Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[SoulManX]

I have a lot of ideas for a Fantastic Four trilogy. I'm not sure if you'll like them, because there are quite a few changes I made. Not for the sake of 'realism' though, but because I think the change is for the better.

You want to hear my ideas?

Sure go for it...hey gang been a while. Herr Logan nice work on your post about X-Men. Saban got it right better than Singer.

 

[Herr Logan]

I have a lot of ideas for a Fantastic Four trilogy. I'm not sure if you'll like them, because there are quite a few changes I made. Not for the sake of 'realism' though, but because I think the change is for the better.

You want to hear my ideas?

Permission granted. Welcome to the Haven.

 

[Herr Logan]

Sure go for it...hey gang been a while. Herr Logan nice work on your post about X-Men. Saban got it right better than Singer.

Thanks, and nice to hear from you again, BHK.

Damn right, Saban did a better job than Singer. That cartoon was damn good, and it actually was what got me into the X-Men.

 

[Cullen]

Thanks, and nice to hear from you again, BHK.

Damn right, Saban did a better job than Singer. That cartoon was damn good, and it actually was what got me into the X-Men.

The cartoon never did anything for me. A part of it was I'd seen "Batman the Animated Series" first and that set the bar so high. The other part was I'd watched so much anime by then and the anime was, to me, far superior quality.

Still, I might sit down and give the Sabin X-men another shot. Unlike, say, the 90's Spider-man, which just plain stings...

 

[SoulManX]

The cartoon never did anything for me. A part of it was I'd seen "Batman the Animated Series" first and that set the bar so high. The other part was I'd watched so much anime by then and the anime was, to me, far superior quality.

Still, I might sit down and give the Sabin X-men another shot. Unlike, say, the 90's Spider-man, which just plain stings...

The story was great though art was a little of key. That X-Men that was on Kids WB sucked ass.

 

[Herr Logan]

The cartoon never did anything for me. A part of it was I'd seen "Batman the Animated Series" first and that set the bar so high. The other part was I'd watched so much anime by then and the anime was, to me, far superior quality.

Still, I might sit down and give the Sabin X-men another shot. Unlike, say, the 90's Spider-man, which just plain stings...

The 90's Spider-Man cartoon wasn't completely worthless, but it had a lot of bad stuff going for it. Spider-Man couldn't even punch anyone, and does anyone remember Morbius? This guy had at least 6 episodes centered around him, and he was a watered-down, kiddified half-vamp with squid-like suckers on his hands to drain "plasma" through people's skin. "Plasma," instead of "blood," every time the subject was mentioned. I guess it's good that they watered down Carnage a hell of a lot as well (which was to be expected), since I sure as hell didn't want to hear him say something like "I'll rip out your heart and dance in your plasma!" There were a few episodes that were fantastic, though.

The X-Men cartoon fell short of the Batman animated series in some ways, but both were of completely different styles, and thus it's hard to compare directly. BTAS was a noirish show centered on one main character, while X-Men was a team show with a more straightforward artistic style in some ways (as in it wasn't sticking to a specific genre like film noir). I think they were both great shows.

 

[Zev]

The story was great though art was a little of key. That X-Men that was on Kids WB sucked ass.

Except for Nightcrawler. "Chicks dig the fuzzy dude!"

 

[SoulManX]

Spider Man 90 was used for one thing and one thing only. Selling toys and Ari Avad even said so. So I can't blame anyone but Ari Avad. Batman was better because it grabbed kids and adults.

Rule for future producers neva dumb down your audence.

 

[SoulManX]

Except for Nightcrawler. "Chicks dig the fuzzy dude!"

Really...hmmm.

 

[SoulManX]

Guys we have to face it. Those movies are watered down to the public. And the creators of these fine works sell thier soul for the might dollars and red carpet fame. The creators themselves have been pimed by the Hollywood machine. The true fans who buy the toys, comics, etc. We are the minor voices that has kept Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. Yet we will never get the true verison...

 

[Abaddon]

The story was great though art was a little of key. That X-Men that was on Kids WB sucked ass.

