Official UFC Thread - Part 7

[B]

And Canelo says he doesn't gain 20 pounds before fighting at 154, but he won't let anyone weigh him night of. Because they do this. Conor is extremely large for 145. He dwarfs guys. Even if he hydrates up to 155, are you suggesting that it wouldn't be better for his body to fight at 155 without cutting weight as opposed to doing so? Because it has adverse effects on your aerobic performance.

No.

Conor is more of a 155lb fighter than a 145lb fighter, when you begin to cut & dehydrate yourself anything more than about 10lbs & it starts to potentially start to take something out of you, but some guys get away with 15lbs & show no noticeable drops in performance. 20lbs+ is when it starts to get silly & it's about this point in which guys start struggling to make the weight or do make the weight & then struggle with their cardio the faster & longer the fight goes on.

Joe Rogan after the fight was perplexed by the question as well, because he did not understand why Conor thought it would be better for his gas tank. And I bet it is because Rogan knows how the weight Conor puts on after cutting.

Perplexed with what decision? For Conor to take the rematch at WW?

Also you said I was speaking nonsense, and yet avoided the examples I gave you. Why?

I ignored them because they are 2 different sorts of fighters with different sorts of weight cut that are both quite extreme & I don't really want to get into a lengthy debate about the entire UFC rosters individual weight cuts. But to keep peace I'll indulge you with these 2. Hendricks problem is that he balloons up in between fights to 210lbs+ & when he gets a WW fight he hasn't found a suitable diet or can't stick to a diet, that helps him gradually shift the weight off during an 6-12 week camp. Then he get's into a mad scramble trying to cut 20lbs+ or so during fight week which is far too much leaving him so drained.

Rumble at WW was a similar story his was an extreme weight cut & it's no wonder he looked so drained in some of those WW bouts, I remember reading that one of the times he fought at WW he was trying to cut from 195lbs to 170lbs on fight week, obviously resulting in him missing the weight. How Rumble ever made WW is truly amazing, there was a picture of him I saw when he was a WW standing alongside Jon Jones & he looked bigger than Jones.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

who's trolling? my point is that you , sir, have no real world experience and are talking out of your backside. You are trying to pass yourself off as some one that knows, but, you know, doesnt. that is what i am stating.

Why does one require real world experience when there is actual research on this topic to prove the point? You say I am talking out of my backside, say I am talking nonsense, and yet you have proved nothing in the way of support for your argument. All you have done is insult me, which is in fact trolling.

 

[B]

What are you talking about? A lot of these guys aren't carrying around extra weight or heft when they are in camp. Maybe as they go up in weight.

My point is this. Cutting an unnatural amount of weight the day before a fight doesn't improve your performance. Because that's definitely not what they weigh in as when they get to the cage.

Anthony Johnson used to cut as much as 50 pounds to get down to 170 pounds during his camp. It was insane.

He's moved up two weight classes and he fights better than ever.

Exactly. The key word being unnatural. It only becomes unnatural when the amount of weight you have to cut or dehydrate yourself by in order to get into a weightclass that will in theory allow you to be one of the bigger men in the division, starts to drain you to the point that you're performance is compromised due to the weight cut being so draining. It's a fine balance.

Rumbles weight cut to WW was extreme, no clue how he ever made 170.. those weight cuts must have been incredibly mentally challenging.. well the ones he actually made weight on anyway.

Speaking of Rumble how good did he look tonight? Jeezus the power & speed he has in his hands is absolutely shocking. He could have already been legend status had he immediately started his career at LHW when he noticed his weight cuts were a little extreme.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I didn't say weight cutting isn't bad for your body, particularly your kidneys, but in terms of performance unless you're getting extreme with your weight cuts in terms of pure dehydration or trying to cut too much too fast, carrying additional weight is more hurtful to your performance/cardio than a weight cut should be. Which is obviously the case for both Nate & Conor, have you ever seen Conor tire like that at FW? or Nate slow down at LW?

How many times has Conor fought past the second round? According to the fight finder Conor has had 2 matches go past the second round in the UFC, a decision against Holloway in 2013 and tonight. They emphasized this during the commentary.

The reason guys cut weight is for size advantage. To physically overwhelm their opponent's. That is what Conor does at 145. His power over his opponent's allows him to get them out early. He can't do that with Nate.

