Sequels Recasting the X-Men for the MCU

Well that wan't the problem, was it?
I didn't mind no, but they received a lot of hate for it. It does also send a bad precedent that the first thing we hear about the X-Men at Marvel is "we are going to change x".
 
I’m hearing Denzel Washington. I think marvel needs to be careful with their race bending because Disney’s “diversity” isn’t as inclusive or ground breaking as you’d think.

The little mermaid as a black girl is a dangerous choice. If you pay very close attention to the story, it’s a girl who lives in a world of fantasy (stories) and a prince who lives in a real human palace. And she wants to be up there and yearns to have the means to do what they do up there. if you read between the lines it’s a metaphor for a poor girl. She knows she doesn’t have the means to do things the prince does with the legs she doesn’t have. (See part of your world song). So Disney’s just swapped a white girl for a black girl in a poor girl role if you think about it. Or a disabled girl even. You can insult minorities that way. It’s like making your first Gay hero also Mexican.

And then there’s coco which has no Mexican Disney princess in a movie. They’re acknowledging these populations exist but they’re keeping them in an inferior category. That’s not equal treatment to me at all.

Marvel should make some gender Swaps for a Mexican xman carefully.
 
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The little mermaid as a black girl is a dangerous choice. If you pay very close attention to the story, it’s a girl who lives in a world of fantasy (stories) and a prince who lives in a real human palace. And she wants to be up there and yearns to have the means to do what they do up there. if you read between the lines it’s a metaphor for a poor girl. She knows she doesn’t have the means to do things the prince does with the legs she doesn’t have. (See part of your world song). So Disney’s just swapped a white girl for a black girl in a poor girl role if you think about it. Or a disabled girl even. You can insult minorities that way. It’s like making your first Gay hero also Mexican.
Ariel isn't a poor girl, she's a princess. Her father is a king and ruler of a nation. She's not in love with wealth, she was born into it. She's in love with someone from a different country/race/culture.
 
Ariel isn't a poor girl, she's a princess. Her father is a king and ruler of a nation. She's not in love with wealth, she was born into it. She's in love with someone from a different country/race/culture.
No, she wants to have legs to be able to walk and do things like the people above her on the surface but she has to sell A part of her body secretly to do it. She also collects things humans drop, and her father wants nothing more but for her to be happy with what she has. But she wants more.

If it’s open to interpretation that way, someone can always feel insulted. To me she’s either poor or disabled, in an indirect literary kind of way

Here’s another thought. Why can’t prince Eric be black instead
 
No, she wants to have legs to be able to walk and do things like the people above her on the surface but she has to sell A part of her body secretly to do it. She also collects things humans drop, and her father wants nothing more but for her to be happy with what she has. But she wants more.

If it’s open to interpretation that way, someone can always feel insulted. To me she’s either poor or disabled, in an indirect literary kind of way

Here’s another thought. Why can’t prince Eric be black instead
There's nothing stopping Eric from being black, if they decide to go that way. If he is, then it's a big-budget studio movie with two black leads. If he remains white, then it emphasizes the cultural/racial/national divide between them by making Ariel & Eric an inter-racial couple.
 
I keep thinking I accidentally stumbled into the Little Mermaid thread when I come on here.
 
It's the genderbending that needs to be done carefully with Marvel's X-Men.

with Disney, Black Prince Eric + white Ariel would be fine. I'm just claiming the opposite of that is somewhat insulting.

Take a look at the main cast of the upcoming "Onward". Characters are all animated and blue, actors are all white. Live Action Aladdin's Princess Jasmine was somewhat white-washed, just to add to the list of things. Disney definitely cares about two things: making money from "diversity" and unequal representation of minority populations.
 
Lool You've got to love it . This race bending gender swapping crap will only get worse . I guarantee the next F4 movie will not be all white for the sake of diversity. What a time to be alive . Disney have got their fingers in so many pies that at this point they are unstoppable. I don't think ive seen such a dominance from a studio to constantly make controversial decisions without really harming there pockets. Of course the backlash is warranted to some degree but they could honestly turn captain america black,and will still make bank at the box office regardless of the negative press that's how much power they have at the moment and that's how much the average moviegoer really is to blame for letting this slid aswell.