The show was awful in its first two seasons,but after that it got progressively better.Some of the stories were pretty shallow and oversimplified,but once the show took a darker turn,the stories were fleshed out a bit more.Mainly I enjoyed some of the character portrayals on the show.Rogue was great,and Mystique was badass which I was happy about.In the 90s series Mystique just came off as a lackey(i.e. working for Apocalypse and such).I thought X-men Evolution did a much better job and made her a dangerous,non-nonsense poer*****.

 

[SoulManX]

The show was awful in its first two seasons,but after that it got progressively better.Some of the stories were pretty shallow and oversimplified,but once the show took a darker turn,the stories were fleshed out a bit more.Mainly I enjoyed some of the character portrayals on the show.Rogue was great,and Mystique was badass which I was happy about.In the 90s series Mystique just came off as a lackey(i.e. working for Apocalypse and such).I thought X-men Evolution did a much better job and made her a dangerous,non-nonsense poer*****.

Ok I agree with Mystique but Rogue I like from Saban. Spike was usless till he got the bone armor. Logan was crap and X-23 was a dumb plot.

 

[Abaddon]

Well I didn't either, at first, but I think it could work and I think it would be hypocritical of me to preach faithfulness to the source material and not sign off on an X-Men franchise that features the original team first.

Why not compromise if it could make a better film?

He did? Well, the X-Cutioner did work for the FBI, right? That's not much of a stretch.

I'm pretty sure he did.

Here's another important mandate or two I'd make for this film:

• There shouldn't be any huge age differences between the X-Men. They should all be about 17 or 18 except for Iceman, who's one year younger than the rest and two years younger at the very most. They all get costumes, and there isn't a bunch of mutant young-un's running around in the background. One huge mansion/institute and campus/estate for five teenaged mutants and one professor. Sound weird? Yeah, kinda the whole point of the X-Men. Anyway, we don't need nameless mutants or cameos (at least none attending the school itself... cameos are good when done well, so anywhere else that's suitable, fine) using up the special effects budget. There's plenty of special effects that the core X-Men and Brotherhood need to spend.

I really don't like the idea of having them all be teenagers.I think the film won't be taken as seriously with the issues it deals with.I imagine people scoffing at the idea of going to see a movie about a bunch of superpowered kids in leather outfits(or costumes,whichever you prefer) trying tto save the world.

 

[Abaddon]

Ok I agree with Mystique but Rogue I like from Saban. Spike was usless till he got the bone armor. Logan was crap and X-23 was a dumb plot.

Spyke was a waste of screen time,as was X-23.And I hated Wolverine in the series.I like Rogue in pretty much all her incarnations.I enjoyed the Evolution version because she was shown using her natural abilities more,and I think it gave more depth to her character.

 

[Herr Logan]

Except for Nightcrawler. "Chicks dig the fuzzy dude!"

Especially Nightcrawler!

 

[Herr Logan]

Guys we have to face it. Those movies are watered down to the public. And the creators of these fine works sell thier soul for the might dollars and red carpet fame. The creators themselves have been pimed by the Hollywood machine. The true fans who buy the toys, comics, etc. We are the minor voices that has kept Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. Yet we will never get the true verison...

I'm aware of this.

The point of my thread is to keep hope alive in our imaginations. Are you telling me it's pointless to dream?

 

[Abaddon]

I'm aware of this.

The point of my thread is to keep hope alive in our imaginations. Are you telling me it's pointless to dream?

A hopeful pessimistic misanthrope with a strong desire for justice.

 

[Cullen]

I'm aware of this.

The point of my thread is to keep hope alive in our imaginations. Are you telling me it's pointless to dream?

Dreaming is fine. Acting is better. Inspiring others to act is almost as good.

Using of the imagination is better than not using it. With a few exceptions. (coughJMScough)

Ah, hell with it. Let's all get maudlin.

 

[Abaddon]

whats your novel about?

