World Raimi vs Webb Comparison Thread

It's funny how you didn't mentioned some of the worst lines ever in cbms like "Are you in or are you out?", terrible acting from Tobey/Dunst and that awful fight scene in burning building in Spider-Man 1.
Also,

Tobey wasn't worse then Andrew Shiaing in the first film mubbling and stumbling over his lines. And you wanna talk horrible lines? "Its my birthday. Time to light my candles" plus every line Paul's Rhino spoke and no fight scene is worse then Spidey vs Evil Ed. Terrible fight scene.
 
Here's my amalgamated version of Spider-Man 1:

1. Raimi's origin story
2. ASM2's Spidey suit
3. Emma Stone as MJ
4. Garfield's face and build
5. Maguire's hair
6. Garfield's humour
7. ASM2's non-helmet Goblin face (but not the green hair or slightly green shade of face)
8. Danny Elfman's score
9. ASM's web shooters
10. ASM2's computer graphics
11. ASM2's level of action scenes
12. Dafoe as the Goblin
13. Franco as Harry
14. SM1's cinematography
15. Raimi as director
 
Tobey wasn't worse then Andrew Shiaing in the first film mubbling and stumbling over his lines. And you wanna talk horrible lines? "Its my birthday. Time to light my candles" plus every line Paul's Rhino spoke and no fight scene is worse then Spidey vs Evil Ed. Terrible fight scene.
1) Oh yes, he was.
2) Lines in TASM2 were almost as terrible as SM1's. Almost. And I do think that TASM2 is a terrible movie.
3) ...Every Spidey vs Green Ranger fight is worse than that. Awful, awful fight scenes.
 
TASM2 wasn't almost as... It was terrible.

Were some lines cheesy? Yes but you watch a film knowing its old. Look at the first Superman films. Are they cheesy? Yea. Is the effects good? For its time. Is MOS better because its newer? No. SM1 fit well with its time. TASM2 is just terrible all around.

Some people think TASM films are better because they are newer. That's so cute.
 
Tobey wasn't worse then Andrew Shiaing in the first film mubbling and stumbling over his lines. And you wanna talk horrible lines? "Its my birthday. Time to light my candles" plus every line Paul's Rhino spoke and no fight scene is worse then Spidey vs Evil Ed. Terrible fight scene.

andrew is better than tobey mumbling maguire. the social awkwardness andrew gave out was just convincing seeing as how i met a couple of people like that even myself.
 
Here's my amalgamated version of Spider-Man 1:

1. Raimi's origin story
2. ASM2's Spidey suit
3. Emma Stone as MJ
4. Garfield's face and build
5. Maguire's hair
6. Garfield's humour
7. ASM2's non-helmet Goblin face (but not the green hair or slightly green shade of face)
8. Danny Elfman's score
9. ASM's web shooters
10. ASM2's computer graphics
11. ASM2's level of action scenes
12. Dafoe as the Goblin
13. Dehaan as Harry
14. SM1's cinematography
15. Raimi as director

*fixed*
 
It's funny how you didn't mentioned some of the worst lines ever in cbms like "Are you in or are you out?", terrible acting from Tobey/Dunst and that awful fight scene in burning building in Spider-Man 1.

I didn't mention it because I don't think "Are you in or are you out" is a terrible line, and I certainly don't think for a second that the acting of Tobey and Dunst is awful. Far from it.

So why would I mention something I don't believe is true?

Lol. I thought that even biggest Raimi fans would admit the obvious that Gwen is much better character than that thing in SM 1-3

Spider-Man 3 MJ yes she's definitely than her better by a long way. I'd never defend SM-3 MJ. But Spider-Man 1 and 2 no. MJ is a flawed character, like the comics. That adds spice and drama to her relationship with Peter. It makes her a more real three dimensional interesting character for me. I like Emma Stone's Gwen fine. She's the only consistently decent thing in those movies. But the character is too flawless. She's Miss Perfect. That to me makes her less interesting and real than MJ. Even comic book Gwen wasn't that sweet and syrupy and flawless. She was fiery gal, could be quick tempered, make rash judgements, lay blame against people who didn't deserve it etc. But she was still a good girl at heart, she just had her faults and that made her an interesting character who's relationship with Peter was interesting to read because of these flaws and dramatics. The only flaw of Gwen in TASM movies is her acting like an idiot and going into the Electro battle which ultimately got her killed.