Your still voting with your money when you see these films on the big screen. Complaining about what there doing to characters etc but there you are in the cinema with a nice bag of popcorn with your other half lool ****ing hypocrites. You've got a bunch of white men and women in a office in Disney studios ticking off a checklist of diversity and appeasing demographics because of previous success . Black folks are not pushing this **** its white folks. That to me is incredible absolutely incredible.

If Magneto and Professor X are cast as black people and most of the fan base are letting it slid. You as the consumer are to blame. YOU VOTE WITH YOUR MONEY NOT YOUR MOUTH.

I really want to see what would happen if Blade,Luke Cage were race swapped. You best believe i wouldn't reach into my pockets for that bull**** but would the average movie goer ?

In conclusion there is a shift in the world at the moment Corporations like Disney are in prime position to take advantage, Constant Disney live action remakes, Disney streaming service, Disney/Marvel . The future is bright for them regardless if there race mixing gender swapping roles. The majority of the public are answering well to the changes .
 
Agreed! As a black guy, i hate the idea of race swapping characters especially X-men who are already diverse. I don't want Magneto or professor X to be black because their color doesn't keep me from or allow me to relate to them. Their personality, goals, fears, struggles etc. do. This is why Spidey is the most relatable superhero. Then you get that tired response:'race isn't important to the character so it can be changed'. But then why change their race at all if you agree that race isn't important? please Keep them as authentic as possible.

Disney only wants superficial diversity (gender, skincolor, sexuality). Not diversity of thought, political ideology, philosophy etc. And by the way, Marvel has plenty of non white original characters. If Disney is so concerned with representation why not introduce them instead of taking away from established white/male characters? Why wasn't Monica Rambeau Captain Marvel?
 
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I'm black/gay/Asian[insert minority] and I don't care about diversity. It makes no difference to me."

Yea, but you don't speak for everybody. Throwing your race weight around in these sort of discussions makes no difference either, because for every minority who doesn't care, there are one hundred thousand more who do. The Box-office proves it.

Black Panther being black is a huge part of why that movie was a cultural phenomenon -- it's story specific to black issues and black identity; the cultural divide between different factions of black people around the world. As a black man (of the Blasian variety) that story connected with me on a deeper level than many other films, because the story was specific to my experience. And the same is true for millions of other black people who connected with Black Panther.

And I'm sure the same is true of women who connected with films like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. I know both of nieces loved these two films. Seeing a woman stand strong and proud among her male peers. It sends a message of empowerment and validation to a woman or girl who feels lesser because of an arbitrary label given to her by society. It shatters those glass walls.

Diversity matters -- Representation matters. Just because it doesn't matter to you don't mean it doesn't matter a whole lot to millions of others.

And that brings us to the topic of the X-Men. This is a franchise that has repeatedly bolstered as Marvel's vehicle to illustrate and express social justice ideas, identity politics and the discrimination and persecution of minority groups. This is a franchise that has drawn thematic parallels to -- The Atlantic Slave trade, Jim Crow era America, Auschwitz/The Holocaust, the real-life segregation and wide-scale dehumanization of native black Africans (Bantustans) and other colored people during the height of Verwoerd's Institutionalized Apartheid in South Africa (The Mutant Apartheid in Genosha), the HIV/AIDS epidemic that swept through the LGBTQ community in the 80s while many political leaders turned a blind eye to their suffering, Gay conversion therapies and even sometimes, tackling Intersectionality of a minority group. The parallel was driven so strong by Claremont at points that the N-Word was used to compare compare the suffering and murder that mutants faced as a parallel to black lives.


