Prometheus - Part 8

[Destructus86]

That analysis is way too long. There is a reason why the word ANAL is in analysis.

 

[chamber-music]

Fine heres the simple answer t:

 

[Nightmare]

lol

 

[chaseter]

The crew in that room already knew about the alien baby. They are on Weyland's payroll. Remember...they were hand picked. They were to bring the embryo back to Earth by putting her in stasis.

I already mentioned that...people don't read when the blinders are on...they just restate their issues again and again.

 

[Schlosser85]

That analysis is way too long. There is a reason why the word ANAL is in analysis.

My eyes glazed over just at the sight of it, and I write movie reviews.

 

[Eggyman]

Not sure what the deal with the distress call is about if it's supposed to be a different planet. Just litte things like that bother me.

 

[redhawk23]

The crew in that room already knew about the alien baby. They are on Weyland's payroll. Remember...they were hand picked. They were to bring the embryo back to Earth by putting her in stasis.

And yet did nothing where instead of going into stasis gives herself a cessarian and gives herself birth. Again if they're so interested in the embryo...why does everyone ignore it?

Also I doubt Weyland/Weyland Co. knew much about what they were going to find on the planet or anything with the embryo. Now doubt it was coordinated with David mid-mission but the embryo had nothing to do with the crew selection.

And I reiterate myself Chaseter because people keep asking the same question, i.e. What problems people have with the script.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I already mentioned that...people don't read when the blinders are on...they just restate their issues again and again.

Lol what did you address, exactly?

David makes it clear that he wants to put Shaw in stasis, even to go as far as getting two other crew members to try to subdue her. When she breaks out and does the C-section, it's not even mentioned again by anyone. So, what did those other scientists do after she punched them out? They just got up and went "Oh well!" and went on with their lives?

It was clearly a plot device to set up the end of the film, and the script has many of those: shallow and stupid events that serve no purpose other than to drive the action forward or provide another set piece.

 

[chaseter]

And yet did nothing where instead of going into stasis gives herself a cessarian and gives herself birth. Again if they're so interested in the embryo...why does everyone ignore it?

Also I doubt Weyland/Weyland Co. knew much about what they were going to find on the planet or anything with the embryo. Now doubt it was coordinated with David mid-mission but the embryo had nothing to do with the crew selection.

And I reiterate myself Chaseter because people keep asking the same question, i.e. What problems people have with the script.

Because she friggin sterilized it. Who cares about a dead alien in containment? She then shows up to go with them...do you think they thought she let it loose to infect the entire ship? They knew she dealt with it and they all thought it was dead.

TOMG what did they do with the exploded engineer head!? It didn't show them properly disposing of it. Where did it go ahhhhh!?

 

[Pink Ranger]

The crew in that room already knew about the alien baby. They are on Weyland's payroll. Remember...they were hand picked. They were to bring the embryo back to Earth by putting her in stasis.

Another eureka moment I literally just had: they didn't care too much about the embryo, or the facehugger. Just the result. Just the data.

They had an entire cave full of the black slime. David's main goal was to test it on people, and that's what he did. A single specimen is of little importance when he knew they could easily replicate the same process again and again, with what was practically a lifetime supply of the black stuff. Hell, the one vase David had could probably destroy a medium-sized city in a week.

This makes Weyland an ever more cold and calculating organization than I thought of them as before. Even the alien lifeform was of little interest to them, just as long as they could replicate the way it was produced. As I've stated earlier, the post-birth scene was one of the most chilling and effective parts of the movie for me, and this revelation makes it even better.

 

[Spider-Who?]

My eyes glazed over just at the sight of it, and I write movie reviews.

If you write reviews, you should read it. Very nice analysis.

 

[chaseter]

Lol what did you address, exactly?

David makes it clear that he wants to put Shaw in stasis, even to go as far as getting two other crew members to try to subdue her. When she breaks out and does the C-section, it's not even mentioned again by anyone. So, what did those other scientists do after she punched them out? They just got up and went "Oh well!" and went on with their lives?

It was clearly a plot device to set up the end of the film, and the script has many of those: shallow and stupid events that serve no purpose other than to drive the action forward or provide another set piece.

What else were they going to do? Kill her? She hit them with a piece of equipment and ran to the pod to do a 2 minute removal. It's obvious those two that were going to stasis her knew blank was on board. They didn't want to remove the creature, they wanted to put her in stasis and take her back. Just like in Aliens and when Ripley is pregnant...they want viable embryos. David likely infected Shaw's lover at blank's command. Because David knew the black goo creates life and the reason blank went on this trip was to extend his life. Then when they see it destroys life, blank tells David that he wants to meet his maker for the sole purpose of wanting his life extended. It's also why blank was so casual and impressed that Shaw overcame her condition and joined them. If they wanted Shaw dead then she would be dead. She was merely a little experiment.

