Rogue, they ruined her, or did they?

[TheVileOne]

There's nothing easy about facing down lines of protestors, and your own sense of conscience, and fears about god knows what. Some would argue the "easy way out" is to do nothing, and remain in the status quo. Taking action is often harder than not taking action.

What Rogue did was NOT taking action. She continues to hide from herself. Taking action would've been stepping up to the plate and being an X-man and using her powers to help Wolverine who always watched out for her. Or Bobby if she truly loves him.

It's not like Rogue knew there was going to be a battle at Alcatraz. Are you honestly telling me it's shallow to worry about being able to touch someone witout hurting them, or scaring? Are you freaking kidding me?

It's shallow because she was only concerned about HER OWN DESIRES! There's more to life than touching people for God's sake. I doubt Rogue didn't know about the freaking GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE being torn asunder. And Magneto being on the loose.

No, the cure is not the symbol of prejudice in Rogue's case. That has never been part of Rogue's arc. FEAR and detacment has been part of Rogue's arc. And the cure has been a symbol of a way to assuade those fears and that detachment. It's a symbol of "You are different, and it prevents you from having normal relationships without hurting people or scaring them, so what are you going to do about it?" Ask anyone with a serious mental illness or a serious contagious disease about this concept, and you will start to see that it is a theme that exists in the real world.

Yes it is. It was made because an old guy hates mutants and is scared of them. So he had this cure produced because he hates and is scared of mutants.

And once again if the cure is in fact only temporary than I think it makes most of your arguments even more bull****.

Society's answer to these things is "assimilate", "become normal", and "cure yourself". And that's not always a bad thing to do, in some fashion, depending on your situation. Rogue is the perfect example of this concept. And it makes perfect sense for her to take the cure. And it's not selfish, either.

Hm, I guess this means black people could become normal by painting themselves white. Or Jews in the Inquisition could've become Catholic!

Yeah not a bad thing at all!

It is selfish. Rogue took the cure so she could have sex. Instead of actually stepping up to the plate and using her powers to save people.

What options? This is a girl who touches people, and they almost die. And she is stuck with horrible memories of it, and part of them for the rest of her life.

OK, so she can take the cure that might only be temporary. Or she can kill herself. Or she can LEARN to live and accept these things and try to become better because of it. And actually use her powers for good things.

Huh? The scene at the Drakes' in X2 makes it clear that she has learned to control and direct her powers. She uses it to STOP Pyro and uses her control of his power to SAVE the cops she can. So her powers being used productively HAS been shown in this franchise. And in X3, we see her powers used in the Danger Room to protect herself.

All the more which shows that her having powers doesn't HAVE to be such a curse. She can use them for great things without the stupid cure.

Who says this is her only choice for the rest of her life? She has every right to react to how things are for her NOW.

And she reacted poorly and stupidly.

 

[theguido]

What Rogue did was NOT taking action. She continues to hide from herself. Taking action would've been stepping up to the plate and being an X-man and using her powers to help Wolverine who always watched out for her. Or Bobby if she truly loves him.

It's shallow because she was only concerned about HER OWN DESIRES! There's more to life than touching people for God's sake. I doubt Rogue didn't know about the freaking GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE being torn asunder. And Magneto being on the loose.

I sincerely doubt she would have been of much use in that battle, honestly. I think the little we see of her in the Danger Room shows how dependent she is on other people in combat. Since her power requires direct physical contact her use against the mutants she would face in battle like Pyro, Magneto, Psylocke, et al. would have been minimal at best. Heck, even Juggernaut could take her down just by putting his head down, and Callisto is fast enough that Rogue likely couldn't do anything.

So, in the end she can choose a very limited combat role and be confined within a virtual prison, never being able to touch another person without harming them. Or, she can choose to give up her gift and know human affection. And we're not just talking about sex here. Not being able to touch someone you care for has to be a huge emotional and psychological strain on her. I understand why she did what she did.

