Suicide Squad: General Discussion and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 35

[NotNickFury]

Yeah, DC doesn't seem to know what passes for quality writing if this is the best they can do.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I guess this is the GCS subforum by default.

Anyway, Ayer and the writer (who's writing this) can make this work. It should be a heist film. Harley, Ivy, and Selina each bring something to the table skills/powers wise. The heist can't work without their specific skills. If Vin Diesel and his racing buddies can do it in FF5 and George Clooney and his gambling buddies can do it in the Ocean's series then a team of super-skilled/powered villainesses should be able to do it too. Have each of them and their contributions shine. Ivy is the con-artist, she can use her pheromones and charms to get what she needs. Selina is the acrobat and 'acquisitions' specialist. Harley is the muscle. Giver her those God damn pet hyenas too. Write a good plot, give the actressess the comics to read and copies of B:TAS to watch (I wish my job consisted of watching cartoons and reading comics for a couple days) to give them an idea of what they should go for characterization wise and we have a decent film. Give us a great villain/antagonist and a couple heart-felt moments between the protagonists and we've got ourselves a good film.

And don't sanitze. Go rated R and don't be scared to show why our villain-protagonists are considered villains in the first place. It's like Scarface. Tony Montana was a piece of **** with one or two redeeming qualities, but despite being a piece of **** we still rooted for him.

 

[Victarion]

Good ideas there, Kal. I will say, I thought Ayer kept the squad appropriately villainous - I didn't expect to see them plotting to kill Flag, for example. More of that, ratcheted up in GCS would be great.

I'd like it if the villain were a metahuman gangbanger or something. That old Bonnie and Clyde movie with Beattie is my favorite "villain" movie fwiw. Might be a good model.

 

[NotNickFury]

So despite its flaws, I suppose we can now call Suicide Squad an Oscar-nominated picture.

As it's for makeup, my hope is that this doesn't mean the production team will stay the course for some of those designs because I could've done without the grunge look at times.

 

[The Joker]

Batman Forever is an Oscar nominated picture, too

 

[Micromind]

So despite its flaws, I suppose we can now call Suicide Squad an Oscar-nominated picture.

As it's for makeup, my hope is that this doesn't mean the production team will stay the course for some of those designs because I could've done without the grunge look at times.

Some people are getting Triggered.

 

[Micromind]

Batman Forever is an Oscar nominated picture, too

I hope it actually wins, so next time a comic book movie wins some Oscar, we can use SS's example.

 

[MbJ]

Good ideas there, Kal. I will say, I thought Ayer kept the squad appropriately villainous - I didn't expect to see them plotting to kill Flag, for example. More of that, ratcheted up in GCS would be great.

That doesn't exactly fit with Catwoman. She's not a violent murderer like the Squad so portraying her as such would be a problem. She'd be the one to reign them in, if anything.

 

[2kt09]

As it's for makeup, my hope is that this doesn't mean the production team will stay the course for some of those designs because I could've done without the grunge look at times.

Which looks in particular?

Credit where its due because the aesthetic theme is both what grounded the characters and set them apart from everything else.
I don't know if hypesters went through how their attire/accessories inform their backstory.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

That doesn't exactly fit with Catwoman. She's not a violent murderer like the Squad so portraying her as such would be a problem. She'd be the one to reign them in, if anything.

Yeah, that I agree with. You've got to honor the source. Selina should be portrayed as a kleptomaniac who is also a master thief. She's the mastermind of the heist itself (not the movie's lead, this is Margot's baby after all). And she's also the acrobat. She can get into and out of places the other two can't.

And Ivy is the con-woman using her wits and charms to play people for fools. In a fight she also has her deadly flora to contend with. But I want them to emphasize how she can enrapture anyone's minds with her pheromones.

And the impetus for the heist is Harley's. She's the leader of this little crew and the muscle. She has her deadly gadgets, gags, and her pet hyenas and the underground connections (people fear her because of her reputation along with Joker's) to pull the job together. Selina and Ivy are loners by nature (no pun).