 

[DACrowe]

How many times to people just outright say something to the e
effect of "I'm looking for the big questions!"

Followed by several individuals asking Shaw "Have you lost your faith yet?"


Imagine if Deckard walked around for the entirety of Blade Runner just repeating " What does it mean to be human?" to everyone he came across.

I'm pretty sure the Sean Young character, Roy Batty and the crazy guy that Sean Young killed all talked to Deckard about that.

I agree Prometheus has problems, but I think those who were disappointed with it are trying to pick everything apart out of said disappointment.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Because she friggin sterilized it. Who cares about a dead alien in containment? She then shows up to go with them...do you think they thought she let it loose to infect the entire ship? They knew she dealt with it and they all thought it was dead.

TOMG what did they do with the exploded engineer head!? It didn't show them properly disposing of it. Where did it go ahhhhh!?

What else were they going to do? Kill her? She hit them with a piece of equipment and ran to the pod to do a 2 minute removal. It's obvious those two that were going to stasis her knew blank was on board. They didn't want to remove the creature, they wanted to put her in stasis and take her back. Just like in Aliens and when Ripley is pregnant...they want viable embryos. David likely infected Shaw's lover at blank's command. Because David knew the black goo creates life and the reason blank went on this trip was to extend his life. Then when they see it destroys life, blank tells David that he wants to meet his maker for the sole purpose of wanting his life extended. It's also why blank was so casual and impressed that Shaw overcame her condition and joined them. If they wanted Shaw dead then she would be dead. She was merely a little experiment.

Your rationales sound like a boatload of speculation to me. You can say "Oh they didn't care because it was sterilized!" all you want but that's not present in the film whatsoever, which makes it sloppy and stupid.

The fact that Shaw manages to sprint around with a bunch of fresh staples in her stomach isn't something that bothers me: I can suspend disbelief. Also, I never said that David, etc. wanted her dead, so their lack of hostility when she shows up doesn't bother me, either. But, they clearly had an interest in the alien baby. Yet, once she's rid of it, nobody cares. Nobody examines the room, nobody goes to check if its dead...nothing. They don't even ask her WTF happened to it or even to Shaw herself. They just move on.

It's a plot device, man. Plain and simple. And a bad one, too.

 

[DACrowe]

Oh boy the Prometheus fans have moved into the anybody who didn't like the movie's the crappy script and poor characterzation is a dumbass who didn't understand it.

Oh what a joyful time this is going to be...

The real question is why was ever excited for a Ridley Scott movie in the first place?

I understand the criticisms of Scott's films--brilliant visuals, (usually) strong acting/characterization, weak scripting, pacing and/or storytelling--and I respect that opinion. I disagree with it and find his style when he hits it, works really damn well (Alien, Blade Runner, Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven: DC, Black Hawk Down, Thelma & Louise, The Duelists, etc.).

....But if you really dislike that style and disliked most of the movies I just listed, did you really think you were going to like Prometheus? I do think it has scripting problems--more for awkward pacing in the middle and too many pointless "red shirt" characters than any odd complaint about "not enough answers"--however, I really enjoyed the movie for what it was. But for example I tend to dislike Michael Bay movies, so I don't see them, because most likely I'm just going to come feeling like I wasted money and wanting to trash the movie. Same with, say, fanboy favorite James Cameron.

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying if you dislike Scott, why would you see this movie?

That many things that happen and subplots in the film serve absolutely no purpose, the characters have no reaction to what should be major developments.

I don't care that we don't find out what reanimates the mohawked geologist (or even how his face is still in tact post acid/melting glass, although thats pretty random as well) but rather that the he come back, crab walking and super strong serves no purpose to the film other than to provide a short fight scene which no one ever comments upon again. If it had never happened the rest of the film would be unaffected. It is extraneous. A non sequitur.

I've said before that bringing back the geologist is stupid. That is one of my complaints about awkward pacing and pointless red shirts. He should have died from the acid (his face wasn't melted because Scott/Fox had the crazy idea a movie with a self-performed alien-baby abortion could be PG-13.