So with all that taken into account, with everything this franchise as come to encapsulate, why, o-why, would a modern adaptation of this property NOT restricted to the confines the comics code, bolster an all-white or even mostly straight-white cast? For a contemporary adaptation of a property like the X-Men, people of color & the LGBTQ should be able to be the stars of the stories that the mutant struggle was rooted in, in the first place. "Yea but so-and-so was white in the comics!" Because they filtered these stories through straight, white characters. Claremont used the "default" defacto model of protagonist (while still incorporating as much diversity as he could at the time) to teach kids and adults alike who know nothing of tolerance, equality and unity -- how important those values are. It was his way to tell their stories (and his own, as a Jewish man) through an acceptable model. But that mode filter needs not exist anymore, because execs are realizing that minorities *want representation. And Kevin Feige & the people at Marvel Studios are committed to it. Now is the perfect time to update this property in a way that stays true to the INTENTION of what these stories were supposed to represent in the first place.
 
First off, i never claimed to speak for every minority. I just stated my race because of its relevance to this potential casting. Also, people often assume i'm white when i say this.

Second, the box office doesn't prove diveristy matters it just proves all kinds of people like Marvel movies. The motivation for watching MCU movies differs from person to person (hence why i don't claim to speak for every minority). To say it's because of diversity is shortsighted to me. I mean the most popular MCU characters are still white heterosexual males (Iron Man, Cap and Thor). If diversity was that important then why are Spider-Man, Batman and Superman the most popular superheroes on the planet? All kinds of people love them, not just white christian hetero sexual males.

However i do agree that it's a good thing to see characters of different races, genders etc. I just want original poc characters to be introduced instead of them race swapping characters and pretending like they didn't have diverse characters to work with already.

I also agree that X-Men has served as an allegory for discrmination against different kinds of social groups. But i still don't see why that would mean it's a good idea to actually make them black. I like characters to be as authentic as possible. Others might not, i understand.

But if Marvel said we're gonna make Storm Romani instead of African (which is possible by your argument as romas have a history of persecution as well) people would lose their s***.
 
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I also agree that X-Men has served as an allegory for discrmination against different kinds of social groups. But i still don't see why that would mean it's a good idea to actually make them black. I like characters to be as authentic as possible. Others might not, i understand.

But if Marvel said we're gonna make Storm Romani instead of African (which is possible by your argument as romas have a history of persecution as well) people would lose their s***.

If the stories being told come from the experiences of various minorities, which the X-men take from frequently, then it just isn't appropriate to use straight, white characters to tell those stories. I'm a massive X-men comic book fan but I know those comics came from a very specific cultural context that needs radical reinvention today.

No one has ever ever ever made that suggestion about a Romani Storm in good faith. Ever.
 
Haha yeah because Romani Storm would be atrocious.
 
First off, i never claimed to speak for every minority. I just stated my race because of its relevance to this potential casting. Also, people often assume i'm white when i say this. Second, the box office doesn't prove diveristy matters it just proves all kinds of people like Marvel movies. The motivation for watching MCU movies differs from person to person (hence why i don't claim to speak for every minority). To say it's because of diversity is shortsighted to me. I mean the most popular MCU characters are still white heterosexual males (Iron Man, Cap and Thor). If diversity was that important then why are Spider-Man, Batman and Superman the most popular superheroes on the planet? All kinds of people love them, not just white christian hetero sexual males.
Theater analysts are able to compile data that show the racial/gender demographics of every film. And it is statistically proven that minorities show up 5x more in attendance when they are represented in the film. Why do you think all of these Studios are falling over themselves to have diversity in their films? Because diversity is big business. That doesn't mean minorities won't show up for non-minority led films, all it means is that they will be overrepresented in the stats of films where they have major roles.

These films have cultural significance for the communities & groups they represent. Black Panther is easily the best example because the impact that movie had on the black community is even readily visible to people, who aren't paying attention.

i do agree that it's a good thing to see characters of different races, genders etc. I just want original poc characters to be introduced instead of them race swapping characters and pretending like they didn't have diverse characters to work with already.
Everytime somebody uses this argument, I wonder if they are arguing in goodfaith. Because for many of these franchises, the minority characters are far and few in between and have zero marketability or marquee value. And as a result, severely lack substantial material to mine from for an adaptation. And this is why filmmakers are ALWAYS going to race swap the meaningful characters (Who are almost always white) vs using a bit minority from the comics who lack substance and depth.