And yes I have seen Nate slow down at LW.

 

[TheVileOne]

How many times has Conor fought past the second round? According to the fight finder Conor has had 2 matches go past the second round in the UFC, a decision against Holloway in 2013 and tonight. They emphasized this during the commentary.

The reason guys cut weight is for size advantage. To physically overwhelm their opponent's. That is what Conor does at 145. His power over his opponent's allows him to get them out early. He can't do that with Nate.

And yes I have seen Nate slow down at LW.

He went three rounds with Max Holloway. Besides this fight, that was the only other time he went past two rounds from what I can tell.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No.

Conor is more of a 155lb fighter than a 145lb fighter, when you begin to cut & dehydrate yourself anything more than about 10lbs & it starts to potentially start to take something out of you, but some guys get away with 15lbs & show no noticeable drops in performance. 20lbs+ is when it starts to get silly & it's about this point in which guys start struggling to make the weight or do make the weight & then struggle with their cardio the faster & longer the fight goes on.

When you cut you dehydrate your body. There is no getting around this. Losing 10 pounds in a small period of time and then gaining the weight back rapidly, is not good and it adversely effects performance. Saying someone can "get away" with it is inaccurate. It physically diminishes a fighter. It is a question if the cost outweighs the benefits for them.

Perplexed with what decision? For Conor to take the rematch at WW?

At 155. Conor brought it up and Rogan didn't understand why he thought it would help his cardio.

I ignored them because they are 2 different sorts of fighters with different sorts of weight cut that are both quite extreme & I don't really want to get into a lengthy debate about the entire UFC rosters individual weight cuts. But to keep peace I'll indulge you with these 2. Hendricks problem is that he balloons up in between fights to 210lbs+ & when he gets a WW fight he hasn't found a suitable diet or can't stick to a diet, that helps him gradually shift the weight off during an 6-12 week camp. Then he get's into a mad scramble trying to cut 20lbs+ or so during fight week which is far too much leaving him so drained.

Rumble at WW was a similar story his was an extreme weight cut & it's no wonder he looked so drained in some of those WW bouts, I remember reading that one of the times he fought at WW he was trying to cut from 195lbs to 170lbs on fight week, obviously resulting in him missing the weight. How Rumble ever made WW is truly amazing, there was a picture of him I saw when he was a WW standing alongside Jon Jones & he looked bigger than Jones.

Did you read what you wrote earlier?

Carrying additional weight hurts it even more. If you want a practical test to help understand the science behind the theory, go do 3 sets of 20 wide grip pullups. Wait 1 whole day, then go do the exact same but this time strap a 5kg-10kg plate around your waist.

Once you've done that, then come back to me & try to argue that the one without the weight was equally as draining as with the weight.

That is exactly why those examples apply. Using your logic less weight equals better physical condition. That clearly isn't true, or using that theory even extreme cutting wouldn't diminish performance.

If I a guy weighs 156 pounds on fight now, but cuts to 145, what you will have is a guy who still weights 156 on fight now, but he put his body through the physical trauma of weight cutting.

Conor doesn't "walk around" at 169, he fights at it. It is why he is getting ever so close to just bailing on 145. He laid more ground work tonight in the post-fight stuff. Aldo was/is a "big" FW. He comes in like a 160 on fight night, probably more. Conor is much bigger.

 

[B]

How many times has Conor fought past the second round? According to the fight finder Conor has had 2 matches go past the second round in the UFC, a decision against Holloway in 2013 and tonight. They emphasized this during the commentary.

The reason guys cut weight is for size advantage. To physically overwhelm their opponent's. That is what Conor does at 145. His power over his opponent's allows him to get them out early. He can't do that with Nate.

And yes I have seen Nate slow down at LW.

True, but think about the pace Conor fought at tonight. He was slow, calm & calculated in the 1st & 2nd picking Nate apart, yet still showed alarming signs of fatigue near the end of the 2nd round. Then compare that to his FW contests that have went 1-3 rounds in which his pace has been much quicker with a higher output & he's looked fairly fresh in all the contests.

