is handed down and changed and transformed by future generations. Jackson has done just that. He has taken JRR Tolkien's mythology and given it to a new generation in a new light. If Christopher cant see that due to his own bullheadedness not much can be done.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They didn't like the original trilogy? Wow, its easily the best adaptation those books will ever get.

That is a bold statement, especially after ROTK. In 30 years they could probably do a 50 hour television adaptation for half the cost. It'll look better as well.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Superkal

Christopher Tolkien who heads the estate is like 90 years old and not a fan of the idea of his grandfathers work being put to film. Its not that he was displeased with the adaption (which he was) its more about the fact that in his mind no one can do it right. The man is of a different generation and failed to see that by Jackson making popular films he has drawn in even more fans of tolkien's work. Christopher also misses what JRR Tolkien set out to do. Which was, by his own admission, to give England a true mythology they could call their own. Tolkien always considered Arthur to be of french origin. As you know, im sure, mythology is handed down and changed and transformed by future generations. Jackson has done just that. He has taken JRR Tolkien's mythology and given it to a new generation in a new light. If Christopher cant see that due to his own bullheadedness not much can be done.

And when he dies, I am sure the works will be given to the highest bidders.

 

[terry78]

Creators and creators' families rarely like moving picture adaptations of their work. That's just how they are.

 

[Marvolo]

And when he dies, I am sure the works will be given to the highest bidders.

Idk. Does Christopher have children?

Before Jackson's film i knew literally nothing about LOTR. I had never even heard of it. At 11, I was a star wars junkie. It is because of Jackson I became interested in Tolkien and his works. While i see and recognize the faults in Jackson's films, I will never damn them. Without them I most likely would still to this day be ignorant of Tolkien amazing mythology.

 

[Marvolo]

Creators and creators' families rarely like moving picture adaptations of their work. That's just how they are.

Its entirely understandable. To an author their work is their baby, and the family wants to protect that baby after the author passes. But there comes a point where the baby grows up and becomes bigger than its parent and must leave the nest. If you expect your child to be successful and make something of its self you have to let it fly.

 

[terry78]

Hell, look at Alan Moore. I respect the man, but at this point I just have to say, "**** you, man. We're adapting such and such, deal with it."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Idk. Does Christopher have children?

Before Jackson's film i knew literally nothing about LOTR. I had never even heard of it. At 11, I was a star wars junkie. It is because of Jackson I became interested in Tolkien and his works. While i see and recognize the faults in Jackson's films, I will never damn them. Without them I most likely would still to this day be ignorant of Tolkien amazing mythology.

According to wiki, He has three kids (one from his first marriage, two from his second), and apparently he disowned the oldest over the films. So perhaps his other two children are in line with his thinking.

I'll damn ROTK just for not being the film it should of been.

The only book series I can remember be brought to by the films was Harry Potter and James Bond.

 

[Marvolo]

According to wiki, He has three kids (one from his first marriage, two from his second), and apparently he disowned the oldest over the films. So perhaps his other two children are in line with his thinking.

I'll damn ROTK just for not being the film it should of been.

The only book series I can remember be brought to by the films was Harry Potter and James Bond.

The harry potter films also got me into the books. Havent read any James Bond books yet.

I hope whoever takes iver after christopher doesnt share his sentiments.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hell, look at Alan Moore. I respect the man, but at this point I just have to say, "**** you, man. We're adapting such and such, deal with it."

Alan Moore is a bit crazy, but when it comes to his films, I don't think he is wrong. He hasn't had one good adaptation.