Anyway, seeing it a second time last night, I got that this is supposed to be when it clicks for the Captain character (Janek) that what's in those vials is some type of WMD and afterwards he finds Shaw and tells her about his realization and how he thinks they should just blow this taco stand. However, it was awkwardly done and paced, I'd agree. I still think Holloway shouldn't have been killed outside the ship, let in and slowly transform into a monster who tries to kill everyone and they put down. Then some conversation between Janek and Vickers about what it could mean while David is waking up Weyland after Shaw escapes her "child" would have put it together more.

Or how about the fact that no one really seems to give a damn about the fact that one of the leaders of the expedition gives birth to a tentacled alien baby? You think that would be brought up beyond David making a pun about it.

The only people who'd care about it are David, random Scottish doctor lady, and Shaw. That was all put on hold when Weyland woke up and David revealed that he'd found a living engineer. That became the interest and I believe the turnaround between Shaw stumbling in on Weyland and their meeting the engineer was about half an hour. Though I agree a scene of David finding it dead and just shrugging (or better yet, still alive and smiling as he leaves it alone) would have been better.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I agree Prometheus has problems, but I think those who were disappointed with it are trying to pick everything apart out of said disappointment.

I think it's more that those who were disappointed have to explain their disappointment over and over again to anyone who lumps them into the category of "herp derp u didn't get it!!1" which seems to be happening a lot.

When one breaks down complaints on a script level, it can tend to look nitpicky. t:

 

[chaseter]

Your rationales sound like a boatload of speculation to me. You can say "Oh they didn't care because it was sterilized!" all you want but that's not present in the film whatsoever, which makes it sloppy and stupid.

Do you need a director to explain everything to you? It is speculation. Most of this movie isn't straightforward. The movie starts by not being straightforward. Did you need a subtitle when the Alien died from the black goo to say EARTH - 4 billion years ago? It's speculation that it was Earth because it's not stated in the movie. I mean really....

The fact that Shaw manages to sprint around with a bunch of fresh staples in her stomach isn't something that bothers me: I can suspend disbelief. Also, I never said that David, etc. wanted her dead, so their lack of hostility when she shows up doesn't bother me, either. But, they clearly had an interest in the alien baby. Yet, once she's rid of it, nobody cares. Nobody examines the room, nobody goes to check if its dead...nothing. They don't even ask her WTF happened to it or even to Shaw herself. They just move on.

She was wincing from the pain here and there and of course when your life is endanger adrenaline kicks in when she sprints out.

Why do they need to care about one dead embryo when the juice that caused it and a still living creator that knows how to wield it is on board? Blank wasn't even going to show his face until David found the engineer. They all then go to his room to prep him because they knew he was there. Why would they care about a dead and sterilized embryo? Did you want them to go in there and scream NOOOO or show them disposing of it? They sorta had bigger things on their plate than tossing out a dead squid at that moment.

It's a plot device, man. Plain and simple. And a bad one, too.

They didn't have to make her pregnant. It didn't serve the plot. It's an exposition scene that at best, could have used one line from one character acknowledging what happened to somehow make the film better for you.

 

[DACrowe]

Hm.

Anyway, those who are looking for answers on the bigger ideas, this blog post (though not very well written), really I think illuminates a lot of what Lindelof and Scott were going for and where the story may go from here:

SECRETS OF ENGINEERS' ORIGINS AND MOTIVES LIKELY REVEALED

Spoiler

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/7436

This was taken from a comment I saw on another site, and I did a little research and everything seems to check out! :

To give some historical/mythological background that may shed some light, Ridley stated the SJ culture was based on Persian Myths. This would be Sumerian/Akkadian/Hindu. This is all taken from the Atra Hasis.

Creators - "G"ods- Annunaki - Dragon Humanoids (Naga, Dragon Kings,)

Helpers - "g"ods - Igigi - Engineers. (Android like living beings....BIOmechanical humanoid. Key features- Pale skin and large black eyes. Also known as watchers, Grigori, and Archons) (in many summerian texts they are actually referred to as "Pilots". Pretty much the Annunaki Air Force.)

When the Annunaki began terraforming the earth, they had the Igigi do the work for them. After a few thousand years the Igigi revolted and went on strike. The Annunaki then decided to create humans to do the work for them.

They sacrificed one of the rebel Igigi named Geshtu to use his blood and dna to make human beings, by mixing it with elements native to the earth.

(In the movie, this can be explained by the the different oval spaceship at the beginning representing the spaceship of the Annunaki)

(It can also be explained by the concept art that leaked from the official book this week)

(According to wikipedia it also says this about the Igigi: "Though sometimes synonymous with the term "Annunaki," in one myth the Igigi were the younger gods who were servants of the Annunaki, until they rebelled and were replaced by the creation of humans." This is reflectled exactly in the concept art below!)

