Sequels Sony Expands Spider-Man Cinematic Universe: Announced Venom and Sinister Six movies

[DrCosmic]

The Sinister Six will not be standalone. It would probably be a Spider-Man vs. S6 film, perhaps just focusing more on the Sinister Six this time around.

Why would they make a redundant movie instead of a unique one? I really don't get that. If they were making a Loki movie, wouldn't it be dumb to have him just fight Thor again when he could be dealing with Surtur and Ymir? Wouldn't S6 vs Someone Else be a much better idea?

^ That's my hope! My only worry is with the apparent Sinister Six plans, as possibly both villains against Spider-Man and getting their own movie (which I don't see the purpose of), it's like they are making things so big there's no way to top it.

...

Look, although I love the idea of an S6 as I believe it would be so big, that's really the problem. It will be so big that topping it would be tough...

Well, you top a S6 film by having him fight Spider-Man in the next ASM film. And you top ASM: Sinister Six by... not topping it. Same way Avengers 2 is... they're not trying to have a bigger alien invasion... they're making it more personal. If they want to top it down the line they can, just like Spidey can with Clone Sagas or Spider-Island.

I don't get it guys... what's the problem with the Sinister Six not fighting Spider-Man? You guys keep looking for reasons not to do what seems like a really simple obvious idea to me. What am I missing?

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

^^
I hear ya.

I get so weary of posters who prattle on about how certain things won't work because they themselves can't see it. They should realize that beyond a certain point, fellow posters could care less about their worries if they themselves are excited about the project. People have explained how it could work, but even those explanations may be completely off base with how Goddard will approach this thing. Exciting, isn't it...?

How 'bout you wait and see how it can work? Or don't.

WE GET IT, YOU HAVE DOUBTS.

 

[Super Jim]

^ I think we all agree that the Sinister Six would be an amazing villainous group for an amazing Spider-Man film, yes? Just like Venom (if done right) would be amazing, yes?

So the real question is why make a stand-alone Sinister Six movie.

First question, would it be as a prequel to an Amazing Spider-Man film where the S6 are the villains, or would it be a spin-off after Spiderman has already fought them?

After is kind of stupid, right? I mean, the members of the Sinister Six, or at least most, are bad, evil, whatever and will need to be defeated. Yes, as I've argued, one or two could turn, be good guys, whatever, but the heart of the S6 (Doc Ock, Vulture, Rhino - if he's used, etc.) are bad guys through and through and will need to be defeated. That means they are either dead, or in Ravencroft. Sure, one or two might get away but generally they need to be defeated.

So after they are beat, why have a movie with them? They are not good guys! They are not anti-heros like some others (Venom, Deadpool, etc.).

So the more logical stand alone idea would be a Sinister Six prequel that leads to them being the big bad in an Amazing Spiderman film. So first point... is a whole prequel really needed? If existing, or at least introduced characters make up the S6 then there is no need for a prequel. It could all be done in one flick. Also, the average audience member wouldn't know the Sinister Six unless they are first in an Amazing Spiderman movie, so why force it?

It seems way more logical to take Goblin, or Doc Ock (an Engineer at Oscorp), Vulture (introduced in an amazing movie), Rhino (previously established), Black Cat (Alicia will be previously introduced) and maybe Doc Connors (who everyone knows) and form them through various means into the Sinister Six. The backstory lead in wouldn't be that bad since some have already been established. One amazing 2.5 hours with one or two (Black Cat/Lizard) turning on the other villains and/or helping Spidey. I would love to see Black Cat help Peter take down one or two of the baddies before Peter has to go it alone against the leader.

If instead they have a Sinister Six prequel (again, they are unknown to the GA) then you need an even bigger villain for them to go against. It can't be the S6 versus some non-Spidey good guy or guys. That defeats the purpose. It would have to be versus Venom (which limits his use against Spidey), or versus Kingpin (where would the threat come from) or Norman versus the S6 (limits Norman and kills the flow). It just doesn't make sense.

Now yes, a Venom standalone, after being established in an Amazing Spiderman movie makes a lot of sense. He's an anti-hero with a great backstory that the GA would appreciate. I could even see him having a movie in between the movie he's in with Spidey and then a Maximum Carnage flick.

So it would be like this:

Amazing Spider-Man 4: Venom
Amazing Venom 1: Versus Sin-Eater maybe?
Amazing Spider-Man 5: Maximum Carnage with both Spidey and Venom!

But Sinister Six as a standalone? I just don;t see what you are seeing as the main benefits!

 

[Picard Sisko]

Why would they make a redundant movie instead of a unique one? I really don't get that. If they were making a Loki movie, wouldn't it be dumb to have him just fight Thor again when he could be dealing with Surtur and Ymir? Wouldn't S6 vs Someone Else be a much better idea?

