Zaphod said:
Thank you kindly Herr. I intend to peice together a script treatment for these particular scenario's, and by ''intend'' I refer to the thought of doing so which resides at the very back of my mind, clinging to the thought of one day surfacing and becoming real. So, y'know, dont hold out...
I haven't even seen the second half of your Spider-Man movie concept. I don't see myself holding my breath in the hopes of seeing
anything from you in a timely manner!
Hmm. I understand where your coming from there, and in regard to her character and the determination she sustains in the face of adverstiy, I agree that she should be portrayed as such. I would certainly have her doubting Bruce, and her hopelessness should stem from the powerlessness of her situation as a Dr (treating repeat drug offenders) into the fact that she has failed to help Bruce along the correct path. I wouldn't have her severely depressed though. She is still a fighter.
I definitely want Leslie to be someone who hasn't become cynical, although she speaks in a slightly cynical fashion. I want her to be one of the Batman's great beacons of hope that motivate him to do his part. Even though she couldn't deter Bruce from his path, she shouldn't blame herself and shouldn't dwell on it. Even if he's turned to violence and scare tactics, he's not the monster he wants people to think he is and he is, in a twisted way, coping with what happened to his family.
You know, it's funny how Leslie's position on the Batman was completely backwards--
Dr. Leslie Thompkins: You seem quieter than usual tonight.
Batman: Every year I come here and wonder if it should be the last time, if I should put the past behind me, try to lead a normal life.
Dr. Leslie Thompkins: Santayana says, Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
Batman: He also said a fanatic is someone who redoubles his efforts while losing sight of his goal.
I could totally see that exchange going in the reverse.
That sounds good, and I would prefer this course of direction to that of the Joe Chill plot from Begins. There should be a strong focus throughout the movie on Bruce's frustration and rage at the injustice and unfairness of the legal system in failing to catch and punish the murderer of his parents. It is these emotions which inspire him to become a detective, to prevent such things from happening again.
The title sounds cool aswell.
Exactly. I think it should be outright stated that Bruce took a path to becoming the World's Greatest Detective because he can't stand the idea that a horrible crime could go unsolved. That, and the more localized motivation of wanting to be able to solve that one case himself. He may never do it, but he refuses to see it happen against and let it go unpunished.
Would Bruce be shown as becoming increasingly more distant and reclusive a child after his parents murder? Even if he is to be portrayed as a "serious-minded" child before the said occurence, there should still be a notable change in Bruce's behavour, in the time bridging his parents murder and when he first begins hus 'journey'.
So your basically saying that a young Bruce would begin his training to some degree or another before he first set's out from Gotham at 14? How could this be portrayed? Preferably Bruce would be heavy into reading, using his fathers immense library at Wayne Manor to read up and study on the subjects he needs in his journey, such as law, medicine etc. Would he be training physically at this age? I imagine to some degree or another he would be, just not to the extreme he would be later.
Yeah, absolutely. I didn't mean to leave any of that out. Bruce was a serious, pensive boy (aside from him being shown jumping around and pretending to swing a sword on the sidewalk directly after seeing the Zorro movie, right before his childhood is swiftly put to death forever.
After the murders, he's almost completely withdrawn and humorless, seemingly beyond help. I think he should be shown having been sent to various psychologists as a child, but ultimately allowed to live his own life, since his schoolwork (after a grace period of a few months after the murders) didn't suffer but instead became almost flawless. In addition, he's been working out in a gymnasium installed in the manor since the age of 10. Perhaps Alfred could suggest he take up an Olympics-type athletic career, since exercise it seems to keep him occupied and relaxed, and he is, from everything Alfred has researched on child athletes in training, just about the strongest, fastest, and most tireless young man in the world (although no one knows this but Alfred and Leslie). Bruce will say he isn't interested in games or glory. He's got goals in mind that have nothing to with trophies and medals.
I figure that throughout the montages and brief scenes of his childhood, Alfred will respectfully offer his opinions and advice, but, respecting his wishes and independence and not presuming it's his place to decide his fate as long as he isn't endangering himself, not push too hard one way or another. Leslie Thompkins, however, will argue fiercely for what she thinks is best for Bruce (to Bruce himself, not just to Alfred), sensing the growing darkness in him and worrying about what he's missing out on as much as what he may be setting himself up for. Each time she is shown doing that, Bruce Wayne, as a child, will calmly and logically explain his reasons and that he will keep doing it his way. Leslie will argue with Alfred over this as well, since she wants him to take a firm hand, but ultimately (after Bruce leaves Gotham) will not blame him. While any good doctor will tell you a 10-14 year-old boy should not be doing college-level athletic training, Bruce is doing well, injuring himself very little, at very wide intervals, and he's filling his head with more knowledge than anyone his age would even dream of taking on. The way he's been learning, he could very well be a great doctor, like his father-- which Leslie wants-- but it isn't Leslie's or anyone else's right to tell him what direction he should take. How can you force a child to stop improving himself if he's not overtly hurting anyone? That's Alfred's way of thinking, and Leslie has to accept it's the only one to accept if Bruce won't change his mind. The Wayne's would have encouraged Bruce to make his own decisions, which is why Alfred doesn't take a strong stand one way or another, and when he reiterates that to Leslie, it finally makes her tone down her objections.
