So is a Cyclops fan gonna hate this show?

[EnDz0n3]

So basically [BLACKOUT]Cyclops becomes a villain and Jean and Wolverine end up together? [/BLACKOUT] ugh

 

[ShadowBoxing]

So basically [blackout]Cyclops becomes a villain and Jean and Wolverine end up together? [/blackout] ugh

Have you ever read AOA? because Jean and Scott end up together in it. Cyclops isn't a "villain" either, he kills Maximus the Mad, frees Jean and Polaris from Sinister and saves the humans from Apocalypse, sacrificing himself in the process.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Admittedly it's been a while since i've read the series but Cyclops does start out as a villain, and Jean and Wolverine do work together and share a lot of scenes together don't they? Or am I completely remembering it wrong?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Admittedly it's been a while since i've read the series but Cyclops does start out as a villain, and Jean and Wolverine do work together and share a lot of scenes together don't they? Or am I completely remembering it wrong?

Cyclop's storyline is pretty straightfoward. Xavier had been assassinated, thusly he never saves Scott from Sinister's orphanage, and both he and Alex become Prelates for Sinister. While Alex (Havok) is blindly loyal, Cyclops consciously objects to Sinister's treatment of his subjects and Apocalypse's rule. He secretly sabotages their operations from the inside. So no, he does not 'start out a villain', at least he never does anything villainous.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

To watch AOA, go here, it's in Spanish http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ZSS5LHR6

 

[Nature's Rising]

If you like Cyclops as an effective leader, then no you won't. Cyclops has been told a lot by Logan in more than 1 episode, so it might hurt some of the fans' egos. Especially in ep. 13

Spoiler

when I tell you to get ready, you get ready

ouch.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I think people are overplaying Cyclop's treatment in this show. I've seen the last several episodes and they are fairly kind to him, especially considering he isn't the focus. Although it's not apparent, the show does give a reason for his ineffectiveness, and it's his loss. This at least is a sensible explanation. He has lost Jean and now he has become a shell of himself. I've noticed, as far as fights go, he gets pwned a hell of a lot less than Wolverine, in fact he's the most competent on the battle field. If this next season is [blackout]Age of Apocalypse, like it seems to be, I eagerly looked forward to them animated the prelate saga. Showing him as the leader of the pens, exploring his mercy and compassion, and proving that his allegiance to the Xavier dream is more than just a blind following[/blackout]

 

[WillardNation]

how have you guys seen all these episodes when the show doesn't premiere until the 23rd?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

how have you guys seen all these episodes when the show doesn't premiere until the 23rd?

The internet is a magical place.

 

[Ratcrawler]

I think people are overplaying Cyclop's treatment in this show. I've seen the last several episodes and they are fairly kind to him, especially considering he isn't the focus. Although it's not apparent, the show does give a reason for his ineffectiveness, and it's his loss. This at least is a sensible explanation. He has lost Jean and now he has become a shell of himself. I've noticed, as far as fights go, he gets pwned a hell of a lot less than Wolverine, in fact he's the most competent on the battle field. If this next season is [blackout]Age of Apocalypse, like it seems to be, I eagerly looked forward to them animated the prelate saga. Showing him as the leader of the pens, exploring his mercy and compassion, and proving that his allegiance to the Xavier dream is more than just a blind following[/blackout]

True. They treat him a helluva lot better than 20th Century Fox did.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

True. They treat him a helluva lot better than 20th Century Fox did.

Considering the work a lot of these guys did on X-Men: Evolution, I think it's safe to say they have a huge soft spot for Cyclops. I have faith in them to do the right story.

 

[KingOfMars]

how have you guys seen all these episodes when the show doesn't premiere until the 23rd?

they are easy to download if you know where to go.I downloaded from bearshare, so far a good series.I like it more than evolution since i couldnt get into x-men for a teeny bopper audience, and the tone is closer to the series from the 90s, but onto the topic of discussion, cyclops seems to be very underutilised, and the small moments he does have do nothing to flesh him out, mind you that ive only seen the first nine episodes so i dont know what has happened currently.I would say that this is really my only complaint.