Wait, why would S6 vs. Spider-Man be redundant if Spider-Man had never fought them before on the big screen? Loki is a different case considering he has played the villain in multiple films already.

I don't get it guys... what's the problem with the Sinister Six not fighting Spider-Man? You guys keep looking for reasons not to do what seems like a really simple obvious idea to me. What am I missing?

An "obvious" idea? No, its not obvious. Forming the Sinister Six in the Spider-Man film universe only to never see them fight Spider-Man is a wasted opportunity.

 

[Picard Sisko]

^^
I hear ya.

I get so weary of posters who prattle on about how certain things won't work because they themselves can't see it. They should realize that beyond a certain point, fellow posters could care less about their worries if they themselves are excited about the project. People have explained how it could work, but even those explanations may be completely off base with how Goddard will approach this thing. Exciting, isn't it...?

How 'bout you wait and see how it can work? Or don't.

WE GET IT, YOU HAVE DOUBTS.

Never said it wouldn't work, but I think it would be a wasted opportunity not to see Spider-Man fight the Sinister Six.

 

[Picard Sisko]

"So no, I think with Spider-Man 4, the intention is for it to be "Spider-Man."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01...=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+ign/all+(IGN+All)

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

So the more logical stand alone idea would be a Sinister Six prequel that leads to them being the big bad in an Amazing Spiderman film. So first point... is a whole prequel really needed? If existing, or at least introduced characters make up the S6 then there is no need for a prequel. It could all be done in one flick. Also, the average audience member wouldn't know the Sinister Six unless they are first in an Amazing Spiderman movie, so why force it?

It seems way more logical to take Goblin, or Doc Ock (an Engineer at Oscorp), Vulture (introduced in an amazing movie), Rhino (previously established), Black Cat (Alicia will be previously introduced) and maybe Doc Connors (who everyone knows) and form them through various means into the Sinister Six. The backstory lead in wouldn't be that bad since some have already been established. One amazing 2.5 hours with one or two (Black Cat/Lizard) turning on the other villains and/or helping Spidey. I would love to see Black Cat help Peter take down one or two of the baddies before Peter has to go it alone against the leader.

If instead they have a Sinister Six prequel (again, they are unknown to the GA) then you need an even bigger villain for them to go against. It can't be the S6 versus some non-Spidey good guy or guys. That defeats the purpose. It would have to be versus Venom (which limits his use against Spidey), or versus Kingpin (where would the threat come from) or Norman versus the S6 (limits Norman and kills the flow). It just doesn't make sense.

Yes it would be a Prequel, the formation and introduction/re-introduction.

It's hard to say what will happen since it'll be tied into the Spider-Man films. Without a clear picture of what the studio has in mind or what characters will be used, it's all speculation. We're just spitballing here..

You don't have to "root" for them in the traditional hero vs. villian sense. You don't have to cast a charming George Clooney-type in the roles so the audience will like them. You just have to make the audience connect and identify with them somehow. Could they be "victims" of Oscorp and by extension Norman Osborn? If so, there is the bigger villian, Osborn and his empire. It would also be the audiences way into the group, to allow themselves to root for this mishmash of knuckleheads, egomaniacs and predators. At this point Osborn will most likely (possibly?) have been painted as the guy who killed Gwen and just f--ked with Peter's life (parents?) in general, so the audience would want this guy to burn.

Who backs them? Is it the Kingpin? Manipulating them by playing on they're egos and vunerabilities? He'd play them like a fiddle. Is he after Oscorp tech/research to advance his own criminal empire with the assistance of his own scientists? Would be a good way to introduce the Kingpin into the universe. And how does Spidey fit into all this? If the film is from the criminal perspective, is Spidey just on the periphery? Perhaps just showing up to disrupt they're activities? Does he just appear on the big screen TV in the Sinister Six's lair? woot

What if the S6 are about to kill Osborn, but Spidey stops them (perhaps the only time we see him in person on screen) from doing so. He helps the guy who f--ked him over and further ruins the guys who were victimized/destroyed by the same monster he was....How messed up is that for the audience? Spidey and Osborn take down the S6 together and give them the ultimate motivation to shread Spidey to bits in the following film. Again, we just don't know what is possible until we see the next couple of films unfold. Where does Kraven or Mysterio come in? Does Sony even have rights to the Kingpin? These questions could only be answered (or would be) after the third film.

To me the greatest moments in a S6 film would be the character moments. Think of all the great humorous moments that could happen when these characters attempt to get together and ultimately work together. It could be absolute gold What would they do to Ock if they were beginning to find his attitude insufferable? Could be funny. Or maybe not. I'd go the funny route.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Never said it wouldn't work, but I think it would be a wasted opportunity not to see Spider-Man fight the Sinister Six.

