Rogue, they ruined her, or did they?

[bearhulk]

hi, i believe , rogue will get power back and there will be x4 and i think bobby should go with kitty better than rogue

rogue kitty

 

[skruloos]

wanting to touch is not a justification? do you have someone special Skrukloos? If you do, could you go without touching them at all forever?

You trying to argue by making me relate to a situation is irrelevant. It is not a matter of how I would react but how the character that has been established would react.

The only things they focused on for Rogue in relation to her wanting the cure was in response to seeing Bobby with Kitty. If she was really doing it for herself, they should have shown other examples of her longing for humanity other then wanting to get it on with Bobby. It specificially contradicts the message established even in this movie.

Wolverine told her to do it for herself and not for Bobby. And yet, the situations we are shown to justify her wanting to move on are scenes of Rogue looking jealous of Bobby and Kitty spending time with each other instead of him being with her. So in a way, the footage in the film supports the idea that she is taking the cure so Bobby will not run off on her. That is essentially doing exactly the opposite of what she says and what Logan tells her.

 

[skruloos]

skruloos wont understand.. dont bother

Maybe if you actually gave a well thought out and rational argument, I would. Unfortunately, that has yet to happen.

 

[Chris M]

I've never cared much for Rogue in the comics, but I can't believe that the film never had Rogue come of age an realise her full potential.

She was set up so well in the first 2 films. I honestly thought they would have her grow in power and wisdom and groom her to be the mature powerhouse she is supposed to be.

What a waste.

 

[Wolverazio]

She can do whatever she wants if she was a real person. However, the character is not a real person. She is a contrived character. As such, she has established how she reacts in situations. Her choosing the cure completely contradicts what is established by her character and not other character moments are given to justify why she would make that type of decision.

I just had to say this (and realize I will be ripped into shortly). In the comics, when a cure was developed, Beast very nearly took it (and actually got in a fight with Logan because he was going to take it).

Beast can touch people. Beast can be intimate, he just looks different.

And yet, Beast, intellectual who even in the comics had to deal with his mutation a lot longer than Rogue was going to go back on all the "we're mutants and okay with that" hoopla the minute an out was presented (initially).

So Rogue, who is forbidden to touch anyone without killing them potentially is foolish/stupid/trite for taking the cure?

It strikes me as something a real person would do, no matter the reason.

And I think it would have been more foolish for all the X-Men to take that stand "yeah, I can never touch anyone or be held in the arms of someone I love...but I'm a mutant and I'm not going to change that!"

 

[TNC9852002]

She can touch leech.

-TNC

 

[TNC9852002]

Screw the comic arcs. This isn't a comic book adaptation...The Rogue that we know from the movies, from X1 to X3, has stayed consistent...Kitty only drove home how frustrated she'd become of her powers...Her taking the cure voluntarily was a very important part of the film, IMO.

-TNC

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Maybe if you actually gave a well thought out and rational argument, I would. Unfortunately, that has yet to happen.

i have, and your a boufoon to think bobby was the only reason rogue wanted cured

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Screw the comic arcs. This isn't a comic book adaptation...The Rogue that we know from the movies, from X1 to X3, has stayed consistent...Kitty only drove home how frustrated she'd become of her powers...Her taking the cure voluntarily was a very important part of the film, IMO.

-TNC

exactly

 

[LadyVader]

Her taking the cure was very gutsey, however, her choosing to remain with Iceman is pretty cowardly. If she chose to walk away from this life, she should've kept walking. Break up with Bobby, go pack and go back home. As things stand?
She wants to be a hero without making the necessary sacrifices? That's what makes her character weak in my opinion.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

bobby never cheated on her though, hell they even cut iceman and kitty's kiss from the movie. Bobby was swaying towards kitty, flurting and what not, but never cheated. Rogue grew jealous though and was afraid he was cheating. Rogue was eager to be cured with the announcement, wich was before kitty and bobby's escapades. Iceman told her that this is not what he wanted for her... and she said it was her own decision.

Iceman and Rogue have been through alot so i can see why she would stay with him, but id like to see her grow up and realise bobby is and will always be just a boy. And hopefully she'll find gambit

 

[theJust]

Yeah, Rogue's problems are solved as long as she doesn't mind letting Leech watch, or if he promises not to look.

its funny, i dont if this has been mentioned, but in the book, when kitty gets to leech,, she trys to go through the wall, and jimmy explains, and she responds with 'oh rogue's gonna love you!'

 

[TNC9852002]

Ok, this cure can permanently supress mutant genes, huh?

Hmmm....It just seems like something that clever writing could work around in a future film..

-TNC

 

[sky_boy_16]

Screw the comic arcs. This isn't a comic book adaptation...The Rogue that we know from the movies, from X1 to X3, has stayed consistent...Kitty only drove home how frustrated she'd become of her powers...Her taking the cure voluntarily was a very important part of the film, IMO.

-TNC

Oops, I thought I was watching a movie based on X-men... jk/ I had to say it. I don't know, they just changed Rogue too much from the comics. Just about everyone has the same characteristics as their comic counter part... except Rogue, who if she didn't have white streak in her hair I wouldn't be able to tell if it was her *because that's about the only they let her keep*...

 

[skruloos]

i have, and your a boufoon to think bobby was the only reason rogue wanted cured

What other reasons in the movie did they show? Seriously. Give me concrete examples in X3 that showed us why should wanted to change. Give me a scene that didn't revolve around her being jealous and thinking Bobby was going to run off with Kitty. Watch the scene when Logan confronts Rogue and asks whether it was for a boy. Watch which of Logan's lines gets a reaction.

 

[Inner City Blue]

If Rogue wants to get it on with Iceman, she should just have Leech sitting next to the bed. That would definitely be an education for a young boy.