The only worthwhile thing about the Peter and Gwen relationship in the movies is the chemistry between them. That's it. The relationship itself is too sweet and syrupy, bad enough to rot your teeth.

That's also not true.

1397180141938.jpg


And she's gone now, so that doesn't bode well for TASM3 and beyond.

Exactly.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Good job analyzing these films.

daaaayyuuummm

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Bravo, sir.

Bra. ****ing. Vo.


I don't think there is anything else left to say lol :up:

This is a fantastic write up! I agree with basically all of this :up:


Thanks everybody for the support. I am humbled and flattered :yay:

TASM2 wasn't almost as... It was terrible.

Were some lines cheesy? Yes but you watch a film knowing its old. Look at the first Superman films. Are they cheesy? Yea. Is the effects good? For its time. Is MOS better because its newer? No. SM1 fit well with its time. TASM2 is just terrible all around.

Some people think TASM films are better because they are newer. That's so cute.

Exactly :up:
 
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People like Gwen because she's played by Emma Stone, but her character is flat and underdeveloped. Just because she makes things easier for the hero doesn't make her a better character. MJ was more complex, she had arcs of her own(Gwen didn't) and while she did some questionable things they were part of her character progression. She's far better than Gwen.

Lol @ people who compare intentionally cheesy lines from Raimi's trilogy to serious dialogue in TASM. "those are the best kind" is just an awful line, not because it sounds terrible but because it makes Peter sound like a *****e.
 
The Amazing Spider-Man movies managed to mess up just about everything that makes Spider-Man such a great read. Peter Parker is obnoxious, arrogant, and never feels like he has that classic Peter Parker bad luck which makes Peter the underdog we all root for. He is more wrapped up in the legacy of his boring parents than he is in Uncle Ben, and that is a big bastardization of who Peter Parker is. His Spider-Man is painfully unfunny with 90% of the quips being annoying and cringe worthy(Yo yo yo the boys in blue are here, A god named sparkles, Just don't call me late for dinner etc....*puke*).

The villains are god awful. Between the Goomba Lizard, the painfully cheesy and pointless Electro, Butthead on meth Goblin, and "Rhino", Marc Webb and Co. cannot do a good villain to save their life. I hate, hate, HATE how they bastardized the Goblin storyline.

The deaths of both Stacys were also ruined. In the comics Peter was responsible for Captain Stacy's by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacy. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter.

With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

The Gwen and Peter relationship is far too syrupy and sweet. The only bit of drama that's added to it is that promise Peter makes and breaks within 5 minutes to Captain Stacy. The only thing that keeps any interest is the chemistry they have. The relationship itself is dull. And I again hate how cocky Peter is with her. Especially when he just casually revealed he was Spider-Man by webbing Gwen's ass and pulling her in to kiss her. Peter of the comics was far more reserved and cautious about revealing his identity to anyone. There's just no charm or likability to Garfield's Peter. He often acts like he's god's gift around Gwen.

Maguire's Peter is the classic true Peter Parker. He struggles with many personal problems. Keeping up with school work, paying bills, friendships etc all because of being Spider-Man. He is an interesting and likable Peter Parker because his life is a drama because of juggling both lives, and he is not an unpleasant jerk about it. Give me a Peter Parker who racks himself with guilt over his Uncle's death, who turns to his Uncle in his mind when he has to make tough decisions to quit. Who delivers genuine emotion when he confesses to Aunt May about his role in Ben's death. That's a real conflicted flawed person, not Garfield's Peter. He couldn't do scenes like this. He's not got the emotional depth or character for it. Maguire's Spider-Man is the personification of the true Spider-Man character. He didn't need to be shouting off quips every 30 seconds because that is not what defines who Spider-Man really is.

Every single one of Raimi's villains are well done, and in Venom's case even better than the comic book counterpart. The comic book Venom had the stupidest of reasons for hating Spider-Man. The movie actually improved Venom over the comic book version. In the comics Eddie Brock hates Spider-Man because Eddie published a news story about Sin Eater's identity that turned out to be false when Spidey caught the real Sin Eater. He got fired and his life went to crap, and he blames Spidey for that. All Spidey did was catch a serial killer. He didn't even know Eddie from Adam. They never met. Spidey was not an obstacle to Eddie writing a good honest news story.