 

[Cullen]

The 90's Spider-Man cartoon wasn't completely worthless, but it had a lot of bad stuff going for it. Spider-Man couldn't even punch anyone, and does anyone remember Morbius? This guy had at least 6 episodes centered around him, and he was a watered-down, kiddified half-vamp with squid-like suckers on his hands to drain "plasma" through people's skin. "Plasma," instead of "blood," every time the subject was mentioned. I guess it's good that they watered down Carnage a hell of a lot as well (which was to be expected), since I sure as hell didn't want to hear him say something like "I'll rip out your heart and dance in your plasma!" There were a few episodes that were fantastic, though.

Heheh. All I have to do is mention the cartoon Morbius and I can cause physical pain in both of my brothers. Plasma. Ha.

Causing siblings damage aside, I really wanted to like the cartoon. I've given it several chances, and it just does nothing for me. Right now my favorite Spider-man cartoon is the 60's version, and that's just sad. They had an episode in that series with the Vulture and they kept calling him Vulture Man. The Lizard was Lizard Man.

Damn near crawled out of my skin with shame. And yet I can still watch it and enjoy myself. That was my Spider-man as a kid, and the nostalgia still holds.

Having said all that, I'd kill for a decent Spider-man cartoon.

The X-Men cartoon fell short of the Batman animated series in some ways, but both were of completely different styles, and thus it's hard to compare directly. BTAS was a noirish show centered on one main character, while X-Men was a team show with a more straightforward artistic style in some ways (as in it wasn't sticking to a specific genre like film noir). I think they were both great shows.

One of the episodes of the X-men I saw had a fight scene in it. A static shot with characters charging across the screen, thrown across the screen, and so on. It did nothing for me. Meanwhile, with Batman, it was all fluid, movie like. (Anime like.)

Of course, the typical episode of the 60 Spider-man cartoon is about 90% Spider-man swinging through New York, and I liked that... So take these comments with a grain of salt.

 

[Cullen]

whats your novel about?

It's about 500,000 words of pure pain. It should have been a parody of H. P. Lovecraft's "Call of Cthulhu" in a fantasy setting, but I fell a little short. That's what second drafts are for, I guess.

 

[Herr Logan]

Why not compromise if it could make a better film?

That depends on how you compromise. I like the second generation team as a cohesive unit that shouldn't be blended with the first generation team in the very beginning.

I really don't like the idea of having them all be teenagers.I think the film won't be taken as seriously with the issues it deals with.I imagine people scoffing at the idea of going to see a movie about a bunch of superpowered kids in leather outfits(or costumes,whichever you prefer) trying tto save the world.

It's a movie about superpowered individuals operating out of a prep school who use violence as a means to achieve equality and peace. The concept is something that people take seriously or don't, but I don't see age being the deciding factor if the movie is written and promoted as a mature piece of fiction.

The oldest I could tolerate a first-generation X-Men team is college age. They're not supposed to be stupid little teenyboppers, but they're definitely, unquestionably supposed to be young people. The name of the school mandates that for the majority of the students at the beginning of the story: "Xavier's School for Gifted Youngers." Obviously there's plenty of room for idiotic dialogue and crappy melodrama, but it doesn't have to be that way. The youngest X-Man is Bobby Drake, and he is seen as the most immature of the five. He is the baseline of the maturity level, basically, and I think that baseline should be the equivalent of the movie 'Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,' since that showed immature, goofy characters with an intelligence and grasp of humor far beyond their given age. Keep the focus on intelligent banter, the challenge of being young while training to fight a war, the pain of being different and hated and the tragedy of five teenagers having to grow up much faster than most. It shouldn't seem normal that these people are more interesting and mature than most of their peers, but it should be clear that they are, thus keeping the subject matter serious and intelligent.

And the costumes wouldn't be leather, dammit. At least not most of it. And if you think I'd have them be all black, you clearly haven't been paying attention.

 

[Herr Logan]

A hopeful pessimistic misanthrope with a strong desire for justice.

Is that a question?

By the way, my arguing against your statements regarding my idea is in no way intended to get you to stop commenting. I appreciate very much that you're discussing this and giving it due consideration.

 

[Herr Logan]

One of the episodes of the X-men I saw had a fight scene in it. A static shot with characters charging across the screen, thrown across the screen, and so on. It did nothing for me. Meanwhile, with Batman, it was all fluid, movie like. (Anime like.)

