Discovery Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

[Flash525]

Also: the Gray Tal character is both puzzling and uninteresting to me. Not that Adira is all that compelling either. But at least Adira is part of the crew and is occasionally useful on the bridge. But Gray (a ghostly Trill symbiont?) seems to be relegated to touchy/feel-y “love interest” status.

Of all the characters on the show at the moment, those two do nothing to progress the show. I felt, and still do feel that they were added to fill that LGBTQ+ void that we've had in Trek, and if a character needs to be forced into play, that character shouldn't be.

Once Strange New Worlds is released (in the event I like it) I think I will drop Discovery. My dislike for almost all the main characters and story keep on growing. I use "main" loosely for it's mostly Burnham's show + a bit of Book. Saru still cool to me and that's it.

I think a lot of people forget that Discovery was always meant to be Burnham's story; that's the way it was originally pitched. Unlike other Trek shows which have kinda' been more an ensemble driven focus, Discovery was, and somewhat still is the Burnham story with a few side characters.

There were a good few characters in season one that didn't get any development - they were touched on in season two and three, but not vastly. Discovery isn't really an ensemble show, and as much as I'm enjoying the show, Burnham just isn't really an interesting character. Season 2 has been the highlight of this show for me thus far, and that in large has been because of Anson's portrayal as Pike.

Season three (and more importantly, the reason for the burn) was a overwhelming disappointment for me. Were the Borg responsible for ending warp travel? Were the Dominion? Were the Voth? Were those cybernetic aliens in Picard? Was it the Q continuum playing games? Did the Undine (Species 8472) introduce some warp-related virus? Nope. It was just a Kelpian that had a mental breakdown......... I mean, talk about an anticlimax.

As Discovery currently stands, Stammets, Saru and Book are the only characters I'm currently interested in. I'm curious to see where they're going with this new Federation President too - simply because (I hope) we'll get to revisit Cardassia this season and see what it's like there now, but as far as Burnham, Tilly and the LGBTQ crew go. Couldn't care less.

 

[Dark Raven]

Once Strange New Worlds is released (in the event I like it) I think I will drop Discovery.
My dislike for almost all the main characters and story keep on growing. I use "main" loosely for it's mostly Burnham's show + a bit of Book.
Saru still cool to me and that's it.

That's my plan too, although even now it's really testing my patience with such tedious characters.

I think Saru would work better on a different Star Trek show with other better characters to play off. Because everyone else here are so dull then even he can't really shine.

Of all the characters on the show at the moment, those two do nothing to progress the show. I felt, and still do feel that they were added to fill that LGBTQ+ void that we've had in Trek, and if a character needs to be forced into play, that character shouldn't be.

I think a lot of people forget that Discovery was always meant to be Burnham's story; that's the way it was originally pitched. Unlike other Trek shows which have kinda' been more an ensemble driven focus, Discovery was, and somewhat still is the Burnham story with a few side characters.

There were a good few characters in season one that didn't get any development - they were touched on in season two and three, but not vastly. Discovery isn't really an ensemble show, and as much as I'm enjoying the show, Burnham just isn't really an interesting character. Season 2 has been the highlight of this show for me thus far, and that in large has been because of Anson's portrayal as Pike.

Season three (and more importantly, the reason for the burn) was a overwhelming disappointment for me. Were the Borg responsible for ending warp travel? Were the Dominion? Were the Voth? Were those cybernetic aliens in Picard? Was it the Q continuum playing games? Did the Undine (Species 8472) introduce some warp-related virus? Nope. It was just a Kelpian that had a mental breakdown......... I mean, talk about an anticlimax.

As Discovery currently stands, Stammets, Saru and Book are the only characters I'm currently interested in. I'm curious to see where they're going with this new Federation President too - simply because (I hope) we'll get to revisit Cardassia this season and see what it's like there now, but as far as Burnham, Tilly and the LGBTQ crew go. Couldn't care less.

I agree that Adira and Gray are useless and do nothing to advance the story. They are dull as ditch water. They're only on the show and getting screen time because they meet some agenda but they're more like Ruby Rose on Batwoman who are talentless. If they weren't transgender would they even get a role?

At least on Supergirl with Nia Nal she actually could act and was more interesting to watch than not just Adira and Gray but most of the Discovery crew.

Btw as annoying as Iris can be on the Flash, I still would've rather watched her as Burnham instead of Sonnequa Martin Green. Or even Kelly Olsen as Burnham.