In SM-3 Raimi made an actual connection between Peter and Eddie, and he gave him real reasons to hate him. Peter exposed Eddie's fraud, roughed him up and humiliated him, and dated the girl Eddie was infatuated with.

The Goblin story was superbly done. Norman and Harry Osborn were well developed three dimensional characters, and in Harry's case he had a proper friendship with Peter, and not some sloppy rushed 2 minute cheesy scene talking about mirrors and combs and skipping stones. Doc Ock was magnificent, and so true to the comics in so many ways, in spite of the redemption at the end; http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

The action scenes are magnificent, some of the finest of any comic book movie, and many people believe no CBM action sequence has topped the train fight of SM-2 and I agree.

MJ, aside from SM-3, was well done, and their relationship very well handled. There was proper depth there. MJ was not just a Miss perfect like TASM's Gwen. MJ was a real person with flaws and issues.

The supporting cast of Raimi's movies, especially Jonah and Aunt May, trump every supporting character in the TASM movies, who are all on the whole bland and forgettable, and in Captain Stacy's case nothing but a nagging jerk.

Raimi's movies have surpassed the TASM series in every conceivable area. The only true constant positive of the TASM movies is Stone's Gwen.

yeah, sorry joker but i laughed when you said that maguire was the perfect parker. his peter's personality was just dull as well as his performance

eddie was just all around annoying and wasn't done as well.

peter did feel bad about what happened to george and ben in TASM especially with making his aunt may worry.

bryce as gwen was just dumb, dull, and the portrayal was just awful.

also, some of spiderman's jokes in the comics are annoying even he thinks they aren't even funny. i also don't see what's wrong with a god named sparkles.

in the comics peter was also overly confident as you can read starting from the romita runs. he also seemed to care about his aunt, uncle, george, gwen, curt, and a few other people in the first m ovie and some parts in the second film


and like io said for a guy who wants to support this series you don't seem to want a director's cut of the two films and just want everyone else to agree with you even to the point of ignoring evidence.
 
anybody can do a much better job than maguire. tobey is just on par with drake bell it's just painful. and i meant performance wise. even his peter was just bad. peter in the comics was more and more of a person while maguire just acted like a nerd you see in the movies saying nerdy lines
 
^^ This.
On the topic of Peter kissing Gwen in front of everyone at graduation, I don't think it should be treated as such a bad thing; I enjoyed seeing a more confident, mature version of Peter in TASM2 and even if it does stray from the original characterisation of Peter Parker, I like that change as it feels more human and including moments like that, where the protagonist has moments of success and happiness, adds a lot more emotional weight when seeing a hero's downfall, in this case, Gwen's death.

let's not forget that in the comics peter is way past at being the hapless nerd people view him as espeically viewing him as a "kid" as peter evolved into a much more confident adult for the past 43 years
 
Maguire needed more development and to evolve, but let's not exagerate how nerdy he was, if he was as you say, then he would have been like pre-Electro from Amazing Spider-Man 2, people like that Peter Parker do exist, not every nerd has become the all cool Andrew Garfield. To be honest, i liked both actors on the role for different reasons, but if i had to say what the perfect one would be, it's something in between both performances, Peter starts like Maguire, and slowly evolves into Andrew.

that's the problem. peter in every adaptation and in every comic book universes is not like tobey even in post-spider bite he didn't act like this. peter is portrayed as a person with some intelligence. i don't care if there are nerds like tobey, peter is not like that at all and even before reading the comics his peter was never appealing.
 
People like Gwen because she's played by Emma Stone, but her character is flat and underdeveloped. Just because she makes things easier for the hero doesn't make her a better character. MJ was more complex, she had arcs of her own(Gwen didn't) and while she did some questionable things they were part of her character progression. She's far better than Gwen.

Lol @ people who compare intentionally cheesy lines from Raimi's trilogy to serious dialogue in TASM. "those are the best kind" is just an awful line, not because it sounds terrible but because it makes Peter sound like a *****e.

