World SPIDER-MAN: Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[Abaddon]

Damn Abaddon and Logan, you guys have talent.

Thank you.

I like it here, on the SPidey sequel board I asked if Spider-Man should some day get a relaunch (Batman Begins) and I'm getting ridiculed on there. I'm also getting bombarded for criticizing Spidey's ymbiote suit and the Green Goblin II's costume.

You're safe here.

I actually think a relaunch would be good in about a decade. The movies are too popular now for one to be done in th next few years.

 

[Tangled Web]

You're safe here.

I actually think a relaunch would be good in about a decade. The movies are too popular now for one to be done in th next few years.

I agree, I think Stan Lee and Kevin Smith should get cracking on it now. Maybe they should use some of your ideas.

 

[Abaddon]

ehh....I dunno about Kevin Smith.

 

[Tangled Web]

That man know his comics. Well, maybe he could help write and then we'd get Peter Jackson to direct.

 

[Abaddon]

It would definitely have to be someone who respects the comics,and has the imagination and ambition(though not too much) to pull it off.

 

[Tangled Web]

Definitley.

 

[Tangled Web]

Get some hardcore Spider-Man fans to help write it.

 

[Abaddon]

they'll be at each others throats the whole time.

 

[Herr Logan]

I like it here, on the SPidey sequel board I asked if Spider-Man should some day get a relaunch (Batman Begins) and I'm getting ridiculed on there. I'm also getting bombarded for criticizing Spidey's ymbiote suit and the Green Goblin II's costume.

Right, I saw that. Those people are cowardly, conformist drones with inadequate intelligence and individual identity issues who will not only accept whatever is thrown at them, but they actually take criticism of these movies as personal insults. It's disgusting behavior, and its overwhelming presence on the Hype is why I created the various Safe Havens. I'll stay out of threads that clearly state that only supporters of the stated topic are welcome, and mindless sheep are prohibited from coming in here. In mixed company threads, however, they still have to watch out for me.

It's been clear from the beginning that Spider-Man needed a relaunch. If they aren't willing to do it right, then they shouldn't do it at all, so I don't care when it happens. Certain things are necessary for movies to be faithful to various characters, and if they can't muster up the balls to do it right with the resources they have, then it would be a waste of money.

 

[Herr Logan]

ehh....I dunno about Kevin Smith.

Oh, God no... Kevin Smith is too much of an arrogant bastard to write or direct a major Marvel franchise correctly. Granted, I'm an arrogant bastard, too, but the difference is that I haven't made millions of dollars off of characters I've created, so I'm not under the delusion that I can twist the characters, themes and events and get away with it based on my own previous accomplishments.

I'd want the job of producer and overall editor for these ideal superhero franchises. I know I don't have the ability to do the writing on my own or the directing, but I know what belongs and doesn't belong in a faithful movie series, more or less. And nobody can say that I'm not willing to make some changes for the sake of a movie format, because I'm actually worried about the number of changes I've suggested for various franchises (wondering if the conformist apologists haven't somehow penetrated my subconscious or something), especially an X-Men one (since their history is more complex than many others and I want to capture a bigger range of history for them than for Spider-Man).

It would definitely have to be someone who respects the comics,and has the imagination and ambition(though not too much) to pull it off.

Damn right!

 

[Herr Logan]

That man know his comics. Well, maybe he could help write and then we'd get Peter Jackson to direct.

Kevin Smith ruined his comics cred with 'Spider-Man and Black Cat: The Evil That Men Do.' I wouldn't want him anywhere near movies I'd want made (unless it was a minor cameo, thrown in for added fan appeal, which is admittedly kind of a sleazy thing to do).

 

[Herr Logan]

Get some hardcore Spider-Man fans to help write it.

they'll be at each others throats the whole time.

Oh Lawdy, yes, they would.

 

[Herr Logan]

I'm going to confess something about myself, and I'm going to put it in context.

The black costume in 'Spider-Man 3.' I'm not completely against the visual design. The spider on the front needs to be a hell of a lot bigger and reach into an identical one on his back, that much is unquestionable, but I'm not completely against the basic design. That is not in any conceivable way a compliment or condoning of everything else they've completely screwed up about this move (every single other thing, basically).

Here's the thing-- I wouldn't have given Spider-Man raised web patterns on his regular in my ideal Spider-Man franchise. It would not have been that fancy, at all. These worthless, insecure sheep who prattle on about "realism" as a way of defending failure seem to somehow accept the idea of a broke-ass teenager making something like that by himself, and no, Peter David trying to make excuses for that in the novelization of 'Spider-Man 2,' like he often does in thos novelizations, does not justify this, at all. It's bull$hit, plain and simple.
Anyway, I'd probably have the web-lines drawn on in permanent ink, or pressed on with one of those pressing things that put designs on shirts.

If this was the case, then I think it would be more acceptable for the symbiote to add raised web-patterns. It wouldn't look like a cheap repainting, because the original costume would seem much cheaper (you know, like something more likely to be cobbled together at home by a broke teenager who is not a professional tailor) and the new one would seem fancier in some ways. It would be Peter trying to make it look more like his original suit, and enjoying the fact that he didn't need to meticulously and perfectly draw every line. He loves his new suit, especially since he can make it look like anything he wants and not have to wear two outfits all the time.
I'd have the symbiote produce organic webbing, just like in the comics, and obviously Spider-Man would have been using mechanical web-shooters up to that point (because that's what the real Spider-Man has always done, despite what studio apologist cowards want to believe). He'll once again enjoy the convenience of the symbiote's abilities.
I haven't decided that I'd have the symbiote change Peter's personality to be more aggressive. That was never in the comics, but rather the Animated Series. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to it, I'm just saying I know the actual story, whereas Sam Raimi probably never even read those issues. Even without making him more "evil," there's still a good reason for Spider-Man to want to get rid of it. It makes him web-swing and fight crime in his sleep, making him wake up more tired than when he went to sleep, and this continues for days. That alone could make him more irritable and reckless. When he finds out that he's been taking excursions in his sleep since he found the black suit, and also has noticed the suit moving by itself when not on him sometimes, he gets it checked out (probably by Curt Connors, unless a faithful Fantastic Four movie had already come out, in which case it might be Reed Richards, like it was in the comics). He finds out it's a symbiotic organism that wants to bond permanently with his physiology, possibly taking over all his brain functions. That makes it necessary to remove it.