I was referring to Super Jim, but I've responded to him.

 

[DrCosmic]

So the more logical stand alone idea would be a Sinister Six prequel that leads to them being the big bad in an Amazing Spiderman film. So first point... is a whole prequel really needed? If existing, or at least introduced characters make up the S6 then there is no need for a prequel. It could all be done in one flick. Also, the average audience member wouldn't know the Sinister Six unless they are first in an Amazing Spiderman movie, so why force it?

It seems way more logical to take Goblin, or Doc Ock (an Engineer at Oscorp), Vulture (introduced in an amazing movie), Rhino (previously established), Black Cat (Alicia will be previously introduced) and maybe Doc Connors (who everyone knows) and form them through various means into the Sinister Six. The backstory lead in wouldn't be that bad since some have already been established. One amazing 2.5 hours with one or two (Black Cat/Lizard) turning on the other villains and/or helping Spidey. I would love to see Black Cat help Peter take down one or two of the baddies before Peter has to go it alone against the leader.

If instead they have a Sinister Six prequel (again, they are unknown to the GA) then you need an even bigger villain for them to go against. It can't be the S6 versus some non-Spidey good guy or guys. That defeats the purpose. It would have to be versus Venom (which limits his use against Spidey), or versus Kingpin (where would the threat come from) or Norman versus the S6 (limits Norman and kills the flow). It just doesn't make sense.

Now yes, a Venom standalone, after being established in an Amazing Spiderman movie makes a lot of sense. He's an anti-hero with a great backstory that the GA would appreciate. I could even see him having a movie in between the movie he's in with Spidey and then a Maximum Carnage flick.

So it would be like this:

Amazing Spider-Man 4: Venom
Amazing Venom 1: Versus Sin-Eater maybe?
Amazing Spider-Man 5: Maximum Carnage with both Spidey and Venom!

But Sinister Six as a standalone? I just don;t see what you are seeing as the main benefits!

Iron Man was unknown to the GA too, so were the characters of Inception and Avatar. If the characters are great, the GA will like them.

If you introduce the Sinister Six in a Spider-Man film, you force yourself to use only the villains that have already been introduced (meaning you can't kill any off or turn any good beforehand) PLUS you can't do any additional development of those villains since they have to split villain time six ways. So the point would be to develop the ideal Sinister Six instead of just getting what scraps you can after Spider-Man devours most of the screen time in his films.

What do you mean when you say "that defeats the purpose." Why would a story about the S6 killing Frog Man or Jean DeWolffe be pointless? Wouldn't that make them even more dangerous baddies? What do you say is the purpose? That might be the key to me understanding where you're coming from.

Plus, Peter going it alone against one member of the Sinister Six isn't very entertaining. We'll have already seen him beat that guy one on one, going with your plan. The Sinister Six is awesome because Spider-Man has to fight them all at once.

And I don't understand this "kill the flow" thing. Loki being defeated in Avengers didn't kill the flow with Thor 2. And Norman wouldn't even be defeated that badly... he'd just have his bank account cleaned out. So why would defeating Norman kill the flow if defeating Loki didn't kill the flow?

Wait, why would S6 vs. Spider-Man be redundant if Spider-Man had never fought them before on the big screen? Loki is a different case considering he has played the villain in multiple films already.

It'd be redundant if he had fought them before. If Spidey is the main antagonist in the Sinister Six movie, then it makes the Spidey vs Sinister Six fights in Amazing Spider-Man 4 redundant.

By that time, most/all of the S6 would have been the villains in multiple films already too. It's the same thing, but you're treating it different somehow, I don't get it. There's something you're not telling me.

An "obvious" idea? No, its not obvious. Forming the Sinister Six in the Spider-Man film universe only to never see them fight Spider-Man is a wasted opportunity.

I agree with that. I thought you were implying that the Sinister Six *had* to fight Spider-Man in their first appearance. That they couldn't fight anyone else first and fight him in a later film, that they couldn't have a standalone film because... I'm not sure why.

Sony doesn't feel that way, btw.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/11/21/spider-man-expanded-universe/

Spider-Man’s world is about to get bigger.
“We do very much have the ambition about creating a bigger universe around Spider-Man. There are a number of scripts in the works,” Sony Pictures Entertainment Chairman and Chief Executive Michael Lynton told investors Thursday. And any character within Spider-Man’s universe is fair game for a spinoff, including villains and girlfriends.

So what is it, exactly, that doesn't say "Oh, a movie starring the Sinister Six? Great idea!"