Yes it is. It was made because an old guy hates mutants and is scared of them. So he had this cure produced because he hates and is scared of mutants.

It's partially because he's scared of them, yes, but did you see Angel's face when he was trying to cut off his wings? The terrible look on his face is something that no parent would want to see, so as a father he did everything he could to help his son, misguided though it may have been, I don't blame him for trying.

It is selfish. Rogue took the cure so she could have sex. Instead of actually stepping up to the plate and using her powers to save people.

OK, so she can take the cure that might only be temporary. Or she can kill herself. Or she can LEARN to live and accept these things and try to become better because of it. And actually use her powers for good things.


All the more which shows that her having powers doesn't HAVE to be such a curse. She can use them for great things without the stupid cure.

And as I've noted before, I don't think that in her current state she is of much use in battle. Add to the fact that she isn't very physically strong or nimble the fact that she appears to be in a confused psychological state. Even if she could have done the team a little bit of good at Alcatraz, her fragile psychological state would have made her a liability on the battlefield very likely.

 

[TheVileOne]

I sincerely doubt she would have been of much use in that battle, honestly. I think the little we see of her in the Danger Room shows how dependent she is on other people in combat. Since her power requires direct physical contact her use against the mutants she would face in battle like Pyro, Magneto, Psylocke, et al. would have been minimal at best. Heck, even Juggernaut could take her down just by putting his head down, and Callisto is fast enough that Rogue likely couldn't do anything.

Not much use in battle to bad writers and storytellers.

X-men Evolution came up with plenty of ways of Rogue being used in battle. Without flight or super strength.

So your explanation is even more illegitimate to me.

So, in the end she can choose a very limited combat role and be confined within a virtual prison, never being able to touch another person without harming them. Or, she can choose to give up her gift and know human affection. And we're not just talking about sex here. Not being able to touch someone you care for has to be a huge emotional and psychological strain on her. I understand why she did what she did.

She's not giving up her gift. She's hiding from it with what is probably a TEMPORTARY solution. So what if the cure wears off?

Here's the other problem, Rogue knows and does have human affection.

I understand why she did what she did, and I think filmmakers are morons for doing it and it was complete and utter stupidity. And as far as the character, it was selfish, and shallow.

There's more to life than being able to touch people. Rogue and Wolverine have a bond and affection that goes beyond any touch.

It's partially because he's scared of them, yes, but did you see Angel's face when he was trying to cut off his wings? The terrible look on his face is something that no parent would want to see, so as a father he did everything he could to help his son, misguided though it may have been, I don't blame him for trying.

His son was trying to do that to himself because he was scared of what his FATHER would think. Deep down Warren likes his wings, so his father can go piss on himself.

And as I've noted before, I don't think that in her current state she is of much use in battle. Add to the fact that she isn't very physically strong or nimble the fact that she appears to be in a confused psychological state. Even if she could have done the team a little bit of good at Alcatraz, her fragile psychological state would have made her a liability on the battlefield very likely.

She's much use in battle because you think she isn't. Even though she's been written to be of use in battle and could've done something.

And all I hear you coming up with are excuses.

In the second movie, Rogue had grown in attitude and demeanor. I'd say she was psychologically stronger. At the end of the movie she seemed to be part of the team. But in this movie they regress her to the beginning of the first movie.

She's only a liability because the bad storytellers represent her this way. She doesn't have to be. The logical outcome or growth would be that Rogue matures and becomes an asset NOT a liability.

 

[skruloos]

There's nothing easy about facing down lines of protestors, and your own sense of conscience, and fears about god knows what. Some would argue the "easy way out" is to do nothing, and remain in the status quo. Taking action is often harder than not taking action.

Then you know what would have been great? Actually exploring that and showing it to justify her motivations and actually give her some challenges to her decision so that we may empathize more with what she was going through rather than just being shown time and time again that she wanted to keep Bobby from running away with Kitty.

