Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

[Kev4000]

I think it is very obvious Cercei going mad and Jaime has to be the one, who killed her. Maximum Drama.

 

[KevTravels]

I'm really amazed that anyone in the Lannister or Tyrell army would not question whether the Mother of Dragons would use her dragons against them. I mean come on, it's her nuclear arsenal. They're going to be used. Especially as they see her as a mad villain with an army of foreign savages. How could anyone willingly join a war against her?

 

[MurkeNyou]

I think something got screwed up, Eastwatch is episode 6, not 5. 5 is Blood of the Dragon.

 

[The Big G]

When your cousin becomes your new dad

 

[godisawesome]

Dany didn't do anything worthy of distrust in last episode, but her conduct after winning the new Burning Fields *could* be where Tyrion and Varys start to get leery. Her preview intimidation of Jon Snow and her lines while accepting the surrender of the troops could imply she starts to take too firm of a hand towards both her defeated enemies and potential allies-- not necessarily in regards to her conquering the Seven Kingdoms, but in regards to her ruling them.

Sociologically speaking, a decent chunk of the damage the Lannisters have inflicted upon the realm is towards the political and societal infrastructure; not only have they, and unfortunately Dany, wrecked up the material food supplies of the continent, their actions towards the feudal lords and common folk have damaged the stability and interconnectedness of the realm. Towns and villages are less likely to trade with each other if they think a rapacious army is going to come through, see you traded with someone they don't like, and kill you, or see that you have stuff they want and they don't want to trade with you, and kill you.

Dany *could* risk worsening that damage if she recklessly burns everyone who refuses to immediately bend the knee. She needs to have enough finesse and patience for diplomacy, especially if she wants to avoid more risks to her inheritance. If you kill off all the wary lords before talking to them, you can't control the Kingdoms.

More specifically, it could be that Varys and Tyrion look at Dany being a little capricious towards Lannister and Tarly holdouts, and worry she'll start applying the screws to Jon. Jon's objections to bending the knee are *not* about his pride. It's about his people in the North refusing to follow a Southerner's orders, when they need the South's support for the Long Night. Killing Jon could permanently lose the North for Dany; the books make it clear that tiny little Dorne managed a decentralized resistance tough enough that dragons died, and the North is basically Dorne with the size of the rest of the Kingdoms.

 

[HammerDown]

Epic.

 

[KevTravels]

How vital is the North to Westeros? It's the largest portion, but has a small population comparably. But does it have many resources at all?

Or is it simply if you allow Jon to claim the North as his own, then perhaps other kingdoms would do the same? Because she really doesn't need the North so much as long as Jon is just her ally. And she knows he will be against the Lannisters.

But maybe it's just this incessant need for total domination by her and Stannis before. Renly at least held the option that Robb could be King. Why dominate a region so far away, when you could compromise and have them as allies.

 

[squeekness]

I'm really amazed that anyone in the Lannister or Tyrell army would not question whether the Mother of Dragons would use her dragons against them. I mean come on, it's her nuclear arsenal. They're going to be used. Especially as they see her as a mad villain with an army of foreign savages. How could anyone willingly join a war against her?

They probably assumed the dragons weren't even real until it was too late.

 

[Schlosser85]

Jamie looked shocked to see Drogon. I think, even after hearing about the dragons, a lot of people didn't fully believe in them until they see them with their own eyes.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think the whole point of Jaime's viewpoint is how awful what she did was. You can kill people, and you can torture them while you kill them. And she does this all while screaming its mine (its not) and ignoring the fact that dudes who can kill her dragons are getting dangerously close to the wrong side of the Wall.

If what the preview for this episode suggest happens does happen, Dany is straight up in Mad King territory.

Those same people probably just got done butchering, raping and torturing a whole city full of innocent civilians. They excuse it by saying they are away at war.

 

[Silvermoon]

They probably assumed the dragons weren't even real until it was too late.

Jamie looked shocked to see Drogon. I think, even after hearing about the dragons, a lot of people didn't fully believe in them until they see them with their own eyes.