 

[RockSP]

I agree that Adira and Gray are useless and do nothing to advance the story. They are dull as ditch water. They're only on the show and getting screen time because they meet some agenda but they're more like Ruby Rose on Batwoman who are talentless. If they weren't transgender would they even get a role?

Adira isn't transgender.

It's one thing to dislike the character, but it's kind of sad and hilarious at the same time to hear Trek fans complaining about agendas. Probably similar to what certain folks were saying when Sulu and Uhura first showed up.

 

[chamber-music]

The show being based around Burnham was always a risk. If you don't like that one central character it can drag down your enjoyment of the show overall. With ensembles you can find more characters to like and identity with.

I can certainly see why people don't enjoy the show much when the Burnham character is written in a particular way.

The Gray character and their relationship isn't overly interesting. I'm sure they have plans for the Gray Tal character. I'm going to wait and see what direction they go with the character before writing the character off. The actor was good in Netflix OA show.

 

[Sithborg]

First of all, Adira Tal/Blu del Barrio uses they/them pronouns. I understand if you don't fully understand the concept of being non binary, but it is the barest of minimums of respect to use the pronouns they prefer. You seem to get it for Nicole Maines, so I don't understand the issue here.

Second of all, this is Star Trek. Look at what you have written, and replace LGBTQ with race, and look long and hard at yourselves in the mirror.

I have no problems with representation when it's done organically. But representation for representation 's sake doesn't sit well in my escapist sci fi adventure entertainment.

Once it again it is Star Trek. And based on this statement, you are against Avery Brooks as Sisko. Just look at some of what he has said for why he took the role. For representation.

 

[RockSP]

Adira is non-binary, which puts her in the LGBTQ+ continuum.
Of course that isn't the problem with her character. The problem is that she's defined by her nonbinary status, and there's nothing else distinctive and interesting about her - which is why folks point her out as being there for representation points.

How is she defined by it? It isn't mentioned it every episode. When we first met the character, they were introduced as "she". Then they let it be known they are non-binary in a later episode and I don't know that it has come up since, other than now the crew refers to that character using "they" instead of "she".

Adria might not be transgender, but (if I'm not mistaken) the actress that plays her identifies as non binary (whatever that's supposed to be in the real world).

Needless to say, both her and Grey; their characters and the people portraying them are on ST DSC to fulfil that LGBTQ+ position, and not because the character needs to be there. If, say entering season 2 or 3 we found out that Detmer or Tilly was portraying an LGBTQ character it wouldn't matter because we've already been introduced to their characters as people, and not as someone that needs to be identified under a label. Adria (and Grey) were introduced under that label.

No they weren't. Adira was introduced as female, she revealed in a subsequent episode she was non-binary. And I'd have to go back and watch but from what I remember when Grey was first introduced, it was simply as Adira's boyfriend. Again, it's perfectly fine to dislike the characters, but there is no need to fabricate things about them to justify that dislike.

Nobody was bothered (rightly so) that Paul and Hugh are gay, because it's part of their character and it wasn't thrust on us from their opening scenes - the show kinda' built up to it, and we accepted because their sexuality or sexual identity just wasn't important - they were two people in a relationship together and their characters as a whole were introduced as people, not as a label. The same way nobody cares that Emily (Detmer) is a lesbian in real life. It's just not important.

Of course some were bothered by it. The real world is not like Trek fiction.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Well....this was an interesting conversation to walk into..

Adira is boring to me and tying them to Stamets/Culber was a boring/uninspired take.

But anyway....even though Burnham is the central character, it doesnt mean that everyone else takes such a major seat in the back. Thats just bad writing but it is more of the norm in todays writing unfortunately. Buffy was the main/title character and her supporting cast got way more development/screen time. ST was meant to tell the story from the 1st officers POV instead of the Captains which was a great idea but one that did not work out and well...Burnham is the Captain now so now that concept is null and void.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Because with Nicole I didn't get the feeling her characters gender was thrust upon us. Plus, the character of Dreamer actually added something to Supergirl. The same cannot be said for Adria and Grey.

What even is this excuse? So because you think that Dreamer added something you will respect them more as a person than Adria? That makes no sense.

 

[Sithborg]

Where did I mention respect?

I accept that Nicole has added something to the show as the character of Dreamer. The two individuals portraying the characters of Adria and Grey add nothing to the show they've been written for.

Thus the reason, not the excuse. It's unfortunate you can't see where I'm coming from here, but I'm not going to get into a prolonged argument about it. I've said my piece. I don't feel the characters belong.

