Sequels Sony Expands Spider-Man Cinematic Universe: Announced Venom and Sinister Six movies

[Super Jim]

i don't get it, are you saying that since they did spiderman inheriting the venom suit once, they won't do it again? and that venom will appear as the villain and the first host?

Yes unfortunately that is what I am saying.

Believe me, I want the story done right. I want Peter with the symbiote for a full movie before having to remove it and it bonding with Eddie. I want to see that white spider on the black suit on the movie poster!!!

But, my worry is that Webb seems to be going out of his way to do things differently than what was done before. Mind you in some ways that's a good thing as I would hate to see some of the mistakes of Spiderman 3 happen again, but would he be willing to forgo Peter first having the symbiote suit and instead start of Brock (or worse, someone else) with the symbiote? I hate to say it but my gut says yes...

 

[Picard Sisko]

I don't think that's going to happen. The sybmiote attaching to Peter is essential to the Venom storyline, so unless they go right for "Agent Venom," I doubt we'll be missing out on a symbiote Spider-Man. Webb's version of the story will probably be different from Raimi's in the sense that the symbiote won't be an alien, and will probably be a creation of Oscorp like in USM.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Yes unfortunately that is what I am saying.

Believe me, I want the story done right. I want Peter with the symbiote for a full movie before having to remove it and it bonding with Eddie. I want to see that white spider on the black suit on the movie poster!!!

But, my worry is that Webb seems to be going out of his way to do things differently than what was done before. Mind you in some ways that's a good thing as I would hate to see some of the mistakes of Spiderman 3 happen again, but would he be willing to forgo Peter first having the symbiote suit and instead start of Brock (or worse, someone else) with the symbiote? I hate to say it but my gut says yes...

well when they did in sm3, they did it wrong. the symbiote suit was pretty much the same as the spider suit except it was all black (lazy ****ing raimi, **** him). it didn't look the way it was supposed to.

 

[Green Goblin]

I think the S6 film will possibly be a prequel to the "cross-over" one with Spidey.

We will be introduced to the team in it and it will follow them trying to "redeem" themselves for what they have done.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I think it will either be a prequel to the "cross-over" film with Spider-Man, or it will be a S6 vs. Spider-Man film from the get-go.

 

[Super Jim]

^ Right.

But if it's a prequel they wouldn't be trying to redeem themselves. They would be forming and getting ready to take on Spidey in the next Amazing film.

Personally, I can't see how an S6 prequel (or a Venom prequel) would be good. Just make the Amazing Spiderman film 2 movies with the S6 being formed/introduced in one, and Peter fighting them in the second!

 

[Picard Sisko]

There would be no reason to make a Sinister Six follow-up after fighting Spider-Man. Why would they need to 'redeem' themselves?

 

[Green Goblin]

There would be no reason to make a Sinister Six follow-up after fighting Spider-Man. Why would they need to 'redeem' themselves?

They will have committed crimes and are imprisoned in Ravencroft. If RC has any common sense then they will know that putting six bad guys in one cell is a bad idea.

If they never meet in RC how will they be formed? My guess is that someone, say The Gentleman will form them and try to show them as changed men who are fighting for the greater good.They could bring the Lizard in as a guy genuinely looking to redeem himself while the rest are planning "their escape".

 

[Picard Sisko]

You mean after the S6 fights Spider-Man, they would mend their ways and fight for justice?

 

[DrCosmic]

Personally, I can't see how an S6 prequel (or a Venom prequel) would be good. Just make the Amazing Spiderman film 2 movies with the S6 being formed/introduced in one, and Peter fighting them in the second!

Watch any movie where criminals are the heroes, like Inception, or Ocean's 11 and you'll get a good idea how awesome a Sinister Six movie can be. They take on a bigger bad guy and a *****ey good guy and it's from their perspective, so they're the heroes. Inception is a great one. The Italian Job. Now You See Me. A criminal brings together criminals to fight worse criminals while avoiding law enforcing criminals. Always fun, but now with super powers.