 

[Dread]

I think people are overplaying Cyclop's treatment in this show. I've seen the last several episodes and they are fairly kind to him, especially considering he isn't the focus. Although it's not apparent, the show does give a reason for his ineffectiveness, and it's his loss. This at least is a sensible explanation. He has lost Jean and now he has become a shell of himself. I've noticed, as far as fights go, he gets pwned a hell of a lot less than Wolverine, in fact he's the most competent on the battle field. If this next season is [blackout]Age of Apocalypse, like it seems to be, I eagerly looked forward to them animated the prelate saga. Showing him as the leader of the pens, exploring his mercy and compassion, and proving that his allegiance to the Xavier dream is more than just a blind following[/blackout]

I think that battle field presence may be more about BS&P than Cyclops' confidence. Think about it. Wolverine is a network TV dilemma. He is popular, exciting, and so forth. But he can't actually use his claws on camera against most enemies that aren't robots or objects because of censorship. So all of Wolverine's fights on most TV shows are hindered by what he can't do with his claws, which is damn near everything that is what we attribute to Logan from the comics.

Cyclops, on the other hand, just zaps people with energy beams. That has been fine in network cartoons since the 60's. So it is easier to storyboard his action sequences, I would imagine. One doesn't have to write or pace them with half a mind to what the network will not allow as they have to do with Wolverine on TV.

Plus, Wolverine is one of the only characters on the cast who can take insane amounts of damage and, due to his powers, can recover from them quickly without being forever crippled. So, much as in Evolution, he is used to showcase how tough a threat is. Cyclops (or most characters) would be dead or hospitalized if a giant monster threw him 200 feet into the sidewalk, but Logan will be peachy in a few minutes. Colossus on a cast would help balance this sort of thing, but the writers don't like him.

Imagine if Batman wasn't allowed to throw Batarangs, punch people, or jump through windows. That is the dilemma Wolverine usually faces on TV. His most well known tools are dulled for outdated BS&P who aren't aware that the same children they wish to shield curse like sailors on any first person shooter X-BOX or computer tournament and/or are exposed to much worse things from pro wrestling, the internet, music videos/songs, and cable movies. Maybe my view on kids is cynical, but to paraphrase someone, cynics are usually right 9 times out of 10. In the 1980's, I thought it was completely ludicrous that the Ninja Turtles couldn't use their bladed weapons on any flesh and blood enemy. I can imagine the children of the modern age find this stuff with Wolverine even more ridiculous. But until the mainstream American method of preparing children for harsh realities shifts from "keeping them ignorant as long as possible yet hoping they learn about sex/violence in a manner that is safe and doesn't inconvenience us in the middle of CSI", this may never change.

Anyway, about Cyclops. The downside of the method that WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN went into the show is that you have zero context. It assumes you know how these characters are supposed to act and their origins, but as the show picks and chooses what it likes from the mainstream comics, Ultimate, the movies and prior cartoons, that foreknowledge can change at any moment. The moment we see Scott, he is apologizing to Jean for unfairly insulting Logan and making her angry, and it seems very clear that Jean has definite feelings for Wolverine, blowing him a kiss. The moment he loses both her and Xavier, Scott abandons the rest and shows no endearing qualities. He is content to hide away for a year while the world gets worse. He all but forces Logan to take command by violently refusing to. He only suits up again to find Xavier (not even backing up Beast when he claims Logan's method of confronting Magneto is less than ideal), and then immediately afterward needs Future Xavier to practically beg him not to abandon his friends again, like a spoiled child. He would have left Storm to Shadow King's mercy in "Overflow" if Kitty hadn't happened to complain about him too close to his door. From there he is oblivious to Emma Frost's mysterious attraction to him and sees her only as a method to find Jean. Kitty makes a big deal in some episodes about Scott acting "out of character", but the problem with the show's format is that this IS his character.

Bluntly, Cyclops in this show is almost the cliche of what people usually say about him when they justify not being into him. He's a selfish spoiled brat, or, when he isn't speaking, which is most of the time, he is Dull Optic Blast Man. When he doesn't get his way, he mopes and has no will to fight for anything, even his friends, unless someone dangles his girlfriend or his mentor in front of him. The Cyclops that people loved in EVOLUTION, who took charge while also being compassionate to the feelings of others and even being capable of mending fences is not here.