The respect comes from using the proper pronouns. You have no problem using she/her for Maines, but they/them seems to be an issue for you.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Where did I mention respect?

I accept that Nicole has added something to the show as the character of Dreamer. The two individuals portraying the characters of Adria and Grey add nothing to the show they've been written for.

Thus the reason, not the excuse. It's unfortunate you can't see where I'm coming from here, but I'm not going to get into a prolonged argument about it. I've said my piece. I don't feel the characters belong.

The only thing that is unfortunate is your need to misgender someone.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So viewers, I am getting Paramount+ for a month thanks to Black Friday. This show worth a go? I saw a commercial and thought it looked fun. For the record, my favorite Trek is the Kelvin timeline, but I also enjoyed what I saw of the original series and TNG.

 

[Sithborg]

So viewers, I am getting Paramount+ for a month thanks to Black Friday. This show worth a go? I saw a commercial and thought it looked fun. For the record, my favorite Trek is the Kelvin timeline, but I also enjoyed what I saw of the original series and TNG.

You might, give it a try for yourself.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't personally recognise the they/them label.

That's not disrespect, it's simply a lack of knowledge on the subject matter. No amount of education is going to better highlight that to me either, so I would encourage the patronising attitude to close.

This, is bigotry. You can try to dance around it all you want, but that is what this is. The only knowledge you need is someone's pronouns. You know them, and you just admitted you are purposely misgendering. Accidents happen. This is not one. This is transphobia.

 

[Snow Queen]

I don't personally recognise the they/them label.

That's not disrespect, it's simply a lack of knowledge on the subject matter. No amount of education is going to better highlight that to me either, so I would encourage the patronising attitude to close.

That's funny, I don't personally recognize you being a user here.

Adira is non-binary, which puts her in the LGBTQ+ continuum.
Of course that isn't the problem with her character. The problem is that she's defined by her nonbinary status, and there's nothing else distinctive and interesting about her - which is why folks point her out as being there for representation points.

In contrast look at Stamets - at least in season 1 anyway, he is this somewhat stiff, prickly, arrogant genius who invents the shows central plot device and gradually comes to appreciate Tilly's technical expertise. Oh, and it turns out that he's gay, but that's not the main feature of his character, kind of an afterthought.
He's not on the show to be gay, he's there to be a science guy, which is his role on the ship.

I have no problems with representation when it's done organically. But representation for representation 's sake doesn't sit well in my escapist sci fi adventure entertainment.

Do better. Use proper pronouns. This isn't the first issue here. You got off easy then and should have taken that under consideration.

 

[Lily Adler]

A quick reminder:

ATTENTION: REMINDER ON HATE SPEECH

There are other people on this board who are part of the LGBTQ+ community.

 

[InCali]

So viewers, I am getting Paramount+ for a month thanks to Black Friday. This show worth a go? I saw a commercial and thought it looked fun. For the record, my favorite Trek is the Kelvin timeline, but I also enjoyed what I saw of the original series and TNG.

I like it, but I'm a lousy critic. I like just about everything not directed by Michael Bay.

 

[flickchick85]

So viewers, I am getting Paramount+ for a month thanks to Black Friday. This show worth a go? I saw a commercial and thought it looked fun. For the record, my favorite Trek is the Kelvin timeline, but I also enjoyed what I saw of the original series and TNG.

I’d say the latter half of S1 and S2 are worth it. S3 not so much.

 

[Primal Slayer]

So viewers, I am getting Paramount+ for a month thanks to Black Friday. This show worth a go? I saw a commercial and thought it looked fun. For the record, my favorite Trek is the Kelvin timeline, but I also enjoyed what I saw of the original series and TNG.

It's decent. But just dont expect a classic ST show like the other ones. Its 90% Burnham, takes place in the Prime universe but also takes liberties. It looks FANTASTIC and what you'd want from a modern ST show.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's decent. But just dont expect a classic ST show like the other ones. Its 90% Burnham, takes place in the Prime universe but also takes liberties. It looks FANTASTIC and what you'd want from a modern ST show.

Yeah, that's what caught my eye. Every time I see a commercial, I'm like, "this looks surprisingly expensive".

 

[DCnightwing23]

So viewers, I am getting Paramount+ for a month thanks to Black Friday. This show worth a go? I saw a commercial and thought it looked fun. For the record, my favorite Trek is the Kelvin timeline, but I also enjoyed what I saw of the original series and TNG.

