The Dark Knight Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs

[sasquatchs]

Lol, that's just Wally Pfister's hand

 

[Joe-ker]

Lol, that's just Wally Pfister's hand

*Adjusts my glasses* Ahh... I see your point...

 

[sasquatchs]

There was alot of speculation that there were 2 people in the shot when it was first released that got way out of hand, then they released a larger version t:

....I've been thinking about that as well sas

But what can it mean? I want a team of eggheads working around the clock

 

[Hole Shot]

Lol, that's just Wally Pfister's hand

yes it is

 

[TromaFreak64]

this picture is still just so strange....so different than everything else...

 

[bkey]

Or we haven't seen all the goons. And the one in the foreground with the gun pointed to his head isn't supposed to be heath but a decoy to fish out the traitor and then walks in Joker taking off his mask to reveal to the goon he got the wrong guy.

But spy pics clearly show Heath, with no make up, wearing the same costume and mask as the non-blurry guy in the IMAX picture. Unless the Joker is supposed to have an identical twin or something, which I don't believe, because that is exactly what happens in the Prestige, then I don't think the one is a decoy.

 

[Hole Shot]

But spy pics clearly show Heath, with no make up, wearing the same costume and mask as the non-blurry guy in the IMAX picture. Unless the Joker is supposed to have an identical twin or something, which I don't believe, because that is exactly what happens in the Prestige, then I don't think the one is a decoy.

I'm not suggesting he has an identical twin, but maybe we shouldn't take the spy pics at face value.

 

[Joe-ker]

But spy pics clearly show Heath, with no make up, wearing the same costume and mask as the non-blurry guy in the IMAX picture. Unless the Joker is supposed to have an identical twin or something, which I don't believe, because that is exactly what happens in the Prestige, then I don't think the one is a decoy.

Is it possible that Nolan is using Heath for the character WHILE the mask is on... so that we're almost positive it's him... and then once he's shot and the mask comes off, there's a stand in? I think there's something to the "imposter/decoy" theory. It was part of the theme of the last viral site as well... remember? One lucky fan took a bullet as a stand in for Mr. J?

 

[BubbaGump]

Well if you want to squint in High-def...

 

[BubbaGump]

I like the imposter Joker theory (it goes along with the theme of the multiple Batmans), but it's just that we had that in Begins. It's recycling an old idea, and I hope it's not like that for every new villain introduced.

 

[bkey]

Is it possible that Nolan is using Heath for the character WHILE the mask is on... so that we're almost positive it's him... and then once he's shot and the mask comes off, there's a stand in? I think there's something to the "imposter/decoy" theory. It was part of the theme of the last viral site as well... remember? One lucky fan took a bullet as a stand in for Mr. J?

This is true. I'm really starting to like and buy into this theory.

 

[Hole Shot]

Jesus, was I off! Thanks for the high-def pic, Bubba! I started growing suspicious of what I was seeing when I realized there was no body to go with the "head" I circled.

I like the imposter Joker theory (it goes along with the theme of the multiple Batmans), but it's just that we had that in Begins. It's recycling an old idea, and I hope it's not like that for every new villain introduced.

In Begins it was a major plot point, in this bank robbery situation I believe it would be nothing more than to introduce the character.

 

[Joe-ker]

This is true. I'm really starting to like and buy into this theory.

I've got one on my side... soon I WILL CONVERT YOU ALL! HAhAHAHaHa! Don't believe me? I've ordered a lightning simulator and fog machine to go along with the laugh. When it comes in the mail perhaps you will be more impressed...

 

[stonecold]

really into the snow white theory..i can just feel it is close to the mark.


anyway...hmm..

to me, and this is all just random guessing... i think that there are 2 scenes maybe involving the bank/joker.. firstly.. we know the joker reveals his smile/face to the bank manager .. we think that a bank job is carried out all in masks with the criminals unknowingly having the hidden Joker in their midst.. so in the images he appears to be mostly flesh coloured and normal under the mask. It would make a sort of narrative sense that all this took place in one scene.. criminals betray young joker in mask ( pic holding gun to him ) and then he takes over the job somehow and ultimately reveals his face ( and green hair seemingly ) to the bank manager. A heist, a disguise, sprinklers, a double cross and chaos seem to be a cool way to give onscreen birth to a young killer clown, true to the Jokers roots and to Nolan's duality and puzzlemaking. but the bank manager is played by brilliant actor William Fichtner.. for what..one scene? he's a known strong actor.. i think it might make sense what someone said earlier..that Joker comes back to pay him a visit as a more ornate and complete Joker later in the film. The problem with this.. how long into the film are they going to wait before revealing the Joker? also..is the ziplines / double cross / school bus / bank job stuff all ONE scene? seems complex and strange for a scene quite early in the film... but then again, it would be odd if the fully fledged bomb terroist, hospital slaying, street gunning, semi truck grenade launching psycho joker suddenly went to just robbing banks under a mask... so i think its got to be an early scene. Its got to be a scene where we see the Joker character emerge from his mob tangles and slowly into a more unhinged, killer jester life of his own. Sorry this is a messy post.. i just cant untangle it... but i think green haired smiling joker is disguised as a normal criminal , a normal person, but he cant help but break out..

