Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

Herr Logan said:
You've broken a thousand! Congrats!

Heh heh heh... your weeping always amuses me. I'd send you a box of tissues as a 1k-Post present if I knew where you lived. I'd also be able to do something about it the next time you infuriated me, if I knew where you lived. :)

:wolverine
Well there are reasons why I'm constantly on the move... ;):D
 
Herr Logan said:
Grampa! :D

For a second, I though you'd directed me to a collection of Tijuana Bibles. :o

:wolverine

No, that would be your long-lost grandmother.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but you really shouldn't give me openings like that.
 
Zev said:
No, that would be your long-lost grandmother.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but you really shouldn't give me openings like that.

Oh, sure, blame the victim of your cruel little jokes! :(

:wolverine
 
Sweet Jesus swinging from a chandalier... it's Hunter Rider's birthday!!


Happy Birthday, you ol' horn-dawg!! :)

:wolverine
 
Personally, I blame society. Stupid society...
 
Herr Logan said:
How am I supposed to tear you a new one when you keep me waiting? :mad:

Only I'm allowed to go for days without following up on my proclaimations of forthcoming writings. :o

:wolverine

Forgiveness, please!

It needs to polished. At the moment, the core plot/idea/narrative is there, in some good detail, but not detailed enough to be posted. It is pending, and will not take too long to be finished hopefully, until then, I ask you not to expect anything utterly-fantastic, lest you become enraged at my effort when you read it, and unsheathe you adamantium steel..
 
Zaphod said:
Forgiveness, please!

It needs to polished. At the moment, the core plot/idea/narrative is there, in some good detail, but not detailed enough to be posted. It is pending, and will not take too long to be finished hopefully, until then, I ask you not to expect anything utterly-fantastic, lest you become enraged at my effort when you read it, and unsheathe you adamantium steel..

Inexcusable! But since you cowered before me so respectfully, I'll withhold my wrath for the time being.

And by "withhold," I do mean displace. Someone else will feel the wrath for now.

Zev, let's talk about those pictures... :mad:

:wolverine
 
Ok, here it is, regardless of what I said about witholding it until it's final form in my last post. This is the (very) unfinished draft of just under half of the script summary. It appears long in typed up form, but naturally, it would be alot different should it be edited together in this imaginary film of mine, so think in those terms. It isnt finished, since the rest simply wasn't good enough to type up in my view, but what you have here I'm fairly happy with, happy enough to share for now at least. When it comes to typing the whole thing, completed, polished and ready, I will have redone this whole section to read nice and flow nicer as a narrative. But for now, here you are...


First Act:
Set in High-School, Peter is once again the nerd-loser archetype, picked on by the in-crowd who consist of arrogant jock Flash Thompson, and the well-to do Harry Osborn. It is clear however that it is only at Flash's encouragement that Harry reluctantly involves himself in the bullying, just as Liz secretly holds a crush for Pete, seemingly attracted to his intellect. Likewise, Pete has a minor crush on Flash's girlfriend, appearing to be truly the only one to understand that Liz does not really want to be with Flash. Peter finds solace in Science, as well as gaining exemplary marks in school, in physics and chemistry, Pete has a fully functioning homemade lab in his bedroom, and where he conducts minor experiments outside of his academic career.

Now to Harry, the rich kid, son to up-and-coming industrialist Norman Osborne, owner of Oscorpe, a multi-million dollar industry, specializing in cutting edge Science. Norman however has his fingers in many dirty little pies, the least of which isn’t his involvement in warfare manufacture. In this area, we catch brief glimpses of battle amour suits and prototype, in-development aerial-gliders. Norman Osborne is seen as cold, calculating, cerebral and interested in only money, his company and his son’s success in the financial field. We see that through Norman’s cold and careless treatment of his son, Harry's resulting behavior towards Peter is increased.

Back at home with the loving Aunt May and avuncular and charming Uncle Ben, Peter lives out his life, usually tucked away in his room, working on experiments, or helping out his Uncle keep the homestead together, painting the fence, fixing the roof, that kind of stuff. One morning, when Pete wakes for school, he notices a beautiful redheaded girl moving in next door, she is carrying in boxes. She is stunning, angelic, foxy and completely unobtainable to Pete, who is completely blown away by her mere presence. Aunt May says she is niece to Aunt Anna, the next-door neighbor and is moving in to live with her after having left her abusive and mistreating Father. Pete also learns that she will be new at attending Pete's school, apparently pursuing a Drama course. Pete thinks he may have found a kindred spirit in Mary Jane, although he is still scared-stiff of the notion in even trying to pursue her, he believes that they share something in common in their similar family set-ups.

Back at school, Pete is going about his regular routine, dodging the name calling that he all to often has to endure, picking out the bits of rolled up paper that gets spat into his hair, the regular bullying. Sitting down to class, he begins to warrant some surprising attention from Liz, the girl he has always had a minor crush on. Liz flirts with Peter, at first asking him for some extra tuition, but it is all over to soon, when Liz's boyfriend, Flash, notices Pete, and takes it as a move-in on his girl. Flash proceeds to roll up his sleeves to defend his machismo honor ("Hitting on my girl, huh Parker!?") that sort of thing. Pete reluctantly obliges for a round of fisticuffs, but only because he notices MJ looking on at the brewing conflict from across the class, Pete is so desperate to prove he can hold his own to this girl, and to impress her, somehow, that he engages in a fight with Flash. Feigning a confidence he does not at all feel. He. Gets. OWNED! Pete gets a bloodied nose and black eye for his troubles, right in front of MJ, Liz, and the entire Science block. The ultimate embarrassment.

Pete is nursing his wounds outside the school, alone, when someone sits down next to him. It's MJ! Pete's immediate reaction is to run away, or expect a verbal onslaught similar to what Flash regularly bombard Pete with. Instead, she is kind, humouress, and encouraging. She tells Pete that she knows she moved in next door to him and his Aunt and Uncle, and that he was trying to impress her back at the school. She offers him advice, saying that he only needs to be himself, and do what he wants to do in life, whether some think his nerdish for it or not. These words encourage Pete to give up the attempt at putting on a 'dashing' pretense, and go back to being himself. He decides to attend an out of school science symposium on the way home, still on the high of having his geek-lifestyle validated by the new hottie in school!

