Rocksteady's Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League

[AndrewGilkison]

For me Arkham Knight has the worst story out of the whole series (or did). Its take on Jason Todd and the Death In The Family story arc is bad (Jason is "killed" in a video that Joker sends to Batman, and Batman just takes it at face value without seeing Jason's body himself... that is bull****). Joker's blood somehow is able to turn other people into bad Joker clones who do poor imitations of him. Oracle and Robin are dating all of a sudden. Batman never figures out Jason is Arkham Knight, even though it should be obvious to him. The writing is not good.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

The writing in the Arkham series has been questionable since day 1. What those games had going for them was they delivered on the promise of making the player feel like Batman. The writing didn't matter because the gameplay delivered. I don't think it's an incredibly hot take to say that Arkham Origins got more of the Batman stuff right narratively. With that being said

Spoiler

pissing on the Flash's corpse is so irredeemably stupid that any grievances I had with the previous games seem miniscule.

Like holy **** this game is embarrassing.

 

[TheVileOne]

It seems like the entire game (including tying it to the ArkhamVerse) was mandated by WB. Live service. Suicide Squad game with a black Deadshot to tie it to the 2016 movie and the 2016 Zack Snyder-led DCEU (which is why The Flash suit looks like that version, and Wonder Woman is Gal Gadot like). It has the same problem that The Avengers game had where it looks like a movie tie in game that missed its release window and is outdated. The Arkham universe tie in seems like another forced element in order to try and prop it up. It looks like such a mishmash of stuff (ArkhamVerse, DCEU) that it lacks its own identity.

I would be very interested to learn about the various early versions of this game they developed. How many different iterations it went through, and whether it was always intended to be a live service looter shooter or was going to be different.

I wish they did that Batman Beyond game that was developed at one point.

 

[Mani-Man]

Yeah the writing was never a highlight in the Rocksteady Arkham games. Lets all be honest.




This 6 minute scene from Arkham Origins delved more into the Joker's character than the three Rocksteady Arkham games did combined.

Its wild how the best writing happened in Origins by writers who werent comic writers.
Like, dont get me wrong, i like City and Asylums story...but they drop the ball hard around the middle.
Sure Origins has the bad Joker plot twist in Origins...but even then the story just has a better flow and all to me.

The explanation for how Batman comes back after Arkham Knight was terrible and is a throwaway reference

The ending of Arkham Knight was virtually meaningless. And it's another reason why I hate endings where you write yourselves into a corner and there's virtually no satisfying or legitimate way out.

Rocksteady had absolutely no business making a live service looter shooter. Rocksteady doesn't make those types of games, and they aren't good at them.

*Haktoo* to Suicide Squad.

Thats another thing.
The way they told how Batman goes from faking his death to joining the Justice League is such a weak writing.
It ruins the idea of Knights ending as a whole and makes no sense.
The writing of batman in this game makes no sense looking at the previous arkham games.

It seems like the entire game (including tying it to the ArkhamVerse) was mandated by WB. Live service. Suicide Squad game with a black Deadshot to tie it to the 2016 movie and the 2016 Zack Snyder-led DCEU (which is why The Flash suit looks like that version, and Wonder Woman is Gal Gadot like). It has the same problem that The Avengers game had where it looks like a movie tie in game that missed its release window and is outdated. The Arkham universe tie in seems like another forced element in order to try and prop it up. It looks like such a mishmash of stuff (ArkhamVerse, DCEU) that it lacks its own identity.

I would be very interested to learn about the various early versions of this game they developed. How many different iterations it went through, and whether it was always intended to be a live service looter shooter or was going to be different.

The timeline certainly looks questionable and feels very much like studio mandate.
The "What happened" on this game will be certainly interesting one day.

 

[TheSlickTony]

I am just going to copy and paste what I wrote somewhere else (because I really do not want to write it for the third time) -

The discourse around SS is wild. The game is really nothing special (although I plopped $100 down for it, so maybe I’m part of the problem

) but people are treating it like RS killed their dog or it’s ‘the greatest gamplay in a looter-shooter (I’ve even seen just shooter) ever’. Sidenote: we need better names for game genres.