Anyway, there's my qualified confession. Again, I'm not signing off on 'Spider-Man 3' in any way.


People seem to think that in the comics the Symbiote changed Spider-Man's personality and then drove Eddie Brock insane. That's not how it happened, or not fully. Spider-Man was only sleep-deprived, and while there's a good chance that the Symbiote's emotions changed Eddie Brock when they bonded, it's just as likely, if not more, that Brock drove the Symbiote crazy with his own craziness. I would want it made clear that Brock would be unstable before he comes into contact with it. Also, he'd obviously have no love triangle whatsoever with Spider-Man, since that never happened in the comics. Well, actually, there was a love triangle, but it was between Brock, the Symbiote and Spider-Man, not any human women. The Symbiote wanted Spider-Man, settled for Brock and then eagely came back to Peter when Spider-Man told it to come back (which didn't actually work and ended up shocking both men into unconsciousness because it was truly bonded to Brock, and that's exactly why Peter asked it to come back).

I'd have Venom be the very last major villain Spider-Man fought in my ideal film franchise, and it would end with Peter and Mary Jane being married. It's not because I don't like the character of Venom, because I do to a large degree.
I don't think I have to tell anyone that Peter's romance issues would never be the driving force or most important theme of my Spider-Man series. I actually do think that Peter's marriage to Mary Jane, while clearly offering many good story opportunities, ties the writers' hands in the long run. That is not a sign of approval for whatever Joe Quesada is planning in the comics, because any fan with half a brain knows you can't get rid of Mary Jane and move on at this point. Still, I'd want to put it off until the end of my movie franchise so we don't have to deal with the ramifications. I like young Spider-Man the best (not to be confused with 'Ultimate Spider-Man,' which, while in many ways is closer to the comics than Movie!Spider-Man, is in no way the real Spider-Man).
Also, Brock would never be a professional rival for Peter, and certainly not a photographer. He never was that in the comics. He was a writer for the news, not a photojournalist, and he worked for a rival news company. I think I could have considered the possibility of Brock working for the Daily Bugle (it would save on sets and the cost of extras) if not for Sam Raimi's atrocious watering-down of the entire Venom Saga. I may keep that open as a possibility, but either way, the original target of Brock's anger will be Spider-Man only, not Peter Parker. He only hates Parker subsequently because he happens to be Spider-Man.

 

[Bullseye]

You mean in a new franchise done by you, or the current existing one?

Specificly the existing franchise. It would involve Normin/Green Goblin returning to the franchise.

My thoughts about the new costume in Spider-Man 3. In my opinion, I think they got it right with the black costume. I couldn't really see the exact replica from the comics being put on the big screen.

It also goes along the saying that not everything in the comics can be transitioned to the films.

 

[Herr Logan]

Specificly the existing franchise. It would involve Normin/Green Goblin returning to the franchise.

My thoughts about the new costume in Spider-Man 3. In my opinion, I think they got it right with the black costume. I couldn't really see the exact replica from the comics being put on the big screen.

It also goes along the saying that not everything in the comics can be transitioned to the films.

Be careful with saying things like that last sentence. It verges on violating the rules, as it's very similar to “movies and comics are different mediums, so there have to be changes” which is a generic, unspecific buzz-word phrase that is specifically stated as unwelcome here. The philosophy of this and all other Safe Haven threads is that most things from the comics can be translated to film, with minor alterations here and there. For example, changing Electro's look from having yellow lightning bolts on a green catsuit and a starfish mask to dark green electric lineman's overalls and a star-shaped energy signature that forms around his head (instead of a mask) when he "powers up" is a change that still respects the source material. Throwing out a costume and star-shaped image over his head altogether and just giving him a trench coat or something like that (think Ultimate Electro, which is a piss-poor attempt at revamping the concept, like most Ultimate "innovations"... the best change I can think of in 'Ultimate Spider-Man' is giving the Enforcer named Montana a whip instead of a lasso) would not be an acceptable change. Likewise, getting rid of Wolverine's costume design altogether is lazy and disrespectful, whereas changing the coloring somewhat (like changing yellow and blue to orange and black... making it all black is unacceptable, unless a character wore it originally) and giving him a mask with sleek wingtips is fine.

It's not that the phrase isn't literally true, it's that too many people accept it without considering it and apply it to too many aspects from the comics. I say this because I don't want the anti-source material vibe that rages on outside this thread to penetrate and gain momentum. The purpose here is to make things as close to the comics as possible while allowing for minor changes that make sense and do not detract from the fantastic elements what is indisputably a fantastic and colorful genre. Examples of acceptable changes from the source material that were put into existing movies is having Norman Osborn's Goblin formula and glider built for the purposes of selling to the U.S. military, and the physical design of Movie!Ock's tentacle harness (not the part about AI programming overtaking the wearer's mind, though... that part unequivocally destroys the character of Dr. Octopus, and any suggestion to that effect is expressly forbidden here). Certain changes can be vast improvements, or slight improvements, or just a neutral effect. Most changes seen in existing movies have been detrimental for the purposes of this thread. They do not count as "faithful."

I know that any filmmaker worth a damn could make the comics version of the black suit look just fine on screen. A smooth black catsuit is one of the easiest things to get right in a superhero film. I don't sorta like the basic design of the movie's black costume (with exception for the incorrect spider design, which needs to be white, large and mirrored on the back, or it simply isn't the black Spider-Man costume) because I think the original version isn't good. I sorta like it because I think it would look cool, if it was in the context that the original red and blue suit didn't have raised webbing. As it is, it's a pretty lazy change. If the raised webbing was unique to the symbiote suit, then it would be an actual creative change.