At the Science-symposium, Pete watches on in a crowd of like-minded people, as the Professor demonstrates a radiation experiment of some kind. Prying from his backpack his camera, he snaps photos of the experiment, all the while, a tiny, tinny little spider has been doused with radiation from the experiment, (and in a very similar fashion to SM-1) the spider descends by web onto Pete's hand as he snaps the photos. Someone calls out to stop taking photo's, Pete stops, apologizes, and then the spider BITES! Pete drops the camera in the immediate pain he feels as a result, smashing the lens, and he observes the bite on his hand. Immediately feeling a little odd and embarrassed, Pete picks up his camera and hastily makes off from the symposium.

Back to Harry, he arrives home at his house from school, not the lab that we were introduced to last time. The house is much similar to the one we saw in SM-1, Normans home would make even the finest most expensive penthouse sweet ashamed. When Harry arrives home, he finds Norman in his office, having a meeting with someone. Harry doesn’t know who it is, although he recognizes him vaguely. The man his father is speaking to is stout, has a bowel haircut, and is perhaps the epitome of a fat, aging geek. His name is Dr Otto Octavius, renowned scientist and experimenter of the new, cutting edge Smart Arms (yeah, I borrowed the name from SM-2). Norman is meeting with Otto to attempt a contractual agreement allowing them both to work together. In reality, Norman wants to buy-out Otto's invention, and couldn't care less about 'a meeting of the minds'. Norman introduced Harry to Dr Octavius, and Harry is particular unimpressed, resulting in nasty scolding from his Father. Here we also see the first signs of how particularly nasty and unpleasant Octavius is, through and through. He speaks rudely of Harry's privileged upbringing, and compares it to his own, abusive childhood. Otto is rude, obnoxious, bitter and arrogant, as well as caring for next to nothing but his work. Harry remembers that Peter is a particular fan of Otto's reported work, and that’s how he remembers him.

Meanwhile, Pete is struggling to make his way home, he feels...different. Almost reborn. Something has been born in him, a power, a gift. On the way home, he stops while crossing the road, puts his hand to his head and feels a fever, failing to see the oncoming bus, which is hurtling at deadly speed towards him. Suddenly, something in his subconscious alerts him, a type of…”sense”, he immediately and instinctively leaps out of harms way...and lands attached to the side of a building six stories up! He is climbing a wall! He can’t believe it. He gets to the top, and discovers he can leap fantastic heights, climb some more, sense stuff, jump, and climb again! Amazing! It takes little time in the knowledge of such powers that the Spider bite must have been a gift in disguise. On the way home, Pete takes the city top route, leaping, jumping and crawling over the buildings of New York, until he notices something…Flash Thompson is driving home with Liz, in his top-down car, Pete can hear him bragging about beating on Peter, and although Liz looks particularly unimpressed, Pete begins to think of his potential now as a fighter with his new powers! Putting the thought on hold for now, Pete drops down into a nearby alley, and plans to continue home, until he is forced to stop and look at a poster, tacked to a wall, advertising something. Amateur talent needed, it reads, advertising for any amateur wrestlers/fighters who feel confident enough to step into the ring with some of the best muscle New York has to offer. Pete gets an idea…?

END OF ACT ONE:


Second Act:

These scenes are inter-spliced. Almost like an extended montage.

Back to Otto Octavius, who is hard at work in his lab (at an undisclosed location at this point). He is moving through the lab, with a cocky and unsurpassable arrogance. His assistances and advisors read out the safely precautions to him, concerning his experiments, and he simply throws it back in their faces, caring not for his own or anybody’s safety. Strapping himself into his tentacle arms, Octavius proceeds to delicately, gently, and carefully maneuver them by use of the touch-sensitive control panel that controls the arms on a computer terminal. In one scene, Otto becomes so fed up with his assistant’s insistence on safety and protocol that he uses one of the arms to thrash out and grab the scientist’s wrist, breaking it, as a warning.

Back at the Parker household, Peter is hard at work in his room. He is tinkering with some sort of contraption at his workstation. The device is a pair of wrist attachments, which Pete has engineered to shoot a strong, sticky web like substance, for use in concordance with his newly gifted powers. The web shooters just like a spiders!

Scene of Otto Octavius, we see him get a lot more skilled with his tentacle arms. He starts to mix chemicals using his tentacles in the lab, we see the brilliance of his mind as he uses his tentacles to jot down formulas of unimaginable complexity on the blackboard, he scolds and humiliates his associates for not understanding, as he knocks the papers and notes from their grasp in frustration. We see Octavius sitting in a chair, smoking a cigar, in the other hand, he is drawing an eye patch and vampire fangs on a picture of Einstein.

Parker’s room, we see him cutting up fabrics, throwing different clothes together, painting symbols shirts, stitching. Creating for himself some sort of costume.

We end the montage on Peter putting the finishing touches to his costume in his bedroom, when he notices in the window across from his, next door, Mary Jane, sitting on her bed. The sight of her beauty distracts Pete, but then he see’s that she is crying. Pete stops what he is doing and takes notice. He tries to stay out of sight, until the sound of her phone ringing makes him jump. MJ composes herself and answers the phone, it’s a friend from school, and from the complete change of tone in her voice and demeanor, and you’d think she was a different person. She is chatting away like any other girl, laughing, gossiping. Peter notices her turn to the window and he quickly shuts the curtains. It isn’t long before there is a knock on the door, and Peter, hurriedly concealing his devices and newly tailored garb, greets his Uncle into the room. Uncle Ben wants to speak to Peter about the fight he got into with Flash Thompson at school. Uncle Ben tells Pete of power, responsibility, and gives him those wise words, which have become gospel in Spider Man folklore.

The next day at School, Peter learns of Dr Otto Octavius planned experiment, for those who will be graduating to Empire State University physics, a special test demonstration at his personnel lab will demonstrate his cutting edge mechanical arm prototype, and the atomic field of research he himself is conducting.
 