At this point, you're projecting your own situations and fears on Rogue. When you have to fill in the blanks in order to explain a major character decision, then the writers have failed.

Huh? The scene at the Drakes' in X2 makes it clear that she has learned to control and direct her powers. She uses it to STOP Pyro and uses her control of his power to SAVE the cops she can. So her powers being used productively HAS been shown in this franchise. And in X3, we see her powers used in the Danger Room to protect herself.

Exactly. These are steps forward in the development of the character, setting up an arc for her. Instead, she ignores all the good she's been able to learn with her "curse", finding pride on her abilities and who she actually is, and reverts back to her self-loathing.

 

[The Guard]

So what? The cure is not a guarantee obviously. Her choice was a selfish and shallow one. Rogue would've ultimately realized that it was wrong and gone to Alcatraz to help the X-men.

A selfish and shallow one...in your eyes. Tell me, have you ever been in a position where something about you kept you from touching anyone without hurting them?

Of course you could say she might learn to control them down the road, she might learn how to fly if she flaps her arms really hard. But the fact remains that she saw things in the here and now, something that young people tend to do, and made a decision.

Yeah, let's not kid ourselves. Most older people see things in the here and now, too. Tell me, what exactly was Rogue supposed to see in her future? Controlling this power? That seems like a longshot to me.

Yes it does. It makes it a bad storyline because people actually THINK it's ok. It's ok that Rogue took something that was a symbol of hatred and prejudice AGAINST HER! Something that might only be temporary.

Will you please explain to me WHERE the cure as it intersects with Rogue becomes a symbol of hatred and prejudice? It's a symbol of assimilation. But it's not FORCED assimilation, it's completely voluntary. How does that become hatred and prejudice? Hatred and prejudice haven't even been a PART of Rogue's arc. FEAR...brought on by being different...has.

How does she cure herself if the cure wears off? Does she commit suicide? If not, sooner or later she's going to have to solve her problems without going for some stupid answer.

Exactly. Which makes the concept even better, because now it has social relevance. How does one assimilate when the method of assimiliation becomes void?

I also didn't buy her reasoning for taking it at all. She can't have sex? Join the club woman.

She can't TOUCH anyone. Period. When she does, she HURTS them. that is not the kind of thing one "gets over".

What Rogue did was NOT taking action.

What the hell are you talking about? If you mean "she didn't take the RIGHT action", say that. But she definitely "took action", by any definition of the phrase.

She continues to hide from herself.

Because what, her "self" is some random curse she has that keeps her from touching people? So, Rogue's "self" is her disease/affliction?

What about the part of herself that wants to reach out and TOUCH people? Why can't she embrace the part of herself she values most, instead of her powers/curse/gift aspects?

Taking action would've been stepping up to the plate and being an X-man and using her powers to help Wolverine who always watched out for her. Or Bobby if she truly loves him.

Huh? She had no clue the battle was even going to happen.

It's shallow because she was only concerned about HER OWN DESIRES!

Uh...being worried about hurting SOMEONE ELSE if you touch THEM is worrying about your OWN desires and how things affect YOU? Don't think so.

There's more to life than touching people for God's sake.

So?

I doubt Rogue didn't know about the freaking GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE being torn asunder. And Magneto being on the loose.

Since that happens while she's at the clinic, and she hasn't got an X-Jet with her...

No, the cure is not the symbol of prejudice in Rogue's case. That has never been part of Rogue's arc. FEAR and detacment has been part of Rogue's arc. And the cure has been a symbol of a way to assuade those fears and that detachment. It's a symbol of "You are different, and it prevents you from having normal relationships without hurting people or scaring them, so what are you going to do about it?" Ask anyone with a serious mental illness or a serious contagious disease about this concept, and you will start to see that it is a theme that exists in the real world.

Yes it is. It was made because an old guy hates mutants and is scared of them.

That is not at all what the cure is portrayed as.

