We've seen two trailers. So what don't you like about this series?

[TheVileOne]

OK, I just wanted to set up this thread to clear the air. So now many of the questions have been answered.

We've seen two lengthy trailers for this show. It has US airdate. It's been picked up by Nicktoons. We know the cast and crew, who are all proven veterans in the field of animation as well as familiar with working with these characters.

We now know that Xavier definitively isn't dead from the first trailer. He's still alive but injured in Genosha. We have a good idea on the direction the story is going in, and that they are doing at least 26 episodes.

So now that said, when people here or on IMDB were poopooing the idea of this show for one reason or another, let's talk about what your problems with this show are and what you don't like from the looks of it.

OK, Wolverine is not only the leader but the title character of the series now. It's for all intents and purposes Wolverine's show since it comes out around the same time as the movie. For many years X-men fans have found Wolverine's saturation in the X-men books ridiculous and problematic. Which is totally understandable because it is.

Then it was the movies, when Cyclops was unceremoniously tossed aside in favor of Wolverine, the bigger draw and more popular character.

But judging from feedback, this seems to be the only problem people are having with the show. That Wolverine leads the X-men and his name is in the title.

But will this keep you from watching it, or is there anything else you don't like about it that makes you long for the days of X-men: TAS and X-men: Evolution. The trailer does give a subtle hint toward a Shadowcat/Iceman romantic relationship. Some fans on the IMDB boards have expressed disappointment that Gambit isn't part of the team and only a guest star (in two episodes according to Steven Blum).

Personally, I think 2009 is too long a wait for this show. I think the show looks so good it really should be on the air a lot quicker, especially in a Fall season for Nicktoons. Then again, TV doesn't really have a defined Fall or Spring season anymore. To wait a whole other year for this show sounds like too long a wait.

I get that the target age bracket for this series is 6-14. But can an animated series really keep suggesting that Wolverine uses his claws for something other than stabbing? On the surface this looks to be a much darker, intense, and mature X-men series than anything we've seen before. So I hope the target age demographic doesn't take away from this.

 

[Dread]

Not having access to Nicktoons will be the biggest factor in me not watching it. But I will try to hunt for it online, give it a fair chance. Despite my reservations, which you summarized, it has too much going for it to NOT give it a try.

I've stated my position a few times, no need to repeat it.

I will say that reversing the roles of Wolverine & Cyclops is interesting in theory but leaves them both against their strengths. Wolverine without being a rebellious loner who gives leadership a hard time is simply a stock gruff hero leader, not unlike Nick Fury, or Ultimate Capt. America, or Lynch in GEN 13, etc. And Cyclops when he tries to come off gruff usually just comes off whiney. People MOCK him for his ability to fall to pieces whenever Jean dies or Xavier doesn't pat his head. Scott is best as the leader and without that, well, there seems little point to him. Whedon in AXM all but alluded to as much.

I'm not saying it CAN'T work. I am just saying while the switched dynamic does them no favors.

And once again, despite Colossus joining the X-Men at the same damn time as Storm, Wolverine, and Nightcrawler, he will be punk'd and just serve as token big guy cameo roles. He won't be a supporting player throughout and he won't really do much character wise, which sucks. Colossus has really never been utilized much in any X-Men series. Again, that's not just W&TXM's flaw, as the 90's series only used him twice, but it is irksome to see a character omission repeated.

But, like I said, there's too much that is promising about this series to ignore it. I'll try to check it out somehow.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't think you can legitimately say that at all about Colossus in this series Dread because there has been so little to go by.

I thought the two Colossus guest appearances in the 90's show were quality episodes. But for this series, he looks to be heavily featured in the promo images. I think it's way too premature to call Colossus in this series a character omission.

All we can unequivocally say is that we've not really seen any Colossus at all in the trailers besides one brief shot.

 

[Dread]

I don't think you can legitimately say that at all about Colossus in this series Dread because there has been so little to go by.

I thought the two Colossus guest appearances in the 90's show were quality episodes. But for this series, he looks to be heavily featured in the promo images. I think it's way too premature to call Colossus in this series a character omission.

All we can unequivocally say is that we've not really seen any Colossus at all in the trailers besides one brief shot.

Yet we have seen Angel, Iceman, Rogue, Beat, and Nightcrawler, who will presumably have major roles.