Herr Logan said:
Zev, let's talk about those pictures... :mad:

:wolverine

Please Herr, however you feel about me, let's save your sister the embarrassment.
 
Zev said:
Please Herr, however you feel about me, let's save your sister the embarrassment.

Now you're sounding like certain other members of this board. Members who consitute the bottom of the barrel.

Stick with disparaging my grandparents, or at least the three dead ones.

:wolverine
 
Zaphod said:
Ok, here it is, regardless of what I said about witholding it until it's final form in my last post. This is the (very) unfinished draft of just under half of the script summary. It appears long in typed up form, but naturally, it would be alot different should it be edited together in this imaginary film of mine, so think in those terms. It isnt finished, since the rest simply wasn't good enough to type up in my view, but what you have here I'm fairly happy with, happy enough to share for now at least. When it comes to typing the whole thing, completed, polished and ready, I will have redone this whole section to read nice and flow nicer as a narrative. But for now, here you are...


Very nice, Zaphod! From this excerpt, I think this is a movie I could sit through without cringing!

One thing I don't get is this:
We see Octavius sitting in a chair, smoking a cigar, in the other hand, he is drawing an eye patch and vampire fangs on a picture of Einstein.
What the hell is that about?? :confused:
Even if he was arrogant enough to look down on Einstein, isn't that a bit childish for Octavius?
Also, him breaking his assistant's wrist is a very risky thing to do. Would it be made clear that the assistant is too scared to report Ock?

I'm not crazy about the idea that Liz Allan liked Peter even before his metamorphosis, or at least that it's apparent to the audience. In my treatment, I kept it like the comics (where she only started flirting post-bite) in order to drive home the point that he unconsciously but signifcantly came off as more confident and was thus more attractive to girls. There's a lot of infuriating irony there. Still, I don't protest the way you proposed. Just something to think about, is all.

The fact that you kept the web-shooters mechanical instead of hideous mutations isn't an extraordinary act; that's just common decency, and the very least I expect from anyone trying to adapt Spider-Man. Still, I commend you for rising above the rabble that pervades these boards that would do otherwise. :up:
I assume that his superhero costume will be the real one and not some "edgy," new piece of trash.

I'd much prefer Betty Brant as the primary love interest in the beginning to MJ, but at least you're handling MJ a thousand times better than they did in Raimi's 'Spider-Man.' She didn't grow up next door, God dammit, and you have the decency to keep it that way. Having Betty Brant his girlfriend and having Ock take her hostage in order to blackmail Jameson into setting up a final battle with Spider-Man is the only way to pull off the "villain endangers the girlfriend" bit without it being unforgivably forced and stupid. I don't know if you had planned to go with that plot device, but those are the parameters. There's absolutely no reason Ock should know who Spider-Man is at any point in the film, and if that's the case, only the cheesiest of fateful circumstances would allow Liz or MJ to be his captive. Just sayin' preemptively, is all.
Speaking of Betty Brant, I'm assuming the Daily Bugle and its esteemed publisher will be featured prominently later in the story?

It seems you're going to have Peter witness Octavius' fateful experiment, before he has a chance to test his powers in a wrestling match. Does that sound right to you? Also, when Spider-Man does meet Doc Ock, I really hope that he doesn't spend more than maybe a minute at most lamenting the fact that he has to beat up one of his idols. By the same token, while he should decide that Ock has forfeited any respect he'd previously earned by using his power irresponsibly, I wouldn't want Spider-Man to get over-emotional in anger about it. There should be quips all the way through Spider-Man's scenes (and there should be many, many of those scenes). But you already know that, don't you? ;)

Overall, I think it's a great start. Keep it up, Zaphod, and thanks for posting. :up:

:wolverine
 
Alright, I want a Captain America movie.

It's not too hard, because you've got a guy dressed as an American flag beating up Nazis. What part of that is not cool? Beating up Nazis = always cool. Think about it. WW2 veterans: Cool. Spanish-American War veterans: Not cool. Obviously, fighting Nazis is cool. I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, or what... it's fun to watch Nazis get KOed. Hell, even the commies don't like Nazis... and they're Commies!

First thirty minutes, newsreel footage of Red Skull being the evilest bastard on the planet. Steve Rogers, scrawny little guy, decides to join up. This should be played as a noble and honorable thing to do, not stupid or naive. I realize Hollywood might have some problems with this, as there have been about five pro-war war movies made since Vietnam and they've all been directed by Mel Gibson. But, Hollywood big shot type, just imagine Steve is doing something REALLY good and beautiful, like, say, leaving his wife and children to have sex with a gay cowboy, instead of serving his country.

You know the rest. 4F, secret experiment, scientist killed, only one of his kind, yada yada yada. Here's where we get to the meat. Cap's whole gimmick is that he's a superhero in WW2. He's a super-SOLDIER. So let's put him in a squad. Like Where Eagles Dare or The Dirty Dozen. Let's send him out with Sergeant Nick Fury and his Howling Commandos (or, if you wanna make a REAL epic, gather up all the Golden Age Invaders, although it'd take some doing to convince the FF people to part with the Human Torch name... let alone Prince Namor) on a trek through wartorn Europe to stop Red Skull (although leaving time for Cap to *****-slap Hitler, because hey, you can't mess with the classics).

This may play hard with the continuity of a later Nick Fury film, but you could either set that spy film in the present with Nick Fury Sr. as the director and a son or other cool spy (Black Widow?) as the titular Agent of SHIELD. Or, and this is my preferred option, set the whole shebang in the sixties and make the whole thing a Jim Steranko homage (much like Raimi did with the Lee/Dikto issues of Spider-Man and Goyer did with Batman: Year One). Why? Because name one classic Nick Fury story that happened after Steranko left the book. Just one. That's alright, you can get back to me.

Anyway, Cap and his band have a series of merry adventures fighting tanks and aeroplanes and V2 rockets and whatever else those Krauts can throw at them. Who knows, maybe he'll fall in love with an anarchonistic-but-politically-correct female spy. Maybe he'll free some prisoners of war. I don't know. But it'll probably end with Cap, the surviving Howlers, and a resistance movement (because Cap needs SOMEONE to give a stirring St. Crispin's Day speech to or HE IS NOT CAP) storming Red Skull's castle (because... c'mon, he's Red Skull. He's gotta have an evil lair) and Cap personally taking out Red Skull. Or at least foiling his plot and leaving him for dead, with the Nazi SOB swearing vengeance.