 

[Herr Logan]

Go to this thread now: it's Crisis on Infinite Safe Havens!

Best of luck to you all, and thanks for all your contributions and support.

 

[Zev]

I'm Taking Over

 

[Herr Logan]

Look again and read carefully.

 

[Tangled Web]

Some Topher fanboy had the audacity to say I should be banned for not thinking Grace is good for the role.

 

[Herr Logan]

Some Topher fanboy had the audacity to say I should be banned for not thinking Grace is good for the role.

That is a sign of unforgivable weakness of character. He's so devoid of a personality of his own that he would say something that extreme in defense of something that really has absolutely nothing to do with him. Pathetic. People like that shouldn't be allowed to breath the air of decent, intelligent people.

 

[Greg_Mcduck]

Here's my complex outline-ish thing for a six movie Spider-Man series. The biggest problem with adapting anything into a movie series isn't about costume designs or cosmetic details like that, those are easy to get right no matter what Sam Raimi might tell you. The hardest this is figuring out how to inter-connect it all together. You can put Mysterio in at some point, but how does the character relate to everything else? Does Spider-Man go "Let's see, Tuesdays are Kraven fighting days, and Electro is a Thursday, so I'll just squeeze in Mysterio here on Wednesday?"

No, that'd be pretty silly, so you have to ask, how does something like a Mysterio plotline effect a Harry Osborn plotline, or a JJJ plotline? And you intercut the plotlines so it's all one movie instead of three mini-movies playing at the same time.

But in a classic six-film franchise, these connections begin to mutate the standard storyline, so that by the 6th movie, you got characters in complete different places than they originally were. It makes you ponder if Spider-Man should even be a multi-movie franchise.

WITH THAT SAID:

MOVIE ONE:

The first third of the movie opens with the classic Spider-Man origin. Peter is a very geeky kid in his senior year of high school, with a sort-of crush on Liz Allen and having to deal class bully Flash Thompson. Peter lives happily with his Aunt May and Uncle Ben, though financially they're just making ends meat. Aunt May is mostly concerned for his health, where as Ben tries to fuel Peter's ambitions in science, as well as tell Peter moral-rising stories about Peter's deceased parents.

Peter attends a science exhibition dealing with, among other things, radiation. One of the lab critters, a radioactive spider, escapes and bites Peter in the hand. Dr. Otto Octavius is among the presenters, though in no way is related to the spider or Peter Parker's storyline at this point.

Soon, Peter accidentally stumbles on a number of powers (none of which are organic webshooters). Peter decides to put these things to the test, making a super cheap makeshift costume and jumping into a ring with a professional wrestler. Peter beats him easily, and now with a super huge ego boost, decides to change his career path from science to entertainment.

Making a better-looking costume and some web shooters (it helps that the wrestling organization pays in cash), Peter, as the Amazing Spider-Man, begins doing stunts on television. He's a quick hit, perticularly with Flash Thompson. Thinking of himself nothing more than a performer, he fails to stop a thief from escaping the TV station, telling the security officer that it isn't his job. On his way back home, he discovers that the house was broken into and his Uncle Ben had been killed.

Furious, Spider-Man springs into action, finding the murderer surrounded in a warehouse. Spider-Man slips in and attacks the murderer, only to discover the killer is the same thief he had let escape earlier. Now full of guilt, Spider-Man webs the thief to a lamp post and returns home.

Peter graduates high school and manages to get into Empire State University thanks to science scholorships. Meanwhile, we learn that young John Jameson is returning from a long space flight. Peter Parker, disillusioned with entertainment and not yet a crime fighter, has returned to his goals in the fields of science, and he attends the re-entry. However, something goes wrong with the shuttle and it begins to fly out of control. Peter, realizing he's the only one who can do anything, puts on his suit, "kidnaps" a jet pilot to fly him close to the shuttle, swings onto the shuttle and quick-fixes the broken part, allowing to the shuttle to land safely.

Investigation begins on what happens. Among the crowd is Capt. George Stacy, who leads the investigation, and J.J Johnson, John Jameson's father and head of the Daily Bugle newspaper. J.J and Capt. Stacy are old friends (they both regular the country club), and together they figure out that the mysterious man must have been the Amazing Spider-Man from TV. Capt. Stacy wants to figure out who the Amazing Spider-Man is, but despite John's disapproval, J.J. immediatly dubs Spider-Man a menace in the paper. As J.J. is entering his office, he finds an envelope slipped under the seal of his window. It's a list of heists planned for the next couple of weeks, signed by The Vulture.

Peter Parker begins his college classes. There, he meets Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn. Gwen is a strong woman, and recognizes Peter's intellect, perticularly after being hit on by Flash Thompson. Peter also takes a liking to Harry, who has a similar feeble look but with a bit of an attitude. Both in need of room mates, the two get an apartment on campus, most of the money coming from Harry's side.

Not soon after do we meet Norman Osborn, head of Oscorp. It's clear that Norman, well not exactly evil, isn't a very pleasant person. Overly polite to Peter, giving backhanded comments on how someone as smart as Peter can finally put Harry, who Norman sees a slacker, in his place. Harry is continuesly upset by this because he isn't "making the standards of the Osborn name". We get subtle hints that Harry is a pill popper.

Meanwhile, in a lab not too far away, Dr. Otto Octavius works on various experiments with radioactive material (funded by Oscorp, but hardly a central project like in SM2). He manipulates the materials with four mechanical arms attached to a metal girdle around his waist. He controls the basic arm functions with his mind thanks to the arms' attachments to his spine, and the fine detail work is handled by a built-in computer. Otto is egotistical for reaching near-celebrity status in the science community, and his attitude ultimatly leads him to making a mixture mistake, creating a huge explosion. Otto is rushed to the hospital, the mech-arms grafted onto his body. The doctors fear brain damage. Otto slips into a coma.

