Part III (Spoiler Thread)

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

All I know is Hot Toys should release a TCW accurate Anakin and a Obi-Wan accurate Vader, and then I can have all the Anakins fight for supremacy. My money is on TPM Annie. He has a speeder he can run the others over with.

They have announced an Obi-Wan Vader Sixth Scale!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They have announced an Obi-Wan Vader Sixth Scale!

 

[Gaultheria]

The Anakin vs Vader duel

I know what you meant, but if we ever get to see one of Vader’s dreams, I hope this is it.

 

[Another_Fool]

Okay, while I'm totally digging Hayden here, I do find this kind of hilarious. Because you know, he's in the suit, with the vocal synth.

And to make clear, I'm a fan of the PT and this show.

??

I fail to see what was so ridiculous about what I said.

I'm comparing his physical performance in the suit. Would you say his physical performance in Revenge of the Sith is better than this episode? In ROTS, Lucas directed him to look stiff which got criticized when ROTS came out, along with the "Nooooo" scene. I didn't say Hayden in today's episode gave an Emmy winning performance. Did I say anything about "oh but look at the emotion he's exuding through the mask" or some hyperbole? It was just one of the examples I gave as to how Obi-Wan is a proper continuation of ROTS, not some bland offshoot the way the prior poster implied.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

??

I fail to see what was so ridiculous about what I said.

I'm comparing his physical performance in the suit. Would you say his physical performance in Revenge of the Sith is better than this episode? In ROTS, Lucas directed him to look stiff which got criticized when ROTS came out, along with the "Nooooo" scene. I didn't say Hayden in today's episode gave an Emmy winning performance. Did I say anything about "oh but look at the emotion he's exuding through the mask" or some hyperbole? It was just one of the examples I gave as to how Obi-Wan is a proper continuation of ROTS, not some bland offshoot the way the prior poster implied.

What I always dug about Hayden was his physicality. He came off as a warrior and hero. Especially in RotS. When he stepped off the bed in RotS, it was his first time on those legs. I would expect him to be stiff, not use to his new body.

 

[Another_Fool]

What I always dug about Hayden was his physicality. He came off as a warrior and hero. Especially in RotS. When he stepped off the bed in RotS, it was his first time on those legs. I would expect him to be stiff, not use to his new body.

I don't disagree with any of this.

 

[Marvolo]

I think this episode had the best on screen visualization of the effects of the dark side on a Jedi. We always hear a Jedi say they sense the dark side, or their vision is clouded, or something along those lines, but its never shown in a vivid external way. But here Vader rolls into town and Obi gets hit with a hurricane of PTSD and body locking terror. The hero of the Clone Wars who never gave up and was never too scared to fight and defend people was reduced to a scared kid running from the boogeyman. Even the hallucination was a neat way to show that the dark side was drawing closer to Obi and was coming for him.

Id love to see more of this kind of externalization of the Dark Side, its corruption, and its impact on surrounding people. Show how it gets in a person and preys on their fears and amplifies them.

Edit: Some of yall may already know this or remember it, but one of the early ideas for Luke in the Sequel Trilogy was that after the destruction of his academy he would be tormented by dark side spirits. Taking the form of an Anakin/Vader hybrid and Sidious and other forms. They would enhance and prey on his guilt while he was in exile. There is a few pieces of concept art visualizing some of it. Idk if Deborah deliberately got the idea from that, but its nice that the idea has been used in a way in this show.

Edit 2: I need someone to ask Deborah if she was trying to make a joke when she had Vader try to burn Obi by lighting sand on fire. That was some top shelf meme humor right there.

 

[flickchick85]

Ok this episode was fire (literally)!!!

After the prequels, I'm always wary of any new live-action SW material using Vader, just because I hate to see his rep get tarnished, but if he keeps getting used like he was here and in Rogue One, I certainly won't be complaining. Still one of the greatest screen villains ever, damn. Also, if that really was Hayden in the suit that whole time, then bravo to him because that body language was on. point.

Also, Reva didn't bother me so much in this one. Kind of intrigued to learn her story tbh.