Key points: Captain America has no special powers aside from his martial arts ability and his indestructible shield. It will not be an uncommon sight to see Cap with a machine gun in one hand and his shield in another as he storms an enemy bunker. Or him fending off sharks as he searches for a crucial McGuffin in a sunken submarine while wearing an experimental diving suit. Or anything else that wouldn't be out of place in an Indiana Jones movie. This is an adventure/war movie, not a superhero movie. And by war movie, I don't mean some cynical Oliver Stone thing where every soldier is corrupt or stupid, I mean a "let's watch Our Boys kick some ass!" Get someone with a real love for the period, like Stephen Sommers or the guy who did Sky Captain.

Oh, and Herr, what'd you think of the Spider-Man script I wrote?
 
Dear JMS,

Hi, how are you? Thanks for creating Babylon 5. My favorite character was Garibaldi. Anyhoo, I notice you just got done with The Other, a twelve-part miniseries in which Spider-Man died and was resurrected by the Big Spider-God with the end result of him gaining new powers.

But then I read the latest Amazing Spider-Man and I see that you've given Spider-Man a new costume, with the end result of him gaining new powers. Now, it seems to me this is kind of redundant. If you want to give Spider-Man new powers, either give them to him via the Big Spider-God or the Ass-Ugly New Costume. Please see enclosed for details on something I like to call "storytelling economy." It's very useful and I'm surprised you haven't heard of it by now.

Also, you're kinda writing Tony Stark like a pedophilic uncle who has the hots for Peter. Stop that.
 
Thanks for the Spidey comments, Herr. Much appreciated, and I'm glad you enjoyed it for the most part. I'll now answer your questions my good sir...

Herr Logan said:
Very nice, Zaphod! From this excerpt, I think this is a movie I could sit through without cringing!

One thing I don't get is this:

What the hell is that about?? :confused:
Even if he was arrogant enough to look down on Einstein, isn't that a bit childish for Octavius?
Also, him breaking his assistant's wrist is a very risky thing to do. Would it be made clear that the assistant is too scared to report Ock?
Ock scribbling on Einsteins face is indeed a way to convey his supreme arrogance. I was intially a little apprehensive about having it in there, for the reasons you just mentioned, and it may be changed based on your comments.

I was toying with whether or not to show of Ocks handling of the tentacles pre-accident, but I wanted to convey a sense of obsessive arrogance for his creation, aswell as his contempt for those who persist with safety measures in concordance with them. I want to show that Ock is not only proud of his creations, but he beleives them to be a work of art. Anything else can go to hell. This is what I want to show to the audience through Ock handling his tentacle arms pre-accident. Of course, by thrashing out at an assistant with them, pre accident, is my way of showing that Ock isn't a villain as a complete result of his accident. the true Ock is a nasty son-of-a-***** way before the brain-damage, but the action of breaking an assistants wrist, a minor act compared to his later post-accident dealings, will be a foreshadowing of thigns to come.

I'm not crazy about the idea that Liz Allan liked Peter even before his metamorphosis, or at least that it's apparent to the audience. In my treatment, I kept it like the comics (where she only started flirting post-bite) in order to drive home the point that he unconsciously but signifcantly came off as more confident and was thus more attractive to girls. There's a lot of infuriating irony there. Still, I don't protest the way you proposed. Just something to think about, is all.
Liz's affections for Peter, in the story, aren't going to be entirely clear in the first act of the plot. The audience will be wondering whether if she really does like Peter, and just conceals it, or if Peter is merely perceiving her manner as affectionate, when really she is just as ignorant of Peter as Flash is. It's going to play like that, with a deliberate ambiguity. However, I will make it clear, that Liz is secretly (but obviously) unhappy with her relationship with Flash.

The fact that you kept the web-shooters mechanical instead of hideous mutations isn't an extraordinary act; that's just common decency, and the very least I expect from anyone trying to adapt Spider-Man. Still, I commend you for rising above the rabble that pervades these boards that would do otherwise. :up:
I assume that his superhero costume will be the real one and not some "edgy," new piece of trash.
Yes, the hideous mutations are gone, and the web-shooter's Peter constructs himself are firmly back in! It's obvious to me that the creation of these devices may be minor to some, and make less sense since why would the spider mutation not conform his body to shooting webs? Well, in all honesty, and to those who argue this point of view, why have Peter established as a budding science genius if he can't display his talents in that field, like constructing the web-shooters? The fact is, this is much more important to Peter's character, than attempting to drive home further the idea that Peter is mutating, which is otherwise strikingly obvious anyway.

The costume will be a reimagining. Spidey will have a cape of webs and will wear a cross between the Ben-Reily Scarlet Spider outfit, and the new Iron-Man-esque costume...

*cough*...

Just kidding :), the costume is the classic-style. Through and through, no changes there.

I'd much prefer Betty Brant as the primary love interest in the beginning to MJ, but at least you're handling MJ a thousand times better than they did in Raimi's 'Spider-Man.' She didn't grow up next door, God dammit, and you have the decency to keep it that way. Having Betty Brant his girlfriend and having Ock take her hostage in order to blackmail Jameson into setting up a final battle with Spider-Man is the only way to pull off the "villain endangers the girlfriend" bit without it being unforgivably forced and stupid. I don't know if you had planned to go with that plot device, but those are the parameters. There's absolutely no reason Ock should know who Spider-Man is at any point in the film, and if that's the case, only the cheesiest of fateful circumstances would allow Liz or MJ to be his captive. Just sayin' preemptively, is all.
Speaking of Betty Brant, I'm assuming the Daily Bugle and its esteemed publisher will be featured prominently later in the story?
The root of 'villain endanger's girlfriend' wont be featured, or at least it is currently not featured to. I am still undecided truth be told, but it is likely that my final choice will be to go against that particualr cliche'.

Betty Brant and the Daily Bugle will indeed play a prominent part, no doubt about that.