Meanwhile, the mysterious Vulture is getting away with every crime on his list! Museum guards just don't expect an attack from above. Not to mention none of the photographers at the Daily Bugle can get a good shot of the guy. Peter Parker walks into the Daily Bugle office, looking for work. Two things happen. First, he meets Betty Brant, J.J.'s secretary, who is slightly depressed after a recent breakup. Peter offers some humor while waiting for his meeting with J.J., which lightens up her day. Second, Peter tries to get a job as a photographer, but can't get an offical position. Not giving up, Peter decides to freelance, finds out where Vulture is going to strike next, and prepares.

The Vulture pulls off a jewel heist just as he planned, but before he can get away, he has an unexpected visitor: Spider-Man. The two duel it out in a high-speed air battle, with Spider-Man taking a few quick breathers to take some pictures (I imagine one funny scene where the Vulture flies chest to the sky, Spider-Man landing on the Vulture's stomach, saying "cheese," taking a picture of the Vulture's face, and then punching him in the face). It's a tough battle, but ultimatly, Spider-Man is the victor. Vulture is handed over to the police (which includes, of course, Capt. Stacy).

Peter returns to the Daily Bugle with his pictures, getting a decent price for them. However, Peter learns that some of them are used for the J.J.'s continuing smear campaign against Spider-Man. Betty is impressed by Peter, and Peter manages to convince Betty to go out on a date with him.

At the college, Gwen learns about the date and shows a tad bit of disappointment, but isn't heart broken. Peter, Gwen and Harry do a little college mucking around and have some fun. Capt. Stacy shows up to check on his daughter, and offically meets Peter for the first time. Capt. Stacy is curious about Peter and how he got such good photographs.

Peter and Gwen go on their date. The two learn they aren't exactly a star couple, when Gwen still thinking about "this Ned guy in Paris".

Otto wakes up from his coma. Now slightly insane, He begins to think of himself at all-powerful, and quickly holds the hospital hostage, turning it into a mock lab. Peter walks Betty back to the Daily Bugle office (where she forgot something or something), where they find J.J. just getting off the phone. J.J. tells of Doc Ock taking over the hospital, and sends Peter to take pictures.

Peter dons his Spider-Man suits and dives head first into trouble. He thinks of Doc Ock as nothing but a fat guy with big toys, but soon has his butt handed to him (including the ever-popular slap in the face). Doc Ock's ego only swells with his victory over Spider-Man, but his hostages escape during the battle, and Doc Ock decides to leave to pursue his various life goals.

Begin the final act. Peter isn't doing to good. A bad first date, news that Aunt May is doing horribly in ways of money, and now the loss to Doc Ock. With Harry's dark personality starting to get to him, Peter turns to the only person around, Gwen. The two of them start to get closer, and Gwen delivers the Oscar-winning speech(tm) that starts to motivate Peter again.

Meanwhile, Doc Ock has been doing a little home invasion, stealing from various scientists and labs, planning to use science to become the world's most powerful man. Capt. Stacy manages to work out the places Doc Ock is most likely to hit, and the police lay an ambush on him in a residental area, but Doc Ock quickly climbs to the roofs and out of harm's way.

Peter Parkers learns about this, and with Gwen's words and the promise he made for Uncle Ben in mind, Spider-Man swings into action against this seemingly impossible foe.

The roof top battle begins. Doc Ock is surprised at first that Spider-Man is still alive, but quickly regains footing. The two fight, Doc Ock super confident that he does things like tie his shoe in the middle of battle. Then it happens. A section of the roof dislodges. Capt. Stacy rushes in to save a kid from getting crushed, and gets crushed himself. Spider-Man, now fighting with everything he's got, manages to tie two of Doc Ock's metal arms together with a beam, giving him enough time to slip past the other two arms and finally lay a single punch to Doc Ock's face, knocking the doctor out. Quickly tying him up with web, Spider-Man lowers Doc Ock to the waiting police.

Spider-Man approaches the dying Capt. Stacy, who reveals that he knew it was Peter behind the mask. The Capt. passes away just as Gwen arrives to the scene. Gwen begins to accuse Spider-Man for her father's death. Spider-Man flees the scene.

We go to Capt. Stacy's funeral, then to the Daily Bugle office, where J.J. types up a headline "Spider-Man: Murderer." At an airport, Gwen gets ready to leave for Europe to try and settle with herself. Peter and Harry send her off.

Peter sits on a roof top, pondering about the responsibilities that have come crashing down on him. Police sirens are heard in the distance, and despite now being a wanted man, Spider-Man swings into action.

The final scene is of Doc Ock getting strapped into a special cell in a high security prison, his arms locked into place. We see Adrian Toomes, the former Vulture, peering from his own cell. One of the prisoners walks to Doc Ock's cell door.

"Hey, freak," says the con. "You may have been some fancy-pants who gave the cops the run around out there, but in here, I'm in charge."

Doc Ock looks up and smiles.

"Oh, really?"

Movie 2 outline (if you call these outlines. More like short stories) tomorrow.

 

[Greg_Mcduck]

Or Doc Ock could kidnap Betty Brant for the final battle, I totally forgot about that.

 

[JLBats]

I'm going to take a page from the essay in Herr Logan's sig. Amazing Spider-Man #1-150 is one epic story. It is THE Spider-Man story. And what makes it even better for me is that it isn't just the Spider-Man story. The very important thing about those 150 issues is that it largely revolves around the Peter Parker-Gwen Stacy story. For me, this story has three movements, which makes it perfect for either a trilogy of movies, which is prefered, or one three act movie that would seem a little rushed.