Colossus is ALWAYS in group shots. The challenge has always been writing him in a way where he is important while still being true to his character. Most writers find him boring. Even Joss Whedon can find nothing more to do with Colossus than, "Kitty's boyfriend".

Sadly, if he was an anti-hero, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I do agree that both of Colossus' 90's episodes were good, but if that series had one flaw, it is that it chose X-Men that were hot at the time over those who had been there long term. Jubilee, Rogue, and Gambit had no right to upstage Nightcrawler & Colossus in terms of "years put in". But they did. It led to Rogue & Gambit reaching A-List status and the 90's X-Men was probably the most successful and popular Marvel show to date, so it seems moot arguing about success.

I'd practically bet money that Colossus doesn't do more than say a few lines and punch something in W&TXM. Otherwise he'd have popped up at least half as much in previews as Angel has. Colossus should be MORE than just standing in the background. I mean movie audiences LOVED him, for what little screentime he had. Methinks there is some lost potential here. I'm NOT saying that Colossus is a better character than Wolverine or Cyclops, I am just saying he deserves to be on an X-Men show's regular supporting cast getting regular development just as much as Nightcrawler or Storm, least in my eyes. But he never does, and probably never will.

Still, it is cool seeing a lot of X-characters who was never (or barely) animated before get some due.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yet we have seen Angel, Iceman, Rogue, Beat, and Nightcrawler, who will presumably have major roles.

OK but for all we've seen of them, we've really not seen that much in comparison for other characters. I don't recall Nightcrawler getting a single line in the trailers.

This is a 26 episode series, a LOT can happen in that amount of episodes.

I do agree that both of Colossus' 90's episodes were good, but if that series had one flaw, it is that it chose X-Men that were hot at the time over those who had been there long term. Jubilee, Rogue, and Gambit had no right to upstage Nightcrawler & Colossus in terms of "years put in". But they did. It led to Rogue & Gambit reaching A-List status and the 90's X-Men was probably the most successful and popular Marvel show to date, so it seems moot arguing about success.

The thing is though Gambit's popular. And he's only serving a guest star capacity in this series.

It's too early to make any kind of presumptions about Colossus though.

I'd practically bet money that Colossus doesn't do more than say a few lines and punch something in W&TXM. Otherwise he'd have popped up at least half as much in previews as Angel has. Colossus should be MORE than just standing in the background. I mean movie audiences LOVED him, for what little screentime he had. Methinks there is some lost potential here. I'm NOT saying that Colossus is a better character than Wolverine or Cyclops, I am just saying he deserves to be on an X-Men show's regular supporting cast getting regular development just as much as Nightcrawler or Storm, least in my eyes. But he never does, and probably never will.

Worst case scenario, but seeing how this show is giving face time to characters like Domino, I don't believe it.

There is nothing wrong with what you are saying at all really. I just don't think Colossus is going to be a minimal character. I think he will get screentime in this series and he will be a good character. Because he will be the powerhouse of the team and we will need to see the animated version of the Fastball Special.

 

[anrrd_2]

there was a team shot in the end of the trailer that showed a guy with brown hair and a goatee...was that a powered down colossus? who was it? and also...who was the grey chick? i didnt recognize her.

edit: im pretty sure the guy with the goatee was forge...correct me if im wrong.

 

[Dread]

OK but for all we've seen of them, we've really not seen that much in comparison for other characters. I don't recall Nightcrawler getting a single line in the trailers.

I thought I had in the last one but I could be wrong. But considering Nightcrawler was a regular supporting character in the latest X-series before this and was in the very popular X2, I'd wager to bet he'll factor a lot more in W&TXM than Colossus, especially as Logan and Kurt are close. Again, I'm not trying to knock Kurt; he is a cool character and one of my favorite X-Men (and I actually liked him in Evolution, unlike many people). I just see a trend.

This is a 26 episode series, a LOT can happen in that amount of episodes.

True, but even with a lot of cameo's, some characters have to rise to the top. Wolverine is the de-facto star but other characters will rise in to be his supporting cast. Right now that is looking like Beast, Cyclops, Emma Frost, and Rogue, at the very least.

The thing is though Gambit's popular. And he's only serving a guest star capacity in this series.

Fair enough. I'll admit he looked cool. Evolution handled him well. I normally don't care for Gambit but I liked him there.

It is strange that Gambit is only in a cameo capacity, considering he would fit the "rebel on the team who questions the leader" role a LOT better than Cyclops. Of course, Cyclops may NOT really question Logan much after Logan pulls him out of self-pity, which would really suck in terms of character conflict.