If you believe TheVileOne's run down of episode 12, Cyclops is even willing to endanger the public and drag the X-Men into fights that aren't their business just to try to get what he wants for himself. Now, I don't completely buy that angle, but it is a valid way to look at it. This isn't an endearing quality. It makes it easy for Logan to seem like an ideal leader in comparison. Wolverine is often written, consistently, as being the core of the X-Men because he will always fight with them and for them, even when he disagrees with something or doesn't really want to, because he believes in the cause despite himself and his past. Logan may snarl and growl about it, but he will never abandon the X-Men; that is why he reorganized them in this show. That's why people rotate to him as fans of the franchise. Cyclops, at least so far in the show, is the exact opposite. The minute he loses what matters to him, the X-Men could all die for all he cared. He abandoned them, and would have continued to do so without constant needling or coddling. That isn't endearing. It may be a "sensible explanation", but it isn't endearing. Audiences have no mercy for mopers who can't suck it up for the greater good, like Logan usually does.

People like the idea of Logan and Scott swapping roles. The problem is that they don't if you get down to it. When Logan is being the rebel who doesn't listen to the leader, makes mistakes, goes on loner quests or makes wisecracks on occasion, he is written as being the coolest thing EVAR, and the situation always works out for him. When Cyclops does the same now, the situations are written to where he needs to be bailed out or he comes off looking like a chump who doesn't take missions seriously if they don't personally involve him. Can you think of any animated episode anywhere that made Logan look like a chump because he didn't listen to the leader? Because I sure can't. Hell, three movies pretty much reinforced the idea that Logan ignoring whatever Cyclops says and fighting battles his way saves the day, every time.

The writers also have a thing for Cyclops completely ignoring women who are flawed but genuinely into him because of his blind devotion to "perfect" Jean, who either here or in Evolution always seems just a tad unreachable. In Evolution, Jean was friends with him so long that she was never even romantically attracted unless other characters were. Here, Jean almost seems like the Little Red Haired Girl in Charlie Brown, idealized and unattainable, perhaps with Scott only because she couldn't handle Logan's manliness. While that's paying homage to the comics, I recall being a bit crushed seeing Scott ignore Rogue in Evo for Jean and I do hope his thing with Frost ends better here.

Still, to give credit, Cyclops is faring a lot better than Storm, who has no character arc or much of a character to her in this show, period. It doesn't really bother me because I'm not a fan of hers, but she usually just gives exposition or throws a thunderbolt when needed. "X-CESSIVE FORCE" (episode 12) pretty much provided some of the best Cyclops fight animation ever. While he is a maligned character in the show, they have a clear arc for him. He won't ever get to show up Wolverine, but he'll have stuff to do.

Plus, as I said, ignoring this show just because of some of the fumbles with Scott would be an error for any X-Men fan in general or animation fan in particular. I rant about the flaws a lot, but that is because the rest is good and thus I am aware that the writers are more than capable of producing damn good quality. It isn't like THE BATMAN where most of the time you just shrug your shoulders at the hack writing. I can't wait for the finale for this season. It looks to be big.

 

[steve.w]

I think this Cyclops is brilliant. Often in other series (especially the 90's) his boy scout/stiff military personality always made his seem abit dull. This mourning for Jean/doesn't really care too much Cyclops has alot more depth, and he also more like he appears in the New X men comics, at least I think so. The audience can also sympathise with him alot more too, as before (with the 90's) he was too often raining on Wolverine's parade and holding him back from doing all kinds of cool stuff, the XM:E Cyclops was like that too with the other characters to a certain extent. The coat is also a good addition, it symbolises the fact that Cyclops isn't quite right at the moment, not his usual self.

 

[Dread]

That's interesting. I am curious how far into the show you are in. If you've seen the entire season online or via Canada or are watching it fresh on NickToons. I don't want to offer more opinion and risk spoilers.

 

[TheVileOne]

steve.w does make a good point. And I think a good point to make is that Cyclops has exhibited qualities like this in the comics including the New X-men stories and the Grant Morrison stories.

 

[Dread]

It is something I have read in some other forums at IMDB or whatever about this show's Cyclops, basically "he may be a dip**** but at least he isn't boring". I've never said he is boring outright. I thought the Evolution version was actually a decent version of Cyclops. He was still the moral leader, but he could relax and even had a sense of humor. He also messed up many times and often needed to be bailed out of battles when things bacfired, usually by Jean or Rogue. He just wasn't a sad sack, and he showed initiative. It was seeing that version of Cyclops in 2000 that convinced me to actually care about his character in general.