Movie One: Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy's first encounters, mutual attractions and beginning of a romance

Movie Two: The deepening of that relationship and Gwen Stacy's subsequent death

Movie Three: Peter moving on from Gwen

What's beautiful about this is that, since Gwen's death happens in movie 2, Harry and Norman are already established and have already been developed in movie 1. The main story would be Peter and Gwen's emotional development as a couple. I would also introduce Mary Jane here, who Peter, as he did in the comics, basically writes off as a vapid party girl. The story of the Green Goblin would be a subplot, that only fully crosses paths with the main plot at the end of Act Two, when Gwen is kidnapped. In act three, we get a dead-on retelling of the death of Gwen Stacy, and that includes the moment of connection at the end between Peter and Mary Jane, opening the doors for him moving on and falling for Mary Jane in movie three. For me, the perfect villian for movie three would be either the Chameleon or Mysterio, because they can toy with Peter's real feelings regarding Gwen.

The only thing I don't particularly like about those 150 comics is the Betty Brant romance. I don't think it fits the movies. You could have it as mutual flirtation, but for me Gwen is far more interesting and worthy of exploration.

 

[Herr Logan]

Here's my complex outline-ish thing for a six movie Spider-Man series. The biggest problem with adapting anything into a movie series isn't about costume designs or cosmetic details like that, those are easy to get right no matter what Sam Raimi might tell you. The hardest this is figuring out how to inter-connect it all together. You can put Mysterio in at some point, but how does the character relate to everything else? Does Spider-Man go "Let's see, Tuesdays are Kraven fighting days, and Electro is a Thursday, so I'll just squeeze in Mysterio here on Wednesday?"

No, that'd be pretty silly, so you have to ask, how does something like a Mysterio plotline effect a Harry Osborn plotline, or a JJJ plotline? And you intercut the plotlines so it's all one movie instead of three mini-movies playing at the same time.

But in a classic six-film franchise, these connections begin to mutate the standard storyline, so that by the 6th movie, you got characters in complete different places than they originally were. It makes you ponder if Spider-Man should even be a multi-movie franchise.

WITH THAT SAID:

MOVIE ONE:

The first third of the movie opens with the classic Spider-Man origin. Peter is a very geeky kid in his senior year of high school, with a sort-of crush on Liz Allen and having to deal class bully Flash Thompson. Peter lives happily with his Aunt May and Uncle Ben, though financially they're just making ends meat. Aunt May is mostly concerned for his health, where as Ben tries to fuel Peter's ambitions in science, as well as tell Peter moral-rising stories about Peter's deceased parents.

Peter attends a science exhibition dealing with, among other things, radiation. One of the lab critters, a radioactive spider, escapes and bites Peter in the hand. Dr. Otto Octavius is among the presenters, though in no way is related to the spider or Peter Parker's storyline at this point.

Soon, Peter accidentally stumbles on a number of powers (none of which are organic webshooters). Peter decides to put these things to the test, making a super cheap makeshift costume and jumping into a ring with a professional wrestler. Peter beats him easily, and now with a super huge ego boost, decides to change his career path from science to entertainment.

Making a better-looking costume and some web shooters (it helps that the wrestling organization pays in cash), Peter, as the Amazing Spider-Man, begins doing stunts on television. He's a quick hit, perticularly with Flash Thompson. Thinking of himself nothing more than a performer, he fails to stop a thief from escaping the TV station, telling the security officer that it isn't his job. On his way back home, he discovers that the house was broken into and his Uncle Ben had been killed.

Furious, Spider-Man springs into action, finding the murderer surrounded in a warehouse. Spider-Man slips in and attacks the murderer, only to discover the killer is the same thief he had let escape earlier. Now full of guilt, Spider-Man webs the thief to a lamp post and returns home.

Peter graduates high school and manages to get into Empire State University thanks to science scholorships. Meanwhile, we learn that young John Jameson is returning from a long space flight. Peter Parker, disillusioned with entertainment and not yet a crime fighter, has returned to his goals in the fields of science, and he attends the re-entry. However, something goes wrong with the shuttle and it begins to fly out of control. Peter, realizing he's the only one who can do anything, puts on his suit, "kidnaps" a jet pilot to fly him close to the shuttle, swings onto the shuttle and quick-fixes the broken part, allowing to the shuttle to land safely.

Investigation begins on what happens. Among the crowd is Capt. George Stacy, who leads the investigation, and J.J Johnson, John Jameson's father and head of the Daily Bugle newspaper. J.J and Capt. Stacy are old friends (they both regular the country club), and together they figure out that the mysterious man must have been the Amazing Spider-Man from TV. Capt. Stacy wants to figure out who the Amazing Spider-Man is, but despite John's disapproval, J.J. immediatly dubs Spider-Man a menace in the paper. As J.J. is entering his office, he finds an envelope slipped under the seal of his window. It's a list of heists planned for the next couple of weeks, signed by The Vulture.

Peter Parker begins his college classes. There, he meets Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn. Gwen is a strong woman, and recognizes Peter's intellect, perticularly after being hit on by Flash Thompson. Peter also takes a liking to Harry, who has a similar feeble look but with a bit of an attitude. Both in need of room mates, the two get an apartment on campus, most of the money coming from Harry's side.

Not soon after do we meet Norman Osborn, head of Oscorp. It's clear that Norman, well not exactly evil, isn't a very pleasant person. Overly polite to Peter, giving backhanded comments on how someone as smart as Peter can finally put Harry, who Norman sees a slacker, in his place. Harry is continuesly upset by this because he isn't "making the standards of the Osborn name". We get subtle hints that Harry is a pill popper.

Meanwhile, in a lab not too far away, Dr. Otto Octavius works on various experiments with radioactive material (funded by Oscorp, but hardly a central project like in SM2). He manipulates the materials with four mechanical arms attached to a metal girdle around his waist. He controls the basic arm functions with his mind thanks to the arms' attachments to his spine, and the fine detail work is handled by a built-in computer. Otto is egotistical for reaching near-celebrity status in the science community, and his attitude ultimatly leads him to making a mixture mistake, creating a huge explosion. Otto is rushed to the hospital, the mech-arms grafted onto his body. The doctors fear brain damage. Otto slips into a coma.