So he had this cure produced because he hates and is scared of mutants.

Where? Show me the scene where Warren Worthington III is shown to hate and fear mutants?

"I only want to help your people".

And once again if the cure is in fact only temporary than I think it makes most of your arguments even more bull****.

Why? Details, please.

Hm, I guess this means black people could become normal by painting themselves white. Or Jews in the Inquisition could've become Catholic!

Yeah not a bad thing at all!

See, you just assume that Rogue symbolizes gays, or blacks, or what have you, when that is not neccessarily the case. Or that her taking the cure is the writers saying "You should all assimilate". That's also not the case. Look at Rogue as an example of say, serious mental illness, and the dynamic changes completely.

It is selfish. Rogue took the cure so she could have sex. Instead of actually stepping up to the plate and using her powers to save people.

Because god knows, everyone in the world has to find a way to twist their worst aspects to do great good. Or can.

OK, so she can take the cure that might only be temporary. Or she can kill herself. Or she can LEARN to live and accept these things and try to become better because of it. And actually use her powers for good things.

Wow. Just...wow. You realize that if she's MISERABLE and DEPRESSED because of a complete lack of human connection, she's not going to be able to find the DRIVE to use her powers for good on a regular basis, right?

All the more which shows that her having powers doesn't HAVE to be such a curse. She can use them for great things without the stupid cure.

The problem is, while her powers CAN be used for good, they still have a massive downside: they still DENY her what she values most: Human contact.

You keep assuming everything is black and white, or one way. It's hilarious.

And she reacted poorly and stupidly.

Why? Because she didn't choose what YOU value?

So, in the end she can choose a very limited combat role and be confined within a virtual prison, never being able to touch another person without harming them. Or, she can choose to give up her gift and know human affection. And we're not just talking about sex here. Not being able to touch someone you care for has to be a huge emotional and psychological strain on her. I understand why she did what she did.

She's not giving up her gift. She's hiding from it with what is probably a TEMPORTARY solution. So what if the cure wears off?

Problem is, YOU see it as a gift. SHE sees it as a curse, and she has every right to, because SHE has to live with it.

Here's the other problem, Rogue knows and does have human affection.

But how much? How developed can it be? And how much will she suffer knowing how far "behind" she is from everyone else?

His son was trying to do that to himself because he was scared of what his FATHER would think. Deep down Warren likes his wings, so his father can go piss on himself.

Did Warren strike you as completely liking his wings when he was trying to cut them off his back? If he had truly liked his wings, he wouldn't have tried to cut them off. He would have hidden them. He obviously resented them a great deal, even if he knew they were a part of him.

 

[The Guard]

Then you know what would have been great? Actually exploring that and showing it to justify her motivations and actually give her some challenges to her decision so that we may empathize more with what she was going through rather than just being shown time and time again that she wanted to keep Bobby from running away with Kitty.

She shows some of that in her talk with Wolverine.

At this point, you're projecting your own situations and fears on Rogue.

Huh?

When you have to fill in the blanks in order to explain a major character decision, then the writers have failed.

Parodn me? Rogue's arc in these films has been made CRYSTAL CLEAR. She cannot TOUCH anyone without HURTING them. ANYONE. Not just Bobby.

Exactly. These are steps forward in the development of the character, setting up an arc for her. Instead, she ignores all the good she's been able to learn with her "curse", finding pride on her abilities and who she actually is, and reverts back to her self-loathing.

Then the arc was already complete in X2, since she clearly can use her powers for good and has somewhat comes to terms with the situation with Bobby.

Life isn't that simple. Feelings don't always just remain static. What she could deal with around the time of X2 may become unbearable for her around the time of X3.

I doubt she will loathe herself quite as much once her curse, or her reason for being different, is gone. Especially if that loathing is based around not being able to touch people.

 

[josh8]

She's not giving up her gift. She's hiding from it with what is probably a TEMPORTARY solution. So what if the cure wears off?

