Sequels Sony Expands Spider-Man Cinematic Universe: Announced Venom and Sinister Six movies

[XtremelyBaneful]

I've never really been a fan of Venom as the hero,or anti-hero as it were. He's always been a villain to me.

he's a second playable character alongside spiderman in maximum carnage

 

[DrCosmic]

^
Like the movie Elektra did?Without Daredevil in it,it sucked.

Well, Daredevil, with Daredevil in it sucked. Sucky movies don't fill up seats. What does that have to do with Spider-Man?

 

[Venom'sDad]

I've never really been a fan of Venom as the hero,or anti-hero as it were. He's always been a villain to me.

Hey Venom75, when you a chance, check out "The Unholy Trinity of Venom" ......like to know what many of you think as its being develop.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Well, Daredevil, with Daredevil in it sucked. Sucky movies don't fill up seats. What does that have to do with Spider-Man?

that movie made money though... i'm surprised they didn't turn it into a franchise

 

[DrCosmic]

that movie made money though... i'm surprised they didn't turn it into a franchise

That's a good point, Superman Returns made money, too. So you're right, sucky movies can fill seats and spinoffs of sucky movies don't. Still nothing to do with Spider-Man though.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I just saw other people posting on it and I had a comment to make.

andrew garfield apparently shed tears for not being in asm4?

 

[Venom75]

Hey Venom75, when you a chance, check out "The Unholy Trinity of Venom" ......like to know what many of you think as its being develop.

That sounds cool,Venom'sDad. See,I guess I don't mind that underneath it all,Eddie Brock is a decent human being. He's just depressed and angry at the world. I can relate sometimes. But the symbiote is the real evil,corrupting and influencing Brock to do evil things. There are a few times that Eddie fights the symbiote,and that good person can come through,but on many occasions he gives in to the darkness. Like I've always said,I want to see a Venom film(done,I'm assuming,with Carnage)like Freddy vs. Jason. Where both main characters are evil,but maybe one is a bit more sympathetic or "good" than the other. But the real good guys of the movie are the human characters.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Okay, well that's fine if you think that.

unfortunately though i'm alone in my thoughts. everyone else seems to be pumped

 

[Venom'sDad]

That sounds cool,Venom'sDad. See,I guess I don't mind that underneath it all,Eddie Brock is a decent human being. He's just depressed and angry at the world. I can relate sometimes. But the symbiote is the real evil,corrupting and influencing Brock to do evil things. There are a few times that Eddie fights the symbiote,and that good person can come through,but on many occasions he gives in to the darkness. Like I've always said,I want to see a Venom film(done,I'm assuming,with Carnage)like Freddy vs. Jason. Where both main characters are evil,but maybe one is a bit more sympathetic or "good" than the other. But the real good guys of the movie are the human characters.

Thanks Venom75, I appreciate it....I certainly hope others dig it as well. Check the thread from time to time, to read and follow the story as it being develop....reason why I thus far only posted a teaser & tagline. I'm writing it, to fit in Webb's world. So, thanks again, glad you and hopefully others find it interesting.

 

[Super Jim]

There's no assumption. That's what the press release said. It's one thing to hope that the press release writers don't know how to say Amazing Spider-Man 3 instead of Sinister Six movie when announcing films, it's another thing to call taking the announcement at face value an assumption.



The S6 do need two films to be done right: a Sinister Six movie to form and an Amazing Spider-Man movie to battle Spider-Man. They don't need two movies battling Spider-Man, that's redundant, that's not interesting.

Venom is a strong villain, but so is Green Goblin, so is Dr. Octopus, so are most of Spidey's villains, and they've been well served by not being the main/sole villain. The mistake of Spider-Man 3 was trying to shove Venom into a Spider-Man movie. It was a great film before Raimi tried to do that, and would have been much better without it. A symbiote subplot with a cliffhanger leading to a Venom spinoff would have been sooooo much better.