 

[StuffAndThangs]

I guess this is the GCS subforum by default.

Anyway, Ayer and the writer (who's writing this) can make this work. It should be a heist film. Harley, Ivy, and Selina each bring something to the table skills/powers wise. The heist can't work without their specific skills. If Vin Diesel and his racing buddies can do it in FF5 and George Clooney and his gambling buddies can do it in the Ocean's series then a team of super-skilled/powered villainesses should be able to do it too. Have each of them and their contributions shine. Ivy is the con-artist, she can use her pheromones and charms to get what she needs. Selina is the acrobat and 'acquisitions' specialist. Harley is the muscle. Giver her those God damn pet hyenas too. Write a good plot, give the actressess the comics to read and copies of B:TAS to watch (I wish my job consisted of watching cartoons and reading comics for a couple days) to give them an idea of what they should go for characterization wise and we have a decent film. Give us a great villain/antagonist and a couple heart-felt moments between the protagonists and we've got ourselves a good film.

And don't sanitze. Go rated R and don't be scared to show why our villain-protagonists are considered villains in the first place. It's like Scarface. Tony Montana was a piece of **** with one or two redeeming qualities, but despite being a piece of **** we still rooted for him.

There is nothing redeemable or rootable about Harley Quinn & Poison Ivy THEY ARE THE THREAT Catwoman would at least only care about herself & betray them in a heart beat but the other two ARE THE THREAT & should be treated as such in any movie

 

[NotNickFury]

Which looks in particular?

Credit where its due because the aesthetic theme is both what grounded the characters and set them apart from everything else.
I don't know if hypesters went through how their attire/accessories inform their backstory.

More so the tattoos and the Joker having gold chains. If he's gonna have tattoos, then fine, but it's that 'Damaged' one across his forehead that I always find distracting. And far too on the nose.

 

[2kt09]

More so the tattoos and the Joker having gold chains. If he's gonna have tattoos, then fine, but it's that 'Damaged' one across his forehead that I always find distracting. And far too on the nose.

Fair enough.

 

[Wildcard]

That doesn't exactly fit with Catwoman. She's not a violent murderer like the Squad so portraying her as such would be a problem. She'd be the one to reign them in, if anything.

Basically. Catwoman is the type to only kill if she's provoked (i.e someone close to her being harmed). Otherwise, it's completely out of character.

 

[TheRedWraith]

This movie really is the perfect place to introduce the Birds of Prey, if they don't in this one, then they need to if GCS gets a sequel.

 

[BH/HHH]

This movie really is the perfect place to introduce the Birds of Prey, if they don't in this one, then they need to if GCS gets a sequel.

Yeah I agree, would be fantastic to see them on the big screen.

 

[NotNickFury]

So I sat down and watched the Extended Cut of this film for the first time...and while it doesn't fully change things like the Ultimate Cut for Dawn of Justice did, I did like some of the changes, however minor they were. I still think the movie is an editing nightmare and am at least glad that Ayer got a chance to reflect on this film, even if it's too little, too late for that.

Stuff like Harley psycho-analyzing Katana- and thus giving Katana even a line more of dialogue, I like- or Floyd and Flagg's talks, the bar scene, little things like that I appreciate and am left wondering why they weren't left in. Heck, I still think making this another end-of-the-world third act with Enchantress was a misstep.

I'll give DC this, it was an ambitious step to do a Suicide Squad and while I think the execution was faulty- at least the MCU built up to Guardians- I can't fully fault DC for taking a risk with a film all about villains. But I do think, as Ayer has said, this film would've been better if it were smaller in scale and that the Joker had been the primary threat.

Heck, I find it odd that Waller, collected as she is, doesn't see the Joker as a bigger threat. This isn't some Z-list Batman villain, it's the Joker. When he rolls up in that chopper, I found myself more invested in that than I did anything with Enchantress and her brother. If June Moon had to be in the film, fine, but I would've preferred that Enchantress not be the main antagonist.