All the anime I've been pestered to watch by my fanatic friend has left me completely cold to it. BTAS was a superior cartoon for far more reasons than it having been animated by various Asian production companies.

So take these comments with a grain of salt.

I'm way ahead of you.

 

[Kni-Ton]

Permission granted. Welcome to the Haven.

Thanks!

My idea for a Fantastic Four movie is a lot larger in scale than the 2005 film. It is more epic, and fantastic. There is no holding back, an evident flaw in the 2005 film which obviously made the entire film an origin so they wouldn't have to go epic right away.

It begins with Reed Richards and Victor Von Doom in college. They are room-mates. There is an obvious tension between the two of them. Reed just wants to be friends and likes to help Doom with his projects. But Doom obviousloy does not think much of friendship and wants to work alone. One night Reed hears something in the college lab, he gets up and investigates. He sees Doom in the lab, working on a strange machine. He questions Doom. Doom is shocked at Reed's prescence, and immediately gets hostile. Reed tries to calm the situation down by asking exactly what Doom is making (he knows Doom loves to gloat). Doom explains he has created a machine that can open a portal to another dimension, and that it is finally ready and he plans to open it. Reed tries to talk him out of it, and it leads to a fight. In the scuffle, the portal is accidentally opened. Doom starts cackling with glee, yelling about how he has built something far superior to what Reed has ever built. Reed tries to turn off the machine, but Doom pushes him away. Doom does not notice the portal is starting to get eratic. Energy shoots out, and blasts Doom in the face. Reed turns off the machine. Immediately security comes in to handle the situation. Doom leaves the college to go back home to Latveria. Reed is racked with guilt in how he failed to stop the machine, which injured Victor.

Fast forward years later. Reed is an accomplished scientist and lives with his girlfriend, Sue Storm. He has a good friendship with Ben Grimm, an air force pilot. Johnny, Sue's little brother, usually hangs around.

Victor Von Doom has been appearing in the news a lot. He has grown up to become king of Latveria, and his views often clash with the United Nations.

Reed has been working on an experiment, and it is finally ready. A large scale version of Victor's experiment back in college. A portal to the Negative Zone. Reed plans to lead an expedition into the Negative Zone, with Ben piloting the ship, and Sue and Johnny as passengers. Reed is surprised that they are able to come, despite their lack of any scientific expertise. But Boris, head of the company, doesn't seem to have a problem with it. After all, this experiment will only benefit.. VON DOOM INDUSTRIES.

Yes, Von Doom has become so succesful that he has a company in America. And Reed is working for this company. Doom does not actually run it, instead leaving his faithful associate Boris to run the show. But on the day of the expedition, Doom is going to visit.

Doom arrives at New York City. The press is everywhere. Doom steps out of the plane. He is wearing a green pin-striped business suit. Along with a darker green cape and hood. And a vicous-looking iron mask. Doom has always been known as being eccentric. Doom is barking orders to his business associates, as he storms into the Baxter Building, home of Von Doom Industries. He enters the test site, where a huge version of his experiment back in college stands. Doom quiets down his associates, and steps up to take a closer look. As he walks, he passes Reed Richards, and catches his eye. He walks past with the most hateful look on his face. Reed explains to Sue how he knew Doom back in his college years.

Doom studies the machine. "Good." He mutters. He walks away. Johnny comments on how spooky he is.

The experiment begins. The four board the ship. The portal opens. The ship nears the Negative Zone. They brace themselves as they pass through the portal. Reed breathes a sign of relief as he discovers they are unharmed. Everyone in the building claps. Except Doom. Who just stares with his arms folded.

Reed, Ben, Sue and Johnny watch in amazement at the world around them. There appears to be no signs of life. Suddenly, a bad thing happens. The ship is blasted with a ray of energy, like the one that scarred Doom. Reed says the shields should protect them. But the ship continues to be blasted with energy. Then it breaks through. The four are bathed in the energy. A light flashes. The ship disappears, and reappears back on earth, on a beach. Reed staggers out of the ship. His friends scattered around the beach. Where are they?

TO BE CONTINUED.