World Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

[LizardMan07]

<snip>

DAMMNNN, go you!

Good write up, awesome discussion starter!

This is what I like to see! Thanks so much for this! In stark contrast to some others posts, really enjoyed skimming it, will now read in more detail

 

[The Joker]

You cannot justify the workings of a movie by pointing to how the film did. That's lazy.

Well you can if you're not just judging it solely on box office, because that's a bogus false way to judge anything. You're looking at critical response, and general fan response, too. There's no denying that TASM 2 comes out the worst overall in that regard.

The whys are obvious. It's not because of CBM fatigue with audiences because every other comic book movie this year from Cap 2, to DOFP, to GOTG did well critically and financially, and had fans and audiences drooling over them. It's been one of the best years for comic book movies, in spite of TASM 2.

So that just leaves the obvious; it was a poor movie. You can get into the specifics of why if you like, but we've all done that a thousand and one times before. Awful Spider-Man and Peter Parker characterization, terrible villains, woeful campy tones clashing with serious tones giving it a horrid inconsistent tone, messy plot etc.

The weak response the movie got is just a reflection of that. It's sad as a Spider-Man fan to say a Spider-Man movie deserves a bad reception. But you have to call a spade a spade.

 

[Erzengel]

If TASM 2 as released made $1b world wide, fans would have more ammunition to say it's as successful as the days of Raimi.

If TASM2 as released was rated like 90%+ on RT and it made what it did, you could possibly argue franchise fatigue.

$200 domestic release and 53% RT rating, the easiest solution is the quality.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Agreed. It speaks about the quality and the quality is bad.

 

[Oscorp]

I agree with spiderral that Spider-Man 2 is an overrated film. SM1 is the best of the bunch. I'm still waiting for THE Spider-Man film though.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

I already have my definitive Spider-Man movie and it's called Spider-Man 2. Any shortcomings it has are minor compared to how brilliant it is. Spider-Man 1 is second best. Then Spider-Man 3 in third place.

If you are waiting for the Spider-Man film you're going to be waiting a long time with the current group of people making them. Maybe 10 years at least.

 

[Oscorp]

I already have my definitive Spider-Man movie and it's called Spider-Man 2. Any shortcomings it has are minor compared to how brilliant it is. Spider-Man 1 is second best. Then Spider-Man 3 in third place.

If you are waiting for the Spider-Man film you're going to be waiting a long time with the current group of people making them. Maybe 10 years at least.

I'm fully aware of that. I'm not fully satisfied with neither Raimi nor Webb.

 

[The Joker]

Raimi has not ticked every box for me, but he's ticked most of them. Most of the important ones, and at the same time delivered one of the best comic book movies ever (Spider-Man 2), and two more very enjoyable ones.

Webb on the other hand has only ticked two boxes for me; a decent Gwen, and a great Spidey costume in the second movie. Everything else he's fallen short on. His movies have zero re-watch value for me.

There is a definitive Spidey movie to be made, but I don't see it coming in the foreseeable future. But I'm ok with that. I've got the Raimi trilogy which is satisfactory.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm fully aware of that. I'm not fully satisfied with neither Raimi nor Webb.

Neither am I.

I wonder how many Spider-man fans are in the same boat?

 

[Oscorp]

Raimi has not ticked every box for me, but he's ticked most of them. Most of the important ones, and at the same time delivered one of the best comic book movies ever (Spider-Man 2), and two more very enjoyable ones.

Webb on the other hand has only ticked two boxes for me; a decent Gwen, and a great Spidey costume in the second movie. Everything else he's fallen short on. His movies have zero re-watch value for me.

There is a definitive Spidey movie to be made, but I don't see it coming in the foreseeable future. But I'm ok with that. I've got the Raimi trilogy which is satisfactory.

Raimi definitely ticks more boxes than Webb for me. You can easily tell that Raimi is the better director and storyteller. I think both however have major flaws, Webb's easier to point out than Raimi's. I can't watch any of the Spider-Man films and feel "That's my Spider-Man!". Especially the character of Peter Parker/Spider-Man himself lacks in both franchises, but in different ways.