Even though the humans were created and did the work, 1/3 of the Igigi still werent satisfied and sought revenge for Geshtu, so they rebelled again against the Annunaki Lords and began breeding/mixing with the human females creating Nephelim. This is what sparked the Prime Lord Enlil to flood the earth. Some humans were saved by Enki, the Lord responsible for the sacrifice of Geshtu and the creation of humans. Enlil and the rest of the annunaki decide to return home and let the humans develop on their own. Enki and his family stay behind. The Igigi are forced to leave earth as well. The remaining rebel Igigi are imprisoned on a planet on the way back to the homeworld and it is said as punishment and as a mark they are altered into a demonic appearance, no longer retaining the Angelic appearance.

Enki and his crew are probably the ones leaving the maps for humans to find, along with the ones helping humans advance throughout time.

The sacrfice engineer is Geshtu

The lone engineer is most likely Marduk or a servant/worshipper of Marduk.

The xeno is Mushussu, a creature Marduk fashioned and used as his pet.

The "Engineers" we see are trying to destroy Earth are of the Igigi rebels who view earth as their own. They have always despised humans because the Annunaki saw us as more in their likeness than them. IT's possible that the Igigi have long since destroyed or taken over the annunaki and the homeworld, and Earth was like going to claim the prize or spoils.

They mustve used to the Xeno's to win this war and through its perfection it has began to destroy and infect the Igigi who manufacture and transport it, creating more Mushussu.

the xeno in Alien is most likely an older pilot igigi birthed Mushussu egg crossed with human or a future Annunaki birthed one which would explain the size difference in hosts.

It is mentioned in several lesser stories that Marduk created the Mushussu out of using the essence of the Gods' (Annunaki) he killed as a symbol of his conquering and being able to control them... ie the mural.

The only thing i disagree with is I think the xenomorphs (and all the potential stuff that came from that black gooey stuff) is what the engineers/"Igilis" were going to flood the world with and hence what the Annuaki or "gods" punished them with in a "prison." The planet in Prometheus is that prison, even though it perhaps was not before the two aliens turned on each other. The storyboards/concept art of the original opening really confirms this. At least it does for me.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Do you need a director to explain everything to you? It is speculation. Most of this movie isn't straightforward. The movie starts by not being straightforward. Did you need a subtitle when the Alien died from the black goo to say EARTH - 4 billion years ago? It's speculation that it was Earth because it's not stated in the movie. I mean really....


She was wincing from the pain here and there and of course when your life is endanger adrenaline kicks in when she sprints out.

Why do they need to care about one dead embryo when the juice that caused it and a still living creator that knows how to wield it is on board? Blank wasn't even going to show his face until David found the engineer. They all then go to his room to prep him because they knew he was there. Why would they care about a dead and sterilized embryo? Did you want them to go in there and scream NOOOO or show them disposing of it? They sorta had bigger things on their plate than tossing out a dead squid at that moment.


They didn't have to make her pregnant. It didn't serve the plot. It's an exposition scene that at best, could have used one line from one character acknowledging what happened to somehow make the film better for you.

Dude, it's one thing to have speculation about themes and stuff: I'm not saying the director/writers should've held our hand through the entire movie. I enjoyed the opening and thought that kind of scene is the "right" kind of speculation.

It's another thing entirely to speculate about characters actions/non-actions based on things that didn't even happen on screen. You can't sit here and say "Well they had other things on their minds!" because that's just lazy writing. When a character has a goal--like David freezing the embryo--and then completely abandons that goal with no acknowledgement whatsoever, it's lazy writing. There's no scene showing that David or any of the crew is even aware that the alien embryo was removed or sterilized or whatever...they just carry on with their lives and nobody even asks any questions. It's l-a-z-y.

And yes, it was a plot device. The whole purpose of the alien embryo was so that Shaw could release it in the final battle against the Jockey. That's literally what a plot device does: it serves no purpose but to advance the plot at some key point. In this case, it would've also served to lead into Alien, but evidently that's all up in the air as well.

How "deep!"

 

[Asr]

Saw the movie yesterday and thought it was overall pretty good, 8/10 for me.

