Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[Herr Logan]

http://www.canmag.com/news/4/3/2952

Herr Logan let me what you think about this?

I read this sometime in the last few days on the Hype, and I was disgusted.

These are the first things that come to mind: cutting Cyclops out of another movie (whether he's dead or just offscreen, it's unforgivable as a concept), Professor X dying, Iceman not "icing up" (unforgivable and inexcusable), Iceman having a thing with Kitty Pryde (although him having a thing with Rogue was already bad enough), Colossus being bisexual with a crush on Wolverine, and Juggernaut being a mutant that willingly follows Magneto.

Obviously, the latter three points are straight from 'Ultimate X-Men,' which is somehow even worse than if they had just made up their own ways of bastardizing those characters. Juggernaut isn't a mutant and does not sympathize with pro-mutant causes. He has only three real goals in life: to get money, to hurt or kill his step-brother, and to keep his one friend in the world (Black Tom Cassidy) safe. He is not a friend or associate of Magneto's, never has been, and was never meant to be. As for Colossus, if he had been bisexual in the real X-Men universe, then of course he should be bisexual in a movie, but that was never the case. That's 'Ultimate' bull$hit leaking in, and it's unacceptable. Colossus was/is involved with Kitty Pride, and Kitty Pryde has never been romantically involved with Iceman. Neither was Rogue, God dammit, despite Drake's little crush on her right before the whole "Onslaught" debacle. And the very idea of Iceman not actually "icing up" is unthinkable. Hell, even the worthless 'Ultimate' version does that much. Maybe if they didn't cram so many extraneous mutants in this movie, they'd have enough money left to frost their little Iceboy up proper-like, but why should they get even one thing right in this crap-fest? There are countless other failures I have feelings on, but I won't go through them all right now.

I realize full well that most of those rumors are unconfirmed and may not come to pass, but I'm going to assume the worst, as usual, and I'm actually hoping that all of this is true. Just like with the upcoming Spider-Man film, the further they stray from not only faithful content but also tasteful and quality filmmaking, the easier it is to tell a pro-studio sycophant that they wouldn't know a true Marvel superhero story if I personally shoved it three feet up their ass and lectured them for five hours on the existential significance of what I'd just done. No more wishy washy crap. You either want an intelligently and skillfully made movie that represents its source material or you don't, and no amount of shallow cliches is going to change the fact that more than half of the vocal fans of these movies are morons and sheep (that doesn't include you guys; you're the freaks in all this, and I love you for it). They can enjoy this crap all they want, and so can you, but nobody tells me that any of it is "deep," "realistic" or "faithful" without getting verbally b1tch-slapped and spit on. *deep breath*

I want to reiterate that I am no longer personally invested in any of the Marvel films franchises, the upcoming Superman franchise, and possibly the Batman one if the next Bat-flick doesn't excruciatingly adhere to the tone and content of a typical, modern Batman story.
I have almost completely given up on the Marvel Entertainment Group as a whole (the comics have become even worse than the movies), and I wouldn't believe for one second that there was anything in either of the upcoming X-Men or Spider-Man films that could redeem it. Yeah, I freely admit I'm going to watch those upcoming movies, and in the theater, too. I also watched 'Underworld: Evolution' a few days ago, all by myself in the middle of the day. I watch things that I have an interest in being able to properly dissect and critique and/or that which gives me ideas for more worthy presentations. It doesn't make what I say any less correct, and it doesn't make the producers a whole hell of a lot richer, either. Most people who see these movies four or five times don't put any analytical thought into what they're watching, much less a disgruntled viewer who only pays to see it once. They're getting rich no matter what, and I know they could get even richer if they would just do it right, not to mention how it could actually set a precendent where a superhero movie is considered a conceptually complex and well-developed piece of art instead of popcorn trash that has a few good action scenes.
Also, even though I'm not counting on any of this stuff to turn out right, I still have a right to free speech (dwindling though it is), the world is still full of liars, needless failures and people who won't admit it, and I'm going to complain about all of it as much as I God damn well please.

