Stan Lee shouldn't get credit for the creation of the Silver Surfer!

[Malus]

Not really John. In Wizard's current issue #184, pg. #93, Stan had this to say in regards to Jack Kirby:

"It was always so easy to write a Jack Kirby story! He was the greatest visual storyteller ever. I was able to put just a few words on a piece of paper, and Jack would go draw what i wrote, and a million other things i never even thought of. That's what made it so easy. By the time it came back to me for dialogue and captions, it was almost a brand new story. He was the greatest guy to work with because of that."


'nuff said?

I think so.

In a related matter, though...
I would like to see the Kirby family receive some monetary tribute for the King's role in creating the industry of Marvel. Same for Steve Ditko (he's received nothing for Spider-man) and any other creator whose character has become a cash cow.

Marvel isn't legally obligated, but neither was DC when they finally started giving Seigel & Schuster something for Superman in 1978.
And that happened only because Neal Adams and a few others saw a great injustice (that Superman had been making DC millions for decades, yet his now elderly creators were living in near -poverty) and did something about it. The papers picked up on the story, and DC (and Warner Brothers) didn't need the bad press. So soon Seigel & Shuster were receiving a modest stipend for their creation.
Same thing needs to happen for Jack Kirby's children.

(Stan Lee brought a suit against Marvel over similar issues a few years ago; the details of the settlement were undisclosed but it's probably safe to say Stan's now taken care of in this department.)

Somebody should launch a campaign (through the internet and all available media) to pressure Marvel into doing the right thing for all the Jack Kirbys and Steve Ditkos -or their families, as the case may be.

Anybody feel like doing that?
I'll be glad to take credit later.

Okay, co-credit.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I think so.

In a related matter, though...
I would like to see the Kirby family receive some monetary tribute for the King's role in creating the industry of Marvel. Same for Steve Ditko (he's received nothing for Spider-man) and any other creator whose character has become a cash cow.

Marvel isn't legally obligated, but neither was DC when they finally started giving Seigel & Schuster something for Superman in 1978.
And that happened only because Neal Adams and a few others saw a great injustice (that Superman had been making DC millions for decades, yet his now elderly creators were living in near -poverty) and did something about it. The papers picked up on the story, and DC (and Warner Brothers) didn't need the bad press. So soon Seigel & Shuster were receiving a modest stipend for their creation.
Same thing needs to happen for Jack Kirby's children.

(Stan Lee brought a suit against Marvel over similar issues a few years ago; the details of the settlement were undisclosed but it's probably safe to say Stan's now taken care of in this department.)

Somebody should launch a campaign (through the internet and all available media) to pressure Marvel into doing the right thing for all the Jack Kirbys and Steve Ditkos -or their families, as the case may be.

Anybody feel like doing that?
I'll be glad to take credit later.

Okay, co-credit.

I've read that Stan has seen to it that Jack's widow receives a pension from Marvel.

I have no idea what the amount is, but apparently his family is satisfied, as his daughter has since begun publishing Jack Kirby's Galactic Bounty Hunters under the Marvel banner.

 

[Malus]

I've read that Stan has seen to it that Jack's widow receives a pension from Marvel.

I have no idea what the amount is, but apparently his family is satisfied, as his daughter has since begun publishing Jack Kirby's Galactic Bounty Hunters under the Marvel banner.

That's great! Go, Stan.
For once I'm glad to be out of the loop on something.

 

[Syncos]

All I can really say about any of this, is that without the creative genius of both Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, we would not have the character we all know and love in the Silver Surfer. Both men's talent can be attributed to the success of the character. That is all that matters.

All this fanboy bickering? Yah, pointless.

 

[Agent 194]

I know the story about how Jack just put the Surfer in there. I've read all the accounts. However there's never been a thing to come out that would dissuade me from thinking Stan doesn't deserve partial credit.

I think it's too easy in this day and age to demonize personalities and generalize issues while pursuing conspiratorial slants on the story.

Whatever his faults, Stan was the figure head with bravado and charisma to bring spotlight on the other talents at Marvel.

Stan was the PT Barnum of comics.

 

[50yroldfffan]

thanks cap thats good to read, I don't read much wizard so thanks for filling in the blanks. Thats what I hoped Stan would say maybe I'll mellow out on my Stan doesn't deserve credit stance.
Peace!

Not really John. In Wizard's current issue #184, pg. #93, Stan had this to say in regards to Jack Kirby:

"It was always so easy to write a Jack Kirby story! He was the greatest visual storyteller ever. I was able to put just a few words on a piece of paper, and Jack would go draw what i wrote, and a million other things i never even thought of. That's what made it so easy. By the time it came back to me for dialogue and captions, it was almost a brand new story. He was the greatest guy to work with because of that."


'nuff said?

 

[highguard]

I've read that Stan has seen to it that Jack's widow receives a pension from Marvel.

I have no idea what the amount is, but apparently his family is satisfied, as his daughter has since begun publishing Jack Kirby's Galactic Bounty Hunters under the Marvel banner.