Here's the other problem, Rogue knows and does have human affection.

I understand why she did what she did, and I think filmmakers are morons for doing it and it was complete and utter stupidity. And as far as the character, it was selfish, and shallow.

There's more to life than being able to touch people. Rogue and Wolverine have a bond and affection that goes beyond any touch.

i agree with a lot of the other stuff that you said but not this one.

it may not be the right message to send out, but i dont think it was moronic to show a character doing something that might be considered selfish or shallow.

in my opinion, it was realistic. the alternative would be for her to overcome and deal with it. however, without touching on what comic rogue would have done, i think movie rogue made a really heartbreaking decision. it wasnt stupid to take the cure. the writers may have executed her progression to her decision weakly, but in the end, i think it was a bold choice.

maybe you think that the warm and fuzzy feeling of satisfaction in knowing that she came to terms with her mutation would have been a smarter move, but i appreciated the realism.

i think A LOT of people in her position would've done the same. there's more to life than touch? yes, unfortunately there's also loneliness.

 

[TheVileOne]

i agree with a lot of the other stuff that you said but not this one.

it may not be the right message to send out, but i dont think it was moronic to show a character doing something that might be considered selfish or shallow.

in my opinion, it was realistic. the alternative would be for her to overcome and deal with it. however, without touching on what comic rogue would have done, i think movie rogue made a really heartbreaking decision. it wasnt stupid to take the cure. the writers may have executed her progression to her decision weakly, but in the end, i think it was a bold choice.

maybe you think that the warm and fuzzy feeling of satisfaction in knowing that she came to terms with her mutation would have been a smarter move, but i appreciated the realism.

i think A LOT of people in her position would've done the same. there's more to life than touch? yes, unfortunately there's also loneliness.

Rogue isn't lonely though.

The way the movie presents it, it looks like she takes the cure so she can keep Kitty from getting Bobby.

 

[josh8]

Rogue isn't lonely though.

The way the movie presents it, it looks like she takes the cure so she can keep Kitty from getting Bobby.

i think she is lonely, and in fact always would be (if she kept her mutation). that's the one thing i think they got right in movie rogue. and if she's not, it doesnt mean that her relationships with logan and bobby will last forever. she has to look at her life in the long run. if she never finds someone that will accept their situation, she could be in for the long haul. some might be able to deal with that. some might not.

i did, however, state that the execution of her progression was weak, but i wasnt disappointed by the outcome.

 

[skruloos]

She shows some of that in her talk with Wolverine.

No. She says it in her talk with Wolverine. She does not show it. Come on, man. You're a screenwriter. You should know that you need to show a character's motivations not talk about it.

Huh?

You're projecting your own made up situations of facing down the protesters and her fight with her conscience. Her getting off the bus and walking into line lasted less than 30 seconds. There was no hesitation in her step. No visible fight with her conscience. You've extrapolated what you wished to see in that scene to support our argument.

Parodn me? Rogue's arc in these films has been made CRYSTAL CLEAR. She cannot TOUCH anyone without HURTING them. ANYONE. Not just Bobby.

That is not an arc. That is a character flaw, a challenge. The character arc is her dealing with that flaw. In the movies, she has been shown to find acceptance with this group of people who have helped her be able to use her powers towards a better goal.

Then the arc was already complete in X2, since she clearly can use her powers for good and has somewhat comes to terms with the situation with Bobby.

Good. Then why take an established arc and then undermine it?

Life isn't that simple. Feelings don't always just remain static. What she could deal with around the time of X2 may become unbearable for her around the time of X3.

Then there should have been scenes showing that feelings changed rather than just talking about it, or rather than focusing on her fear of Bobby running off with Kitty.

I doubt she will loathe herself quite as much once her curse, or her reason for being different, is gone. Especially if that loathing is based around not being able to touch people.