It's too early to make any kind of presumptions about Colossus though.

I think it is. Out of all the X-Men besides Storm, he's been shown the least. The people here are the same ones who did Evolution where Colossus basically had an extended cameo and NEVER won a single fight he was in. And he has NEVER, in ANY X-Men cartoon (save the PRYDE OF THE X-MEN pilot) been part of the regular team supporting cast.

It would be illogical to suddenly presume that Piotr's going to be third in command in W&TXM.

Worst case scenario, but seeing how this show is giving face time to characters like Domino, I don't believe it.

Domino is a hot body. And, again, you could say she is a longtime X-related character who has never really seen much animation before (beyond some screen cameos in the 90's show) and is "due".

There is nothing wrong with what you are saying at all really. I just don't think Colossus is going to be a minimal character. I think he will get screentime in this series and he will be a good character. Because he will be the powerhouse of the team and we will need to see the animated version of the Fastball Special.

But, see, that is ALL the movies and cartoons have seen in Colossus. Nothing but plot convenient muscle. Hey, we need someone to throw Wolverine or randomly help the X-Men fight Juggernaut, call in the big metal guy who speaks broken English. But there's more to him than smashing.

For instance, while Piotr is of course a quiet, artistic guy at heart who is prone to emotion, if you look at his history, he's quite the ladies man. People brag about Logan and Gambit, but Piotr's had a few on-panel romances or flirtations with a bunch of characters. He even shared a kiss with Rogue during the end of the 90's. There are areas to explore rather than just having him say, "Da, Comrade!" and throwing Logan at something.

And yes, I know we've yet to see an animated version of the Fastball Special.

there was a team shot in the end of the trailer that showed a guy with brown hair and a goatee...was that a powered down colossus? who was it? and also...who was the grey chick? i didnt recognize her.

edit: im pretty sure the guy with the goatee was forge...correct me if im wrong.

Yeah, it is Forge. Another character who has usually been limited to cameos in the past. He was a bit wonky in Evolution, though.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

all the things stated in the first post r what i have problems with...

the title
the channel
and its gonna take for freakin ever to come out!
and lastly i want psylocke and dazzler!

 

[The Original Bamfer]

OK, Wolverine is not only the leader but the title character of the series now. It's for all intents and purposes Wolverine's show since it comes out around the same time as the movie. For many years X-men fans have found Wolverine's saturation in the X-men books ridiculous and problematic. Which is totally understandable because it is.

Then it was the movies, when Cyclops was unceremoniously tossed aside in favor of Wolverine, the bigger draw and more popular character.

But judging from feedback, this seems to be the only problem people are having with the show. That Wolverine leads the X-men and his name is in the title.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

Actually a would be more fitting.

 

[04nbod]

To me x men has always been about teamwork and this series from what we've seen flies in the face of that. They have put logan before everyone else as usual and making him leader not only insults cyclops but goes against Wolverine as a character himself. How can he do his own thing and go against authority when he is the authority? I also have issues with Emma Frost in the team. I've never liked the character but I know this is a personal grievance that most will not share. I don't like the style of animation. It looks flat and lifeless. I have yet to make an opinion on the treatment of Rogue who is my favourite X character. I just hope she kicks ass as much as previous animated versions.

 

[Ratcrawler]

My biggest problem is their lack of Berzerker. v__v;

 

[the a1ant]

Personally, I think 2009 is too long a wait for this show. I think the show looks so good it really should be on the air a lot quicker, especially in a Fall season for Nicktoons. Then again, TV doesn't really have a defined Fall or Spring season anymore. To wait a whole other year for this show sounds like too long a wait.

It really is too long of a wait. I understand the tie-in possibilities with the film, and that's ok, but they really should've held back on giving us a long, detailed trailer, since the premiere is so darn far away.

 

[RonStoppablefan]

My only complaint is that Gean Grey disappears right off the start and we prob won't get to see her at all in the series. But every thing else looks great, I'm thrilled at the fact that Wolverines the leader, he's my fav character. That just means more of him ^^

 

[shadowdog]

there was a team shot in the end of the trailer that showed a guy with brown hair and a goatee...was that a powered down colossus? who was it? and also...who was the grey chick? i didnt recognize her.

edit: im pretty sure the guy with the goatee was forge...correct me if im wrong.

It was Domino.
I am pretty excited to see characters like her and Dust making an appearance. That's pretty cool.