That is really great news

 

[Carp Man]

I've read that Stan has seen to it that Jack's widow receives a pension from Marvel.

I have no idea what the amount is, but apparently his family is satisfied, as his daughter has since begun publishing Jack Kirby's Galactic Bounty Hunters under the Marvel banner.

That is indeed great news. And botton line is, lets face it, they BOTH had something to do with all the Marvel charactors. Wheather it was 50, 50, 60, 40, 70, 30, whatever. We all know we owe both of them a big thanks, because without the FF, we could not sit here and enjoy the good fortune that all us fans are enjoying now. t: FF has finally arrived. t:

 

[DavidTyler]

............ Jack never created on his own anything rivalling his work with Lee.

One word:

















DARKSIED

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

One word:

DARKSIED

Six words and a smiley:

Dragon doesn't know his comics history.

 

[Dragon]

Six words and a smiley:

Dragon doesn't know his comics history.

Actually you clearly don't know yours. And you're obsessed with this issue. As has been posted here, Kirby's assistant, who knew both men knew that theirs was a collaboration, not just Kirby feeding Lee.

As for Darkseid, he came into popularity due to factors other than Kirby's Fourth World, such as inclusion in events like Super Powers (Which included a cartoon), Legends and the Superman Animated series. And BTW- he's certainly not as popular as his Marvel creations, like Dr. Doom.

 

[DavidTyler]

Actually you clearly don't know yours. And you're obsessed with this issue. As has been posted here, Kirby's assistant, who knew both men knew that theirs was a collaboration, not just Kirby feeding Lee.

As for Darkseid, he came into popularity due to factors other than Kirby's Fourth World, such as inclusion in events like Super Powers (Which included a cartoon), Legends and the Superman Animated series. And BTW- he's certainly not as popular as his Marvel creations, like Dr. Doom.

There was never a mention of how the character of Darksied came into popularity... only the He was the very successful creation of Jack Kirby alone.

As to his popularity in juxtaposition with other popular characters Kirby was involved in creating. It's all a matter of opinion. I personally like Dr. Doom AND Darksied. Both very interesting and well thought out characters.

 

[Dragon]

There was never a mention of how the character of Darksied came into popularity... only the He was the very successful creation of Jack Kirby alone.

It's clear when Darkseid became popular. In the mid-80's long after his creation by Kirby.

As to his popularity in juxtaposition with other popular characters Kirby was involved in creating. It's all a matter of opinion. I personally like Dr. Doom AND Darksied. Both very interesting and well thought out characters.

And so do I. I'm certainly not saying Kirby doesn't deserve his place in comic history. It's obsessed people like Wilhelm for whom it will never be enough. Until Jack Kirby is declared Center of the Universe, and Stan Lee is dangling over a fire pit, the likes of Wilhelm will never be happy.

 

[DavidTyler]

It's clear when Darkseid became popular. In the mid-80's long after his creation by Kirby.




And so do I. I'm certainly not saying Kirby doesn't deserve his place in comic history. It's obsessed people like Wilhelm for whom it will never be enough. Until Jack Kirby is declared Center of the Universe, and Stan Lee is dangling over a fire pit, the likes of Wilhelm will never be happy.

Darkseid made his first appearance in 1970 as part of Kirby's Fourth World saga. He was the breakout character almost immediately even though it was supposed to have been Orion. He was already a popular character in comics when he made his first television appearance in a 1984 episode of Superfriends.

For many posters here, their first exposure to many of these characters was in the 1980's and that would be why they wouldn't be aware of what preceded it in the comics.

Dr. Doom, however, is no more a household word than Darkseid. ... And I don't say that to downgrade the popularity of Dr. Doom. I say that because an argument has been put forth that nothing Kirby created solo is as popular as anything he colaborated on.

Oh, I don't have any issues with Stan getting some of the credit for Silver Surfer. As he said in an interview: he saw the majesty in the image Jack had created and knew that he couldn't just write any kind of dialogue for the Surfer.

 

[Joe Rockhead]

While I can agree that Stan Lee does not deserve to be labelled the sole creator of the Silver Surfer, he most certainly deserves to be credited as a partner with Jack Kirby in his creation... no doubt about it.

Stan was instrumental in not only providing the heart of the Marvel Universe - that of ordinary men/women with ordinary problems suddenly thrust into the world of super heroics - he was the driving force of the marketing that got these characters out to the public eye.

Had Stan not been around for the formative years of the Marvel Universe... does anyone honestly think that those characters would still be viable in the marketplace today? Most of the Marvel characters would probably have been bought up by DC and left to languish in the shadows of Superman and Batman.

 

[Dragon]

Darkseid made his first appearance in 1970 as part of Kirby's Fourth World saga. He was the breakout character almost immediately even though it was supposed to have been Orion. He was already a popular character in comics when he made his first television appearance in a 1984 episode of Superfriends.

For many posters here, their first exposure to many of these characters was in the 1980's and that would be why they wouldn't be aware of what preceded it in the comics.