For me personally, I don't want to watch a two hour movie with Spider-Man and the Sinister Six in it and they never fight. Worse, I definitely don't want to see Spider-Man vs Sinister 6 in two movies back to back. That's so wack.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Have there been any stories about the Sinister Six that don't involve Spider-Man?

 

[Green Goblin]

You mean after the S6 fights Spider-Man, they would mend their ways and fight for justice?

No,

This is after they fight Spider-Man individually

 

[Morbius]

Watch any movie where criminals are the heroes, like Inception, or Ocean's 11 and you'll get a good idea how awesome a Sinister Six movie can be. They take on a bigger bad guy and a *****ey good guy and it's from their perspective, so they're the heroes. Inception is a great one. The Italian Job. Now You See Me. A criminal brings together criminals to fight worse criminals while avoiding law enforcing criminals. Always fun, but now with super powers.

For me personally, I don't want to watch a two hour movie with Spider-Man and the Sinister Six in it and they never fight. Worse, I definitely don't want to see Spider-Man vs Sinister 6 in two movies back to back. That's so wack.

Most of these movies are dialogue driven and the criminals are smooth, charismatic sex symbols. All of that breaks down when you plant Rhino, Doc Ock and Electro in there. They just don't work the same way. Their wacky superpowers are what they use to get things done - not their speech, not their glamour (for they have none), not even their wits - I would argue it always comes down to brute force in the end, supervillains in the spideyverse are just designed that way. A S6 movie won't work like 'An Ocean's 11' because there is no George Clooney and it will inevitably end in a superhero brawl. Then its just various CGI stunts of each villains zany powers competing for screentime, rather than an edge-of-your-seat heist pulled off by dashing criminals against all odds.

 

[Picard Sisko]

No,

This is after they fight Spider-Man individually

Gotcha.

 

[Dr. Evil]

So basically, Sinister Six would be the big screen version of the Dark Avengers? Or the Thunderbolts?

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Most of these movies are dialogue driven and the criminals are smooth, charismatic sex symbols. All of that breaks down when you plant Rhino, Doc Ock and Electro in there. They just don't work the same way. Their wacky superpowers are what they use to get things done - not their speech, not their glamour (for they have none), not even their wits - I would argue it always comes down to brute force in the end, supervillains in the spideyverse are just designed that way. A S6 movie won't work like 'An Ocean's 11' because there is no George Clooney and it will inevitably end in a superhero brawl. Then its just various CGI stunts of each villains zany powers competing for screentime, rather than an edge-of-your-seat heist pulled off by dashing criminals against all odds.

I think you are taking his examples too literally...Another example would be Kubrick's The Killing, where the criminals are much more rough around the edges and there is a strong element of distrust throughout. Some of the best damn moments in this thing would be the character moments. All of them sitting around a table in all their glory as they try to put the S6 puzzle together even though the pieces don't really fit. You are just waiting for them to stab each other in the back. Plenty of potentially great Avengers-type moments here. And how characters are designed in the comics vs. the screen are two different things.
Point is, it could easily be done with the right approach. Thankfully Goddard is writing this, I have faith in him.

 

[Green Goblin]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned a Uncle Ben origin story starring Charlie Sheen...

 

[Picard Sisko]

We still need more information on these villain centric films. Notice I didn't refer to them as "spin-offs," since the press release never used that term to describe them. I'm at least glad that Sony has a plan as to what they want to do, and already hired writers and directors to start working on them early.

If TASM3 is coming out in 2016, we can assume that Venom or S6 won't come out any earlier than 2017, which gives them a few years to work on the projects.

 

[Super Jim]

^ In thinking about the anti-hero concept I must agree with Morbius.

Another example is the movie Mobsters where the underdog, charismatic mob group is just four friends who go up against the two heavy hitter Dons.

See that one works because they must use brains over brawn (just like in any of those other villains versus bigger villains stories) and because the "good guys" are the underdogs.

Problem is, who would the Sinister Six be considered the underdogs against?

If it was the Sinister Six versus a hero (like Spider-Man) or a group of Heros (like the Avengers) then the hero or hero group would be the ones the general audience roots for. If it is a group of Anti-Heros (which is unlikely to begin with) then who would be the high threat villain or villain group?