 

[TheRedWraith]

So I sat down and watched the Extended Cut of this film for the first time...and while it doesn't fully change things like the Ultimate Cut for Dawn of Justice did, I did like some of the changes, however minor they were. I still think the movie is an editing nightmare and am at least glad that Ayer got a chance to reflect on this film, even if it's too little, too late for that.

Stuff like Harley psycho-analyzing Katana- and thus giving Katana even a line more of dialogue, I like- or Floyd and Flagg's talks, the bar scene, little things like that I appreciate and am left wondering why they weren't left in. Heck, I still think making this another end-of-the-world third act with Enchantress was a misstep.

I'll give DC this, it was an ambitious step to do a Suicide Squad and while I think the execution was faulty- at least the MCU built up to Guardians- I can't fully fault DC for taking a risk with a film all about villains. But I do think, as Ayer has said, this film would've been better if it were smaller in scale and that the Joker had been the primary threat.

Heck, I find it odd that Waller, collected as she is, doesn't see the Joker as a bigger threat. This isn't some Z-list Batman villain, it's the Joker. When he rolls up in that chopper, I found myself more invested in that than I did anything with Enchantress and her brother. If June Moon had to be in the film, fine, but I would've preferred that Enchantress not be the main antagonist.

Your investment was probably more an issue of not fleshing out her character enough doing things like giving a flashback to the glory days when they were king and queen; or making their relationship seem more stable where she doesn't just show concern when he first comes in and when he dies with the rest of the time her treating him like any other henchmen. Giving Incubus a deeper character would help as well. Also exploring some of the events that happened between June's possession and how she became slave to Waller would have also helped.

Also you're making the mistake of bringing in outside knowledge if you think that the Joker is a bigger threat than people like Enchantress and Incubus.

 

[NotNickFury]

Well, I blame Ayer and/or WB for that one, because there's nothing memorable about Enchantress outside of horrid dialogue like 'You don't have the balls.' Joker, for all his grills, tattoos, and odd mannerisms, at least stuck out more, even if for the wrong reasons.

Whether good or bad, I at least got a lasting impression from the Joker. I can't say the same for Enchantress. She comes off like one of the many forgettable villains from the MCU, but with worse dialogue.

 

[kguillou]

I just realized, and please forgive me for my ignorance to these things but why do you guys figure no one has come out what the original "test screening" cut of SS was like? When you go to test screenings, are you under NDA forever and not allowed to talk about the version you saw even after release? Or maybe its just that none of those test screeners care to share the exprience on the internet. lol

 

[Nemeres]

Btw, called it, ish. I helped myself to my cookie long ago.

 

[TheRedWraith]

Btw, called it, ish. I helped myself to my cookie long ago.

The makeup definitely deserved it, it was excellent. Now next time Ayer just needs to hook Agbage up with Gym Jones as his torso wasn't as impressive as it could be physique wise.

 

[Micromind]

[YT]QUuR2wm2hoE[/YT]

 

[Shikaeshi]

Your investment was probably more an issue of not fleshing out her character enough doing things like giving a flashback to the glory days when they were king and queen; or making their relationship seem more stable where she doesn't just show concern when he first comes in and when he dies with the rest of the time her treating him like any other henchmen. Giving Incubus a deeper character would help as well. Also exploring some of the events that happened between June's possession and how she became slave to Waller would have also helped.

Also you're making the mistake of bringing in outside knowledge if you think that the Joker is a bigger threat than people like Enchantress and Incubus.

Yep. The Joker is portrayed as a local psycho and crime boss. Waller would quite properly think, "Leave it to Batman". The Joker is beneath national security considerations.

The Squad will however be pressed into service against Darkseid, whenever that happens. Same goes for any Superman-level threat: Brainiac leaps to mind. Even Luthor, given what he is clearly capable of in the BvS movie.

 

[DeadStroke]

I really like the first two acts of the extended cut.