Rant over, for now.

By the way, how's it going, BHK?

 

[Herr Logan]

Actually, my idea of the perfect X-Men game would be something in the X-Com/Jagged Alliance mold. You'd play as Professor X, giving your X-Men commands through psychic instructions (in multiplayer, these commands could be jammed by certain powers, leaving the mutants to go about their own initiatives). Like X-Com, you'd build up a base with stuff like the Danger Room, Cerebro, and whatnot.

Actual combat would be more like JA (because I love JA like McAdams loves Gosling... Gosling... Gosling) where the characters would have personality conflicts and make comments to you. If you put Cyclops and Wolverine on the same team, there's going to be fireworks. If you put Gambit and Rogue on a team and Gambit gets hurt, Rogue's going to go nuts. And if you put Colossus and Wolverine on a team together, they can do a Fastball Special. Stuff like that. The X-Men can at times ignore your commands, like if Wolverine goes into a berserker rage. And God help you if you put Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean Grey, and Emma Frost all on the same team.

The missions themselves would be varied and designed rather than of the randomized variety. You might find yourself trying to stop a rampage by Juggernaut, having to choose between matching power for power with a team of Beast, Colossus, and others; or using stealth with characters like Nightcrawler, Gambit, and Wolverine to try and disable his helmet and take him out with a psychic attacks.

As for the plot: in addition to "random encouters" with one-off petty villains like Juggernaut or Proteus, the main narrative would be the X-Men versus the Brotherhood. In the final fight with Magneto, Erik manages to kill Jean Gray, who comes back as Phoenix. The Hellfire Club bends her to their power, then manipulates the government into sending Sentinels after the X-Men (cue an escape through the mansion as the headquarters you lovingly designed gets blown to ****). The X-Men then team up with Magneto to strike back at the Hellfire Club. The final fight is between the X-Men and Dark Phoenix, with teases of a sequel with the Shi'ar Empire and the Brood.

Let me say first that I've never played either of those games, so I have no coherent vision of what you're talking about.

The first part with Professor X giving psychic commands, would that be sort of like a strategy game set-up (a type of game I never really play because I suck)? Is it like directing several "armies of one" to take out of protect from different threats? Describe for me, if you will.

Is the combat part like a traditional role playing game?

 

[SoulManX]

Brother Herr I give up on Marvel when I found that Spider- Man TAS was for selling toys. Marvel and DC truly don't care for the heroes that make them millions. The fans are just like zombies and really don't care. I am losing all respect for comic book companies. DC is on my **** list for messing with JLU and created that bastard The Batman.

 

[SoulManX]

Brother Herr I gave up on Marvel when I found out that Spider- Man TAS was for selling toys. Marvel and DC truly don't care for the heroes that make them millions. The fans are just like zombies and really don't care. I am losing all respect for comic book companies. DC is on my **** list for messing with JLU and created that bastard The Batman.

 

[Zev]

Let me say first that I've never played either of those games, so I have no coherent vision of what you're talking about.

The first part with Professor X giving psychic commands, would that be sort of like a strategy game set-up (a type of game I never really play because I suck)? Is it like directing several "armies of one" to take out of protect from different threats? Describe for me, if you will.

Is the combat part like a traditional role playing game?

Well, think like Shining Force or Final Fantasy Tactics. Every character has a certain amount of moves, you direct them, then it's the other guy's turn.

 

[SoulManX]

Sorry for the double post

 

[Herr Logan]

Brother Herr I gave up on Marvel when I found out that Spider- Man TAS was for selling toys. Marvel and DC truly don't care for the heroes that make them millions. The fans are just like zombies and really don't care. I am losing all respect for comic book companies. DC is on my **** list for messing with JLU and created that bastard The Batman.

Amen, Sir BlackHard.