:up: :up:

yeah, sorry joker but i laughed when you said that maguire was the perfect parker. his peter's personality was just dull as well as his performance

eddie was just all around annoying and wasn't done as well.

peter did feel bad about what happened to george and ben in TASM especially with making his aunt may worry.

bryce as gwen was just dumb, dull, and the portrayal was just awful.

also, some of spiderman's jokes in the comics are annoying even he thinks they aren't even funny. i also don't see what's wrong with a god named sparkles.

in the comics peter was also overly confident as you can read starting from the romita runs. he also seemed to care about his aunt, uncle, george, gwen, curt, and a few other people in the first m ovie and some parts in the second film


and like io said for a guy who wants to support this series you don't seem to want a director's cut of the two films and just want everyone else to agree with you even to the point of ignoring evidence.

I see you just got put on probation, so you won't be able to reply to this for a while, but I'll respond anyway.

Yeah sorry Spider-knight but I laughed when you said Maguire's Peter personality was dull and so was his performance.

Eddie was all around awesome and was done very well. Better than the comics.

Peter is more obsessed with boring parents' legacy than he is about his Uncle Ben in the TASM movies. He is the antithesis of Peter Parker.

Bryce was sweet, beautiful, bubbly, and an excellent Gwen. I don't see what was so dumb about her.

Spider-Man jokes in the comics are only annoying to the bad guys or other fictional characters, not to the readers. When the fans are getting annoyed by Spidey then something is seriously wrong.

Peter was never consistently overly confident, especially in Romita's run. In fact it was during Romita's run that he had one of his biggest crisis of confidence with the Spider-Man no more story. Show me one panel from the comics that shows Peter being so cocky that he nonchalantly reveals his identity to someone like he did to Gwen in TASM by webbing her ass. Go ahead.

I don't want to support this series. I don't know where you got that impression from. I hate the TASM movies. They are awful. I was overjoyed to see the negative response, disappointing box office, and bad critic rating TASM 2 got. It gives me hope that people are not willing to swallow this garbage. We deserve better Spider-Man movies than this trash.
 
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I felt with Raimi, he told jokes at the right time.

"I have a knack for that"

"Here's your change"

"I'm the sheriff around here"

Wouldn't mind more but the jokes in TASM2 felt out of place. One minute he's serious talking to Electro, next he's joking around with him.
 
I do think he comes off like a jerk. Take TASM2. He allows that truck to smash cars left and right, while he sits on the roof and makes fun of him while doing NOTHING to stop the truck. Then, we find out, he is toying around when he KNOWS he is nearly late to his graduation and for Gwen's speech. Sorry, that is showing me he has bad priorities. It seems like he'd rather be Spider-Man than he would see Gwen's biggest moment of her life at the time. Yes, Peter is late to important things ALL the time in the comic, but it isn't for lack of effort for trying to be there. When he needs to be somewhere, he tries not to toy around. He tries to end those battles quickly. Here, he wasn't. In fact, he seemed to making it a point NOT to rush it. Bad portrayel, This is not the only evidence of Garfield Parker acting this way, and I don't like it. It is very NOT Spider-Man to me.

To me, Garfield's Peter is way too much of a jock for me to buy as a nerd. Even if today's nerds are not as awkward as Tobey's Peter, there is no way Garfield's Parker WASN'T a cool kid in school. Peter is not the type of guy who makes out with his girl on stage. That is a jock move. Also, Peter should know enough about science not to need YT to explain how a battery works. Things like this add up to me not buying into this character. I do think there is a balanced portrayel of Parker somewhere between Garfield's jock and Maquire's nerd that would be best for Parker. So far, we didn't get that, but I find myself able to root for Maguire's underdog Parker much more than Garfield's fast talking jock.

i'd say that garfield's parker was more confident in the role. and i don't see a problem with him kissing gwen on stage since he seems overly joyful and let's not forget ourselves that in the comics peter is more confdient. but i do agree that andrew's peter needed more fixing
 
I felt with Raimi, he told jokes at the right time.