It seems you're going to have Peter witness Octavius' fateful experiment, before he has a chance to test his powers in a wrestling match. Does that sound right to you? Also, when Spider-Man does meet Doc Ock, I really hope that he doesn't spend more than maybe a minute at most lamenting the fact that he has to beat up one of his idols. By the same token, while he should decide that Ock has forfeited any respect he'd previously earned by using his power irresponsibly, I wouldn't want Spider-Man to get over-emotional in anger about it. There should be quips all the way through Spider-Man's scenes (and there should be many, many of those scenes). But you already know that, don't you? ;)
You are mistaken there my good sir, Spidey will test his powers before Ock's experiment and accident, since Peter's alter-ego plays a role in said scene. Peter will lament; but not excessively. When he is Spider Man, Peter will be a different person somewhat. Confident, full of vigour, and ready chrun out the quips at Ocks expense. There will be a moment when Peter as Peter looks at things differently.

Overall, I think it's a great start. Keep it up, Zaphod, and thanks for posting. :up:

:wolverine
My humblest thanks to you Herr, the second half wont be too long...

:spidey:
 
Zaphod said:
Thanks for the Spidey comments, Herr. Much appreciated, and I'm glad you enjoyed it for the most part. I'll now answer your questions my good sir...


I was toying with whether or not to show of Ocks handling of the tentacles pre-accident, but I wanted to convey a sense of obsessive arrogance for his creation, aswell as his contempt for those who persist with safety measures in concordance with them. I want to show that Ock is not only proud of his creations, but he beleives them to be a work of art. Anything else can go to hell. This is what I want to show to the audience through Ock handling his tentacle arms pre-accident. Of course, by thrashing out at an assistant with them, pre accident, is my way of showing that Ock isn't a villain as a complete result of his accident. the true Ock is a nasty son-of-a-***** way before the brain-damage, but the action of breaking an assistants wrist, a minor act compared to his later post-accident dealings, will be a foreshadowing of thigns to come.
That's an excellent idea! I was actually just pointing out that you would need to justify why Ock isn't arrested before his "big day" for what he did to his co-worker, and I wasn't even thinking about how important it is to make it clear that Octavius was a stone-cold bastard before his accident. People like myself and our friend Doc Ock and others are thoroughly aware of the true facts of Octavius' personality, but there are plenty of ignoranty fools on this very site who think that he was a decent guy who just went crazy after the explosion. But a proper screenwriter for a worthy Spider-Man film must take these cognitive failures into account and compensate for them, and that's what you've done. Excellent! :up:

Liz's affections for Peter, in the story, aren't going to be entirely clear in the first act of the plot. The audience will be wondering whether if she really does like Peter, and just conceals it, or if Peter is merely perceiving her manner as affectionate, when really she is just as ignorant of Peter as Flash is. It's going to play like that, with a deliberate ambiguity. However, I will make it clear, that Liz is secretly (but obviously) unhappy with her relationship with Flash.

Fair enough. That sounds fine.

Yes, the hideous mutations are gone, and the web-shooter's Peter constructs himself are firmly back in! It's obvious to me that the creation of these devices may be minor to some, and make less sense since why would the spider mutation not conform his body to shooting webs? Well, in all honesty, and to those who argue this point of view, why have Peter established as a budding science genius if he can't display his talents in that field, like constructing the web-shooters? The fact is, this is much more important to Peter's character, than attempting to drive home further the idea that Peter is mutating, which is otherwise strikingly obvious anyway.

I'm so damn proud right now... *sniff* :O

The costume will be a reimagining. Spidey will have a cape of webs and will wear a cross between the Ben-Reily Scarlet Spider outfit, and the new Iron-Man-esque costume...

*cough*...

Just kidding :), the costume is the classic-style. Through and through, no changes there.

You like to live dangerously, don't you? ;)

The root of 'villain endanger's girlfriend' wont be featured, or at least it is currently not featured to. I am still undecided truth be told, but it is likely that my final choice will be to go against that particualr cliche'.

Ah, okay. Just checking. I like that you're willing to do without that plot.

I think it's okay to use that cliche' in basically three places in a Spider-Man franchise, but only if there are over three films (otherwise it's egregiously repetitive instead only appropriately repetitive), and I use that model myself in my concepts: Dr. Octopus takes Betty Brant hostage as leverage on Jameson, with Spider-Man as his real target (in the first film); the Green Goblin abducts Gwen Stacy and then knocks her off the bridge during a fight with Spidey (in the fourth film); Venom scares Mary Jane Watson after she and Peter are a solid item, and possibly even abducts her as bait for Spider-Man, but never intends to actually harm her (in the sixth film or later, depending on the extent of the franchise).

You are mistaken there my good sir, Spidey will test his powers before Ock's experiment and accident, since Peter's alter-ego plays a role in said scene. Peter will lament; but not excessively. When he is Spider Man, Peter will be a different person somewhat. Confident, full of vigour, and ready chrun out the quips at Ocks expense. There will be a moment when Peter as Peter looks at things differently.

Sounds fair enough, for now.

My humblest thanks to you Herr, the second half wont be too long...

And my most not-so-humblest thanks to you, Zaphod. It is great to see love for the real Spider-Man alive. Looking foward to more from you. :up:

:wolverine
 
Zev said:
Alright, I want a Captain America movie.

It's not too hard, because you've got a guy dressed as an American flag beating up Nazis. What part of that is not cool? Beating up Nazis = always cool. Think about it. WW2 veterans: Cool. Spanish-American War veterans: Not cool. Obviously, fighting Nazis is cool. I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, or what... it's fun to watch Nazis get KOed. Hell, even the commies don't like Nazis... and they're Commies!

Here we go...

First thirty minutes, newsreel footage of Red Skull being the evilest bastard on the planet. Steve Rogers, scrawny little guy, decides to join up. This should be played as a noble and honorable thing to do, not stupid or naive.