I don't have much of an opinion on 'Spider-Man: TAS' being all about the toys (I suppose I do feel a little bit used, since I bought a few back in the day ). I am, however, furious that they made 'The Batman' (a show that was unquestionably created primarily to sell toys) when they already had a perfectly good representation of the Dark Knight floating around in the DC animated universe. If they wanted a show focused on the Batman, they should have simply resurrected 'Batman: TAS', or whatever the hell they want to call it. Kevin Conroy is the definitive representation of the Batman, period. As much as I prefer the original TAS over 'The New Batman Adventures' and 'Justice League,' the latter two shows have the Batman behaving the closest to the Batman of the last 7 years (at the very least) as any other representation. I suppose I should qualify that and say that the Batman in those shows acts the way he does in the comic with respect to other characters in his line of work, not necessarily solo (since he pretty much was never solo on either series). Anyway, I'm totally against the bastardization of the Batman and his rogues on 'The Batman.'

As for Marvel Comics, thank God for the Essentials. That and other TPBs of classic stories are all that's left of a dignified and creative Marvel Universe.

Sorry for the double post

I'm forgive you. This time...

By the way, I gather from your signature and profile info that you attend Duke. I'm attending the University of Maryland, a school that seems to harbor a burning hatred for you and your kind. I couldn't care less about sports (although I do find the slogan "Fear the Turtle" pretty hilarious) or school spirit, so I don't care. Just thought I'd mention it. Some of the students here are completely rabid and, as I said, they hate your school's sports players like they'd hate their own family at a stressful Thankgiving dinner. Isn't that obscenely moronic?

 

[Herr Logan]

Well, think like Shining Force or Final Fantasy Tactics. Every character has a certain amount of moves, you direct them, then it's the other guy's turn.

I hate that gaming format with a burning passion.

Still, obviously you like it and others here may as well, so while I can't really add much with regard to that idea, you are welcome and encouraged to elaborate as you see fit. Thanks for posting, Zev.

 

[Abaddon]

Canmag is incredibly unreliable,so I wouldnt think too much of those rumors.

 

[Abaddon]

I bought you a treat.

http://www.retrojunk.com/details_theme/635/

 

[Herr Logan]

Canmag is incredibly unreliable,so I wouldnt think too much of those rumors.

Those are my thoughts on the possibility that those rumors are true, and also on the fact that I wouldn't put it past these incompetent sell-outs to make any one of those horrific choices. I'm already sure that Kitty Pryde is going to come between Bobby and Rogue, and that Bobby isn't going to "ice up."

 

[Herr Logan]

I bought you a treat.

http://www.retrojunk.com/details_theme/635/

What a great birthday present! Thanks Abaddon!

 

[batman44]

Brother Herr I gave up on Marvel when I found out that Spider- Man TAS was for selling toys. Marvel and DC truly don't care for the heroes that make them millions. The fans are just like zombies and really don't care. I am losing all respect for comic book companies. DC is on my **** list for messing with JLU and created that bastard The Batman.

While I understand what you are saying (The Batman sucks really bad), I don't thnk you an fully blame DC or at all for "The Batman" because WB basically controls them as far as Tv and movies go. (WB lets DC do what they want in comics)

 

[SoulManX]

While I understand what you are saying (The Batman sucks really bad), I don't thnk you an fully blame DC or at all for "The Batman" because WB basically controls them as far as Tv and movies go. (WB lets DC do what they want in comics)

I know I just wish DC would grow some balls. Fight that great fight for their product.

 

[Herr Logan]

While I understand what you are saying (The Batman sucks really bad), I don't thnk you an fully blame DC or at all for "The Batman" because WB basically controls them as far as Tv and movies go. (WB lets DC do what they want in comics)

Good point, and welcome to the Haven.

I know I just wish DC would grow some balls. Fight that great fight for their product.

Amen, brother.

I'd say the same about Marvel Comics, but they've been doing worse things with the comics themselves in recent years than their other-media productions. No one has any God damn shame anymore!