 

[spiderral]

DAMMNNN, go you!

Good write up, awesome discussion starter!

This is what I like to see! Thanks so much for this! In stark contrast to some others posts, really enjoyed skimming it, will now read in more detail

Thanks man!

 

[spiderral]

I agree with spiderral that Spider-Man 2 is an overrated film. SM1 is the best of the bunch. I'm still waiting for THE Spider-Man film though.

I think a lot of people are.

 

[Oscorp]

In all of these films there are just too many major characters I can't fully like.

In Raimi's films it's Peter Parker/Spider-Man, Mary Jane, Doc Ock, Venom, Sandman, Harry in SM3.

In Webb's films it's Peter Parker, Lizard, Capt. Stacy, Electro, Harry, Norman, Rhino.

That's a huge amount compared to Marvel Studios' films or Nolan's trilogy.

I think the problem for me with these characters is that they're either too unfaithful to the comics in a bad way, or too over the top and cheesy.

 

[Spiderdevil]

Of course you can. Because you're not just judging it solely on box office. Well I'm not because that's a bogus false way to judge anything. You're looking at critical response, and general fan response, too. There's no denying that TASM 2 comes out the worst overall in that regard.

The whys are obvious. It's not because of CBM fatigue with audiences because every other comic book movie this year from Cap 2, to DOFP, to GOTG did well critically and financially, and had fans and audiences drooling over them. It's been one of the best years for comic book movies, in spite of TASM 2.

So that just leaves the obvious; it was a poor movie. You can get into the specifics of why if you like, but we've all done that a thousand and one times before. Awful Spider-Man and Peter Parker characterization, terrible villains, woeful campy tones clashing with serious tones giving it a horrid inconsistent tone, messy plot etc.

The weak response the movie got is just a reflection of that. It's sad as a Spider-Man fan to say a Spider-Man movie deserves a bad reception. But you have to call a spade a spade.

+1 to everything

This franchise is a mess,they can't come out of it now
And God forbid if they make those Sinister Six,Black Cat movies.They will never be able to make another Spider-man film ever,they will go into so much loss
After so much advertisement(Super bowl clip,times square clip and what not) this movie crawled to 200M and got beaten on the second weekend by an R rated comedy(While Guardians is now on top for 4 consecutive weekends)

All this fatigue thingy is just ********.The other CBMs performed so well(1st,2nd and 6th domestically) despite one of them being a completely unknown property and other two never managing more than 500M in their previous movies(This isn't Batman,Superman or Iron Man we are talking about)

Sony is never gonna make another penny out of Spider-man,they will just run this character into the ground even more than they already have.
They should sell him while Disney still considers him worthy to pay for,they might be lucky to get 500M out of that deal.Sony should do that and end it with dignity,3/5 is still a very good record

Rant over!

 

[W/ Great Power]

In all of these films there are just too many major characters I can't fully like.

In Raimi's films it's Peter Parker/Spider-Man, Mary Jane, Doc Ock, Venom, Sandman, Harry in SM3.

In Webb's films it's Peter Parker, Lizard, Capt. Stacy, Electro, Harry, Norman, Rhino.

That's a huge amount compared to Marvel Studios' films or Nolan's trilogy.

I think the problem for me with these characters is that they're either too unfaithful to the comics in a bad way, or too over the top and cheesy.

In regards to Webb's series, I despised Captain Stacy until he tells Peter, "This city needs you."

He gave Peter a rough time, but he was ultimately doing his job and nobody really knew much about Spider-Man at the time.

But at the end of the day, he lets Peter go when he's revealed to be Spider-Man, and he's being a good dad by telling him to leave Gwen alone. He foresaw danger for Gwen, but he wanted still wanted Peter to be Spider-Man.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Gwen wasn't in any more danger than her father being the Captain of Police of New York. They both go after criminals, the only difference is everyone knows who Captain Stacy is, where he lives, and who is loved ones are. Actually Gwen was at less risk with Peter than she was with her father being a Cop.