"I have a knack for that"

"Here's your change"

"I'm the sheriff around here"

Wouldn't mind more but the jokes in TASM2 felt out of place. One minute he's serious talking to Electro, next he's joking around with him.

i think it's because electro he was distracting electro while tobey just beated up doc without asking questions
 
i'd say that garfield's parker was more confident in the role. and i don't see a problem with him kissing gwen on stage since he seems overly joyful and let's not forget ourselves that in the comics peter is more confdient. but i do agree that andrew's peter needed more fixing

Comic book Peter would never have done that. He only showed off like that as Spider-Man. Never Parker.
 
Peter did that because he was energetic after stopping a truck chase and because he wanted to make up for being late,makes total sense.

He isn't shy on the comics for a loonggg time now.
 
This isn't about being shy, it is a matter of showing off. Peter in the comics used Spider-Man as his outlet to show off. That's one reason Peter was always drawn to being Spider-Man: the freedom when he is in the costume. In the Webb version, he shows off anyway. There is no distinction between his 2 lives, other than trying to hide it from Aunt May, but that isn't the whole struggle between juggling the 2 identities. It goes beyond that, and to this point, Spider-Man 2 is the only movie really to explore that at all.

Shy or not, when he is Peter, he doesn't do things like that. Peter not making out with Gwen on stage doesn't make him a nerd, but doing so makes him look like a cocky jock. Aka, not Peter Parker.
 
There is no distinction between his 2 lives, other than trying to hide it from Aunt May, but that isn't the whole struggle between juggling the 2 identities

Really?He spent the whole movie being Spider-Man while struggling to deal with his personal problems with Harry,Gwen and getting closure about his parents.

Also,he's having fun while being Spidey at least on the start where the Raimi movies never actually expressed that.He's cocky and sarcastic like Spider-Man always was.Gwen's death changed his way to a more reserved person now,like the comics did.

It's called Character Development.

Shy or not, when he is Peter, he doesn't do things like that. Peter not making out with Gwen on stage doesn't make him a nerd, but doing so makes him look like a cocky jock. Aka, not Peter Parker.

Like I said before,the character isn't perfect in any ways and he isn't a pathetic loser forever.

Also,didn't Peter made out with Silk on the apartment he shares with that little woman?She actually caught them. Is he a jerk? In my vision, Peter Webb verse is no different than 616.
 
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Really?He spent the whole movie being Spider-Man while struggling to deal with his personal problems with Harry,Gwen and getting closure about his parents.

He barely had scenes with Harry. The struggle doesn't really land given how rushed it was. As for the parents, that again, was not developed well in Part 2. Part 1 more arguable, but Part 2, it is fairly underdeveloped and disappears a lot in the movie. Gwen was the biggest underlying problem for him in the movie because they focused on it, but even there, he forces that struggle on himself. Life wasn't dragging them apart before he was like "Oh crap, ghost dad isn't happy!" Everything was fine before that.

Also,he's having fun while being Spidey at least on the start where the Raimi movies never actually expressed that.He's cocky and sarcastic like Spider-Man always was.Gwen's death changed his way to a more reserved person now,like the comics did.

It's called Character Development.

Once again, as SPIDER-MAN I agree. My issue here is PETER PARKER is not like that.

Like I said before,the character isn't perfect in any ways and he isn't a pathetic loser forever.

Also,didn't Peter made out with Silk on the apartment he shares with that little woman?She actually caught them. Is he a jerk? In my vision, Peter Webb verse is no different than 616.

I never said he had to be a loser forever. But, I am not a loser. I never made out with the hottest gal in school on my high school graduating stage, either. Neither did ANY of the cool kids in my class. Does that make them all nerds? I'm not saying we had to make Garfield a total loser. But, he had to be toned down from what he was. He came off too much like an obnoxious jock. Again, which isn't PETER PARKER. Hence my problem.
 
He barely had scenes with Harry. The struggle doesn't really land given how rushed it was. As for the parents, that again, was not developed well in Part 2. Part 1 more arguable, but Part 2, it is fairly underdeveloped and disappears a lot in the movie. Gwen was the biggest underlying problem for him in the movie because they focused on it, but even there, he forces that struggle on himself. Life wasn't dragging them apart before he was like "Oh crap, ghost dad isn't happy!" Everything was fine before that.

But those conflicts existed,I don't see how just because it was apparently "underdeveloped" it doesn't cut when he spent half of the movie struggling with that.