 

[batman44]

I know I just wish DC would grow some balls. Fight that great fight for their product.

Now that I can agree on.

 

[Zev]

A random quote from Frank Miller.

Q: Essentially, what is your take on continuity?

FRANK MILLER: Continuity is the hobgoblin of small minds.

But Elektra is still dead.

 

[SoulManX]

A random quote from Frank Miller.

Well then call me the Hobgoblin

 

[Herr Logan]

A random quote from Frank Miller.

In that case, Miller is a disrespectful bastard in addition to being an overrated egotist.

 

[Zev]

In that case, Miller is a disrespectful bastard in addition to being an overrated egotist.

Yeah, but I can't help but thinking that guys like him and Bryne and all the rest add spice to the whole industry. What would the Hype be without Liefeld to kick around or Austen to relentlessly hate? Sometimes I think we need those guys, just so we can debate whether they really are as racist/misogynistic/homophobic as they come across. Now, I'm not saying I'd like JMS better if he started insisting that Spider-Man only drank Maxwell's Coffee and anyone who depicted him as drinking Folger's was a heretic to the Dikto tradition... but it couldn't hurt.

 

[Cullen]

I think breeches in continuity are acceptable if and only if the story is first rate and/or better than the story or stories that it is diverging from. I also think only major breeches should be frowned on and minor ones should be over looked.

I can think of examples, but unfortunately the only ones that are coming up for me right now are Doctor Who related, and that's not the common tounge around these parts. If needed, however, I will try to rise to the occasion.

 

[Herr Logan]

Yeah, but I can't help but thinking that guys like him and Bryne and all the rest add spice to the whole industry. What would the Hype be without Liefeld to kick around or Austen to relentlessly hate? Sometimes I think we need those guys, just so we can debate whether they really are as racist/misogynistic/homophobic as they come across. Now, I'm not saying I'd like JMS better if he started insisting that Spider-Man only drank Maxwell's Coffee and anyone who depicted him as drinking Folger's was a heretic to the Dikto tradition... but it couldn't hurt.

Good observation, Zev.

 

[Herr Logan]

X-Men video game continued:

