Should they make another Punisher movie? - Part 1

[Whiskey Tango]

Punisher '04 made nearly $55 million WW on a $33 million budget. Add another $60 mil in dvd sales, and that's before the extended cut rerelease or the bluray. That's not a failure by any stretch.

 

[MadVillainy]

I disagree that Jane movie seemed more like the ultimate Punisher movie. It was my favorite one and the best; but there is a large room for improvement film wise

I'd prefer a film to TV, but I wouldnt mind TV if they get the character right

 

[Lord]

Not exactly the Ultimate Punisher movie, i'm sorry if i exagerated it, but while there was room for improvement i tought that the movie got the character right and it was a good way to introduce the character, i don't understand why they tought it was a failure either, with a movie like that it's not as if they can make much more profit

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It could've made a good sight more if LG hadn't foolishly opened it against Kill Bill. But that leads back through the whole troubled production which at this point I don't even feel like rehashing.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

I would wait until 2018/2019 to make another Punisher film. And use that Taxi Driver idea Thomas Jane had.

 

[metaphysician]

I suspect that the problem with the Jane Punisher movie was marketing. Regardless, it was by far the more successful movie, so if your going to try to do another one, best to take qeues from it over War Zone.

 

[Team Andino]

Since they could never get a sequel going for the Thomas Jane Punisher movie, I would of loved a HBO or Showtime series following up the movie. Have it follow Castle as he goes city to city taking on the biggest crime bosses and build to something big in NYC.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

I suspect that the problem with the Jane Punisher movie was marketing. Regardless, it was by far the more successful movie, so if your going to try to do another one, best to take qeues from it over War Zone.

WZ would of been good had it had better acting and a plot. Action was good and fit the style of the Punisher.

 

[S. Grundy]

I think I still have that script floating around on a flash drive.

If you can find, I'd love to be able to read that version of the script.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

I rather see a film series then a television one. They just need to find the right people behind a film series.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I blame LGF entirely for the failure of the Punisher on film. The first one was a success and was generally well received, even with its various flaws. The second, however, was doomed from the friggin get-go and LGF did nothing to stop the train wreck. Christ, they even moved the release date to December which was the final nail in Frank's coffin.

In a way, I'm almost glad PWZ tanked so horribly, because LGF just cranked out a movie with a rather crappy script (though I do think it has it's great moments) and crappy production so they could retain the rights. Now that the rights have gone back to Marvel I hope we see them take a stab at it in a few years and do it right.

I love both Jane and Stevenson as The Punisher, so I'd be cool with either of them if they came back. Something tells me they'd try to get Jane back though since most of the general public seemed to really like him.

 

[Daniel Thompson]

They should let another actor get a chance at playing the Punisher.

 

[Lord]

The big mistake was droping Jane and his Punisher movie to start a new continuity with a crapy film, now's too late to get back to Jane, they can only reboot it, continuing the tradiction of the Punisher movies

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It's never too late.

edit: unless he's using a walker.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I don't think it's too late, either. I think getting Jane back would be a big draw for the series. Most people I know didn't even see PWZ when they found out it wasn't a direct sequel. I'm sure many people would kindly ignore PWZ in favour of Jane returning for a sort-of-sequel-that-ignores-PWZ.

Personally, I'd much rather see Jane or Stevenson over another damn recast. Frig, I'd take Dolph back over another recast!

...okay, maybe not Dolph, but still.

 

[S. Grundy]

Yeah, Jane clearly still loves the character, it wouldn't be hard at all to get him, there just needs to be a good script. The movie doesn't even need to be a sequel, semi-sequel or whatever, just a good proper Punisher story.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I kind of like that Punisher in prison idea. Get Jane in on it, vaguely re-portray the origin and subsequent few years of Castle's life in the credits ala TIH, and start the film with Frank being captured and sentenced to Riker's. Shades of those original black and white Punisher Magazines that Mike Zeck penciled.

I would support bringing Hensleigh back too for that matter, although there are plenty of other names that could helm an interesting Punisher flick.

 

[S. Grundy]

When I heard Jane mentioned I kinda thought it would cool it was kinda like The Cell, slightly reworked so that Castle is going after only one of the people responsible.

You really wouldn't even have to do a credit sequence. The movie would just open up like Year One, it's Central Park the sound of gun shots start ringing in the air and it goes right to the aftermath, then cut to the film title and a title card that says 3 years later or whatever length of time, and it's Castle being sentenced to prison, with some quick painless exposition.

As for director Walter Hill.

 

[metaphysician]

Eh, if your going to use Jane, don't retcon the origin. The reworked origin worked really well, there's no good reason to change it.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I thought the reworked origin was one of the worst parts of 04 TBH.


Also, as much as I think a Rykers film would be interesting, my vote still goes to Slavers.