I guess what I'm saying is that the Sinister Six is almost the epitome of the Spider-Man villains. Having to overcome 6 high end villains is almost an impossibility, making the story exciting. Same with the Maximum Carnage story where Spiderman needed help from Black Cat, Morbius, Iron Fist, Captain America, Firestar, and even Venom in order to beat Carnage, Shriek, Hobgoblin, demogoblin, etc.

So, take an S6 group of Doc Ock, Vulture, Rhino, Electro, and two others (to make people happy, say Mysterio and Kraven); and now tell me which existing villain would be more of a threat. Likely you would need a group of higher level villains, and I just don't see there being any more of a threat than the S6!

Also, the idea of having the S6 shake out over 2 Amazing Spider-Man films doesn't mean there wouldn't be any fighting by Spider-Man in the first one. Of course there would be! All I am saying is that the majority of the characters (maybe not all) would need to be introduced in the first flick and then brought together as the threat in the second. In some ways this may be happening already...

If the Goblin is the one to bring them together, then we already have this in place...

Goblin, who is already introduced, could be one of the 6, even though many do not like that idea...

Rhino, who is already introduced, could be one of the 6 as the muscle...

Vulture, whose wings will be shown, could be introduced in an after credits scene with a character already introduced in TASM2 (Adrien Toomes, or somebody else)...

Doc Ock, whose arm harness will be shown, could be introduced in an after credits scene with a character already introduced in TASM2 (Otto Octavius, or somebody else wearing a fedora or working as Oscorp)...

And then, as I have been arguing for months, they could use some "villains" to fill out the six, that aren't really villains. Black Cat, who many believe the alter-ego of which will be introduced, could easily fill this bill by switching sides and helping Spidey; as could Curt Connors, who has already been introduced.

See, there is a way to do the S6 in one movie, without having the too many villains issue!!!!!

 

[DrCosmic]

Most of these movies are dialogue driven and the criminals are smooth, charismatic sex symbols. All of that breaks down when you plant Rhino, Doc Ock and Electro in there. They just don't work the same way. Their wacky superpowers are what they use to get things done - not their speech, not their glamour (for they have none), not even their wits - I would argue it always comes down to brute force in the end, supervillains in the spideyverse are just designed that way. A S6 movie won't work like 'An Ocean's 11' because there is no George Clooney and it will inevitably end in a superhero brawl. Then its just various CGI stunts of each villains zany powers competing for screentime, rather than an edge-of-your-seat heist pulled off by dashing criminals against all odds.

I mean, if the writer was a clown hack, yeah. Someone with some talent might start by casting Clooney as Doc Ock. They certainly would put the criminals up against overwhelming odds and leave their resources strained to put the criminals in the typical heroic criminal position. A writer who understands the characters definitely wouldn't make them all about zany power usage and brute force. These are pretty much the most sympathetic and resourceful villains in comics. Doc Ock with no speech? Harry Osborn who only knows to throw pumpkin bombs? Kraven with no wit? Black Cat with no glamour? This is not someone who understands the characters.

Now there are some Spidey villains like that. Rhino, Sandman, and to a lesser degree Electro are almost entirely physical, but the same can be said for several members of Ocean's 11. You don't need *everyone* to be Clooney Pitt and Damon, you just need two characters with some sense, and a third to gain some during the film. There are dozens of versions of the Sinister Six that offer that.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Orci and Kurtman are hit and miss. If they hit, they hit big (Fringe, Sleepy Hollow, Hawaii Five-O) but they can also miss big too (Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen)

 

[Picard Sisko]

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen was written during a writer's strike. That shouldn't be used against them IMO.

Here are all the hits:

1. Star Trek
2. STID
3. Mission Impossible III
4. Transformers

"Transformers 2" was written during the writer's strike, as I mentioned already, and "The Island" wasn't too bad, just poorly directed IMO (thanks to Michael Bay).

 

[DrCosmic]

^ In thinking about the anti-hero concept I must agree with Morbius.

Another example is the movie Mobsters where the underdog, charismatic mob group is just four friends who go up against the two heavy hitter Dons.