Yes. If only getting rid of your self-loathing were so easy for everyone. Instead of actually accepting who you are and being proud (i.e. the message of the X-Men), let's everyone just take cures so that you may stop hating yourelf. Again, a complete step backward for the character and what's worse, one that is not properly explained or supported by the narrative of the film.

 

[The Guard]

No. She says it in her talk with Wolverine. She does not show it. Come on, man. You're a screenwriter. You should know that you need to show a character's motivations not talk about it.

This is a general rule. Not an absolute one. In the real world, people talk about their problems all the time. Therefore, a scene with Wolverine and Rogue sitting there staring at each other does not work as well as her talking about her issue with him.

You're projecting your own made up situations of facing down the protesters and her fight with her conscience. Her getting off the bus and walking into line lasted less than 30 seconds. There was no hesitation in her step. No visible fight with her conscience. You've extrapolated what you wished to see in that scene to support our argument.

That doesn't mean it wasn't hard for her. I don't really care if it was explicitly "shown". If you think it's "easier" to remain in the status quo than to do that, I don't know what to tell you.

That is not an arc. That is a character flaw, a challenge. The character arc is her dealing with that flaw.

But her arc is clearly based on that. And she has dealt with that flaw. Character arcs aren't always positive or perfect, you know.

In the movies, she has been shown to find acceptance with this group of people who have helped her be able to use her powers towards a better goal.

So? She hasn't found a way to curb her desires, and that conflicts with her situation. Again, this is not about acceptance.

Good. Then why take an established arc and then undermine it?

See, you keep saying things like "undermine", because YOU happen to view what she does negatively. Me, I've seen her whine about her powers for two films. It's nice to see her DO something about the situation.

Yes. If only getting rid of your self-loathing were so easy for everyone.

Sometimes it is. It's as simple as doing something about what plagues you.

Instead of actually accepting who you are and being proud (i.e. the message of the X-Men), let's everyone just take cures so that you may stop hating yourself.

So...you should just ACCEPT and BE PROUD OF a condition that makes you MISERABLE?

Question. What's the worst thing about you? What's your biggest character flaw? What is most wrong with you?

 

[skruloos]

This is a general rule. Not an absolute one. In the real world, people talk about their problems all the time. Therefore, a scene with Wolverine and Rogue sitting there staring at each other does not work as well as her talking about her issue with him.

And movies are not the real world. Movies are a contrivance which means that scenes exist for the sole purpose of adding dimension to a character or propelling the plot forward. In the case of a character making a decision, these scenes are much more important to establish motivations. Because film is a visual medium, talking about it is not enough. That is poor writing. Actions speak much louder than words.

That doesn't mean it wasn't hard for her. I don't really care if it was explicitly "shown". If you think it's "easier" to remain in the status quo than to do that, I don't know what to tell you.

Then you're operating completely under your own assumptions and projections and not really using the text and what is presented. You want to make up your own stuff to fill in the inadequacies of the filmmaker, good for you.

But her arc is clearly based on that. And she has dealt with that flaw. Character arcs aren't always positive or perfect, you know.

Never said it needed to be positive. However, it should be well supported by the narrative and now require people to make stuff up to fill in the blanks.

So? She hasn't found a way to curb her desires, and that conflicts with her situation. Again, this is not about acceptance.

Then the movie needed to focus on that instead of her worrying about Bobby running off with Kitty. Or else they need to tie it together better.

See, you keep saying things like "undermine", because YOU happen to view what she does negatively. Me, I've seen her whine about her powers for two films. It's nice to see her DO something about the situation.

She WAS doing something about it. She was learning to accept it. And I use the term undermine because that's exactly what it does. The arc is set up with a message of acceptance overriding her desires. This film undermines that because instead of choosing acceptig herself, she reverts back to what she was like in X1. That is a negative trajectory.

Sometimes it is. It's as simple as doing something about what plagues you.

Yes. She was doing something about it. She was learning to find pride in herself.