Or even if some of them did believe they were real, they may not have believed them to be as big as Drogon has gotten (as dragons that big hadn't been around for a very very very long time...remember Tyrion before he goes down to unchain the two beneath the Pyramid in Mereen was talking about how, due to captivity, the last dragons - before they died out - weren't much bigger than house cats).

 

[Kane52630]

Considering the episode is called Eastwatch, I can't wait to see what Beric, Hound, and Thoros are up to...

 

[KevTravels]

They probably assumed the dragons weren't even real until it was too late.

which is weird since Cerei and Jaime were aware of them and considered them a threat. Surely if your liege lord does, an average infantryman should as well.

 

[The Big G]

Thats the thing with Dragons...hearing about them is one thing....seeing them turn your men to literal ash is another.

 

[Loki882]

Not really, because your lords tend to know more/have access to more information than your average common man (and don't always share said information either).

Also I find the attempts to paint what Dany did during that battle as being "bad" really amusing. Because what she did, is what she should have done. If you have a "secret weapon to end the battle quicker," YOU USE IT!! Otherwise, you're an idiot.

 

[Silver Surfer]

I'm glad Danny came to her senses and started to assert herself again, Tyron is in way over his head and will lose her this war. I'm glad she put him in his place and called him out for his conflict of interest.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

I think something got screwed up, Eastwatch is episode 6, not 5. 5 is Blood of the Dragon.

Really?

http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/episodes/7/65-65-eastwatch/index.html

 

[KevTravels]

Not really, because your lords tend to know more/have access to more information than your average common man (and don't always share said information either).

Also I find the attempts to paint what Dany did during that battle as being "bad" really amusing. Because what she did, is what she should have done. If you have a "secret weapon to end the battle quicker," YOU USE IT!! Otherwise, you're an idiot.

Agreed. I think it was quite smart of her to keep the other 2 at Dragonstone. Only needed 1 dragon to make her presence felt.

 

[MurkeNyou]

Really?

http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/episodes/7/65-65-eastwatch/index.html

Given they are in Eastwatch in Episode 6 and not episode 5, it does seem strange. I could swear it was listed as Blood of the Dragon just last night.

 

[DACrowe]

When your cousin becomes your new dad

 

[DACrowe]

Not really, because your lords tend to know more/have access to more information than your average common man (and don't always share said information either).

Also I find the attempts to paint what Dany did during that battle as being "bad" really amusing. Because what she did, is what she should have done. If you have a "secret weapon to end the battle quicker," YOU USE IT!! Otherwise, you're an idiot.

Indeed. Imagine if she had done that at the beginning. Land at Highgarden instead of Dragonstone (better to protect her agricultural and financially flush ally) and then used the dragons to raze Casterly Rock and cook the Lannister army there? Cersei would have no army and they could have practically skipped into King's Landing. But no, let us save the dragons and then spend an extra month or however long it takes to try and take Casterly Rock in a sneaky covert way.

Love Tyrion, but his battle strategy has been lousy. He apparently is much better at defense than offense. Hopefully Dany gets Jorah back for military strategy soon, because she does need a cooler head to check her bloodlust, but Tyrion so far has not been it, and Jon is too busy going on about White Walkers and some such.

 

[Loki882]

I chalk it up more to bad writing than anything else. The big flaw this season for me has been the writers ignoring logic (well they've done that before, but it's especially noticeable here) to try and make it seem like Cersei has a chance of winning.

 

[Boom]

I don't think the conversation between Jon, Davos, and Messandei was an accident. If Dany keeps going down this path, I could see several of her most trusted advisers jumping ship. Messandei included.

Given the show's penchant for killing off fan-favorites, the building tension between Dany and Tyrion is a cause for concern. Especially if Jaime ends up getting taken as prisoner and Tyrion needs to make a decision.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I dont really see the ending last night as Dany repudiating Tyrion. She was pissed at him for the situation with the Unsullied at Casterly Rock but in the end she didnt turn the dragons on King's Landing or another populated city. She attacked a military unit/caravan out in the middle of nowhere and likely eliminated a good chunk of the Lannister Army in the process. Tyrion's advice was basically don't reign terror down on the populace you intend to rule. She didn't.

 

[Boom]

Also, just sitting here waiting for Bran to drop the [blackout]"Jon's a Targaryen"[/blackout] truth bomb.