Meanwhile, the mysterious Vulture is getting away with every crime on his list! Museum guards just don't expect an attack from above. Not to mention none of the photographers at the Daily Bugle can get a good shot of the guy. Peter Parker walks into the Daily Bugle office, looking for work. Two things happen. First, he meets Betty Brant, J.J.'s secretary, who is slightly depressed after a recent breakup. Peter offers some humor while waiting for his meeting with J.J., which lightens up her day. Second, Peter tries to get a job as a photographer, but can't get an offical position. Not giving up, Peter decides to freelance, finds out where Vulture is going to strike next, and prepares.

The Vulture pulls off a jewel heist just as he planned, but before he can get away, he has an unexpected visitor: Spider-Man. The two duel it out in a high-speed air battle, with Spider-Man taking a few quick breathers to take some pictures (I imagine one funny scene where the Vulture flies chest to the sky, Spider-Man landing on the Vulture's stomach, saying "cheese," taking a picture of the Vulture's face, and then punching him in the face). It's a tough battle, but ultimatly, Spider-Man is the victor. Vulture is handed over to the police (which includes, of course, Capt. Stacy).

Peter returns to the Daily Bugle with his pictures, getting a decent price for them. However, Peter learns that some of them are used for the J.J.'s continuing smear campaign against Spider-Man. Betty is impressed by Peter, and Peter manages to convince Betty to go out on a date with him.

At the college, Gwen learns about the date and shows a tad bit of disappointment, but isn't heart broken. Peter, Gwen and Harry do a little college mucking around and have some fun. Capt. Stacy shows up to check on his daughter, and offically meets Peter for the first time. Capt. Stacy is curious about Peter and how he got such good photographs.

Peter and Gwen go on their date. The two learn they aren't exactly a star couple, when Gwen still thinking about "this Ned guy in Paris".

Otto wakes up from his coma. Now slightly insane, He begins to think of himself at all-powerful, and quickly holds the hospital hostage, turning it into a mock lab. Peter walks Betty back to the Daily Bugle office (where she forgot something or something), where they find J.J. just getting off the phone. J.J. tells of Doc Ock taking over the hospital, and sends Peter to take pictures.

Peter dons his Spider-Man suits and dives head first into trouble. He thinks of Doc Ock as nothing but a fat guy with big toys, but soon has his butt handed to him (including the ever-popular slap in the face). Doc Ock's ego only swells with his victory over Spider-Man, but his hostages escape during the battle, and Doc Ock decides to leave to pursue his various life goals.

Begin the final act. Peter isn't doing to good. A bad first date, news that Aunt May is doing horribly in ways of money, and now the loss to Doc Ock. With Harry's dark personality starting to get to him, Peter turns to the only person around, Gwen. The two of them start to get closer, and Gwen delivers the Oscar-winning speech(tm) that starts to motivate Peter again.

Meanwhile, Doc Ock has been doing a little home invasion, stealing from various scientists and labs, planning to use science to become the world's most powerful man. Capt. Stacy manages to work out the places Doc Ock is most likely to hit, and the police lay an ambush on him in a residental area, but Doc Ock quickly climbs to the roofs and out of harm's way.

Peter Parkers learns about this, and with Gwen's words and the promise he made for Uncle Ben in mind, Spider-Man swings into action against this seemingly impossible foe.

The roof top battle begins. Doc Ock is surprised at first that Spider-Man is still alive, but quickly regains footing. The two fight, Doc Ock super confident that he does things like tie his shoe in the middle of battle. Then it happens. A section of the roof dislodges. Capt. Stacy rushes in to save a kid from getting crushed, and gets crushed himself. Spider-Man, now fighting with everything he's got, manages to tie two of Doc Ock's metal arms together with a beam, giving him enough time to slip past the other two arms and finally lay a single punch to Doc Ock's face, knocking the doctor out. Quickly tying him up with web, Spider-Man lowers Doc Ock to the waiting police.

Spider-Man approaches the dying Capt. Stacy, who reveals that he knew it was Peter behind the mask. The Capt. passes away just as Gwen arrives to the scene. Gwen begins to accuse Spider-Man for her father's death. Spider-Man flees the scene.

We go to Capt. Stacy's funeral, then to the Daily Bugle office, where J.J. types up a headline "Spider-Man: Murderer." At an airport, Gwen gets ready to leave for Europe to try and settle with herself. Peter and Harry send her off.

Peter sits on a roof top, pondering about the responsibilities that have come crashing down on him. Police sirens are heard in the distance, and despite now being a wanted man, Spider-Man swings into action.

The final scene is of Doc Ock getting strapped into a special cell in a high security prison, his arms locked into place. We see Adrian Toomes, the former Vulture, peering from his own cell. One of the prisoners walks to Doc Ock's cell door.

"Hey, freak," says the con. "You may have been some fancy-pants who gave the cops the run around out there, but in here, I'm in charge."

Doc Ock looks up and smiles.

"Oh, really?"

Movie 2 outline (if you call these outlines. More like short stories) tomorrow.

Excellent! You know your Spidey, Greg_Mcduck, and how to respect the source material.

Personally, I think it's a little crowded for the average viewer, but I know I could enjoy it just fine.

The one thing I have a real problem is would be killing off Captain Stacy that early on. I don't feel there's enough time for him to really get to know Peter and figure out his secret, and I don't feel that Peter and the audience would have gotten attached enough. In my own Spider-Man series (which plays out very closely to how yours does in the first movie, with the biggest exception being John Jameson's shuttle re-entry and everything having to do with Gwen and George Stacy and Norman and Harry Osborn), the entire first movie takes place during Peter's senior year of high school, then introduces Gwen, George, Norman and Harry in college in Movie 2, then brings back Doc Ock in Movie 3, where he kills off George Stacy, then the Green Goblin returns in Movie 4 to kill Gwen. While there are some problems to work out in my own story structure, I felt giving Captain Stacy two movies to get situated before dying would be a good amount of time.