Now the X-Men is a bit more of an outlier, because it's one the more diverse properties in the MU & that's obviously because of the subject matter. But that's the entire mythos as a whole, not the main classic X-Men. There are 5 main poc X-Men introduced from 1975 and 2000 -- Storm, Bishop, Forge, Psylocke & Jubilee. Now some may try to add characters like Thunderbird, Cecilia Reyes and Sunfire to beef up that number. But all 3 of them; all 3 of their tentures are either not relevant or very short-lived. Thunderbird is a token minority who died at the beginning of Claremont's run, his main purpose is to die. And Sunfire left the team after his very first adventure and has remained separate 90% of the time since 1975 bar a few team ups. Cecilia's X-Men membership was also short-lived. Nobody remembers her for being an X-Man.


You can't just randomly compile a bunch of minorities from the comics. Especially characters like Bishop and Psylocke. Creative discretion is going to be advised and the filmmakers are going to use whoever fits the story they are telling, those minority characters always listed have specific stories that may not fit the story they are telling. It's not as simple as "Ummm just use Bishop instead of Rogue". Because of the fact that this is a reintroduction to this franchise starting from scratch, some of the "Starter pack" characters are going to to be used. And all/most of them are white.

I also agree that X-Men has served as an allegory for discrmination against different kinds of social groups. But i still don't see why that would mean it's a good idea to actually make them black. I like characters to be as authentic as possible. Others might not, i understand.
I explained why the dozen or so word mini essay I wrote above your posts. This franchise is built on the backs of marginalized minority groups. So a contemporary adaptation should have marginalized minorities in the lead roles and not have their stories filtered through straight, white characters.

Believe me, 2 years ago, I was in the same mindset. I didn't want any race swaps but I realize now that Marvel really has a chance to tell the X-Men story no holds barred and make the X-Men culturally relevant (again) in a way we've ever seen before.

Look at it this way, Claremont's X-Men was a natural evolution of Stan Lee/Jack Kirby's X-Men. He took the seeds of the discrimination and persecution angle Introduced in the original run and made mutants an anagram for oppressed minorities -- this revolutionized the franchise and made it culturally relevant. But he was still limited by his time.

Feige can take what Claremont did to the next level. And reimagine the X-Men to be culturally and socially relevant to modern times. Claremont leaped so Marvel Studios could fly
But if Marvel said we're gonna make Storm Romani instead of African (which is possible by your argument as romas have a history of persecution as well) people would lose their s***.
Of course there would be outrage. Storm's race and origin story defines her character unlike say Hank McCoy, Rogue or even Jean who are only white because that's the default protagonist & character model. Nothing about them is defined by their having white skin. Storm is defined by her African heritage.

Why is context always ignored in this specific debate? You would have had a stronger argument if you used a character like Sean Cassidy aka Banshee as an example -- whose Irish culture defines his identity as a character.
 
i don't remember Cecelia as an X-Man per se, but I remember really like the character, especially around O:ZT and after. I kinda feel like Claire (Rosario Dawson) is very similar to her in a way.

If X-Men are coming over to the Marvel verse, I wouldn't mind seeing Moonstar getting some screentime. Especially since she has tie-ins to the Valkyrie, which could cross-connect with Thor in ways.
I also really started to like Dust before I fell out of the comic scene. Granted I've not read a comic in a few years, so I'm not sure if I'd like her now, but at one time there were some potentially great new characters they could introduce as well, and not just bank on all the iconic characters.
 
And once again, it’s all black and white. My point all along was that there’s a huge Latino population (guilty as any of us for supporting marvel with their money) but they’re the ones who were in the USA just second after the native Americans and they’ve helped in every American war and continue to be hardworking and peaceful regardless What they say on the news (when’s the last time you heard of a Mexican mass shooter? They’re all white!)

Why not make a major character like cyclops Latino? someone you don’t cover up in fur or make up?
 
And once again, it’s all black and white. My point all along was that there’s a huge Latino population (guilty as any of us for supporting marvel with their money) but they’re the ones who were in the USA just second after the native Americans and they’ve helped in every American war and continue to be hardworking and peaceful regardless What they say on the news (when’s the last time you heard of a Mexican mass shooter? They’re all white!)