See that one works because they must use brains over brawn (just like in any of those other villains versus bigger villains stories) and because the "good guys" are the underdogs.

Problem is, who would the Sinister Six be considered the underdogs against?

If it was the Sinister Six versus a hero (like Spider-Man) or a group of Heros (like the Avengers) then the hero or hero group would be the ones the general audience roots for. If it is a group of Anti-Heros (which is unlikely to begin with) then who would be the high threat villain or villain group?

I guess what I'm saying is that the Sinister Six is almost the epitome of the Spider-Man villains. Having to overcome 6 high end villains is almost an impossibility, making the story exciting. Same with the Maximum Carnage story where Spiderman needed help from Black Cat, Morbius, Iron Fist, Captain America, Firestar, and even Venom in order to beat Carnage, Shriek, Hobgoblin, demogoblin, etc.

So, take an S6 group of Doc Ock, Vulture, Rhino, Electro, and two others (to make people happy, say Mysterio and Kraven); and now tell me which existing villain would be more of a threat. Likely you would need a group of higher level villains, and I just don't see there being any more of a threat than the S6!

Also, the idea of having the S6 shake out over 2 Amazing Spider-Man films doesn't mean there wouldn't be any fighting by Spider-Man in the first one. Of course there would be! All I am saying is that the majority of the characters (maybe not all) would need to be introduced in the first flick and then brought together as the threat in the second. In some ways this may be happening already...

If the Goblin is the one to bring them together, then we already have this in place...

Goblin, who is already introduced, could be one of the 6, even though many do not like that idea...

Rhino, who is already introduced, could be one of the 6 as the muscle...

Vulture, whose wings will be shown, could be introduced in an after credits scene with a character already introduced in TASM2 (Adrien Toomes, or somebody else)...

Doc Ock, whose arm harness will be shown, could be introduced in an after credits scene with a character already introduced in TASM2 (Otto Octavius, or somebody else wearing a fedora or working as Oscorp)...

And then, as I have been arguing for months, they could use some "villains" to fill out the six, that aren't really villains. Black Cat, who many believe the alter-ego of which will be introduced, could easily fill this bill by switching sides and helping Spidey; as could Curt Connors, who has already been introduced.

See, there is a way to do the S6 in one movie, without having the too many villains issue!!!!!

Just as a note, if the S6 do fight Spider-Man two movies in a row then it's redundant and repetitive, which is just as bad or worse than them being in the same movie without fighting. There's just no reason to stretch out Spidey vs S6 into two films. Tell a great story, don't water it down and try to spin it as more epic than it already is.

To answer your question about who would be a bigger threat, there's two big answers in the Spidey-verse. One is Norman Osborn, who, with his own supervillain persona, uber genius science and vast endless resources could easily prove too much for a Sinister Six just busted out of prison and out for revenge. Kingpin could do similarly. The brawn of the Sinister Six, while quite notable, can't get them to the vault, it can't get them what they want. To say nothing of giving Osborn an army of Spider-clones or Kingpin an army of Spider-slayers.

The other thing I'd do is have some kind of cop or superhero on their tail too. A Jean DeWolffe or Prowler... or Frog Man. Man I'd have the Sinister Six kill Frog Man... geez, it'd be bad.

I'd have Doc Ock, and Kraven as the core duo, with Harry Osborn as the team's backer. I'd fill the rest out with Electro the demigod philosopher, Rhino the angry thug, Black Cat the femme fatale heist expert and Mysterio the SFX techie (and martyr, replaced by Harry's Goblin).

 

[Picard Sisko]

So when do you guys think Venom and S6 are coming out in correlation with the other films?

 

[Picard Sisko]

It could go in this order:

1. TASM1
2. TASM2
3. TASM3
4. Venom
5. Sinister Six
6. TASM4

or

1. TASM1
2. TASM2
3. TASM3
4. TASM4: Sinister Six
5. Venom

Perhaps The Amazing Spider-Man 4 will focus on the Sinister Six and Spider-Man uses the symbiote to fight the villainous team? Then the next installment will be the Venom movie.