I personally can't think if any fights off the top of my head that I've seen Nate slow down in a 3 or 5 round fight, they always seem to be at a constant speed. Never really loading up for that wild KO punch, more a prolonged period of punches that just wear down guys.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

True, but think about the pace Conor fought at tonight. He was slow, calm & calculated in the 1st & 2nd picking Nate apart, yet still showed alarming signs of fatigue near the end of the 2nd round. Then compare that to his FW contests that have went 1-3 rounds in which his pace has been much quicker with a higher output & he's looked fairly fresh in all the contests.

I personally can't think if any fights off the top of my head that I've seen Nate slow down in a 3 or 5 round fight, they always seem to be at a constant speed. Never really loading up for that wild KO punch, more a prolonged period of punches that just wear down guys.

You know why that is right? Because he is hitting someone who it is tiring to hit. When he hits a FW that hard, they get hurt, and he finishes them. He does that to Nate, and it doesn't work that way. That is exhausting. Throwing full fledged leg kicks is tiring. Throwing punches that will knock Nate Diaz down is tiring. It is the same with getting hit by someone bigger, even if they aren't big punchers. It is why there are weight classes. Nate still cuts to get down to 170. So even for Conor, he is a big guy.

Nate slows down. Their consistency of throwing punches doesn't really change, what does is how much he moves. A good example is the RDA fight for Nate. He is huffing and puffing and come the third he isn't really bouncing like he is in the first. Two more rounds of that? Nah.

 

[TheVileOne]

Time for Conor McGregor to defend his belt or relinquish it.

 

[B]

When you cut you dehydrate your body. There is no getting around this. Losing 10 pounds in a small period of time and then gaining the weight back rapidly, is not good and it adversely effects performance. Saying someone can "get away" with it is inaccurate. It physically diminishes a fighter. It is a question if the cost outweighs the benefits for them.

Yes & no, you're straying away from what I originally said. Conor essentially entered the cage at WW carrying an additional 10lbs more than he usually would when he's fighting at FW, usually entering the cage at 160lbs give or take at FW & tonight was probably 170lbs in the cage, my point was that carrying that extra 10lbs weight for a 25 minute bout hurts cardio more than what cutting 10lbs the night before would.

I'm not saying cutting weight from a dehydration standpoint improves cardio or is good for your body, what I'm saying is from a performance standpoint carrying that extra 10lb weight is harder & more draining cutting 10lb the night before is.

At 155. Conor brought it up and Rogan didn't understand why he thought it would help his cardio.

Well he'd be leaner at 155 & wouldn't be cutting anything substantial to make 155 because it's more natural to him. So without question 155 would be Conor's optimal weight class.

That is exactly why those examples apply. Using your logic less weight equals better physical condition. That clearly isn't true, or using that theory even extreme cutting wouldn't diminish performance.

You're misunderstanding, the logic with the pullups & the weight plate is that with additional weight they are obviously going to be more difficult & wear you out faster.

Both Conor & Nate were carrying more body fat & timber than they are used to at their typical weight classes tonight hense why I feel both seemed to fatigue faster than I expected.

 

[B]

You know why that is right? Because he is hitting someone who it is tiring to hit. When he hits a FW that hard, they get hurt, and he finishes them. He does that to Nate, and it doesn't work that way. That is exhausting. Throwing full fledged leg kicks is tiring. Throwing punches that will knock Nate Diaz down is tiring. It is the same with getting hit by someone bigger, even if they aren't big punchers. It is why there are weight classes. Nate still cuts to get down to 170. So even for Conor, he is a big guy.

All very true, the weight in general played a part in both fighters performances.

Nate slows down. Their consistency of throwing punches doesn't really change, what does is how much he moves. A good example is the RDA fight for Nate. He is huffing and puffing and come the third he isn't really bouncing like he is in the first. Two more rounds of that? Nah.

I can't really recall the RDA fight off the top off my head so I cannot recall, I believe you though. Nate's cardio is ridiculously good though, and Nick's.

 

[Doc Samson]

BS decision. Nate won the third and fifth, easily. The third he won 10-8. I hate judges who don't have the damn brains to judge a round 10-8 or 10-10. The best Conor could have got was a draw.

Conor gassed like crazy again. He can't handle the pace. If Nate had been trying for the takedown earlier, he would have finished him. Damnit.

Tend to agree, although in my mind it was a foregone conclusion Diaz wasn't going to get a decision if it were at all debatable. Just wouldn't make sense for business.