 

[flickchick85]

I would say the animated stuff far surpasses Revenge of the Sith.

 

[Marvolo]

I would say the animated stuff far surpasses Revenge of the Sith.

The animated stuff pretty much is the foundation holding ROTS up. Lucas just built the house before anyone laid the foundation. I remember before Clone Wars ROTS didn't have nearly as much emotional weight. And now thanks to Filoni Order 66 and Anakin's betrayal actually hurts. Anakin's betrayal no longer feels like a sudden turn. Its 3 years of BS and manipulation and war and death and loss culminating in a desperate breakdown.

 

[Man in the Suit]

I look forward to the behind the scenes. They are clearly doing something in the audio with Vader's voice. Vader with the Inquisitors was Vader classic. But when he confronted Obi-wan, it was Jones' voice, but something about how it was coming out was reminiscent of Christenson.

I'm super curious. Some of the deliveries in that scene just don't sound like Jones' usual acting choices, even in his more recent appearances - but they do sound a lot like Christensen ones. If he's acting with his voice, that'd be very cool and a much more interesting use of the tech than emotionless AI Luke.

The company that does the AI voice (Respeecher) is credited at the end. An interviewer asked Hayden a few weeks ago if James Earl Jones was returning and he said "no comment." So yeah, it's definitely some sort of AI.

 

[fan4stic]

The very definition of superiority is doing something better. You also haven't presented reasons. You have presented preferences. Same as me. So your argument holds no water about not providing reasons. Saying "I thought this was good about ROTS" isn't providing a reason.

Give me dynamic backgrounds that have less stuff in it but look real over green screen crap spewed all over the place that has no purpose other than to be shiny balls for cats, and ones that are poorly worked into those backgrounds at that and look fake.

On the acting front, the performances outside of the Emperor are basically bad in ROTS. At least the Emperor has fun chewing scenery, but everyone else is reading lines and no one has chemistry. In Kenobi, everything is just more believable and done better. Characters illicit emotions from me. ROTS only ever illicit laughter from me. Vader in Kenobi, scary. Vader in ROTS, a joke. A meme. I felt more tension watching Obi-Won run for his life than I did watching the same characters whack at each other with fake looking lava everywhere on dueling columns.

Again, like what you like amigo. But you won't convince me that ROTS has any qualities where it is better than Kenobi at this point.

I think it's not better. I think I never stated, factually, that I was speaking anything other than my preferences. I think you made statements.

If the backgrounds looked dynamic, I may agree, but I think almost none of it does. I'll take CGI, that I don't think is really particularly bad, over that.

I entirely disagree. Frank Oz I think gives a solid vocal performance. Hayden's performance is only weak, to me, in parts of the movie, and strong and intense in others. Ewan's I think is solid in a lot of parts. Samuel L. Jackson's I think isn't bad. Even parts of Natalie Portman's performance, though admittedly she has less material, to me, to work with. I think Ewan, so far, is the only one firing on solid cylinders in this show, consistently. I think the Tala actress was solid in this episode, but from anyone else, I think many things fall flat.

I got not a lot of real intimidation from Vader in Kenobi, to me. Maybe the idea, the potential of it, but I think it fell flat. I found ROTS, even non suited Vader, as more sinister, when he was performing as an active villain. I think this felt lame and empty. More bland, lacking weight, like a lot of things in these shows. I feel like being in the Vader suit killing people seems like it'd be cool, but I think the fighting choreography, lacking focus on performance/filmography and wire work in this episode was so weak, in more than a couple ways, that I find it more looking awkward and/or silly than investment worthy. I thought watching Obi-Wan run for his life looked comical, like he was exiting stage left.

I haven't felt convinced really, similarly. Almost everything you said, I found to be bland corporate gruel, like a lot of DisneyTM assembly line products. Mostly bland stories, mostly bland characters, lack of interesting/creative settings, empty soulless cashgrabs with no real weight, heart, creativity, meaning or real drive behind the making of them.

 

[fan4stic]

Ewan is amazing on this show, better than in the prequels and I LOVED him throughout those films.