Why not make a major character like cyclops Latino? someone you don’t cover up in fur or make up?
That's a good point. I would welcome a Latino Scott, Bobby, Hank (Pre-Serum)etc. Actually, Rogue being Latina is my go-to but I wouldn't mind a Latina Jean at all either.

And Scott being Native American could work, considering the amount of Native tribes that reside in Alaska. A change that potentially enhances the mythos of the Summers family
 
I'm black/gay/Asian[insert minority] and I don't care about diversity. It makes no difference to me."

Yea, but you don't speak for everybody. Throwing your race weight around in these sort of discussions makes no difference either, because for every minority who doesn't care, there are one hundred thousand more who do. The Box-office proves it.

Black Panther being black is a huge part of why that movie was a cultural phenomenon -- it's story specific to black issues and black identity; the cultural divide between different factions of black people around the world. As a black man (of the Blasian variety) that story connected with me on a deeper level than many other films, because the story was specific to my experience. And the same is true for millions of other black people who connected with Black Panther.

And I'm sure the same is true of women who connected with films like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. I know both of nieces loved these two films. Seeing a woman stand strong and proud among her male peers. It sends a message of empowerment and validation to a woman or girl who feels lesser because of an arbitrary label given to her by society. It shatters those glass walls.

Diversity matters -- Representation matters. Just because it doesn't matter to you don't mean it doesn't matter a whole lot to millions of others.

And that brings us to the topic of the X-Men. This is a franchise that has repeatedly bolstered as Marvel's vehicle to illustrate and express social justice ideas, identity politics and the discrimination and persecution of minority groups. This is a franchise that has drawn thematic parallels to -- The Atlantic Slave trade, Jim Crow era America, Auschwitz/The Holocaust, the real-life segregation and wide-scale dehumanization of native black Africans (Bantustans) and other colored people during the height of Verwoerd's Institutionalized Apartheid in South Africa (The Mutant Apartheid in Genosha), the HIV/AIDS epidemic that swept through the LGBTQ community in the 80s while many political leaders turned a blind eye to their suffering, Gay conversion therapies and even sometimes, tackling Intersectionality of a minority group. The parallel was driven so strong by Claremont at points that the N-Word was used to compare compare the suffering and murder that mutants faced as a parallel to black lives.


So with all that taken into account, with everything this franchise as come to encapsulate, why, o-why, would a modern adaptation of this property NOT restricted to the confines the comics code, bolster an all-white or even mostly straight-white cast? For a contemporary adaptation of a property like the X-Men, people of color & the LGBTQ should be able to be the stars of the stories that the mutant struggle was rooted in, in the first place. "Yea but so-and-so was white in the comics!" Because they filtered these stories through straight, white characters. Claremont used the "default" defacto model of protagonist (while still incorporating as much diversity as he could at the time) to teach kids and adults alike who know nothing of tolerance, equality and unity -- how important those values are. It was his way to tell their stories (and his own, as a Jewish man) through an acceptable model. But that mode filter needs not exist anymore, because execs are realizing that minorities *want representation. And Kevin Feige & the people at Marvel Studios are committed to it. Now is the perfect time to update this property in a way that stays true to the INTENTION of what these stories were supposed to represent in the first place.

Because for certain character their ethnicity or race is important to the story. Erik Lehnsher is a European Jew who discovers his powers (ironically controlling metal) when his mother is murdered during the holocaust. It’s difficult to maintain that origin if his race is changed.
 
I'm black/gay/Asian[insert minority] and I don't care about diversity. It makes no difference to me."

Yea, but you don't speak for everybody. Throwing your race weight around in these sort of discussions makes no difference either, because for every minority who doesn't care, there are one hundred thousand more who do. The Box-office proves it.

Black Panther being black is a huge part of why that movie was a cultural phenomenon -- it's story specific to black issues and black identity; the cultural divide between different factions of black people around the world. As a black man (of the Blasian variety) that story connected with me on a deeper level than many other films, because the story was specific to my experience. And the same is true for millions of other black people who connected with Black Panther.