Overall, that's a fantastic set-up. I know most people couldn't even stand the thought of that much stuff in just one movie, but I say, if the movie is good enough, forgo all beverages before and during viewing!

A hearty "Welcome to the Haven" to you, Greg.

Or Doc Ock could kidnap Betty Brant for the final battle, I totally forgot about that.

Yeah, that's what I had in my movie treatment, which would lead to a comics-faithful breakupt (excluding Ned Leeds' presence), since she would leave him because he refused to give up the dangerous life of a photographer who chases metahuman vigilantes and criminals for action photos, and she's had enough peril in her life and can't take anymore.


By the way, your write-ups in the Battle of the Spider-Men! thread are brilliant.

 

[DACrowe]

I suppose an interesting thread. I myself enjoy Raimi's films immensely and think he has made an overall quite ogod adaptation to the screen, however they are not without their flaws as films (certain visual gags sound....distracting, for example like GG saying "Oh" before getting impaled or Aunt May catching herself on an Angel statue with her umbrella) and in story (how many ****ing times is MJ gonna' get kidnapped?) but overall I enjoy them.

As for faithfulness, well that is a very subjective subject now ain't it? I myself would have done it differently and probably more faithful to the overall comic book but I think some changes I would not have made benefitted Raimi's movies greatly, while others felt like a bit of a lazy decision on David Koepp's part (making MJ more homely and modest).

But for discussion's sake my general outline for the franchise would've been a deeply more expanded version of what we got in many respects:

Spider-Man 1:
Pete is 18 in high school gets the power and the origin would've played a lot to how it did in the film (I love it being a hijacking instead of a burglary, makes more sense, but I admit I probably wouldn't have thought of that). He gets his powers on a field trip to Columbia from a radioactive spider. Yadda, yadda. However, there are two women he is attracted to. One being Gwen Stacy, the reluctant girlfriend of high school jock and bully Flash Thompson, and the girl next door that Aunt May sets Pete up with halfway through the origin, MJ (whose roll is far more over the top and senual and fun. She kinda' convinces Pete to embrace his more selfish sides helping lead to his confidence and anger of letting the thieve go).

I also would like to say organic webbing....I think it works better for the movies, not because it was in the movies but selling that an 18 year-old made them with no money is....well I just think organic webbing would save time and logic for a film. Then again I am being biased as at the same time I would like the costume (though I am not a director or costume designer so my say would be nigh) to look cool. Raised webbing or not I don't want it to be done with a magic marker. I know he reality he would but it just would be so cheesy if for 4 out of 5 films (or in the real franchise, 2 out of 3) for him to be wearing something that looks like would be in the bargain bin of costumes at Target.

The villain would be Doc Ock whose main goal would be the same but it is his ambition and cruelty that makes him wish to do it. He is ultimately a monster who wants to be recognized. Molian is pitch perfect but he is far less likeable and at the end he is tricked into helping save the city when he goes after to save his work from being destroyed. Despite MJ and Peter getting along she is flirting with Pete's only real friend Harry too and at the end he begins his courtship of Gwen Stacy. He is starting to date her, while still being on again/off again with the flirtatous (thoug she should never seem like a ***** or a ****, just a fun-loving girl) MJ.

All the while Harry's father Norman is in the background abusing Harry and obsessed with his work. He would also have been Otto's employer and drove Otto to such desperate circumstnaces that led to his accident.

Spider-Man 2: This would be Peter finally making things work and be really half a love story between him and Gwen as he finally chooses Gwen over MJ. MJ becames flaky and mean to Peter for this and dates Harry to get to Peter. At the same time, we have Norman do his experiment and gets the power he needs (again very much like in the first movie) but goes insane.

The Goblin costume for the record would be prosthetics instead of robo-mask though.

At first I would like a mirror conversation but as the story progresses the two personalities would merge. And by the third act he is no longer split but one twisted mother****er. He does offer Spider-Man a choice to join him but when it is turned down he merely figures out who Spidey is and is hurt (as he shows admiration for Peter while abusing Harry mentally) and wants revenge. He does put Aunt May in the hospital but downright injures her.

At the end the GG reveals his identity while at a formal birthday party for Harry (one that starts going bad when MJ breaks up with Harry and gets his anguish and she also gets Peter's disrespect) he subtely reveals he knows who Spidey is. The two end up duking it out before Norman can reveal it to to everyone at the Osborn Mansion and Peter is dragged along in the famous aSM #39 shot. It ends with Peter escaping and Norman says he has followed the wooman Pete loves for sometime and it is now he is going to finish what he started.

Peter runs to Aunt May in the hospital thinking he means her but Goblin doesn't show. A phone call comes for Peter and it is the line in the first movie followed by Gwen screaming (at this point Pete is all but engaged to Gwen). Peter goes to the Brooklyn Bridge and aSM #121 plays out and I rather like the brutal climax used in SM1 but much darker after Gwen's death. At the end MJ comforts Pete despite his anger and outbursts ala #122 and she takes him to Gwen's grave after having the bigger funeral for Harry's father, Norman. MJ is there for Pete (no love yet though) but he still walks away alone in a more negative ending.

Spider-Man 3:
I'm going to save time and just say that this is the Spider-Man: No More storyline (and yes more like in the movie) as he and MJ get close but because of Gwen and Spidey he pushes her away. All the while his professor has turned into a monster. Pete doesn't realize it until as Parker he finds out from Martha and Billy Conners what is going on (even after sparring with the Lizard before quitting a few times). This way his origin is done in flashback though we see Doc Conners in the first act of the movie. And he will be the first sympathetic villain really. Octavious is an obsessed fanatic if you will and Osborn was an ******* before donning the costume. Conners is truly sad as he was once a healer until Vietnam took his arm before he could begin his career and he had become cynical of man and Lizard is his dark side and view of humanity formed.