It should be protrayed as "stupid and naive" in terms of Steve thinking he could cut it (because he should be more than just scrawny, he should be medically unfit because he's lame), but noble and honorable in terms of his intentions. The traits "stupid and naive" and "noble and honorable" go hand-in-hand much of the time when it comes to human heroes. The thing that keeps it from being a pathetic situation is that he gets a one-in-a-million big break by military scientists and is not only turned healthy, but turned into the baddest "normal" human mo-fo that ever kicked a man's ass in hand-to-hand combat.

I realize Hollywood might have some problems with this, as there have been about five pro-war war movies made since Vietnam and they've all been directed by Mel Gibson. But, Hollywood big shot type, just imagine Steve is doing something REALLY good and beautiful, like, say, leaving his wife and children to have sex with a gay cowboy, instead of serving his country.

That's uncalled for and you know it (and Sarge 2.0, don't get into it with him, please). Besides, from what I heard, the guy in 'Brokeback Mountain' stayed with his wife at the end. I didn't see it (and never will, most likely, since it's more about love and angst than about crime, superheroes or monsters, and I've got ADHD and very specific tastes), and neither did you, Iapparently, and we're not gonna discuss that movie here or make quick little digs at it here. Got it? Good.

Anyway, the whole "pro-war" thing doesn't have to be that egregious in this situation, since it's WWII and not one of the completely idiotic wars in recent history (anything after WWII, basically). Regardless of the coldness and callousness people perceived, I respect Roosevelt's decision not to get into the war until America was attacked, his job is to serve and protect his people (U.S. citizens) above all, but I also respect the moral argument for getting involved before that point, which should be Rogers' drive to enlist. It shouldn't be about just America's direct interests, because that's not what it was about when Lee and Kirby invented the character. Jack Kirby grew up in a tough neighborhood where you had to stand up to bullies or get pounded every day, and he saw Hitler as basically an enormous bully, so he wanted to create someone who'd go over there and put him in his place, even though the real government hadn't declared that an option yet. Cap and other superheroes of that era went into action well before the U.S. joined the war, and that's an option for a movie as well.

You know the rest. 4F, secret experiment, scientist killed, only one of his kind, yada yada yada. Here's where we get to the meat. Cap's whole gimmick is that he's a superhero in WW2. He's a super-SOLDIER. So let's put him in a squad. Like Where Eagles Dare or The Dirty Dozen. Let's send him out with Sergeant Nick Fury and his Howling Commandos (or, if you wanna make a REAL epic, gather up all the Golden Age Invaders, although it'd take some doing to convince the FF people to part with the Human Torch name... let alone Prince Namor) on a trek through wartorn Europe to stop Red Skull (although leaving time for Cap to *****-slap Hitler, because hey, you can't mess with the classics).

Hell, the FF people wouldn't have to part with a God damn thing... every comprehensive encyclopedia of Marvel characters refers to Johnny Storm as "Human Torch II," and his name was deliberately taken from the WWII-era android Invader, not vice-versa.

If this could all be done in a manner that wasn't hyper-jingoistic (which is a challenge if you want to capture the spirit of the early days, since Captain America was a blatant propaganda vehicle), this could work well.

This may play hard with the continuity of a later Nick Fury film,
Not at all, if the screenwriters, director and producers have the balls to give Fury at least a slice of his true continuity. He himself took a formula comparable to the Super Soldier serum (or at least that's how it could be portrayed) that slows his aging. If that's too "unrealistic" for the team that makes a Fury movie, then they shouldn't be using Marvel characters in the first place.
but you could either set that spy film in the present with Nick Fury Sr. as the director and a son or other cool spy (Black Widow?) as the titular Agent of SHIELD. Or, and this is my preferred option, set the whole shebang in the sixties and make the whole thing a Jim Steranko homage (much like Raimi did with the Lee/Dikto issues of Spider-Man and Goyer did with Batman: Year One). Why? Because name one classic Nick Fury story that happened after Steranko left the book. Just one. That's alright, you can get back to me.

I'll have to take your word for it, since I don't know anything about Fury's classic stories.

Anyway, Cap and his band have a series of merry adventures fighting tanks and aeroplanes and V2 rockets and whatever else those Krauts can throw at them. Who knows, maybe he'll fall in love with an anarchonistic-but-politically-correct female spy. Maybe he'll free some prisoners of war. I don't know. But it'll probably end with Cap, the surviving Howlers, and a resistance movement (because Cap needs SOMEONE to give a stirring St. Crispin's Day speech to or HE IS NOT CAP) storming Red Skull's castle (because... c'mon, he's Red Skull. He's gotta have an evil lair) and Cap personally taking out Red Skull. Or at least foiling his plot and leaving him for dead, with the Nazi SOB swearing vengeance.

Key points: Captain America has no special powers aside from his martial arts ability and his indestructible shield.
But he is faster and stronger than basically any other non-powered human on the planet. He should rely on this and hi shield more than anything else.
It will not be an uncommon sight to see Cap with a machine gun in one hand and his shield in another as he storms an enemy bunker.
I guess I would be okay with this, although I can't speak for other fans. I think once Cap is unfrozen in a more recent era (or the current era, if you wanted to jump all the way forward), he should give up guns completely. Cap isn't cool with guns, period. Superheroes aren't cool with guns, even if many of us wish they'd get off their high horses and kill the scumbags they allow to keep killing and hurting people. During a full-blown actual war, perhaps it's necessary to hold a gun, but Cap can take down people dozens of times stronger and meaner than him without firing a single bullet, so once out of a literal war-zone, he should do what he does best.
Or him fending off sharks as he searches for a crucial McGuffin in a sunken submarine while wearing an experimental diving suit. Or anything else that wouldn't be out of place in an Indiana Jones movie. This is an adventure/war movie, not a superhero movie. And by war movie, I don't mean some cynical Oliver Stone thing where every soldier is corrupt or stupid, I mean a "let's watch Our Boys kick some ass!" Get someone with a real love for the period, like Stephen Sommers or the guy who did Sky Captain.

Oh, and Herr, what'd you think of the Spider-Man script I wrote?

Do you mean the one with Venom in it? I never did finish the whole thing, but I wrote some notes while I was reading it. They're not exactly singing with praise, I must warn you

Okay, it's been a long time and I need to revise my sparse notes just a little so they actually refer to something.