So...you should just ACCEPT and BE PROUD OF a condition that makes you MISERABLE?

Question. What's the worst thing about you? What's your biggest character flaw? What is most wrong with you?

This is not about me or you so I have no idea why your arguments always try to go back to what you or I would do in a given situation. It is about what a character who has been put in contrived situations would do and what has been set up by writers. I am not projecting any of my personal feelings on this matter and going solely by what the writers and the directors have shown us. I suggest you do the same.

 

[Wolverazio]

So what? The cure is not a guarantee obviously. Her choice was a selfish and shallow one. Rogue would've ultimately realized that it was wrong and gone to Alcatraz to help the X-men.

Obviously she wouldn't of ultimately realized it was wrong because...ta-da, she took the cure.

But let's use another example and see if it stands to the test of time. In the utlimates, there is a mutant who is like Omega Red (with death spores) but a thousand times more potent and powerful. He wipes out his hometown in a matter of hours.

His power is too much to control and the only one that can get to him is Wolverine (because of the healing factor).

Is it shallow and selfish if this kid, who is a walking plague and can never learn to control his powers because he kills too many people in the process wants the cure?

Yes it does. It makes it a bad storyline because people actually THINK it's ok. It's ok that Rogue took something that was a symbol of hatred and prejudice AGAINST HER! Something that might only be temporary.

How does she cure herself if the cure wears off? Does she commit suicide? If not, sooner or later she's going to have to solve her problems without going for some stupid answer.

I also didn't buy her reasoning for taking it at all. She can't have sex? Join the club woman.

You're also projecting hatred on the scientist. Does Warren the II fear mutants? Yeah because their different, most people are afraid of anything that contradicts with their idea of "normalcy." But he's not the one that weaponized it, he's not the one that suggested all mutants should be forced to take it. His was a completely voluntary process for mutants that wanted it.

How does that make him hate mutants? Sure he was ignorant (wanting to force it on his son) but he didn't have them throw a syringe at him or really try to stop him. He was a flawed being but he was not a Stryker or Gyrich-esque character that wanted all mutants destroyed.

And to call something shallow is by definition to project your personal feelings on it becase you are assuming you know all of her motivations (even though she clearly stated something contradictory to your assumptions, very few films that are ensemble pieces have internal dialogue after all) and that your judgment of her reasons are valid.

I see nothing shallow about her decision. Short sighted, perhaps, but not shallow. But you feel that your judgments are more valid than mine, therefore, they are shallow no questions asked (and before someone turns it around, just look back to who introduced the "shallow" aspect of the argument).

 

[Angelus7181]

Comic/Animated Rogue..

Movie Rogue ( so far )..

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

Over think stuff much? Rogue couldn't be at the final battle cause then Wolverine couldn't say he was the only one able to stop Jean.As has been pointed out if Rogue was there all she had to do was borrow Wolverine's power an Jean would have been saved an the ending wouldn't have had anywhere near as much impact.


Mek

 

[skruloos]

Howdy

Over think stuff much? Rogue couldn't be at the final battle cause then Wolverine couldn't say he was the only one able to stop Jean.As has been pointed out if Rogue was there all she had to do was borrow Wolverine's power an Jean would have been saved an the ending wouldn't have had anywhere near as much impact.


Mek

Not necessarily. Rogue might have been taken out too or ran away like the other X-Men, trusting Wolverine to do what he needed. And it's obvious that Rogue doesn't keep their powers for very long. She would need to be in constant contact with Wolverine. And even then, Phoenix probably would not let her get as close as Logan did. And even, in that slight instance, where she might be able to get close, she could only steal Logan's healing factor. She might develop the bone claws but she certainly wouldn't have the adamantium necessary to be able to withstand the demolecularization to stab Jean.