Bruce gets a GED at age 14 and, with Alfred's blessing, leaves Gotham, learning all over the country, at different colleges, and around the world. He won't graduate from any college, but he'll learn a lot and score highly on various tests that will allow him to learn in more specialized environments, like the FBI.
How would you depict Bruce's training in the FBI? I imagine Bruce would study the law and partake in the physical excerise and training of being an agent. Also, he should be well versed in weaponry, even though he will have no use for them later on for the most part.
It would be just like in 'The Man Who Falls,' where Bruce stays in Washington, DC for a while (at age 20), having scored extremely highly on the test to start real training (but poorly on target shooting... while Bruce's aim is probably better than even Alfred's, he doesn't want it on any record that he can shoot a gun well, which he hates doing anyway) and accepted despite not having a college degree.
In the story I mentioned above, he stayed for a few short weeks, learns very little of use, confirms for himself that that he can't work within the system due to it being too restricting and hung up on clumsy procedures. I might revise that slightly so that he learns forensics techniques and spends some time with the Behavioral Science Unit, where he learns a lot about psychological profiling and predicting the behavior of pathological criminals (which will come into play more in future movies, which the more deranged villains of his rogues gallery).
He'll travel the world, learning martial arts, survival skills (including the use of bolas and boomerangs), spiritual philosophies and techniques that will augment his physical and intellectual power (the ability to suppress pain, speed healing, enhance his response time and his physical senses, even more insight on how to read people), and man hunting techniques.
Wikipedia sums it up right here pretty nicely:
Bruce Wayne swore an oath to rid the city of the evil that had taken his parents' lives. He spent his youth traveling the world, training himself to intellectual and physical perfection and learning a variety of crime-fighting skills, including criminology, forensics, martial arts, gymnastics, and disguise. At age 14, Bruce Wayne began his global sojourn, attending courses at Cambridge, the Sorbonne, and other European universities. Beyond academia, Bruce acquired more "practical" skills. While abroad, Bruce learned all 127 major styles of combat, from Aikido to Yaw-Yan. Frenchman Henri Ducard made him an apprentice in manhunting. The ninja Kirigi schooled Bruce in stealth and the ways of the shadow warrior. African Bushmen taught hunting techniques, while Nepalese monks revealed healing arts.
The sequences from 'The Man Who Falls' regarding Kirigi should remain pretty much the same, but while that story didn't go in depth at all into what Kirigi was teaching Bruce Wayne, I think some brief exposition should be put there in the movie, and Bruce should learn most of the stuff he learned from Movie!Ducard in 'Batman Begins' there, meaning the stealth/ninja stuff.
Just like in 'The Man Who Falls,' Bruce will leave after about a year or so instead of staying on to become forged in Kirigi's image. That martial arts master stays up in his temple and has pupils do chores until they're worthy of learning how to fight, and he does basically nothing for the world with his knowledge. While Bruce doesn't begrudge him this, he has no interest in that kind of life. He has a mission, and what he learned from Kirigi is a means to an end (even though there will never truly be an "end"), not a way of life he wishes to pursue. While he learns from those at peace, he will never be at peace. Nothing he learns is for its own sake, but a weapon in his arsenal.
Are you suggesting on having the entirety of the movies events as linear, or only past Bruce's emergence as Batman. If the latter, than I agree. I think the structure of the narrative in the first act of the movie should play out much like that of Begins though.
I was thinking of having the whole movie basically be linear, but I suppose there could be some staggering. It feels like it would be somewhat clumsy. There's nothing in Bruce's training that will come back to haunt him in the first movie, and there's no one except Alfred that Bruce will confide in the way he did Movie!Ducard in 'Begins'. In the comics, Henri Ducard came into Bruce's life and posed a threat in the story arch 'Blind Justice', but Bruce didn't really make any arch-enemies in his global journey. He's just getting an education so he can begin the real fight.
I don't see an ideal way to alternate timeframes. I can see Bruce explaining all that happened to him in those years after he comes back home, but that's not much of a continuity mix-up.
Great work! Let me know my comments and then perhaps we could peice together one clear plot to the whole thing once all things are sorted.
Thanks. Great ideas from you as well, and I look forward to a collaborative treatment.