"Everything I know are lies!lies! My mom,my father and there's Harry!Of course I want to save him because he's my best pal but what if work or doesn't work?I don't know..I have no ideas" (Not the exactly line)

This was a lot more intense then what Maguire ever struggled with it but that's my opinion of course.



Once again, as SPIDER-MAN I agree. My issue here is PETER PARKER is not like that.

Already pointed a example with Silk about that but fair enough.



I never said he had to be a loser forever. But, I am not a loser. I never made out with the hottest gal in school on my high school graduating stage, either. Neither did ANY of the cool kids in my class. Does that make them all nerds? I'm not saying we had to make Garfield a total loser. But, he had to be toned down from what he was. He came off too much like an obnoxious jock. Again, which isn't PETER PARKER. Hence my problem.

Saying that it never happened with your or with the people around you doesn't mean that the scene shouldn't exist.He was still on adrenaline so that it's pretty obvious where that kiss came from,he wasn't cooled down like in ASM where the reservation is more predominant.
 
But those conflicts existed,I don't see how just because it was apparently "underdeveloped" it doesn't cut when he spent half of the movie struggling with that.

"Everything I know are lies!lies! My mom,my father and there's Harry!Of course I want to save him because he's my best pal but what if work or doesn't work?I don't know..I have no ideas" (Not the exactly line)

This was a lot more intense then what Maguire ever struggled with it but that's my opinion of course.

It is often more effective to have a a simpler struggle than it is for multiple more complex ones. Yes, the Raimi films never gave Peter this much baggage at once, but the simpler struggles helped focus the narrative a lot more than TASM series did. Also, traditionally, Spider-Man comics were more about simpler things: I can't make ends meet, I can't be in two places at once, is Spider-Man dominating my life, etc. etc. etc. The Raimi films got this stuff right. Yes, Spider-Man in the comics has had complex struggles. But largely, those all focused on clones and things readers hated. The best Spider-Man stories focused on simpler conflicts: Should Peter's life comes second to Spider-Man, I need to be in place X but crap there is a villain! Etc.

In TASM, you don't really see Peter struggling for money. It gets MENTIONED, but you don't feel it. You can throw as much stuff as you want in a movie, but if you don't develop it, no one cares. So, a whole lot of complex baggage isn't the answer. Especially when the character was FOUNDED on more simple struggles traditionally.



Saying that it never happened with your or with the people around you doesn't mean that the scene shouldn't exist.He was still on adrenaline so that it's pretty obvious where that kiss came from,he wasn't cooled down like in ASM where the reservation is more predominant.

I don't care where it came from. Peter plenty of times in the comics when he wasn't a nerd and had more swagger wouldn't just do things like this after a battle. It's not consistent with the Peter Parker character in the comics. I can name plenty of comics where after a hard battle, Peter doesn't come to MJ all hornified and starts making out with her. Quite honestly, it also didn't add anything to the movie, either. Much of Garfield's improving I don't think did (the Johns Hopkins rant he made was painful).
 
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I don't care where it came from. Peter plenty of times in the comics when he wasn't a nerd and had more swagger wouldn't just do things like this after a battle. It's not consistent with the Peter Parker character in the comics. I can name plenty of comics where after a hard battle, Peter doesn't come to MJ all hornified and starts making out with her. Quite honestly, it also didn't add anything to the movie, either. Much of Garfield's improving I don't think did (the Johns Hopkins rant he made was painful).

Horny:huh: Making up for your girlfriend for missing such important moment as her speech makes him horny? And it wasn't a hard battle unlike with the Electro one,he clearly was having fun doing his job.

Okay then.


BTW, we somehow agreed about the struggling thing that's why I didn't quoted.
 
Horny:huh: Making up for your girlfriend for missing such important moment as her speech makes him horny? And it wasn't a hard battle unlike with the Electro one,he clearly was having fun doing his job.

Okay then.


BTW, we somehow agreed about the struggling thing that's why I didn't quoted.

My point is you said it was a mix of fun and testosterone, and my point is in the comics, Peter doesn't behave that way, even well into the early 2000s when he was no longer a nerd. It simply isn't him, and things like that made it hard for me to buy into this version of the character.
 

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