All in all, the JL deaths don’t bother me because WB/DC have been treating there heroes in less than stellar ways outside of the comics for a while now. I’m numb to it. On the other hand, if people honestly think this plays better than Doom Eternal (which, if I’m being honest, I like less than its predecessor) or flippin’ VANQUISH, then I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Also, using a support/consultant company as a boogy man when Rocksteady are big boys and have final say is silly and a new low in video game development discourse.

Addendum: I've been saying Origins is the actual best written Arkham game for years but no one ever listened.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Yeah the writing was never a highlight in the Rocksteady Arkham games. Lets all be honest.




This 6 minute scene from Arkham Origins delved more into the Joker's character than the three Rocksteady Arkham games did combined.

Yup, and I say that as someone who adores the Arkham trilogy. I still don't feel like Origins has gotten it's proper credit. it does so many things right, and it seems people just overlook it. Fantastic christmas setting, the best boss battles, and the story has no extra fat on it. It's got excellent pacing.

 

[Jack Reacher]

I

Also, using a support/consultant company as a boogy man when Rocksteady are big boys and have final say is silly and a new low in video game development discourse.

I don't think they're the "big boys" anymore, lol. I'll say this. It doesn't take much more than a google search to find that many people involved in the previous Rocksteady Arkham Batman games are no longer with the company and this game specifically.

For example; the Arkham Knight writers were Martin Lancaster, Phillip Huxley, Craig Owens, Sefton Hill, Ian Ball and Geoff Johns.

The writers of SS are mainly from the activist group Sweet Baby Inc and it shows in the outcome of this game. They were more involved with this game than any previous project (scripting, dialogue, story). However, Rocksteady itself (with it's current staff and new cooperate goals) obviously signed off on all of this.


Ultimately the failure of SS will speak for itself.

A certain character being executed in the manner that he was... seems like an oddly appropriate way to end this Arkham Batman franchise.

 

[TheVileOne]

I am just going to copy and paste what I wrote somewhere else (because I really do not want to write it for the third time) -

The discourse around SS is wild. The game is really nothing special (although I plopped $100 down for it, so maybe I’m part of the problem

) but people are treating it like RS killed their dog or it’s ‘the greatest gamplay in a looter-shooter (I’ve even seen just shooter) ever’. Sidenote: we need better names for game genres.

All in all, the JL deaths don’t bother me because WB/DC have been treating there heroes in less than stellar ways outside of the comics for a while now. I’m numb to it. On the other hand, if people honestly think this plays better than Doom Eternal (which, if I’m being honest, I like less than its predecessor) or flippin’ VANQUISH, then I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Also, using a support/consultant company as a boogy man when Rocksteady are big boys and have final say is silly and a new low in video game development discourse.

Addendum: I've been saying Origins is the actual best written Arkham game for years but no one ever listened.

They didn't kill a dog. They killed a golden goose.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I don't think they're the "big boys" anymore, lol. I'll say this. It doesn't take much more than a google search to find that many people involved in the previous Rocksteady Arkham Batman games are no longer with the company and this game specifically.

For example; the Arkham Knight writers were Martin Lancaster, Phillip Huxley, Craig Owens, Sefton Hill, Ian Ball and Geoff Johns.

The writers of SS are mainly from the activist group Sweet Baby Inc and it shows in the outcome of this game. They were more involved with this game than any previous project (scripting, dialogue, story). However, Rocksteady itself (with it's current staff and new cooperate goals) obviously signed off on all of this.


Ultimately the failure of SS will speak for itself.

A certain character being executed in the manner that he was... seems like an oddly appropriate way to end this Arkham Batman franchise.

First off, nice dog whistle. Second off, I'd like for you to please define for me what about this incredibly stupid game shows that it is written by "activists". If you think this is some sort of leftist screed, I would love to see your reaction to actually hardcore leftist, politically engaged fiction.