Venom isn't really a villain, so him being the main villain in a Spider-Man movie would be untrue to the character, imho. He becomes a good guy, that's what he does.

What I meant by assumption is that when they stated Sinister Six and Venom they meant that those would be the villains. BHut either way it sounds like you agree with me that 2 movies are needed to do the Sinister Six correct. And maybe what you're saying is the way they'll do it. A Sinister Six movie to form the team (but what would be the adversary for them?) and then an Amazing Spiderman movie for Spidey to beat them...

The same methodology could be done for Venom. A Venom movie to show Brock's background and the whole symbiote thing. But let's be honest... Without Peter first bonding with the symbitoe the story is lessened. It's important for that to be shown. But again, Webb may want to do things differently than in the spiderman movies, so maybe Peter would never get the black uniform.

Also, what I was saying was during one film we would be shown the S6 forming and possibly one or two of the villains to be taken down, and then the remaining in the final film. Actually, I could see Black Cat being one of the Six, exploring that relationship, with her "changing sides" at the end of the first one. But again, I think you're right that they'll first have an S6 and then an Amazing Spiderman movie. The timing (with Andrew) will be an issue though...

I totally agree with you that many of Spidey's villains are top notch. Green Goblin, Venom and Doc Ock all could hold their own as a sole villains (2 of which did so in the original series). Many of the others are not strong villains and couldn't pull it off. Where Raimi got it wrong wasn't by just putting Venom in a Spiderman movie. That doesn't make any sense at all since Venom is so connected to Peter/Spiderman.

Raimi screwed the pooch by:

- Casting a very poor Brock.
- Not giving enough time to get into Brock's backstory.
- Making Venom (and the symbiote) secondary to the main story.
- Putting way to many new villains into the same film.
- Using extremely cheesey dialogue and actions to try to portray the effects of the symbiote on Peter.
- Making Mary Jane some jelous crybaby

And I could go on...

Also, Venom absolutely is (was) a villain. Yes, he becomes an Anti-Hero after his initial story played out, but to try to say he wasn't a villain initially is just plain wrong. Yes, from his point of view Spiderman was the bad guy, but his actions made him the villain. I believe he has actually killed innocents (some warden and possibly a police officer). In fact, he is listed as the 22nd greatest comic book villain of all time and Spiderman's 3rd greatest villain, with only Doc Ock and Green Goblin surpassing him.

Here is a link to a group called the Jury, which substantiates that Venom was definitely a villain:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jury_(comics)

I do agree that he becomes an anti-hero, but in order to do that the more villainous side of Venom needs to be shown.

 

[Picard Sisko]

^
Like the movie Elektra did?Without Daredevil in it,it sucked.

I don't think its fair to compare "Elektra" to Venom or Sinister Six.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

^the film or the character

 

[DrCosmic]

What I meant by assumption is that when they stated Sinister Six and Venom they meant that those would be the villains. BHut either way it sounds like you agree with me that 2 movies are needed to do the Sinister Six correct. And maybe what you're saying is the way they'll do it. A Sinister Six movie to form the team (but what would be the adversary for them?) and then an Amazing Spiderman movie for Spidey to beat them...

The same methodology could be done for Venom. A Venom movie to show Brock's background and the whole symbiote thing. But let's be honest... Without Peter first bonding with the symbitoe the story is lessened. It's important for that to be shown. But again, Webb may want to do things differently than in the spiderman movies, so maybe Peter would never get the black uniform.

Also, what I was saying was during one film we would be shown the S6 forming and possibly one or two of the villains to be taken down, and then the remaining in the final film. Actually, I could see Black Cat being one of the Six, exploring that relationship, with her "changing sides" at the end of the first one. But again, I think you're right that they'll first have an S6 and then an Amazing Spiderman movie. The timing (with Andrew) will be an issue though...