Side story: there was a really annoying guy in my theater a few seats over who laughed at almost every single dramatic scene. And I don't mean just chuckling-to-self kind of laughing, I mean this guy was laughing out loud like the movie was a comedy and it was the funniest thing ever. During the scene when

Spoiler

the Space Jockey ripped off David's head inside the alien ship

, he laughed so hard he flailed his arms and stomped his feet. It was so weird that I wanted to ask him what was so funny, and probably would've, if I hadn't been into the movie so much. Didn't want to interrupt my own viewing of the movie. /end side story

I thought the movie worked as a great setup to Alien personally - I liked how many ties were set up to it in terms of the plot, scenery, and finally the

Spoiler

xenomorph

at the end. But while Prometheus answered some questions back from Alien, it also raised so many more questions. Some of the things it left me asking or wondering: (not that anyone needs to try to answer these though)

Spoiler

1. Was I the only one disappointed that the Space Jockeys were human-like, and not actually elephant-like? The reveal of the "mask" was a total let-down!
2. Did the Space Jockeys create the alien goo, or harvest it from somewhere?
3. What happens to the ship piloted by Shaw & David? Where do they go? Need sequel now!
4. So where did the Space Jockey ship on LV-426 come from, and why was it carrying tons of xenomorph eggs?
5. Was the proto-xenomorph at the end of the movie the first of its kind? If so, how do the xenomorphs evolve to the stage that we see in Alien? (In terms of the story, as they'd obviously need a human host, but no humans are left alive on LV-223 at the end.)
6. How did mohawk guy evolve into a crab-walking super-strong deformation?
7. Why is it the proto-morphs always go for the mouth?
8. How did the proto-morph baby grow to full-size in an enclosed (presumably vacuum-sealed) room without a food source?
9. Did Idris Elba remind anyone else of the drill sergeant from Aliens?
10. Was Charlize's character really a robot?
11. Could Charlize have been any hotter in her skin-tight space unitard?
12. Was anyone else pissed at the way Charlize's character was killed? For me it was totally anti-climactic.
13. Could the Fass have been any creepier in his role?
14. Could the Fass have touched any more alien objects? That animated gif reminded me of how touchy-feely he was.
15. Could the ending slow-mo scene showing the xenomorph have been any more self-indulgent? At first I thought it was going to be a dark, quick clip but then it kept going which fed my Alien nerdgasm....

As for non-spoilery stuff, what really impressed me about the movie were the visuals. The opening landscape scenery, I assume filmed in Iceland, was immediately jaw-dropping. Holy crap that was awesome, especially on an IMAX screen. It made me want to visit Iceland!

The landscape scenes weren't the only awesome part though - this movie also had some insanely good CGI. And more than that, the Prometheus ship itself had really well-done set design that totally reminded me of both the space truck from Alien and the colony base in Aliens. It totally immersed me back into the Alien movie-world and made me forget I was watching a movie. The scene showing the crew eating breakfast totally reminded me of the chestburster scene in Alien, mostly because of the parallels with the table design and the fact that the crew was eating. The futuristic technology depicted was also really cool with a hint of retro design.

The only technical thing that bothered me about the movie was the musical score. There were times where it took me out of the movie, as it didn't really fit the tone. It made me miss Alien's minimalistic score, which IMO needed to be used here again.

I thought the ending alien-alien "fight" was pretty damn awesome and gruesomely sick in a good way. It was intense, visceral, and bad-ass.

Ridley Scott still knows how to make a scary, intense, & creepy movie, I have to give him that. Probably the single most intense part for me was Shaw giving herself the C-section. I wanted to look away but couldn't. I can't imagine the effect that scene would have on female viewers.

Overall I think Alien might be the better-crafted film with tighter direction, but Prometheus was pretty good too. I might have to go see it again.

 

[dark_b]

disappointed

 

[jmc]

I love the nitpicking in here and people who once again needed the movie to hold their hand because they obviously had their brains turned off while watching.

There's a difference between hold your and bad story telling.

 

[Liam_H]

Now playing podast came up with a very interesting idea

Spoiler

David tells the engineer he (David) isn't human and was created by man, the engineer in a rage that man has attempted to play God (by creating artificial life) rips off David's head to confirm what the android says is true and when it is confirmed the engineer then flies in a rage and attacks the humans.

Awesome, I'm a listener/donor also.

 

[Eggyman]

disappointed

Ahh bless ya, wondered where you'd been and was waiting for your opinion. Not good then, I take it?

 

[dark_b]

Ahh bless ya, wondered where you'd been and was waiting for your opinion. Not good then, I take it?

not angry. and its not a bad movie. i guess i made a mistake expecting a perfect masterpiece.

i hate with a passion the lost finale. i think Lindelof is the reason why i am so sad right now.