 

[TheSlickTony]

They didn't kill a dog. They killed a golden goose.

To be frank, I really wouldn't consider the 'Arkhamverse' a golden goose when the last widely accessible game came out almost 9 years ago.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

I'd argue taking nearly a decade to release a follow-up to the franchise is part of killing the golden goose, especially one that turned out like this.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

One thing that really bugs me with this, is the core gameplay being based around guns for every single character, that alone means no amount of course correcting they do for the story in future content, and no amount of technical adjustments or gameplay additions could salvage this for me, because the approach to how the characters play is deeply flawed at a foundational level. We aren't going to be jumping around making fancy combo moves with Harley's hammer, we aren't going to get to experiment with a bunch of creative gadget boomerangs, and we aren't going to get to brutally tear our enemies apart with King Shark's raw physical strength, the only one of the team whose combat truly fits their character is Deadshot.

 

[Mani-Man]

One thing that really bugs me with this, is the core gameplay being based around guns for every single character, that alone means no amount of course correcting they do for the story in future content, and no amount of technical adjustments or gameplay additions could salvage this for me, because the approach to how the characters play is deeply flawed at a foundational level. We aren't going to be jumping around making fancy combo moves with Harley's hammer, we aren't going to get to experiment with a bunch of creative gadget boomerangs, and we aren't going to get to brutally tear our enemies apart with King Shark's raw physical strength, the only one of the team whose combat truly fits their character is Deadshot.

Its the other big issue to me.
The Gameplay just limits the pool of characters way too hard.
In its core the mechanic is third person Gun shooting...which is so very boring considering the characters you could have.
The Gameplay will never evolve enough outside of that, in the end every character needs to focus on gun combat.
The variety isnt there, the characters never will feel too unique this way.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Spoiler

Okay, I just learned that this game had Lex Luthor praise the Amazons for "removing toxic masculinity" in Wonder Woman's character bio. Regardless of what your political or social beliefs are... Lex Luthor is not the kind of character who would say any of this kind of ****. Who signed off on that?

 

[TheVileOne]

You play as Captain Boomerang. He's not a marksman! He literally flings boomerangs!

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Apparently sales for this have not been great. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Could the whole...

Spoiler

you only killed clones of the Justice League and need to save the real ones

...revive interest and bring people back?

 

[B]

Apparently sales for this have not been great. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Could the whole...

Spoiler

you only killed clones of the Justice League and need to save the real ones

...revive interest and bring people back?

It's the pricetag & the fact it's nothing like the Arkham games that Rocksteady built it's name on as to why I'd lost interest.

Not to mention Superman AGAIN, being portrayed as a villain, regardless of the reasons, is something that is highly infuriating for myself.

I didn't buy Avengers till it dropped all the way to £10 when it was effectively discontinued & SS will probably be the same, at bare minimum the pricetag would need to be halved for me to even entertain it as generally I don't like these sorts of games. Avengers was actually alright.. for £10, but if I'd paid £50 for that I'd have felt robbed considering it also had a story that was relatively short followed by insanely repetitive missions to grind levels, gear & resourced to upgrade gear etc.

 

[Sithborg]

Apparently sales for this have not been great. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Could the whole...

Spoiler

you only killed clones of the Justice League and need to save the real ones

...revive interest and bring people back?

It apparently sold worse than GOTG, so, I don't think there is is recovering from that kind of self inflicted wound. Besides, all they have said about the future "seasons" is that they are Elseworlds stuff. Likely, that sounds like a in story justification to reuse certain content.

 

[TheSlickTony]

Well, took me 36 hours - Those Riddler trophies were a pain - but I finished it. It was... fine. Quite literally 6/10, maybe 7/10 due to my extreme DC bias. I've seen people say the gameplay is amazing but really, it's just the traversal. The gunplay is nothing special and the traversal + gunplay has a strange rhythm to it.

