S_H_F_4839
Hulk Smash
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then why have hell at all?
I don't know, not going to pretend I know. But I would suspect god made it for atheists, Just Kidding.
then why have hell at all?
Because in His holiness and purity, God cannot allow a flawed, fallen race to enter a glorious Paradise. We must be redeemed first, through the blood of Christ, by faith.
mf2k4's God said:"I need more blood! more perfect man blood!!!"![]()
I don't know, not going to pretend I know. But I would suspect god made it for atheists, Just Kidding.
or the prideful![]()
Actually, humanity did when Adam & Eve freely chose to give in to temptation, rather than resisting it.Mr Sparkle said:God created the flaw.
OK, if you honestly believe you've done nothing worthy of punishment by God's rules, compare yourself to the Ten Commandments. Everyone's broken them.I did nothing, and your god is going to punish me for something that someone did thousands of years ago?
Actually, what I stated was that the punishments and the need for blood sacrifices were done away with; the Ten Commandments still apply.Superhobo said:Ya know, Moviefan, despite the fact that your arguments draw me into a whole range of reactions that I'm pretty sure aren't healthy in large amounts, I've got an idea for a discussion. It's a pretty "hot button" issue, but one you've talked about before, actually.
Okay, you've said your stance on gay marriage once or twice, and you think its wrong (now, I'm not challenging anyone else, this is just to moviefan), and a sin. Your proof for this is Sodom and Gomorrah, and also some of the Epistles of Paul. Now, as we've all noticed, the Bible has a particular affinity for irrational rules and punishments in the Old Testament (as well as the rest of the book, but that's neither here nor there). All sorts of things besides the stuff we've mentioned was religiously banned; for example, you couldn't eat shellfish, or pork, and we all know about the 'blood of infants' thing. And, fantastic and cruel punishments were thus put forth for doing such things (or not, as in the case of the blood of the infants thing). Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but does not Sodom and Gomorrah take place in the Old? And, hasn't one of your "stupendous" arguments been that all those outrageous 'sins' and rules were banished with Christ's sacrifice? The Epistles of Paul I'm not sure of, but I'm sure someone else can handle that.
Actually, what I stated was that the punishments and the need for blood sacrifices were done away with; the Ten Commandments still apply.
Actually, humanity did when Adam & Eve freely chose to give in to temptation, rather than resisting it.
OK, if you honestly believe you've done nothing worthy of punishment by God's rules, compare yourself to the Ten Commandments. Everyone's broken them.
- Don't have any other gods before God: Have you ever thought anything about God that was different from His descriptions in the Bible? If so, that's one guilty count...and everyone's thought that way at some point, including me.
- Do not make for yourself any idolatrous image: this includes making anything in your life more important to you than God.
- Do not take the Lord's name in vain: If you've ever combined God's name with a swear word, then that violates the Third Commandment.
- Observe the Sabbath day and keep it holy: Ever worked on a Saturday, or done anything but reserve that day for relaxation and reflection on God?
- Honor your father and mother: If you've evr been unjustly agry (by God's standard, not yours) with either of your parents, or treated them with any kind of disrespect, then there goes that one.
- Do not commit murder: Most of us think we're clear on that one, but Jesus furthered it, saying "Whoever hates his brethren is a murderer."
- Do not commit adultery: This includes both fornication and extramirital affairs. Jesus furthered this one as well, saying "Whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." I know I'm guilty of all these thus far.
- Do not steal: If you've ever taken anything that wasn't yours without permission (even if you returned it later), that's considered theft in God's eyes.
- Do not testify falsely against your neighbor: Also known as "do not lie", and if you say you haven't, then that's your first one right there.
- Do not covet your neighbor's house, wife, servant, cattle, or anything else that belongs to them: If you've ever wanted anything anyone else has to the point you were jealous of them, then that's Number Ten.