That said, nothing but props to Conor. Even with the loss he probably could've forced the fight at a lower weight, he sucked it up and took the rematch anyway. Regardless of your stance on the weight issue, if nothing else, it's clear he's nowhere near as powerful at 170, especially dealing with Nate. But he fought a little smarter, a little more composed, and withstood some fire...

 

[The Endless]

What a fight. A true war. Both fighters showed a lot of respect to each other.

It was tight but I say McGregor won. He dominated 1 and 2 (Diaz only had a 20 second flurry at the end). 3 went to Diaz comfortably. 4 was McGregors and he just edged 5.

 

[I'm Batman.]

I was pulling for McGregor, like I said yesterday, and while I'm enjoying the salt from the Diaz side getting shut up, I'll leave it there. These guys put on a fight that was everything fans could've asked for other than a knockout. Props to both of them for leaving it all out there and showing respect for each other at the end. I wasn't sure which way the decision would go McGregor had more precision in the damage he did while Diaz had more overall power in his. Damage isn't all visual.

 

[LoganGambit87]

man how good did Cerrone look he looks like a contender at 170

 

[TheVileOne]

man how good did Cerrone look he looks like a contender at 170

Cerrone was a contender at lightweight. His problem is always that he doesn't perform in title fights.

 

[B]

man how good did Cerrone look he looks like a contender at 170

I think once he starts getting the upper echelon of the welterweight ranks he'll start to struggle with the size & power of some of the bigger guys. But he did look good & I wouldn't mind seeing him have a go at trying to climb the WW rankings.

 

[strikezone89]

When do you think we will get the third match between Connor and Diaz?

 

[TheVileOne]

McGregor is the champion of a division with a belt he's yet to defend.

 

[E-Man]

BS decision. Nate won the third and fifth, easily. The third he won 10-8. I hate judges who don't have the damn brains to judge a round 10-8 or 10-10. The best Conor could have got was a draw.

Conor gassed like crazy again. He can't handle the pace. If Nate had been trying for the takedown earlier, he would have finished him. Damnit.

How do you give Diaz a 10-8 3rd round without giving Conor a 10-8 1st round? McGregor's first round was more dominant than Nate's 3rd, so if you're going to get mad at the judges for not giving a 10-8 then that's the round to get angry about.

 

[Knight Scar]

If Conor's next fight isn't defending the featherweight belt I say give it up and fight Eddie Alvarez for the lightweight title.

 

[B]

McGregor is the champion of a division with a belt he's yet to defend.

I agree completely that he should defend the title next or vacate it, but at the same time I think it's a little silly regarding the outcries for him to be stripped. Simply because there are numerous occasions in which a champion has went 12+ months without defending a title & there have been no similar outcries. Regardless of the circumstances as to why they didn't defend their title for over 12 months, it is still a period of inactivity in the division that has held everything up, Jose Aldo has done it 2 or 3 times in the FW division alone through numerous pullouts & delays in facing No. 1 contenders.

They shouldn't have created an interim title for the Aldo/Edgar fight, it should have just been labelled a title eliminator bout.

 

[LoganGambit87]

sorry guys but i do not like mcgregor's chances at 155 it took him 2 fights to barely squeak by a fighter with 10 losses

 

[B]

How do you give Diaz a 10-8 3rd round without giving Conor a 10-8 1st round? McGregor's first round was more dominant than Nate's 3rd, so if you're going to get mad at the judges for not giving a 10-8 then that's the round to get angry about.

I watched the rerun of bout again & I still give McGregor 1, 2 & 4, Diaz 3 & 5.

There were no 10-8 rounds in this contest, just more 1 sided 10-9 rounds IMO. The judges call was 100% correct with the exception of the 1 judge that scored it 47-47 in which the only difference was he gave Diaz the 3rd round 10-8, if that was a 10-8 round then the 1st round was a 10-8 to McGregor, it's that simple because they were equally dominant. The decision should have been unanimous one for McGregor as opposed to a majority.

It was a close contest but Conor definitely won the fight & the vast majority are in agreement.

 

[B]

sorry guys but i do not like mcgregor's chances at 155 it took him 2 fights to barely squeak by a fighter with 10 losses

Nate's a top 5 LW & been fighting top 5 LW's the majority of his career. Just because he has 10 loses certainly does not make him a pushover for anyone.

You also have to consider fighting styles as well comes into play as well.