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

She didn't need to stab Jean she just needed to touch her.It's an ending I wished for way back.Jean's mutation is way out of control but the one person who can bring it back down to a controlable level was at the clinic getting "cured".It's the same that has happened in 2 of the movies so far.Control the situation by taking out the mutant that could make the story much less then it is.Prof X was in a convient coma in 1.X-2 didn't really have a cure all mutant cause the storyline was fairly vast.I could very well see Rogue showing up here absorbing Wolverine asking colluosus for a fastball special just to get close to Jean an the ending is much much different.I wasn't paid millions to direct so we get Ratner's ending.

Mek

 

[skruloos]

Howdy

She didn't need to stab Jean she just needed to touch her.It's an ending I wished for way back.Jean's mutation is way out of control but the one person who can bring it back down to a controlable level was at the clinic getting "cured".It's the same that has happened in 2 of the movies so far.Control the situation by taking out the mutant that could make the story much less then it is.Prof X was in a convient coma in 1.X-2 didn't really have a cure all mutant cause the storyline was fairly vast.I could very well see Rogue showing up here absorbing Wolverine asking colluosus for a fastball special just to get close to Jean an the ending is much much different.I was paid millions to direct so we get Ratner's ending.

Mek

Problem is...do we know how the power would have affected Rogue? As said at the end of X1, Rogue took on the personality traits of Logan for a while. Would Rogue be able to deal with the Phoenix power? She has no psychic barriers set up in her mind to cage all that power either. Who knows how she would react?

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

Well she also has the ability to take over the knowledge of how to use the power.It's displayed in the porch scene when she absorbs Pyro's power an shuts off the fires.It would have just served to get control of Jean so she's not atomizein everyone in her way.

Mek

 

[skruloos]

Howdy

Well she also has the ability to take over the knowledge of how to use the power.It's displayed in the porch scene when she absorbs Pyro's power an shuts off the fires.It would have just served to get control of Jean so she's not atomizein everyone in her way.

Mek

Yes. The problem is that Jean does not know how to control the power. So how would Rogue be able to figure it out? You take a big risk there as Rogue might just absorb the Phoenix power and have it take over her psyche. Sure, she knows how to stop the demolecularization but would she be able to handle the Phoenix identity in her head?

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

She's able to handle a double dose of Wolverine,Magneto,Pyro,Bobby.She doesn't get overloaded till way late in the comics where she starts bringing em all back.I think she could have amped down Phoenix to the point Jean could regain control just by the fact Jean had enough control to allow Wolverine to kill her.

Mek

 

[skruloos]

Howdy

She's able to handle a double dose of Wolverine,Magneto,Pyro,Bobby.She doesn't get overloaded till way late in the comics where she starts bringing em all back.I think she could have amped down Phoenix to the point Jean could regain control just by the fact Jean had enough control to allow Wolverine to kill her.

Mek

Yes. But it is also stated that Jean's power is way above any other mutants. What leads you to believe that this person who has never had experience with pyschic force would be able to deal with the full blown Phoenix?

 

[X-Maniac]

Rogue did exactly what the movie version of Rogue (as set up by Singer in two movies) would have done.

I asked a friend who didn't know the comics, and he felt her story seemed logical and perfectly acceptable.

Fans of the comicbook character are never going to like what happened. I can understand that. Her character is massively different from most of the comicbook versions.

 

[skruloos]

Rogue did exactly what the movie version of Rogue (as set up by Singer in two movies) would have done.

Based on what evidence?

 

[X-Maniac]

Based on what evidence?

Based on the previous two movies.

In a deleted scene for X1 (on the DVD), she even actually asks Storm if she can be cured...

So, therefore, she doesn't want her powers. And when she meets Bobby and can't be close to him, it's even more of an issue.

X3 built on that and brought it to a natural conclusion for the movie version of the character. It wasn't the only option, but it was an option that fitted the character.

Even without that deleted scene, it's quite clear that her powers are not an advantage for normal life. As she says in X3, she is unable to give a hug, handshake or kiss to anyone, let alone be with her boyfriend. It makes sense within the movie world.