To me, Joker in Dark Knight is literally a blank white empty sociopath hidden beneath an ornate killer clown (Joker), ( who here is also pretending to be a normal criminal hiding behind a clown mask ) He is an erased person, empty. permanent scars, impermanent make up, violated skin, punctured layers of madness and hollowness. u know it makes sense. ..'if you peel a mans skin piece by piece..' Joker is an unsolvable puzzle, no empathy, a true psychopath. layers which reveal nothing but pure insanity, no meaning, no humanity.. just blankness, whiteness ( perma white ). sometimes he appears to be a cop, a criminal.. he is a blank nobody that creates this obscene world around him, he is a joke about mass murder told into nothing that only he finds funny, a puzzle that drives even Batman insane. He is the greatest villain ever conceived.

maybe the early school bus filming is not for the bank scene at all.... and related to the later school bus / hospital explosion scene... i might be confused.

maybe the bank manager messes up the young bank-robbing double-crossed joker in an early bank robbery, maybe in league with the others criminals? ... one of those security shutters coming up and slicing Joker up? ..then the Joker returns later as full green haired toxic maniac demon jester to kill him. but i doubt this!! as i think its batman who causes his injuries..but who knows? but in all probability we are going to see Joker slaying and terrifying a stand up guy..a good citizen, a bank manager who's last sight is of a mask being pulled back to show the face of pure supersubhuman insanity grinning back at him and laughing at the world while he sends a bullet through his head.

 

[bkey]

but the bank manager is played by brilliant actor William Fichtner.. for what..one scene? he's a known strong actor..

Rade Serbedzija, the actor who played "Homeless Man" aka the "nice coat" guy in BB is an award winning actor, but he had like what, one minute total of screen time, and was in the movie only for comic relief. So I wouldnt bet too much on him having an even semi-big role just because he is a good actor.

 

[Joe-ker]

Rade Serbedzija, the actor who played "Homeless Man" aka the "nice coat" guy in BB is an award winning actor, but he had like what, one minute total of screen time, and was in the movie only for comic relief. So I wouldnt bet too much on him having an even semi-big role just because he is a good actor.

That's a good point... Sometimes you're just right for the role... big or small.

 

[stonecold]

That's a good point... Sometimes you're just right for the role... big or small.

true... and this film can cast anyone, we know Nolan sees filling out the cast with strong supporting actors as a way of ensuring the universe in the film is solid and classy.. and the film feels right 360

 

[Mr. Socko]

Well if you want to squint in High-def...

If you look at the Joker closely in that HD pic, look at the tip of his forehead and you'll notice that it's flesh toned, certainly not the same color white as the rest of the face.

As for everyone theorizing about the scene. I'm guessing the Joker robs the bank again(wearing the same clothes I know). That or he has a decoy dressed just like him with the same mask(more likely I think).

 

[Luchastyle]

there will be no fake joker. nolan stated time and time again that it would be dumb to use the same formula from begins in tdk. so they definitely aren't going to do the same thing. that's a guarantee. bubbagump's multiple choice, rashoman idea would be fantastic. if they had joker looking different through out the movie and all kinds of different stories and origins, that would be so cool to me.

 

[Hole Shot]

there will be no fake joker. nolan stated time and time again that it would be dumb to use the same formula from begins in tdk. so they definitely aren't going to do the same thing. that's a guarantee. bubbagump's multiple choice, rashoman idea would be fantastic. if they had joker looking different through out the movie and all kinds of different stories and origins, that would be so cool to me.

We're not really suggesting a fake Joker being a element of the story, but just introducing the character for the first time with a little suspense rather than just have him appear.

Very brief half ass cliff notes of what I'm thinking:

- Traitor goon points gun at goon he thinks is the Joker and shoots him the back.

- Traitor goon gets shot in the chest from off screen

- Another goon dressed as the goon that was shot in back approaches the dying traitor and takes off mask to reveal himself as Joker.


I don't see that as a being very similar to Ra's.

 

[Luchastyle]

We're not really suggesting a fake Joker being a element of the story, but just introducing in the character for the first time with a little suspense rather than just have him appear.

Very brief half ass cliff notes of what I'm thinking:

- Traitor goon points gun at goon he thinks is the Joker and shoots him the back.

- Traitor goon gets shot in the chest from off screen

- Another goon dressed as the goon that was shot in back approaches the dying traitor and takes off mask to reveal himself as Joker.


I don't see that as a being very similar to Ra's.

no. it's not entirely similar to ra's. i don't know if that would be very cool though. i don't know. doesn't sound necessary. but then again, we have no idea what is going on in the story at the time.

 

[Hole Shot]

Well, don't use my little synopsis to judge the scene. That's just a totally bare bones idea of what I'm thinking

 

[sasquatchs]

I like it, it's amusing. At least it would immediately show Joker is on the ball, you'd kind of have to be insane or very ambitious to be a part of his gang. Definitely an area they can improve over B89

 

[Hole Shot]

There are two things that make me certain some type of double cross happens during the bank robbery

1 - the picture well know of the goon pointing his gun at (who we assume is) Heath.

2 - the zipline escape video. Next time you watch, notice that two goons ride the zipline to the other building. Once they get across there is break in the video. Then it comes back on and the two goons run to the roof top door and the zipline is sagging.

 

[bkey]

Has anyone mentioned that maybe the goon in the background isn't pointing his gun at Heath but perhaps the bank manager standing in front of him off camera or other bystanders?