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
Here we go...

That's uncalled for and you know it (and Sarge 2.0, don't get into it with him, please). Besides, from what I heard, the guy in 'Brokeback Mountain' stayed with his wife at the end. I didn't see it (and never will, most likely, since it's more about love and angst than about crime, superheroes or monsters, and I've got ADHD and very specific tastes), and neither did you, Iapparently, and we're not gonna discuss that movie here or make quick little digs at it here. Got it? Good.

Actually, I was talking about Can't Stop The Music.

Anyway, the whole "pro-war" thing doesn't have to be that egregious in this situation, since it's WWII and not one of the completely idiotic wars in recent history (anything after WWII, basically). Regardless of the coldness and callousness people perceived, I respect Roosevelt's decision not to get into the war until America was attacked, his job is to serve and protect his people (U.S. citizens) above all, but I also respect the moral argument for getting involved before that point, which should be Rogers' drive to enlist. It shouldn't be about just America's direct interests, because that's not what it was about when Lee and Kirby invented the character. Jack Kirby grew up in a tough neighborhood where you had to stand up to bullies or get pounded every day, and he saw Hitler as basically an enormous bully, so he wanted to create someone who'd go over there and put him in his place, even though the real government hadn't declared that an option yet. Cap and other superheroes of that era went into action well before the U.S. joined the war, and that's an option for a movie as well.

One of my inital story ideas was Captain America fighting saboteurs and mobsters at home, since that would probably be a lot less harsh budget-wise than recreating wartime Europe AND 1940s America.

Hell, the FF people wouldn't have to part with a God damn thing... every comprehensive encyclopedia of Marvel characters refers to Johnny Storm as "Human Torch II," and his name was deliberately taken from the WWII-era android Invader, not vice-versa.

Still, they might want to change his name to Tora or something. Besides which, whoever heard of an ANDROID named the Human Torch?

Not at all, if the screenwriters, director and producers have the balls to give Fury at least a slice of his true continuity. He himself took a formula comparable to the Super Soldier serum (or at least that's how it could be portrayed) that slows his aging. If that's too "unrealistic" for the team that makes a Fury movie, then they shouldn't be using Marvel characters in the first place.

Well, it depends on how realistic you want the movie to be. If it's a Steranko/James Bond-like fantasy, I can see how having a guy in his forties who fought in WW2 would be just as believable as, say, a flying Heli-Carrier or a government agency that requires all of its members to wear skintight blue jumpsuits.


But he is faster and stronger than basically any other non-powered human on the planet. He should rely on this and hi shield more than anything else.

Well, yeah, otherwise he wouldn't be Cap. But my point is that he's a soldier first, superhero second. Hell, they didn't even call them superheroes back then. They were "costumed adventurers."

I guess I would be okay with this, although I can't speak for other fans. I think once Cap is unfrozen in a more recent era (or the current era, if you wanted to jump all the way forward), he should give up guns completely. Cap isn't cool with guns, period. Superheroes aren't cool with guns, even if many of us wish they'd get off their high horses and kill the scumbags they allow to keep killing and hurting people. During a full-blown actual war, perhaps it's necessary to hold a gun, but Cap can take down people dozens of times stronger and meaner than him without firing a single bullet, so once out of a literal war-zone, he should do what he does best.

But what's unique about Cap is that he's a super-soldier. If he doesn't use guns, he should still bear more resemblance to Lee Marvin than Tobey Maguire. The Shadow, for instance, used guns all the time. Just picture him, say, picking up a grenade from a fallen soldier and using it to take out a tank rather than bending the turret or throwing it fifty yards. Or giving orders to other soldiers rather than taking out a whole battalion by himself.
 
Okay, here are the notes I wrote while reading your story, so far:

The imagery transmitted from Eddie to Peter is intriguing. His coming and going is suspenseful.
What’s the history with Eddie?


Obvious material taken from:
Valentine's Day Marvel special
‘Amazing Spider-Man’ #400

A lot of influence from ‘Ultimate Spider-Man’

"Hey lady, how about a facial?"
That’s not the least bit appropriate for a Spider-Man story.

"I visited you plenty of times. Remember that time we switched bodies?"
This is one of the absolute worst stories from ‘Ultimate Spider-Man.’

“The figure walks THROUGH the flames, unharmed,”
What the hell? That’s not how it works at all.

“PETER: I want this guy. I want a picture of his face when they throw the switch.”
Peter is not pro-death penalty, period. He isn’t this vengeful unless he’s literally in a berserker state of mind. It doesn’t matter what your politics are, or mine, for that matter. Peter Parker has never been like this.

“PETER: The police? You're asking ME to trust the police? We're Bugle, Jonah. We're family. We take care of our own.”
This is also extremely out of character, for so many reasons. When would he ever say this?

“EDDIE: Hello, father.
He takes a pillow from Octavius's bed, fluffs it.”
“EDDIE: Yes, I know. Me too. The death of an innocent is always a tragic affair, even when absolutely necessary.”
Is Ock actually supposed to be Eddie’s father? Also, how is Ock innocent?
This whole situation is incorrect, and I’m all about faithful adaptations, not insane deviations.

“GWEN: And sometimes I get thirsty, but that doesn't mean I stick a firehose down my throat.
FELICIA: I do. (eyes twinkling) Practice.”
Wrong for Spider-Man stories.

“FELICIA: C'mon, give me a “Talk or you're dead, mother****er!” for old time's sake.”
Wrong for Spider-Man stories.

“FELICIA: Quick, what color are my eyes, clone-boy?”
Is that something you’d want brought up in a movie?

“HARRY: A guarantee. That the next time we battle, it will be to the death.
PETER: Done. The letter.”
“PETER: Harry, I would've done it letter or not.
HARRY: Why don't I believe you?”
Wrong for Spider-Man.

“PETER: (notes bullet wound) Where'd you get the beauty scar, Eddie, eatin' *****?”
Wrong for Spider-Man stories.

“PETER: Got a light?
The man hands him a lighter. Peter flicks it on and throws it like a ninja star into his apartment, igniting the GAS leaking from the ruptured gas line.”
This isn’t anything close to Spider-Man.


