San Francisco At It Again

[Matt]

It works in the UK, France and Italy. Ok, someone take advantage of it, but not the majority of the people.

And you're talking about 3 entirely different societies, cultures, etc. Just because something works somewhere, doesn't mean it will somewhere else. Look at Iraq. Democracy works in the US. It doesn't in Iraq. Whats good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

And you're talking about 3 entirely different societies, cultures, etc. Just because something works somewhere, doesn't mean it will somewhere else. Look at Iraq. Democracy works in the US. It doesn't in Iraq. Whats good for the goose isn't always good for the gander.

Maybe because democracy is something that has to spring from the population itself and not brought with the weapons by a foreign government.
And aren't we western capitalists all the same? Same needs (I-Pods, Windows Vista, Coca cola) and way of thinking?

 

[Matt]

Maybe because democracy is something that has to spring from the population itself and not brought with the weapons by a foreign government.
And aren't we western capitalists all the same? Same needs (I-Pods, Windows Vista, Coca cola) and way of thinking?

Not at all. Study economics, then have this debate without simplifying everything.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

Not at all. Study economics, then have this debate without simplifying everything.

I was sarcastic.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Stop being so ****ing naive then . If you think for a second most people won't take advantage of their paid days off and then call off anyway you are crazy.

Second, you don't seem to grasp...just like it is money out of their pocket if they call off, it is also money out of my pocket for a service I did not get.

yes, we must protect ourselves from employee exploitation
some people are lazy, hence all people must be lazy, and if not? tough **** right?
that's being simplistic, plain and simple.

second, like I told you, I have owned and ran businesses for a long time since I was really young, so I have a really healthy sense of where money must go.
the better care you take of your employees the better care they take of you.
simple as that. sure, some might take advantage of the system?
the words that best describe my feeling about this are

yeah?
and
so
what?

 

[StorminNorman]

I love how people are talking about how this is such a great thing because it protects the "individuals" and prevents evil corporate America from taking advantage of the little guy. These sick days and minimum wage heights cut into the bottom line for businesses (big and small) and so inorder to make up for it they RAISE prices for everyone. That and jobs have to start letting go of employees. So it works agianst the very people these advantages are trying to protect.

Do many workers deserve benefits? Sure.
Should the Government FORCE businesses to do it? No.
Does everyone deserve 9 days of free days? No.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Does everyone deserve 9 days of free days? No.

what percentage of our lives do you think we should work?
seriously.

 

[StorminNorman]

what percentage of our lives do you think we should work?
seriously.

It doesn't matter of much we should work - it is how much we have to work. I am not dealing with ideal worlds and ideal situations. In reality, you have to work as often as your bosses need and ask you too - if you don't you get fired. If you think your situation is not where you want to be, you work harder and try to move up in the business world.

If you want benefits, then you need to make yourself valuable enough to deserve those benefits - through education, experience, etc. An unskilled worker does not deserve benefits.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

In reality, you have to work as often as your bosses need and ask you too

actually, this is not true.
hence making the rest of it kind of moot.

 

[StorminNorman]

actually, this is not true.
hence making the rest of it kind of moot.

If you don't work, you get fired. I dont see the fallacy in my statement.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

If you don't work, you get fired. I dont see the fallacy in my statement.

that's not what you stated.
I even quoted you, you know? for veracity.

 

[Matt]

yes, we must protect ourselves from employee exploitation
some people are lazy, hence all people must be lazy, and if not? tough **** right?
that's being simplistic, plain and simple.

Come now, it is human nature. If you give an inch people take a mile.

second, like I told you, I have owned and ran businesses for a long time since I was really young, so I have a really healthy sense of where money must go.
the better care you take of your employees the better care they take of you.
simple as that. sure, some might take advantage of the system?
the words that best describe my feeling about this are

Yes, it is good to take care of employees. My employees drink in my bar for free any time they aren't on the clock. However, to require me to pay them for sick days is ridiculous.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Come now, it is human nature. If you give an inch people take a mile.

damn their lazy morlock asess

Yes, it is good to take care of employees. My employees drink in my bar for free any time they aren't on the clock. However, to require me to pay them for sick days is ridiculous.

no, dude, Useful stuff.

 

[StorminNorman]

that's not what you stated.
I even quoted you, you know? for veracity.

I stated that "in you have to work when your boss tells you to work." Again - if you do not, you get fired. I fail to see your point.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

you would.

 

[Matt]

damn their lazy morlock asess

no, dude, Useful stuff.

Like 58 dollars out of my pocket for a shift they did not work?

 

[hippie_hunter]

It works in the UK, France and Italy. Ok, someone take advantage of it, but not the majority of the people.

Actually, it's biting France in the ass.

 

[StorminNorman]

In France you can't even fire employee's.

 

[sinewave]

we're talking about one day here and there. income for businesses fluctuate from day to day. it means a hell of a lot more tot he employee to miss a days worth of wages than it does the employer. they'll make it up, while it's tougher for the employee to do so. the employees are actually doing the back-breaking work and usually for little more than a pat on the back. they deserve a paid day off here and there if they're actually sick. otherwise it gives the impression that the owner couldn't care less about them. it's not their fault they get sick respect the worker and your business will be better for it.

 

[Caliber]

I'm glad, people can't help it if they're sick.

Tell that to people who think people will just abuse this policy. Minimum wage isn't good enough. It should be atleast 7 dollars since most of the people working for minimum wage don't have good jobs.

 

[StorminNorman]

we're talking about one day here and there. income for businesses fluctuate from day to day. it means a hell of a lot more tot he employee to miss a days worth of wages than it does the employer. they'll make it up, while it's tougher for the employee to do so. the employees are actually doing the back-breaking work and usually for little more than a pat on the back. they deserve a paid day off here and there if they're actually sick. otherwise it gives the impression that the owner couldn't care less about them. it's not their fault they get sick respect the worker and your business will be better for it.

In most small businesses, they can not afford to have people taking off 9 days WITH FULL PAY. Add that to a 9+ dollar minimum wage (much more than a pat on the back) and its a wonder how any small business can survive in San Francisco.

I do not have a problem with sick days - they are a great benefit, however they should not be GOVERNMENT MANDATED. If a company wants to recruit the top talent and use sick days as an incentive to sign with them - great. But to guarantee a sick day to a worker at McDonalds is stupid.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

never mind.

 

[sinewave]

In most small businesses, they can not afford to have people taking off 9 days WITH FULL PAY. Add that to a 9+ dollar minimum wage (much more than a pat on the back) and its a wonder how any small business can survive in San Francisco.

I do not have a problem with sick days - they are a great benefit, however they should not be GOVERNMENT MANDATED. If a company wants to recruit the top talent and use sick days as an incentive to sign with them - great. But to guarantee a sick day to a worker at McDonalds is stupid.

read my earlier post. you're being unrealistic.

 

[hippie_hunter]

How is he being unrealistic?

 

[Darthphere]

I just love the blatant disrespect for fry cooks and Wal-Mart greeters here. Ok, that was funny, but theres some truth in it. Its pretty sad how some of you guys look down on these people. Says a lot about our society as a whole.