If you are brutally honest with yourself, then you'll relaize every human on the planet has broken these in spirit, if not in letter. Thus, we are all guilty, deserving of eternal punishment...but Christ died so we wouldn't have to go through that. All we do is accept and follow Him; that's it.
the Pauline Epistles took place in the New Testament. As for the gay-marriage thing, yes it is immoral and sinful. That is one of the reasons why the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. the people there were completely unrepentant and evil. God told Lot than if he found even ten people in the whole town, then he'd spare them all...but no one was found except Lot and his few family members. So, God went through with His promise, decimating the city and its people. And, my clarification post does make sense: in the New Covenant, the Commandments still apply, but the need to make a blood sacrifice or abstain from certain foods is no longer required. Those were signs of repentance, but now all that's needed is to put aside selfishness, pride, and disbelief, accepting the fact that you need a Savior, and that Jesus is it.
OH
MY
GOD!!!!
I want to understand the other side atheism and its beliefs.
I'm not an atheist , so you're looking at the wrong person.![]()
I would say could've fooled me, but you already did, because I was under the impression you were.
oh crap stormy precious is in the forum.
this thread about to get a heavy dose of insane/scary/fundamentalist/*****ebaggery.
agnosticism FTW!!!![]()
when God created humanity, He made them perfect. He gave them the free will to abandon that perfection, because He knew that otherwise, their love wouldn't be from the heart, and thus worthless to Him.
They were faced with temptation from Satan,
and chose of their own free will to follow it rather than God. Because of this, they were rendered imperfect, and as punishment, a curse was placed on their descendants (us),
and humanity was expelled from Paradise. That curse gives us an inbred desire to follow sin, whereas before the Fall, humans were tempted, and yet didn't have the automatic desire to listen to those lies.
Jesus was born not of man's doing, but by the spirit of God, and therefore was not subject to the aforementioned curse. He was tempted in all ways, as we are, but chose of His own will to follow God's path above His own. He never broke any of the Commandments, or did anything wrong whatsoever. That is simply unfathomable by the intellect of a fallen race, but it's true.
Because Christ had committed no sin, then when he was crucified, the full punishment for all sin was supernaturally placed onto Him.
He even cried out, "My God, my God! Why have you forsaken me?" He knew God was still there, but this cry was one of despair, itself a punishment for sin.
This completely selfless and loving event totally revamped the Covenant. God now says, "He who believes in the Son is not condemned, but He who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."
The only way we escape eternal torment is by trusting God over ourselves, and placing genuine faith in Jesus for salvation. We can choose eternity with God, or without God, and either way, He will give us the fate determined by that choice.
It sounds more like free will was the imperfection, and God's just passing the buck.OK, Sparkle; I'm gonna try my best to make this crystal-clear for you. In the beginning, when God created humanity, He made them perfect. He gave them the free will to abandon that perfection, because He knew that otherwise, their love wouldn't be from the heart, and thus worthless to Him. They were faced with temptation from Satan, and chose of their own free will to follow it rather than God. Because of this, they were rendered imperfect, and as punishment, a curse was placed on their descendants (us), and humanity was expelled from Paradise.
That curse gives us an inbred desire to follow sin, whereas before the Fall, humans were tempted, and yet didn't have the automatic desire to listen to those lies. Jesus was born not of man's doing, but by the spirit of God, and therefore was not subject to the aforementioned curse. He was tempted in all ways, as we are, but chose of His own will to follow God's path above His own. He never broke any of the Commandments, or did anything wrong whatsoever. That is simply unfathomable by the intellect of a fallen race, but it's true. Because Christ had committed no sin, then when he was crucified, the full punishment for all sin was supernaturally placed onto Him. He even cried out, "My God, my God! Why have you forsaken me?" He knew God was still there, but this cry was one of despair, itself a punishment for sin. This completely selfless and loving event totally revamped the Covenant. God now says, "He who believes in the Son is not condemned, but He who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God." The only way we escape eternal torment is by trusting God over ourselves, and placing genuine faith in Jesus for salvation. We can choose eternity with God, or without God, and either way, He will give us the fate determined by that choice.