:wolverine
 
Well, I did say it was AU. I'm really going to have to write a more faithful story to recommend to you, since what I wrote was obviously not your thing (and doesn't make a lot of sense unless you've read what comes before, which is probably my fault for not writing it as accessible enough for new readers). I think Webmistress put it best when she said:

I think I've come to think of your characters as alternate universe in a really strange way.

And the history with Eddie is that he was used as a patsy by Doc Ock (who, and I think you'll like this part, is a completely evil megalomaniac mad scientist) to escape from prison. He later took up with Ock and became his protege (so when he calls Ock his father, he's speaking in a metaphorical sense). Not helping things was Peter, while caught in an understandably vindictive mood, basically screwing him over something fierce. Eddie went to commit suicide, met the symbiote... you can fill in the blanks from there.

P.S. I should note that Peter's been spending a lot of time in a berserker sort of mood, which led to the problem with Venom in the first place (and further problems down the line). A lot of the theme of the story is him rejecting that attitude, in contrast with Venom embracing it. He never quite ends up all sweetness and light, but he does make a positive choice.

P.P.S. If you make any more notes, do me a favor and leave out what you find inappropriate for Spider-Man. I'll just assume there's a lot you find not in keeping with the mythos. Most of which, if I really WERE to write a script for an actual Spider-Man movie rather than just a what-if, I would probably leave out. Except for that Bugle line. Suffice to say that Peter got framed for a crime he didn't commit by a police officer who he trusted and that kinda soured him on the whole "working within the law" thing.

P.P.P.S. And that facial line too. Spider-Man just said that, in removing the web-fluid, it would take along with it a great deal of blackheads and other such blemishes, thus leaving the victim with a clearer complexion, in effect acting like a facial. Why, what did you think I meant?
 
I should also note that nothing I ever write will be as inappropriate as canon.

Valentine-3.jpg


Bondage? It's canon.

amazing529.jpg


I should note that while the third tentacle is more dirty, that curving foot is the most disturbing thing. Did Kathy Bates just hobble him or something?

chamlove1.jpg


You know, the whole arch-nemesis declaring his love for Spider-Man is really the least disturbing thing in this post. Although it does get points for him committing suicide directly afterwards... when Peter laughs at him. Yeah... I know.

spiderman5ls.gif


Disturbing on so many levels.

auntmaysemen4az.jpg


ON SO MANY LEVELS.

And honestly? That's not even counting the time he got pregnant and gave birth to himself, which is about the dirtiest, most Freudian metaphor I can imagine. Or the time he sneezed in his mask. Or when he ate the head of the guy who ripped out his eye.
 
Zev said:
Well, I did say it was AU. I'm really going to have to write a more faithful story to recommend to you, since what I wrote was obviously not your thing (and doesn't make a lot of sense unless you've read what comes before, which is probably my fault for not writing it as accessible enough for new readers). I think Webmistress put it best when she said:



And the history with Eddie is that he was used as a patsy by Doc Ock (who, and I think you'll like this part, is a completely evil megalomaniac mad scientist) to escape from prison. He later took up with Ock and became his protege (so when he calls Ock his father, he's speaking in a metaphorical sense). Not helping things was Peter, while caught in an understandably vindictive mood, basically screwing him over something fierce. Eddie went to commit suicide, met the symbiote... you can fill in the blanks from there.

P.S. I should note that Peter's been spending a lot of time in a berserker sort of mood, which led to the problem with Venom in the first place (and further problems down the line). A lot of the theme of the story is him rejecting that attitude, in contrast with Venom embracing it. He never quite ends up all sweetness and light, but he does make a positive choice.

P.P.S. If you make any more notes, do me a favor and leave out what you find inappropriate for Spider-Man. I'll just assume there's a lot you find not in keeping with the mythos. Most of which, if I really WERE to write a script for an actual Spider-Man movie rather than just a what-if, I would probably leave out. Except for that Bugle line. Suffice to say that Peter got framed for a crime he didn't commit by a police officer who he trusted and that kinda soured him on the whole "working within the law" thing.

P.P.P.S. And that facial line too. Spider-Man just said that, in removing the web-fluid, it would take along with it a great deal of blackheads and other such blemishes, thus leaving the victim with a clearer complexion, in effect acting like a facial. Why, what did you think I meant?

Just givin' my God's-honest opinion, is all. I will refrain from pointing out what's blatantly inappropriate from here on out, but seriously, that's messed up. Why couldn't you give the sleazy treatment to the Archie gang instead of Spider-Man? :(

I thought the line in the MTV Spider-Man series where he faces the Lizard, "Know where I can get some tail," was pushing it, so yeah, the facial thing is out of the question. This is my childhood, damn you, don't you understand??

I likes to keep my dramatic fiction separate from my pornography, and I likes it all or nothin' when it comes to sexual content. :o

:wolverine
 
Zev said:
I should also note that nothing I ever write will be as inappropriate as canon.
Excellent.
Bondage? It's canon.
Just like Mary Jane posing for Parker's personal photo collection back in the ugly McFarlane days.
I should note that while the third tentacle is more dirty, that curving foot is the most disturbing thing. Did Kathy Bates just hobble him or something?
That whole sequence in 'Misery,' from when she woke him up and then drugged him, was probably the most terrifying movie experiences ever. A close second, or equal, is everything having to do with the malformed sister in 'Pet Sematary.'
Disturbing on so many levels.
Is that from the daily comic strips?
ON SO MANY LEVELS.
Bwahahahahahahah!! :D
And honestly? That's not even counting the time he got pregnant and gave birth to himself, which is about the dirtiest, most Freudian metaphor I can imagine. Or the time he sneezed in his mask. Or when he ate the head of the guy who ripped out his eye.
I didn't read the second part of the story where he turned into a real spider and re-birthed himself blah blah blah, but I'm as opposed to that being canon or ever happening again as I am to Wendy's being closed.
Sneezing in his mask isn't blasphemous, just gross. That last thing, however, was pure heresy, just like almost every high-profile story in Spider-Man comics since JMS got on the book (whether he wrote the stories or not, I'm talking about the whole era).

:wolverine
 

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