I totally agree with you that many of Spidey's villains are top notch. Green Goblin, Venom and Doc Ock all could hold their own as a sole villains (2 of which did so in the original series). Many of the others are not strong villains and couldn't pull it off. Where Raimi got it wrong wasn't by just putting Venom in a Spiderman movie. That doesn't make any sense at all since Venom is so connected to Peter/Spiderman.

Raimi screwed the pooch by:

- Casting a very poor Brock.
- Not giving enough time to get into Brock's backstory.
- Making Venom (and the symbiote) secondary to the main story.
- Putting way to many new villains into the same film.
- Using extremely cheesey dialogue and actions to try to portray the effects of the symbiote on Peter.
- Making Mary Jane some jelous crybaby

And I could go on...

Also, Venom absolutely is (was) a villain. Yes, he becomes an Anti-Hero after his initial story played out, but to try to say he wasn't a villain initially is just plain wrong. Yes, from his point of view Spiderman was the bad guy, but his actions made him the villain. I believe he has actually killed innocents (some warden and possibly a police officer). In fact, he is listed as the 22nd greatest comic book villain of all time and Spiderman's 3rd greatest villain, with only Doc Ock and Green Goblin surpassing him.

Here is a link to a group called the Jury, which substantiates that Venom was definitely a villain:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jury_(comics)

I do agree that he becomes an anti-hero, but in order to do that the more villainous side of Venom needs to be shown.

Oh, I agree Venom was a villain, definitely! And a great one, at that. But because he's supposed to end up an anti-hero, he can't be the main villain. You need your main villain to do some really bad stuff, stuff so bad no one would want to see him as a hero, but rather, get what's coming to him.

On Raimi's mistake, I also want to clarify, I should have said that Raimi's mistake was trying to shove Venom into a Spider-Man movie that was already full. Brock and the Sybmiote are add ons to SM3, not relevant to the main plot at all, and the movie works, and works better, without them. Everything else was actually done well, it was the symbiote part that was shoved in and rushed. It should have been saved for SM4.

And on the assumption bit: we wouldn't accept that anywhere else. If they announced a Loki movie that was going to focus on Loki, no one would think it was Thor 3, especially if Thor 3 had already been announced. And if these aren't the films that they are going to make their Spidey Universe with, then what films could they possibly make?

 

[Picard Sisko]

^the film or the character

How about both?

 

[Venom'sDad]

The same methodology could be done for Venom. A Venom movie to show Brock's background and the whole symbiote thing. But let's be honest... Without Peter first bonding with the symbitoe the story is lessened. It's important for that to be shown. But again, Webb may want to do things differently than in the spiderman movies, so maybe Peter would never get the black uniform.

I don't think it necessary for Peter to get the Symbiote first, unless one just want to do a scene or full film with Peter having it. In my story, "The Unholy Trinity of Venom" it not necessary; actually however, Peter never getting it, ironically, plays a huge part in the overall story. Let me say this, you are possibly right...I suspect Webb wants to do things differently.

Also, I can't fully explain it right now, cause I'm still developing it; but, TS6 should follow a format similar, but different, to the way "The Usual Suspects" is done.....center around Chameleon.

 

[Super Jim]

^ I agree that Peter doesn't necessarily first have to have the symbiote, but IMO, that relationship matters as far as how it pertains to Brock and his shared hatred.

I did read your Unholy Trinity of Venom thing (did you know there is some rock group titled that?) and I'm not sold...

Here are some things to consider:

1. Raimi did the whole "it came from space" thing with the symbiote. I have a feeling Webb will want to stay away from that.

2. Webb seems to prefer the Ultimate sorylines to the amazing, golden canon of 616. That has been shown with Rhino and Electro, as well as the whole storyline of Peter's dad. Now in Ultimate the symbiote was a "Protoplasmic Dip" invented by Brock's daddy and Richard Parker. I could see Webb doing something similar.