All in all, the mission structure is what really brings it down. It reminds of Superman Returns, they made a decent gameplay system, but forgot the game.

The story is actually quite inoffensive in terms of "evil" League and killing them. They barely get screen time, their boss fights are strangely subdued, and they just... die. The Squad reacts for all of 5 seconds and even Waller barely seems to care when they're dead. It's like, "Great. Next.", and on to the next.

The only true problem to the story is the fact that it blatantly does not end. Yeah, yeah, "live service", but I vividly remember Avengers being eviscerated for its story being a tutorial for the "endgame".

 

[B]

Well, took me 36 hours - Those Riddler trophies were a pain - but I finished it. It was... fine. Quite literally 6/10, maybe 7/10 due to my extreme DC bias. I've seen people say the gameplay is amazing but really, it's just the traversal. The gunplay is nothing special and the traversal + gunplay has a strange rhythm to it.

All in all, the mission structure is what really brings it down. It reminds of Superman Returns, they made a decent gameplay system, but forgot the game.

The story is actually quite inoffensive in terms of "evil" League and killing them. They barely get screen time, their boss fights are strangely subdued, and they just... die. The Squad reacts for all of 5 seconds and even Waller barely seems to care when they're dead. It's like, "Great. Next.", and on to the next.

The only true problem to the story is the fact that it blatantly does not end. Yeah, yeah, "live service", but I vividly remember Avengers being eviscerated for its story being a tutorial for the "endgame".

36 hours isn't the worst if you've done the main story & all the side quests/challenges you want to do. I've a friend who picked it up & said there was only 10 hours worth of gameplay for the actual story itself, at least for his game style/speed, which would be similar to what Avengers was if not slightly more.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

If this game really has failed in terms sales, I hope it finally kills the trend of trying to force studios known for their single player games and single player IPs to make "live service" looter shooter games that they are not suited for.

 

[Sithborg]

If this game really has failed in terms sales, I hope it finally kills the trend of trying to force studios known for their single player games and single player IPs to make "live service" looter shooter games that they are not suited for.

It is important to point out that Rocksteady was already working on a multiplayer game that was outside of what they were familiar with before they got Suicide Squad after WB Montreal's SS game was cancelled.

 

[blueharvest]

Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League is starting an entirely new leaderboard thanks to an absolutely broken build "far beyond what the game was balanced for"

Broken Burn builds have caused Rocksteady to start the game's leaderboard over from scratch

www.gamesradar.com

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I've still been having fun with this game. I will say, playing solo it has been a solid 6/10 for me. Some fun story moments and entertaining gameplay, but I've been less than certain of the longevity. BUT, since I started playing it fully co-op with 2 friends and my partner, we've been having a total blast. I think there's a lot of character build cohesion and combat nuance when playing in co-op that was completely lost on me in single player. Like one criticism I had about the skill trees seeming mostly very boring, it's actually totally come alive in co-op. I think one problem is likely that a lot of work has gone into making the co-op stuff work very well, but then they've tried to market it as also a single player game?

No, this is built around free flowing, seamless co-op mayhem, and if you go in looking for that you're more likely to have a good time. But yeah, I definitely think the controversy around this game is definitely overblown. It's still not amazing, but the 4 player co op has bumped it up to a 7/10 for me.

I personally didn't mind the Avengers game and thought the characters were well designed, but the missions and game world was so meh. Compared to that, I think the multiplayer here really is intergrated much better.

 

[Mani-Man]

It is important to point out that Rocksteady was already working on a multiplayer game that was outside of what they were familiar with before they got Suicide Squad after WB Montreal's SS game was cancelled.

Yeah, but did we knew what kind of? A shooter or so?
Would be interesting to see anything from the game they had in mind before WB told them to make SS.


Ive been thinking a lot about the Avengers game recently, especially looking at this game.
Those who played both, how are they compared to each other?
For all the problems Avengers had, it at least gave you characters who felt completely different when playing right?