And I'm sure the same is true of women who connected with films like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. I know both of nieces loved these two films. Seeing a woman stand strong and proud among her male peers. It sends a message of empowerment and validation to a woman or girl who feels lesser because of an arbitrary label given to her by society. It shatters those glass walls.

Diversity matters -- Representation matters. Just because it doesn't matter to you don't mean it doesn't matter a whole lot to millions of others.

And that brings us to the topic of the X-Men. This is a franchise that has repeatedly bolstered as Marvel's vehicle to illustrate and express social justice ideas, identity politics and the discrimination and persecution of minority groups. This is a franchise that has drawn thematic parallels to -- The Atlantic Slave trade, Jim Crow era America, Auschwitz/The Holocaust, the real-life segregation and wide-scale dehumanization of native black Africans (Bantustans) and other colored people during the height of Verwoerd's Institutionalized Apartheid in South Africa (The Mutant Apartheid in Genosha), the HIV/AIDS epidemic that swept through the LGBTQ community in the 80s while many political leaders turned a blind eye to their suffering, Gay conversion therapies and even sometimes, tackling Intersectionality of a minority group. The parallel was driven so strong by Claremont at points that the N-Word was used to compare compare the suffering and murder that mutants faced as a parallel to black lives.


So with all that taken into account, with everything this franchise as come to encapsulate, why, o-why, would a modern adaptation of this property NOT restricted to the confines the comics code, bolster an all-white or even mostly straight-white cast? For a contemporary adaptation of a property like the X-Men, people of color & the LGBTQ should be able to be the stars of the stories that the mutant struggle was rooted in, in the first place. "Yea but so-and-so was white in the comics!" Because they filtered these stories through straight, white characters. Claremont used the "default" defacto model of protagonist (while still incorporating as much diversity as he could at the time) to teach kids and adults alike who know nothing of tolerance, equality and unity -- how important those values are. It was his way to tell their stories (and his own, as a Jewish man) through an acceptable model. But that mode filter needs not exist anymore, because execs are realizing that minorities *want representation. And Kevin Feige & the people at Marvel Studios are committed to it. Now is the perfect time to update this property in a way that stays true to the INTENTION of what these stories were supposed to represent in the first place.

Because for certain character their ethnicity or race is important to the story. Erik Lehnsher is a European Jew who discovers his powers (ironically controlling metal) when his mother is murdered during the holocaust. It’s difficult to maintain that origin if his race is changed.
 
..Anyway, here are some of my latest casting ideas:

Peyton Elizabeth Lee (15) as Jubilation Lee
280full.jpg
Fixed it for ya.
 
Honestly, if they're going to play with ethnicity or color they should do the smart way.

The standard hollywood character is white.

What they did with Iceman was add something to the standard white by doing "white + gay" and that's passable.

With Rogue, however, you have "Southern US culture + implied AIDS references" already, so adding a dark skin color to her is pushing it. Standard Southern belle would be nice.

You should be careful with throwing all the minority tags on one character "Disabled + latino + gay," etc. That could be insulting, especially since many of these populations carry their own stigmas and traditions.

You should spread the diversity around mostly among white characters who have few other defining qualities to them. There's Shadowcat, Iceman, Cyclops, maybe Angel.
 
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Honestly, if they're going to play with ethnicity or color they should do the smart way.

The standard hollywood character is white.

What they did with Iceman was add something to the standard white by doing "white + gay" and that's passable.

With Rogue, however, you have "Southern US culture + implied AIDS references" already, so adding a dark skin color to her is pushing it. Standard Southern belle would be nice.

You should be careful with throwing all the minority tags on one character "Disabled + latino + gay," etc. That could be insulting, especially since many of these populations carry their own stigmas and traditions.

You should spread the diversity around mostly among white characters who have few other defining qualities to them. There's Shadowcat, Iceman, Cyclops, maybe Angel.
You know, even if you're fine with race bending for the sake of diversity, it seems you can never get people to fully agree on which characters to use. You mentioned Shadowcat and Angel and I can't picture them being anything other than a nice Jewish girl-next-door and an old-money WASP respectively. I think we all have gotten used to seeing these characters in a certain way and don't like anyone messing with that.
 

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