 

[Radu Molasar]

Raimi Spider-Man films: 9/10

Webb Spider-Man films: 3/10

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I agree with spiderral that Spider-Man 2 is an overrated film. SM1 is the best of the bunch. I'm still waiting for THE Spider-Man film though.

Ditto.

I'm not fully satisfied with neither Raimi nor Webb.

Once again, ditto. I can find enjoyment out of most of the movies but there's a level of satisfaction that none of the movies have fulfilled. I'm not sure we'll see it anytime soon either, unfortunately.

I wonder how many Spider-man fans are in the same boat?

Hey. Over here. Pass me an oar, I'll help paddle.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Ditto.



Once again, ditto. I can find enjoyment out of most of the movies but there's a level of satisfaction that none of the movies have fulfilled. I'm not sure we'll see it anytime soon either, unfortunately.



Hey. Over here. Pass me an oar, I'll help paddle.

Is there something you see missing in all of the films?

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Is there something you see missing in all of the films?

Yes.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Yes.

What, exactly?

 

[UltimateWebhead]

What, exactly?

To quickly summarize:

Raimi has the solid story telling and strong filmmaking elements present yet imo he didn't do a good job with the characters. Spidey in particular feels so wooden and stiff. It's not as if there's a separate character or duality if you will, rather it's just Peter wearing a suit.

Webb is almost a complete opposite. He brings us a better Spider-Man, much closer to the one I know from comics and tv shows. The relationship between Peter and Gwen is also a high point. But, his skills as a storyteller and director are severely lacking. The choppy editing, bad pacing, and aimless direction about the films give them little rewatch value.

It'd be great if we could somehow combine the best elements of each franchise.

 

[sl500jazz]

I agree with spiderral that Spider-Man 2 is an overrated film. SM1 is the best of the bunch. I'm still waiting for THE Spider-Man film though.

I'm fully aware of that. I'm not fully satisfied with neither Raimi nor Webb.

Neither am I.

I wonder how many Spider-man fans are in the same boat?

Once again, ditto. I can find enjoyment out of most of the movies but there's a level of satisfaction that none of the movies have fulfilled. I'm not sure we'll see it anytime soon either, unfortunately.

Same here.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

To quickly summarize:

Raimi has the solid story telling and strong filmmaking elements present yet imo he didn't do a good job with the characters. Spidey in particular feels so wooden and stiff. It's not as if there's a separate character or duality if you will, rather it's just Peter wearing a suit.

Webb is almost a complete opposite. He brings us a better Spider-Man, much closer to the one I know from comics and tv shows. The relationship between Peter and Gwen is also a high point. But, his skills as a storyteller and director are severely lacking. The choppy editing, bad pacing, and aimless direction about the films give them little rewatch value.

It'd be great if we could somehow combine the best elements of each franchise.

Just trying to get the opinion of someone that wasn't completely devoted to one franchise. I agree that I would like the best of both worlds.

 

[spiderral]

To quickly summarize:

Raimi has the solid story telling and strong filmmaking elements present yet imo he didn't do a good job with the characters. Spidey in particular feels so wooden and stiff. It's not as if there's a separate character or duality if you will, rather it's just Peter wearing a suit.

Webb is almost a complete opposite. He brings us a better Spider-Man, much closer to the one I know from comics and tv shows. The relationship between Peter and Gwen is also a high point. But, his skills as a storyteller and director are severely lacking. The choppy editing, bad pacing, and aimless direction about the films give them little rewatch value.

It'd be great if we could somehow combine the best elements of each franchise.

I agree with most of this but the last part you mentioned: "The choppy editing, bad pacing, and aimless direction about the films give them little rewatch value." is probably just TASM2, TASM1 was a lot more solid and has more rewatch value.