Without getting too much into spoilers, and Welcome to SHH, steve.w, my issue was that I didn't think this season of W&TXM made Cyclops look very sympathetic to me. He seemed to react to every stress the exact wrong way. He often was selfish and put his own needs before those of his team and friends. It is true that said team and friends have also turned on him, but he more or less gives them reason. Frankly, I don't think someone acting emo because they've lost everything that ever mattered to them is "deep". I find that a standard reaction. Cyclops' story in Season 1 seemed to imply a sort of redemption track, but the problem is he never really redeems himself. To me he simply seemed defined by all his magnified faults and that made things one note. He was never a proper rival for Wolverine. Even Xavier dismisses him, and by the end you understand why, and even would likely agree.

Still, I am interested by someone else seeing this from a different perspective. I didn't imagine Cyclops looked terribly sympathetic here. But of course everyone's perspective is different when they watch a show, which is why message boards are fun.

 

[TheVileOne]

And the reason you feel that way Dread is because you are a Cyclops mark and you are biased for Cyclops .

 

[Panthro]

And the reason you feel that way Dread is because you are a Cyclops mark and you are biased for Cyclops .

Just like you're a Wolverine mark and biased for Wolverine?

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm a Wolverine fan and I love Wolverine. I've never been in denial of that.

Dread though hates Wolverine and loves Cyclops so of course he thinks his favorite character is getting shafted. Even though his favorite character in the comics married his old girlfriend's visual twin, had a kid with her, and then when he found out his girlfriend was still alive, he dumped his family for his old girlfriend and failed to tell his girlfriend HE MARRIED A WOMAN AND HAD A FREAKING BABY!

 

[steve.w]

That's interesting. I am curious how far into the show you are in. If you've seen the entire season online or via Canada or are watching it fresh on NickToons. I don't want to offer more opinion and risk spoilers.

Yeah I've seen the whole Series on online (thank god for free tv online!)

steve.w[/b], my issue was that I didn't think this season of W&TXM made Cyclops look very sympathetic to me. He seemed to react to every stress the exact wrong way. He often was selfish and put his own needs before those of his team and friends. It is true that said team and friends have also turned on him, but he more or less gives them reason. Frankly, I don't think someone acting emo because they've lost everything that ever mattered to them is "deep". I find that a standard reaction. Cyclops' story in Season 1 seemed to imply a sort of redemption track, but the problem is he never really redeems himself. To me he simply seemed defined by all his magnified faults and that made things one note. He was never a proper rival for Wolverine. Even Xavier dismisses him, and by the end you understand why, and even would likely agree.

First off thanks for the welcome, very much appreciated. Secondly, I think the acting emo is their way of trying to show grief on a kids show. In my view, his selfisness and constant stressing is their way of showing how helpless he is without Jean, and perhaps the fact that Wolverine still asks for him to join again shows how desperate the X men are (due to their loss of Jean and Xavier). I think perhaps his lack of concern for his own life, for example when he takes on about a hundred multiples of Multiple Man, and going after Sinister by himself. What does not help him is his closeness with Emma, the whole needs her to find Jean thing doesn't really fly, especially to the people who've read the comics. In addition the fact that he sat in an apartment watching tv not bothering to try to find Jean doesn't help portray him as the devoted boyfriend (I'm assuming they arn't married). It would have been more believable if Wolverine had found him getting his ass kicked while already trying to find her.

SPOILER:


I think it's interesting that Cyclops in XM:E is mentioned as I feel that this show's Cyclops reaction to Jean going missing is less bad than XM:E's Cyclops would have been.
Similarly, XM:E's Cyclops seemed to be happier (or at least as happy) to see Jean in the episode where Mystique drops him in Mexico, than this show's Cycops was when he found Jean again.

 

[TheVileOne]

I feel that Cyclops and Jean were not meant to be in this story. I feel Cyclops had a greater connection with Emma and I think that's who Cyclops will ultimately end up with.

And honestly, I think this show does a much better job with the dynamic then how they went about it in the comics.

 

[Fresh Prince]

You will like this show if youl ike Micheal Bay esique action.

 

[TheVileOne]

What does that even mean Fresh Prince?

 

[steve.w]

Also... for a show called Wolverine and the X men, Cyclops features heavily in the last episode/s, infact you could go as far to say that Cyclops is THE hero of the last episode, or at least he is the most active, given that Wolverine's role is somewhat downplayed, at least in the present.