I think he's not being given a very rounded character to have a rounded out performance. I feel like it's a fairly by the numbers broken man becomes heroic again type of character thing. Solid performance, to me, but not as emotionally entangled/rounded out as I think he did have, even if his performance was flawed in places, in ROTS. Do I think the show is maybe more consistent? Sure. To me, better? I'm not feelin' it. I think he had a lot more intensity emotionally, in his performance in that. I thought Hayden had a lot of emotional intensity in ROTS, similarly.

Very far from that.

The animated stuff pretty much is the foundation holding ROTS up. Lucas just built the house before anyone laid the foundation. I remember before Clone Wars ROTS didn't have nearly as much emotional weight. And now thanks to Filoni Order 66 and Anakin's betrayal actually hurts. Anakin's betrayal no longer feels like a sudden turn. Its 3 years of BS and manipulation and war and death and loss culminating in a desperate breakdown.

I feel less emotional weight to it. I think Anakin feels like a weaker character, in the TCW, to me, less emotionally tormented, less in depth. More like a jock.

Order 66, I think isn't changed too much, for me. I always felt emotion in that scene, and others have, as well. To me, the foundation was there.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think it's not better. I think I never stated, factually, that I was speaking anything other than my preferences. I think you made statements.

If the backgrounds looked dynamic, I may agree, but I think almost none of it does. I'll take CGI, that I don't think is really particularly bad, over that.

I entirely disagree. Frank Oz I think gives a solid vocal performance. Hayden's performance is only weak, to me, in parts of the movie, and strong and intense in others. Ewan's I think is solid in a lot of parts. Samuel L. Jackson's I think isn't bad. Even parts of Natalie Portman's performance, though admittedly she has less material, to me, to work with. I think Ewan, so far, is the only one firing on solid cylinders in this show, consistently. I think the Tala actress was solid in this episode, but from anyone else, I think many things fall flat.

I got not a lot of real intimidation from Vader in Kenobi, to me. Maybe the idea, the potential of it, but I think it fell flat. I found ROTS, even non suited Vader, as more sinister, when he was performing as an active villain. I think this felt lame and empty. More bland, lacking weight, like a lot of things in these shows. I feel like being in the Vader suit killing people seems like it'd be cool, but I think the fighting choreography, lacking focus on performance/filmography and wire work in this episode was so weak, in more than a couple ways, that I find it more looking awkward and/or silly than investment worthy. I thought watching Obi-Wan run for his life looked comical, like he was exiting stage left.

I haven't felt convinced really, similarly. Almost everything you said, I found to be bland corporate gruel, like a lot of DisneyTM assembly line products. Mostly bland stories, mostly bland characters, lack of interesting/creative settings, empty soulless cashgrabs with no real weight, heart, creativity, meaning or real drive behind the making of them.

Hey, you do you. But the "bland corporate gruel" is way better than what Lucas delivered with ROTS. At least the corporate gruel is competent.

Not replying to you beyond this post.

 

[fan4stic]

Hey, you do you. But the "bland corporate gruel" is way better than what Lucas delivered with ROTS. At least the corporate gruel is competent.

Not replying to you beyond this post.

You don't decide it's better. What I feel is less personal, less emotional, less creative, to me isn't better. To me it's not really competent to do something like that, because I see it as not viewed through the lens of real character, story, emotional weight, quality. But through empty gestures and feigned illusions of weight and character, while the story is dragged behind, to me.

I distinctly think that ROTS is better in mostly all the, writing structure wise, ways that I see as what measures a quality work. To me, story, character, emotional weight. While I think Kenobi has very little of those things.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

 

[flickchick85]

You don't decide it's better.

He has just as much right to decide what's better as you do.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You don't decide it's better. What I feel is less personal, less emotional, less creative, to me isn't better. To me it's not really competent to do something like that, because I see it as not viewed through the lens of real character, story, emotional weight, quality. But through empty gestures and feigned illusions of weight and character, while the story is dragged behind, to me.

I distinctly think that ROTS is better in mostly all the, writing structure wise, ways that I see as what measures a quality work. To me, story, character, emotional weight. While I think Kenobi has very little of those things.

We all decide what's better in our own opinion.