 

[spiderfan85]

Some fans on the IMDB boards have expressed disappointment that Gambit isn't part of the team and only a guest star (in two episodes according to Steven Blum).

Um, did Greg Blum actually say he would only appear in 2 episodes or did he say that Gambit is confirmed in AT LEAST 2 episodes? Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss any new info.

Anyway, cartoon looks interesting.

 

[Ceb-Man]

What I like:
The characters I do see and their voices.
Kind of using some new elements by involving Emma Frost as an X-Men member, borrowing from Astonishing X-Men.

I don't like:
Wolverine as leader. I know Wolverine is popular, even I like him, but don't put him as leader. Cyclops is the leader. I know the reason since X-Men Origins: Wolverine is coming out and they want to focus on Wolverine, but if they wanted to do that make a Wolverine cartoon with his adventures and some guest stars.

Gambit needs to be a regular. Gambit is very popular and needs to a team member. Hopefully as the series progresses he does become one.

 

[BobJM]

Absence of Jean Grey

 

[The Original Bamfer]

My only complaint is that Gean Grey disappears right off the start and we prob won't get to see her at all in the series. But every thing else looks great, I'm thrilled at the fact that Wolverines the leader, he's my fav character. That just means more of him ^^

Jean's disappearance/death is probably going to be very important to the paths that the characters (especially Scott and Logan) and the story take. And, one could speculate that Jean might return later on in the series...

What I like:
The characters I do see and their voices.
Kind of using some new elements by involving Emma Frost as an X-Men member, borrowing from Astonishing X-Men.

I don't like:
Wolverine as leader. I know Wolverine is popular, even I like him, but don't put him as leader. Cyclops is the leader. I know the reason since X-Men Origins: Wolverine is coming out and they want to focus on Wolverine, but if they wanted to do that make a Wolverine cartoon with his adventures and some guest stars.

Gambit needs to be a regular. Gambit is very popular and needs to a team member. Hopefully as the series progresses he does become one.

Gambit? Needing to be a team leader?

 

[spiderfan85]

Gambit? Needing to be a team leader?

He said Gambit should eventually become a regular member of the X-Men. Not leader.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

He said Gambit should eventually become a regular member of the X-Men. Not leader.

My eyes tend to, well, not work occasionally.

 

[the a1ant]

If Cyclops doesn't argue Logan being a leader (per Xavier's request), then I'm going to hate that.

I also hope the overall animation is good. It looks a little average, but I'm hoping they push it further.

Besides that, this is looking great!

 

[DJSCARLET]

i really want to see what they do with that scene. bet there are a lot of cyclops fans pissed off at the idea of their favorite character being pushed aside as leader to make room for WOLVERINE.
after awhile, the title will just sound normal to everyone.

 

[Dread]

One more point I think is worth making; if the producers, writers, and networks want to do a cartoon show that stars Wolverine, then how about a solo Wolverine series? I'm serious, the character could totally pull that off. Instead they basically are doing that, but having the X-Men be his supporting cast, which opens up all sorts of bad memories from the late 80's into the 90's, which has some in quite a tizzy. It reinforces the idea that was re-introduced from the films that the X-Men franchise is nothing more than a supporting cast to Wolverine. I've liked Wolverine as a character, but I disagree with that idea of the X-Franchise.

But, it is all moot. I'll still be watching the series when I can. I hope they find a way to make the action scenes work without reducing Logan to tackles and cutting robots. 2k3 TMNT actually managed some clever ways to have characters occasionally be injured with bladed weapons without pissing off the censors...

 

[Angamb]

I'm agreed.

If they wanted to focus in Logan, a series by hiw own would have been good, for his fans, and the rest of the audience, in the wait of his movie.

There were two x-men series before, why not a wolverine alone series now? it would have sense, but no, they have to use the x-men as suppporting characters.

I hate to see Wolverine always as the star everywhere.

 

[iamlegend]

I've said my bit about the whole Wolvie focus before, so I won't reiterate that...

Other thoughts:

1. I don't like the idea of such an ensemble cast. We've seen dozens of different characters in the two promos. The reason I enjoyed TAS over Evolution was because the cast was smaller, and that allowed for more character driven storylines. When you've got huge amounts of characters (including Wolvie, who's getting most of the screen time) the characters wind up being hollow mockeries.

2. Gambit gets to cameo, though, which keeps me somewhat interested.