He realizes that Conners (after attacking his own family and scarring Billy to get a blood sample) is trying to cure himself but will kill himself instead. In the first he had to save the city from Ock, in the second his friends from GG and in the third though he is having to save a villain from himself. Between this and the Aunt May subplot he can't pursue the relationship he has started with a deeper and now more developed MJ. She keeps pushing him though because after the first act there is love even with Gwen gone, between them.

Spidey inevitably goes to the sewers to face the Lizard's machines and savagry. Que what I think shoud be the equivalent of ASM #367. Spider-Man tries to reason with Lizard to save him and instead Lizard buries him under a trainstation. He has to lift it (a la ASM #33) and dislocates his arm doing it. He makes a web-sling for himself in his last ditch ever to save Liz from going into the machine....but he FAILS. Conners has ruined his family though and maybe should die at the end anyway (a stray from the comics) but showing the burden of pursuing your interests and having love can do. Seeing the Conners family ruined, destroys Pete. At the end Pete breaks up whatever was starting with MJ and this time she is the one left in tears.

Spider-Man 4:

Harry Osborn goes mad and hires Sandman to kill Peter Parker. Sandman and Spidey do battle and so on. We also have Pete and MJ's relationship going sour as she moves on to get married. She ends up confronting him about their relationship but he won't make a move. Meanwhile, Sandman helps Harry unmask Peter and after knowing the truth he finds his father's lair the same way. Sandman seems like a careless thug in this one who escapes as we hurddle into the third act. Harry meanwhile goes insane and takes the formula. SM2's story with MJ finding out plays similar but much darker as it is brother vs. brother, MJ is engaged and Peter tries to talk her out of it but can't offer a good enough alternative. Harry then leaves an exploding Spider-Man in MJ's bed freaking her out and Peter finds Harry (after sparring with Harry and barely surviving at the beginning of the third act) helping Aunt May with her laundry. At the end Harry kidnaps MJ and will kill her to punish them for betraying him as friends. However in a fight in the burning Osborn Mansion (the past burns down) MJ is going to be crushed and Peter breaks his "momentous climax" which Harry has engineered to soothe the Norman spirit in his head (he acts more as if this is a movie than himself). Harry comes to his senses and sees that Peter can't hold it alone and his only friends will be crushed. Harry dies a hero saving MJ and Peter holding up a collapsing building for them to get out from under it and letting himself get buried in the rubble. The last few scenes should play similar to how they did in SM2, all though I'm not too keen about MJ leaving loverboy standing up at the alter, however JJ's line in that would be perfect.

Spider-Man 5:

Peter and MJ get engaged. Relationship problems abound. Pete gets symbiote. He is fighting Sandman still who got away from the last film. Sandman is revealed to hate his powers as they have given him cancer (again a stray) and he just wants the pain to end and he becomes a greier character in this movie. As symbiote Spidey he really can tear into Sandman but goes too far and the symbiote kills Sandman without Pete's approval. This is around the time Peter is a complete ******* to MJ and Spidey is cruel and the Bugle claims it was right all along. He gets rid of it and get Venom like his origin story but more stalking. He captures Peter Parker when his senses aren't going off and basically scares Parker ****less. Instead of standing his ground Peter runs. Venom catches him and says he would never rip Peter apart, he'll do that to MJ. He then beats a frantic Spidey to MJ and as Brock shares a cab and a tense scene of slowly ****ing with her head and scaring her before the symbikote comes out and Venom grabs her and jumps off before Spidey gets there. He just scares her to the point of near death and tells her to give Spidey a message to meet him at an old abandoned beach mill.

MJ tells Pete in horror trying to convince him to let the police handle it but Pete feels responsible for Venom and sees himself in the monster and has to take responsibility (something he hasn't done all film) for his messes and reconnects with MJ as he goes off to his "death." Big dramatic battle. Venom dies. Yeah I said it, just to close the door and a void Carnage.

Pete stands in front of Uncle Ben's grave at the end next to May's now and comments how he has so many friends buried her over the years (and enemies), he could find his place around her in the dark. And he laments his life but shows resilence and hope for the future because their lessons have made him into a good man and he will always have great power and great responsibility. He walks away but not alone this time but to MJ and then we cut as his monologue continues to his marriag eof MJ and finally....happiness.

As I said it is just really a more expanded (Gwen, Lizard, etc) version though.

As for cast I would probably make some changes but cast very similar to the real movies:

Spider-Man: Tobey Maguire

Mary Jane Watson: I dunno....this is a hard one. I don't care about hair color, dying always works but I am blanking on younger American actresses who I think have the chops to do it. Perhaps Reese Witherspoon as she was not famous back in 2001 and if they contracted her then....

Gwen Stacy: Only two filmns but she would be the primary love interest in them and I think Kirsten Dunst (who looks much better as a blonde by the way) would be just fine as her.

Green Goblin/Norman Osborn: Willem Dafoe

Doc Ock: Alfred Molina

Harry Osborn/The Green Goblin: James Franco

Dr. Conners: William H. Macy (he would be amazing and Lizard could be a CGI creation from acting like Davy Jones or Gollum or King Kong)

Sandman: Thomas Hayden Church still works fine for me.

Venom: I dunno....I think Topher Grace will be great for Sam Raimi's vision in SM3, but in all honesty I just don't think I'd cast him if I could choose. Nor would I go for the stupid cliche of getting a wrestler to play the part. Someone of average build who was over 6 feet could do it. I like the idea of Heath Ledger (even before he was the Joker), but I dunno.

Just my little what if. But as I said, though I would've done some things differently (mostly fewer cheese moments and more one liners, sassier MJ, etc.) I really am quite happy with what Raimi ihas done though.