3. There appears to be at least 6, and likely 7, different chambers in the "chamber of the future" scene, seen in the trailer. Two of the chambers house Doc Ock's tentacles and the Vulture's wings. The logical conclusion is that the other 4 or 5 chambers also house Spiderman villain aparatus. I have already analyzed spiderman's villains and beyond Doc Ock and Vulture, there is the Goblin (which will likely be one chamber for Harry), maybe Scorpion, Rhino would have made sense (but Webb appears to be going with Mech-Rhino), possibly the Eel tank, and Venom. Having the black goo (sorry, "Protoplasmic Dip") in one of the chambers just makes logical sense.

Personally I feel that Venom has to be done with Brock, otherwise what a waste! The Brock back story is so ingrained with Peter. Sure, the specifics depend on whether the story is 616 (Brock as a reporter) or Ultimate (Brock as the orphaned son the co-creator of the "dip"), but either way, Eddie's hatred for Peter matters!

Actually, I wouldn't be against the idea that Doc Ock, an Oscorp Engineer, invented the "dip" and that somehow it joins with Peter, giving him his black suit, and for some reason (my idea of Ock being able to control it, for example), Peter must rid himself of it, which allows it to join with Brock to create Venom.

But in all cases Venom and Brock are critically important to the story.

Now I've made myself worried that Webb might go with a Venom that is not Brock. That would suck so bad!!!!!

 

[Venom'sDad]

As far as The Unholy Trinity of Venom is concern....don't let the "space thing" fool you. I cleverly, and think wisely, tie aspects of it into what is perceive as Webb's apparent Ultimate approach. When I start posting the story, I'm fairly certain many would appreciate the full scope of the connection....and no, I didn't know a rock band has that name. I will have to look them up.

I'm frankly tired of talking about Raimi. Raimi is done...persoinally, I think many of us need to move on....he had his chance. Believe me when I say, my story is totally distant from the boondoggle that was Raimi Venom; and, in no way reflect or in any case similar to the approach he decided to take wit the character. My story has a real background, history, and foundation, that lend itself to a real mature motivation.

Now, I certainly agree with your assessment of the chambers....that has not gone unnoticed by me, and plays a huge consideration of "things". I just wanted to get across Peter having the Sym first, is not a necessity.....again, unless one just want him to have the suit for whatever reason, for whatever length of time. Sony will try to push the film forward, and not wait any length of time to follow the traditional way of Peter having it first, removing it, Brock discover it, etc.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

How about both?

wats so bad about elektra?

and i'm sure if they did things a little differently elektra could have had potential

 

[Picard Sisko]

I think Elektra is fine, but comparing her to a villain like Venom or a villain TEAM such as the Sinister Six is tough for her.

I'm sure the Elektra movie could have been better, but it wasn't. What we got, IMO, was terrible.

 

[Super Jim]

^ One point to consider...

Spiderman wearing a black suit is a very attractive thing. It can effect costumes, posters, etc.

Having him wear it through one movie and into another, would be a cool thing.

Of course, been there done that, so maybe it won't happen.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

^ One point to consider...

Spiderman wearing a black suit is a very attractive thing. It can effect costumes, posters, etc.

Having him wear it through one movie and into another, would be a cool thing.

Of course, been there done that, so maybe it won't happen.

i don't get it, are you saying that since they did spiderman inheriting the venom suit once, they won't do it again? and that venom will appear as the villain and the first host?

 

[Picard Sisko]

I want a classic symbiote suit this time around.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I want a classic symbiote suit this time around.

by classic you mean true to the comics? it is still an alien in the comics ain't it

 

[Picard Sisko]

I mean a black costume with a giant white Spider. As far as the symbiote itself, I think its going to be like the USM version. A failed cure for cancer created by Richard Parker and Eddie Brock's father.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I mean a black costume with a giant white Spider. As far as the symbiote itself, I think its going to be like the USM version. A failed cure for cancer created by Richard Parker and Eddie Brock's father.

i failed to see the word suit in your post, silly me, but yes I agree, this is wat I want