He was popular to Kirby fans, but that's about all. Fourth World only lasted till 1973. Not even as long as Luke Cage, Powerman. He was revived later for Super Powers (Which includes that incarnation of Super Friends) and in the same year DC began reprinting New Gods. So there was a resurgnece of interest in Darkseid. Then in 1986 Jhn Byrne did the mini-series that ran through DC's main titles "Legends" which showccased Darkseid and made him a major player in the DC universe. But prior to all of this Darkseid wasn't that widely known, even maong comics fans.

Dr. Doom, however, is no more a household word than Darkseid. ... And I don't say that to downgrade the popularity of Dr. Doom. I say that because an argument has been put forth that nothing Kirby created solo is as popular as anything he colaborated on.

Dr. Doom is FAR more a household name than Darkseid. Darth Vader was based on Dr. Doom. He's probably the best known Marvel Villain (Or at least tied with Magneto and now because of the movies, Green Goblin)

Oh, I don't have any issues with Stan getting some of the credit for Silver Surfer. As he said in an interview: he saw the majesty in the image Jack had created and knew that he couldn't just write any kind of dialogue for the Surfer.

Exactly. Stan knew a hit when he saw it, and he endeavored to make the Surfer a major character. But Kirby's groupies will tell you that Stan didn't even see the potential there either.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I'll tell you what i would personally like to see;

I'd like to see this upcoming movie DEDICATED to Stan Lee & Jack Kirby.

That would totally make my day.

 

[Malus]

I'll tell you what i would personally like to see;

I'd like to see this upcoming movie DEDICATED to Stan Lee & Jack Kirby.

That would totally make my day.

YES.
Are you listening, Fox?

 

[Iron Maiden]

I gotta go check my DVD at home but weren't they both in the screen credits in the first movie??

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I gotta go check my DVD at home but weren't they both in the screen credits in the first movie??

In the end, yes, they were credited as creators, iirc.

I'd like to see the next one dedicated to them. More than just a few simple words.

 

[Nokio]

I seem to remember Stan crediting Jack with the concept of SS....think it was in one of his bios...

Black Panther as well.

I second that, in fact i've seen him on TV where he mentioned Kirby.

 

[Nokio]

Stan Lee kids like a 10 percent profit from the films now being made based on the characters. Although I'm not to sure if he should get paid for the surfer.

 

[DavidTyler]

He was popular to Kirby fans, but that's about all. Fourth World only lasted till 1973. Not even as long as Luke Cage, Powerman. He was revived later for Super Powers (Which includes that incarnation of Super Friends) and in the same year DC began reprinting New Gods. So there was a resurgnece of interest in Darkseid. Then in 1986 Jhn Byrne did the mini-series that ran through DC's main titles "Legends" which showccased Darkseid and made him a major player in the DC universe. But prior to all of this Darkseid wasn't that widely known, even maong comics fans.

I'm sorry but I dissagree with you about that last line. Darkseid was indeed fairly well known to comics fans as was the Fourth World saga. Kirby had just started back w/DC and people were curious. Especially when he decided to tackle the mythology he had been so successful at Marvel with - Thor and the Gods of Asgard - and give them a fresh start in a science fiction vein.

Dr. Doom is FAR more a household name than Darkseid. Darth Vader was based on Dr. Doom. He's probably the best known Marvel Villain (Or at least tied with Magneto and now because of the movies, Green Goblin)

No, again I have to disagree. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Captain America, Wonder Woman, the Joker ... those are all household names. Dr. Doom and Darkseid are only household names in houses like mine. That's changing with all the new movies. Being the inspiration for Darth Vader only proves that he was a household name in the Lucas home. The general audience neither knew nor cared.

Exactly. Stan knew a hit when he saw it, and he endeavored to make the Surfer a major character. But Kirby's groupies will tell you that Stan didn't even see the potential there either.

Yes, I think it's sad that those fans refuse to acknowledge Stan's input. With lesser dialogue, SS would have just been a throw-away character no matter how cool he looked.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Oh my God.
I was as clueless as some of you as well until I started reading The Jack Kirby Collector.
It's so frustrating to read such erroneous opinions presented with such self-assuredness.

I'm not even talking about Kirby interviews.
I'm talking about STAN LEE interviews from the 70's.
My disgust with him is based on his own words and actions.
I have the transcript where he says that he thought Jack had lost his freaking mind when he presented the character THAT HE CREATED OUT OF NOTHINGNESS...and how he totally despised the idea of the surfboard, and including the surfboard in the name.

And in an earlier post, someone said something about how Stan came around and saw that you couldn't just write ordinary dialogue for him, so, it was some kind of "contribution".

Anyone with half a brain would see that. George Lucas could invent Darth Vader, show me sketches of him, and I would not be some kind of mastermind historical figure, if when asked to pop some dialogue in over his head, I gave him a dark, intimidating voice and had him avoid using slang. X 1,000

 

[Carp Man]

Why continue to make an issue of this ? We all know what went on, and to us it all amounts to a hill of beans. To Jacks family it means something, but not us fans. We should be enjoying the ride, rather then wasting our time arguing who created what.