 

[Inner City Blue]

What other reasons in the movie did they show? Seriously. Give me concrete examples in X3 that showed us why should wanted to change. Give me a scene that didn't revolve around her being jealous and thinking Bobby was going to run off with Kitty. Watch the scene when Logan confronts Rogue and asks whether it was for a boy. Watch which of Logan's lines gets a reaction.

I think if you take the first movie into account, it's understandable that this is something that has always been in the back of her mind. I don't think they necessarily needed to have a scene with her expressing the desire to be afraid to touch anyone. And didn't she say she did it for herself in the end, meaning yes she can now touch Bobby, but the reason she did it is because she feels her mutation is a curse that isolates her.

 

[skruloos]

I just had to say this (and realize I will be ripped into shortly). In the comics, when a cure was developed, Beast very nearly took it (and actually got in a fight with Logan because he was going to take it).

Beast can touch people. Beast can be intimate, he just looks different.

And yet, Beast, intellectual who even in the comics had to deal with his mutation a lot longer than Rogue was going to go back on all the "we're mutants and okay with that" hoopla the minute an out was presented (initially).

So Rogue, who is forbidden to touch anyone without killing them potentially is foolish/stupid/trite for taking the cure?

It strikes me as something a real person would do, no matter the reason.

And I think it would have been more foolish for all the X-Men to take that stand "yeah, I can never touch anyone or be held in the arms of someone I love...but I'm a mutant and I'm not going to change that!"

It's not a matter of whether a real person would do it or not. We are watching a narrative. In the cure storyline with Beast, a lot of time was spent showing Beast's struggle with wanting to take the cure. They gave us examples of why he would. They showed us motivation.

That did not happen in X3 with Rogue. As I said a couple times already, if proper motivation had been shown and explained, more people would have accepted Rogue's choice. As it is, everything that occurs with that character is contradictory with what happened in her development from X1 to X2, and even contradicts what she tells Bobby and Logan. They only show examples of her being jealous and afraid of losing Bobby. So really, did she do it for herself or so Bobby wouldn't run off with Kitty?

 

[skruloos]

I think if you take the first movie into account, it's understandable that this is something that has always been in the back of her mind.

And the second movie was all about her adjustment and acceptance of her "curse". That is a step forward in character development. Now that she suddenly has changed her mind again is a step backward in character development.

I don't think they necessarily needed to have a scene with her expressing the desire to be afraid to touch anyone.

Then you would be wrong. Any other scenes focusing on her need to touch people other than Bobby would have supported her decision in the movie by giving us an example of touching someone other than Bobby.

And didn't she say she did it for herself in the end, meaning yes she can now touch Bobby, but the reason she did it is because she feels her mutation is a curse that isolates her.

First rule of filmmaking: Show. Don't Tell. She says she does it for herself. But the scenes in the film with her doubt show that she wants to do it because she's afraid of losing Bobby to Kitty.

 

[skruloos]

Screw the comic arcs. This isn't a comic book adaptation...The Rogue that we know from the movies, from X1 to X3, has stayed consistent...

How do you figure it was consistent? She had finally come to a place with Bobby in X2 where she was working towards accepting her "curse" and X3 totally contradicts that.

 

[Inner City Blue]

And the second movie was all about her adjustment and acceptance of her "curse". That is a step forward in character development. Now that she suddenly has changed her mind again is a step backward in character development.

When did this occur?

Then you would be wrong. Any other scenes focusing on her need to touch people other than Bobby would have supported her decision in the movie by giving us an example of touching someone other than Bobby.

Why would need a scene to show that? People don't normally have the desire to touch others, but saying you're angry that you can never touch anyone is enough communication. Why the snippy attitude though? It's just a movie.

First rule of filmmaking: Show. Don't Tell. She says she does it for herself. But the scenes in the film with her doubt show that she wants to do it because she's afraid of losing Bobby to Kitty.[/QUOTE]Or she could be frustrated that she can't touch Bobby and that makes it feel like she will alays have a wedge between her and others, thus whenever she sees him get close to anyone else, that creeps back into her mind. I think people can easily arrive at different conclusions, it's not so set in stone. Nonetheless, I felt the movie overall was lacking in development on any level. They introduced a theme, but then never explored them. This was something seen throughout the whole movie.

 

[skruloos]

When did this occur?

With her staying with the X-Men and Bobby and learning to have a relationship without touching him.

Why would need a scene to show that?

Do you know anything about storytelling at all? It's not often you just show the end without showing us scenes of how they got there.

Or she could be frustrated that she can't touch Bobby and that makes it feel like she will alays have a wedge between her and others, thus whenever she sees him get close to anyone else, that creeps back into her mind. I think people can easily arrive at different conclusions, it's not so set in stone. Nonetheless, I felt the movie overall was lacking in development on any level. They introduced a theme, but then never explored them. This was something seen throughout the whole movie.

Yes. And it was quite obvious witht the situation with Rogue. And it's not like I'm the only one who feels that way about Rogue. There are others who feel that Rogue should not have taken the cure. What's the most popular counter-argument to that? "I would have taken the cure". Obviously there's something lacking in the story when people can't refer to scenes in the movie to support Rogue's decision but have to resort to personal examples. Every character's motivations should be able to be supported by the film itself.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I hope not...Logan did tell her not to do it for some boy. They only person she wants to touch and love on is Bobby.

a thing to remember though is that she is young, there will be other boys in the future. It's like being an ugly teenager. you'd like to be attractive so you can get girls. Your not wanting it for them, your wanting it for yourself.

 

[Spider-Bite]

. Every character's motivations should be able to be supported by the film itself.

or the ability to relate to the character.

 

[skruloos]

or the ability to relate to the character.

No. Because then you would be applying your personal experiences instead of experiences the character has gone through.