An emphatic YES if you enjoy the Kelvin timeline - you get the grand aesthetic of those Kelvin movies while delving into some interesting storylines and perspectives. There isn't much of an ensemble cast here, but if you don't mind that I think you'll get a kick out of it. The visuals alone are what drew me in, personally. I didn't really 'enjoy' the series up until season 3 and now 4. But there are some interesting things happening in the first 2 seasons! Give it a go and tell us what you think

 

[Teelie]

The show has its ups and downs. Not my favorite Trek but hardly the worst either. There is a definite effort to actually impart the concept of IDIC in these characters. This should not be a problem to the ideal of Star Trek.

I do not understand the ironic attitude of hating LTGBQ characters in a franchise that has always strived to be more inclusive (Uhura, Sulu, Chekov were merely a start). I doubt Roddenberry would have a problem having gay, trans, nonbinary and other non traditionally conforming characters (though by all accounts he would have been fine with it and even pushed for it in TNG.)

I know Roddenberry wasn't perfect and network censorship kept the first true gay characters off everything up to a barely-referenced Hawkes in First Contact (TNG could have with Riker and another alien who ended up being rewritten as non-binary, a first there at least). Enterprise dropped the ball and other than at-a-glance references in Abrams-verse there had been no non-straight representation since.

This series is the first to really represent anything besides straight/cisgender/hetero-normative characters in the franchise. Not every attempt succeeds but at least there is an effort to truly expand the universe beyond the traditional templates.

The first season has some great twists in the second half, the second and third seasons were better even if they couldn't quite get their footing and now with the fourth season they are feeling a bit rehashed with "big bad dangerous space anomaly threatens everything, again." But I'll still give them a chance.

 

[Dr.]

I do not understand the ironic attitude of hating LTGBQ characters in a franchise that has always strived to be more inclusive (Uhura, Sulu, Chekov were merely a start). I doubt Roddenberry would have a problem having gay, trans, nonbinary and other non traditionally conforming characters (though by all accounts he would have been fine with it and even pushed for it in TNG.).

Around here, I was one of the few defenders of Batwoman S1 and Ruby Rose’s portrayal of the title character. So were all the naysayers homophobes? Benefit of the doubt, I assumed not. Rather, they were merely offering the conventional sorts of criticism to do with writing, action, performance, deviation from canon, etc. IOW, it’s possible to support LGBTQ+ in general and still conclude that a specific representation fails in other respects. And it seems to me that a similar attitude is being expressed towards DISCO. As I mentioned, I don’t find Blu Del Barrio to be a particularly engaging actor. But to the extent that Adira is a member of the DISCO crew, there’s some point to that character. Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for Gray to become interesting. Now maybe a terrific arc is planned for Gray; but we haven’t seen it yet.

 

[Teelie]

I get that. I wasn't singling anyone out. There are dull characters or ones who just don't work for some viewers (and characters who could be more fleshed out, like 80% of the bridge crew). But there is a notable dislike from some viewers who seem to hone in on the minority characters as ones they don't like.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I get that. I wasn't singling anyone out. There are dull characters or ones who just don't work for some viewers (and characters who could be more fleshed out, like 80% of the bridge crew). But there is a notable dislike from some viewers who seem to hone in on the minority characters as ones they don't like.

I don't believe it to be true, at least on this board.
The main crew are all from a minority or another and all (characters) get equal criticisms from my point of view but I feel one of these minority (character) can't be criticize.
I'm careful about what I say because I'm not a native English speaker, sometimes it can be difficult for me to express my opinion without being taken as a hater so I censor myself or say nothing.

 

[Holy Slapper]

I don't believe it to be true, at least on this board.
The main crew are all from a minority or another and all (characters) get equal criticisms from my point of view but I feel one of these minority (character) can't be criticize.
I'm careful about what I say because I'm not a native English speaker, sometimes it can be difficult for me to express my opinion without being taken as a hater so I censor myself or say nothing.

As a Finn I can somewhat sympathize with this, since the Finnish language doesn't have gender defining pronouns. So all this talk is because of ze English! Kidding...

I have to say I really liked this week's episode. Booker got resolution or relief or whatever that was logical (pun intended) for his species/himself, Adira and Gray somehow got me more invested in them and the main "villain" was a complex one. I have no experience of non-binary characters or actors in works of fiction but I think these two are doing a decent job of opening my eyes to two likeable ones. I think the highlight for me was the admiral's orchestra analogy, it was good description on political leadership.