Jean Grey, who could be codenamed Phoenix in this game, has telepathy and telekinesis. Her telekinesis affords her the ability to manipulate the environment in a variety of ways. If anyone here has played ‘Psi-Ops,’ ‘Destroy All Humans’ or ‘Second Sight,’ you know how manipulative telekinesis this has already been utilized in video games. The same basic system is in play here. Jean can lock onto any tractable object and move it in three dimensions. She can also activate electronic devices, flip switches and shake planted objects like trees or flagpoles (to distract people or to shake enemies off their perches). “Tractable objects” includes living beings (friend, foe or otherwise) and weapons. Jean should probably have an extreme slow-motion mode for her telekinesis, since there will be usually about at least a dozen movable objects in her field of view at any given time, thus making it difficult to target-cycle through all objects until reaching the desired one in a timely fashion. This will also make it much easier to target a foe’s weapon rather than the foe himself calmly. In addition, Jean can set a “holding pattern” for lifted objects; she can levitate something and hold it in the air, which would be very useful for when immense objects fall down where people or other precious objects are. You would probably go to a menu option or use the power select function on the controller, or even Jean’s interact menu if that would be simple enough.
Jean can also use her TK in the form of offensive projectiles and defensive force fields. Her personal force field can be summoned by just pressing and holding the “defense” command button, which would cause most other characters simply take a blocking stance. She can create force fields around other people, too, and several at the same time. She can even manipulate objects while holding a force field, and maybe even protect herself and someone else while holding something up in the air. This is a hell of a lot to juggle at once, even with the ability to set automatic functions like force fields and holding patterns, so the main limitation would be concentration. There would be some kind of system of “concentration gauges,” where you can only keep performing certain actions for so long until you give out. This is somewhat how it’s done in ‘Second Sight,’ and probably countless other games. It would be a complex but hopefully usable system that would allow the player to simulate “realistically” what it would be like to have Jean Grey’s powers. Her TK also allows her flight/levitation, but she doesn’t propel herself through the air as quickly as Storm or Rogue can.
Phoenix’s telepathy can also be used in a few different ways. She can communicate with members of her team without speaking aloud and pass on messages between team members. I want there to be a dynamic with the A.I. where formidable enemies that hear you giving your teammates important commands will be slightly better at attempting to interfere or intercept the responding members, so if you can relay the message telepathically, then they will have to respond only to what they see happening (unless the enemies themselves are telepathic). One of the other most important functions of Jean’s telepathy is that she can read the minds of others (foes and other relevant parties in missions), which can tell her what their intentions are, valuable information like the goals of the people for which the mind-scanned subject is working, and just generally what they are thinking about. If anyone here has played, ‘Destroy All Humans,’ you’ve seen how this sort of thing works. Jean Grey also has the ability to project her astral form, a function has been used in ‘Second Sight’ and similarly in ‘Psi-Ops’ (although that was first-person “remote viewing,” which made it so you couldn’t see an astral body), which allows her to explore now areas that are not psi-shielded. It’s psychic reconnaissance, basically, and it could be very helpful, although Jean’s body will be defenseless while projecting herself astrally, so you’ll have to find either an extremely safe spot in which to do this or have one or more X-Men guard her body for the duration. Jean can also engage other powerful telepaths in psychic combat on the astral plane. In that instance, you definitely need a teammate to protect you, although time moves very differently on the astral plane (it puts the “real world” on a sort of extreme-extreme-slow motion mode, since it’s all happening at the speed of thought), so it depends how long you take to beat your opponent. Still, the kind of enemies the X-Men face have the power to hurt Jean within that limited a timeframe and a simple bullet can get you while you fight psychics on the astral plane for a few minutes. It’s best to cover your bases. Okay, now onto mind control; Jean can give a range of commands to a subject who has weak or no psychic defenses, and she can even outright “possess” someone else and move around and act within their body. For the possession, you’d want at least one X-Man to protect Jean until she’s back in her own body and in a position to protect herself. Lastly (unless I think of more powers for Jean later on), she has the ability to automatically sense the presence of other people and to determine the emotional state or attitudes toward her or the X-Men (ex. “Someone in that room is scared,” “I sense hostility nearby”). This helps when you’re tracking someone and haven’t found your quarry with a remote viewing scan, and acts as a defensive measure.
Phoenix’s basic talents include durability (when using force fields), energy projection, flight, psychic ability and sensory. I realize my description makes Jean Grey the most powerful and versatile X-Man, and that’s how it is in the comics, even without the actual “Phoenix Force.” She is also the most complicated character to use in the game, I would think.



I've gone back and edited and somewhat reformatted my earlier segments on this subject. Go back and take a look, because there is new content.

And please, do post comments if you have them. What do you think of:

• Cyclops' guided ricochet shot?
• Rogue's stolen memories distracting her in flashes?
• Wolverine's complex sensory system?
• Storm being able to change low-speed wind direction?
• Jean Grey's assortment and system of powers?
• Anything about the way the game is set up?

And Zev, I want to reiterate that you're welcome to post your ideas on how you would do an X-Men game, even if I personally think the format you mentioned earlier is an evil abomination. Seriously, it's fine.

 

[Abaddon]

I mustve not been paying attention but whats the premise of the game?

 

[Herr Logan]

I mustve not been paying attention but whats the premise of the game?

Premise? Read the little blurb at the top of any X-Men comic!! Children of the atom... born with special powers that set them apart from humanity... sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them!!

*achem*

If by "premise" you mean "plot," I haven't actually written one yet. It should be a blend of evil mutants, panicky humans and mutant-hunting robots in various sizes and flavors. If you have ideas on that, feel free to post them.