 

[S. Grundy]

Even though we're being theoretical on whether Jane would be asked back, I think regardless Marvel would want to start from scratch. Plus if they wanted to do a flashback about his origin, they wouldn't be able to use the footage from the 2004 film, singe Lionsgate owns it.

Also TBH?

 

[Thundarr]

I thought the reworked origin was one of the worst parts of 04 TBH.


Also, as much as I think a Rykers film would be interesting, my vote still goes to Slavers.

I totally agree, 100% with everything you just posted.

I've said from the beginning that the reworked origins in Punisher '04 ruined the movie for me. Stick to the original origins. There's a reason it works.

And yes, Slavers would make a great movie. Too bad they used The Russian in the '04 movie. He would've been a great addition to a Slavers adaptation.

If not a Slavers adaptation, I'd love to see a Barricuda adaptation. Maybe not a direct adaptation of his introduction (I didn't like Barracuda's boss in the comics), but something along those same lines. Like John Revolta's character sending Barricuda after Castle instead of The Russian. Except it would be a different character played by a different actor, but the same TYPE of character (big time mobster).

 

[metaphysician]

Okay, I'll rephrase: what about the origin in 2004 didn't work? Its basically the same as the comic, only magnified in terms of impact, which is a really useful change to make sure the audience sympathizes with Frank.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Even though we're being theoretical on whether Jane would be asked back, I think regardless Marvel would want to start from scratch. Plus if they wanted to do a flashback about his origin, they wouldn't be able to use the footage from the 2004 film, singe Lionsgate owns it.

Also TBH?

I'm sure they could still do flashbacks from 04. Many studios use older footage from all kinds of films; you just have to pay for it.

Also, TBH = to be honest.

I totally agree, 100% with everything you just posted.

I've said from the beginning that the reworked origins in Punisher '04 ruined the movie for me. Stick to the original origins. There's a reason it works.

And yes, Slavers would make a great movie. Too bad they used The Russian in the '04 movie. He would've been a great addition to a Slavers adaptation.

If not a Slavers adaptation, I'd love to see a Barricuda adaptation. Maybe not a direct adaptation of his introduction (I didn't like Barracuda's boss in the comics), but something along those same lines. Like John Revolta's character sending Barricuda after Castle instead of The Russian. Except it would be a different character played by a different actor, but the same TYPE of character (big time mobster).

Since PWZ already ruined the Bulats, I think they could just use the Gnucci family instead for the Slavers. Ma Gnucci is a great character and would make a great evil villain for that storyline. They could just make Barracuda the personal bodyguard of Ma Gnucci if they went that route, so long as it wasn't too slapstick all around.

Okay, I'll rephrase: what about the origin in 2004 didn't work? Its basically the same as the comic, only magnified in terms of impact, which is a really useful change to make sure the audience sympathizes with Frank.

I thought it was waaaaaay too over the top to the point of absurdity. I don't think making Frank's tragedy "bigger" equates to making it more sympathetic or painful; I think it's quite the opposite, actually. It's much more personal to have him lose his family that matters most: his wife and kids. You don't need that other crap, it's just totally unnecessary. Worse, it doesn't even play into the rest of the movie...there's no warm flashbacks of Frank playing catch with his ol' Pa, or the sweet smell of Mama's baked cookies, or the awkward game of Pictionary with Uncle Bill twice removed...they're not there because they don't need to be, because they're not important to Frank's personal struggle. So, why change the origin to begin with?

Just an example, the best scene in the 04 origin is when Frank is holding his dead wife and kid and crying. All of the other stuff before that doesn't make you feel anything; it's just an action sequence. They could've achieved the same thing, and I'd argue it would've been even more powerful, by sticking to the comics origin. Some of the comics that explore this (Year One, In the Beginning, War Journal #1) have done so in absolutely gut wrenching ways that gets me emotional just reading it, a billion times more than any of the film origins.

Like Thundarr said: there's a reason it works.

 

[The Guard]

I'm not as happy as some here that the Punisher TV show has fallen through (though a friend who is heavy into TV told me she heard an interview otherwise the other day), because let's face it, the Punisher movies didn't exactly clean up, and some more exposure wouldn't have hurt Frank Castle, adaption quality notwithstanding.

I never minded Castle's entire family being killed in the 2004 film. It makes it that much harder for him to find someone to turn to for help when they are dead and his best friend was part of it. I felt a little something when Frank saw his mother shot in 04, and then his family gets just coldly eradicated. The whole approach added to the urgency of the scene. Really, though, I think it was probably done that way to provide a decent sized action sequence, and to separate Frank Castle from all the other characters who have "murdered family members" as their reason for being. It works in the context of the film.

I'd like to see another Punisher movie, and wouldn't mind seeing Jane or Stevenson back.