I think he's not being given a very rounded character to have a rounded out performance. I feel like it's a fairly by the numbers broken man becomes heroic again type of character thing. Solid performance, to me, but not as emotionally entangled/rounded out as I think he did have, even if his performance was flawed in places, in ROTS. Do I think the show is maybe more consistent? Sure. To me, better? I'm not feelin' it. I think he had a lot more intensity emotionally, in his performance in that. I thought Hayden had a lot of emotional intensity in ROTS, similarly.Very far from that.I feel less emotional weight to it. I think Anakin feels like a weaker character, in the TCW, to me, less emotionally tormented, less in depth. More like a jock.

Order 66, I think isn't changed too much, for me. I always felt emotion in that scene, and others have, as well. To me, the foundation was there.

What makes Anakin a jock in TCW? In the emotionally tormented stakes, I feel like the major emotional high points of TCW and Rebels have always done a great job of delving into the darkness of Anakin Skywalker. I felt the same here.

One thing I adored in this episode was that through his actions spoke louder then just his words. His eyes in the tank, the way he dragged Obi-Wan, the cat and mouse. He's there to torture the man. That's hate.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Also, I need to apologizes to Chow. She back to GOAT Star Wars TV status alongside Rick and Howard.

 

[Marvolo]

I liked the little detail of Obi having to pull down on the end of his hilt just so he could withstand Vader's strength and keep his blade from being forced down. Reminds me of the moment in the ROS duel when Rey shakes her hand because Kylo was striking the saber so hard that it hurt her hand. Those little moments make the duels seem a bit more real.

 

[fan4stic]

He has just as much right to decide what's better as you do.

I don't think I said I decided it what was better.

We all decide what's better in our own opinion.

What work of fiction we think is better is different, to me, than stating what's better.

What makes Anakin a jock in TCW? In the emotionally tormented stakes, I feel like the major emotional high points of TCW and Rebels have always done a great job of delving into the darkness of Anakin Skywalker. I felt the same here.

To me, the less emotional vocal performance, parts of the design, the writing's attempts to, in my opinion force a more cool vibe for the character, that I saw.

One thing I adored in this episode was that through his actions spoke louder then just his words. His eyes in the tank, the way he dragged Obi-Wan, the cat and mouse. He's there to torture the man. That's hate.

I think it's cheap. The only thing I really got anything out of was when Vader, that I remember, was vocally taunting him, actually engaging with Obi-Wan as a character, as Obi-Wan was in the dark with his ignited lightsaber. That, to me, was not only emotionally, but also visually stimulating. Then I felt the cinematography, wire work and choreography got weak.

The eyes being angry, to me, isn't a lot. His dragging of Obi-Wan I felt was weakened by the wonky, to me, wire work of Obi-Wan hanging and wiggling as he hung, and, again, the lack of explored shots, that I remember. Just yeah, Obi-Wan's being dragged. I liked the idea, but felt it was done in a fairly generic, and less personal visceral way.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I really don’t think Vader LET Obi Wan get away.
If that’s what they wanted it to be then it could have been handled much better than it was.
Vader seemed pretty content with throwing him around and torturing him and I think that would have continued if that other character hadn’t intervened.
Vader searched for this dude for 10 years. I don’t think he’d let him slip away again for who knows how long.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

 

[Albright]

The lighting during the duel really flashed me - my living room was all blue and red
Very similar to the lighting at the Dooku duel in AtoC

 

[Mani-Man]

I was slightly dissapointed in the meeting, i was hoping for more dialogue, for more rage on vaders side etc.
You could have done more with their first real meeting, the impact could have been so much stronger.

When it comes to it, i feel like the suit up scene was stronger because it showed how less of Anakin is left.
Its why i even more want a Vader show now.
A show where we can see how he is just existing because of Pain and Rage, how much of shell he is...that the once so fast and agile Anakin, has become someone imprisoned in a uncomfortable and painful suit that needs to rely on the force and his brute strength.

I think that could make ROTJ even stronger and how Luke was able to bring his father back to light side.

But dont get me wrong, it still gave me goosebumps seeing Obi Wan and Vader share a scene.