I personally could go for a Mary Jane movie myself...

 

[DrCosmic]

"So no, I think with Spider-Man 4, the intention is for it to be "Spider-Man."

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01...=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+ign/all+(IGN+All)

Oh, I didn't read this, good find. This article is all about how ASM4 isn't Sinister Six and how S6 is it's own film. He seems confused that anyone would think that ASM4 was the same as the Sinister Six film, because even if they're in it, no one would call Iron Man 2 "the Whiplash Film."

 

[Picard Sisko]

That interview still left me pretty confused, but its nice to know that TASM4 is still TASM4 coming out in 2018. But what did Marc mean by, "it may not just be a Spider-Man film?" That's why people are assuming that movie will focus on S6, but even still… I feel like we are left in the dark.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

"And any character within Spider-Man’s universe is fair game for a spinoff, including villains and girlfriends. "

I'm sure this applies to Felicia, although I doubt we ever see it. I really wouldn't be interested either.

Sinister Six and Venom are no brainers.

Hopefully we get to see Hobgoblin in a Spidey film down the line. #1 on my list.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I'd love to see a Black Cat spin-off.

 

[Oscorp]

Yeah, but like I said, it's all riding on one character....so it's much riskier. There was a solo Hulk film, a solo Thor film, a solo Cap film and two IM films. The build-up was much more diverse, therefore the chance of burnout was pretty much non existent. Not the case here. They've already had their misstep out of the gate, so they can't really afford another. That's why I brought up the Goddard possibility, it would just be another 180 on Sony's part, but one that could definitely pay off.

ASM is generally considered a good film if you look at ratings and such. Sure, as a Spidey fan I'd like a Spidey Movie that's considered to be in the level of TDK or SM2, but ASM is far from a misstep.

 

[Picard Sisko]

ASM is generally considered a good film if you look at ratings and such. Sure, as a Spidey fan I'd like a Spidey Movie that's considered to be in the level of TDK or SM2, but ASM is far from a misstep.

 

[Green Goblin]

Am I the only one worried Sony are rushing a Sinister Six film?

Green Goblin, Doc Ock and Vulture need their own appearances before joining the Six.

If TASM4 is the S6 then how can they introduce three major foes in one film?

 

[Green Goblin]

I don't get it guys... what's the problem with the Sinister Six not fighting Spider-Man? You guys keep looking for reasons not to do what seems like a really simple obvious idea to me. What am I missing?

My Question would be this,

What villain could they use to fight the S6? Who's bigger than 6 major villains together?

 

[Picard Sisko]

Am I the only one worried Sony are rushing a Sinister Six film?

Green Goblin, Doc Ock and Vulture need their own appearances before joining the Six.

If TASM4 is the S6 then how can they introduce three major foes in one film?

Its possible that the Sinister Six movie will come out in between TASM3 and TASM4?

Maybe we've been looking at it wrong. TASM4 could be the BIG movie that everything is building up to. S6 could be the smaller "spin-off" that develops the characters and perhaps focuses on Doc Ock? What do you guys think?

 

[Dr. Evil]

I think the main leads for Sinister Six will be Jamie Foxx and Paul Giamatti, assuming both return.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I don't think they will be the leads. Electro and Rhino would never lead the S6.

If anyone other than Doc Ock will lead, then it will be Norman Osborn.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I don't think they will be the leads. Electro and Rhino would never lead the S6.

If anyone other than Doc Ock will lead, then it will be Norman Osborn.

Both will be leads because both are fairly big named actors.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

My Question would be this,

What villain could they use to fight the S6? Who's bigger than 6 major villains together?

Did you read my post? Or others? No wonder this thread keeps asking the same questions. The Kingpin? Osborn? Maybe a government organization makes a deal to get them out of Ravencroft if they help take down Osborn or the Kingpin. Or they could just make a deal with Ock and he has to pick his team. Perhaps it's a crooked money backer (Kingpin) who uses them to take someone or something down (Osborn and Oscorp, a secret government orginization), but who they eventually turn on. So multiple big time antagonists they could battle. And all this drama while fighting amongst themselves.....This isn't too hard a concept is it?

I took Orci's comment on the S6 film to mean: "We know how we want to to approach this film, but we don't want to reveal characters, plot points or ideas to a magazine before we even get to the second draft." The story is still in flux.

Not to mention spoil future Spidey films before the second is even in theaters.

 

[Picard Sisko]

A Sinister Six vs. Green Goblin could be pretty neat. Or some of the other ideas that you pointed out.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Thanks

I mean it's pretty basic at this point considering what little we know, but if you sit down and think about how a film like this could work, there are a myriad of possibilities.

 

[Dr. Evil]

So they would be like the Thunderbolts?