Suicide Squad: General Discussion and Speculation - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 35

[matt47]

Squad's mission is to retrieve Waller.

And the same argument could be brought up for every solo CBM.

What the hell was their plan for Enchantress and Incubus then?

 

[morningmimosa]

The plan was to establish a scenario in which Waller needed to be rescued by the Squad and to turn them into heroes. But I agree fullheartedly, Enchantress was an extremely lackluster villain. They should have gone for a smaller thread/mission instead where every member's skillset was necessary.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

"Are you kidding me? Some people just don't know when to die."

Small bits like this would have helped the character more. The delivery was actually funny, despite him finishing the guy off.

 

[Greens]

"Are you kidding me? Somethings just don't know when to die."

Small bits like this would have helped the character more. The delivery was actually funny, despite him finishing the guy off.

Reminds me of Heath's lines during the TDK chase. "Excuse me, I want to drive" "Now there's a Batman" small things like that make the Joker what he is, in any interpretation.

 

[Polux]

"Are you kidding me? Some people just don't know when to die."

Small bits like this would have helped the character more. The delivery was actually funny, despite him finishing the guy off.

Agreed.


Polux

 

[KillerWolf]

Reminds me of Heath's lines during the TDK chase. "Excuse me, I want to drive" "Now there's a Batman" small things like that make the Joker what he is, in any interpretation.

Indeed. Which is why I liked the "I was gonna say, I wouldn't do that if I were you" line he says to a dead truck driver Harleen just shot.

 

[Greens]

Indeed. Which is why I liked the "I was gonna say, I wouldn't do that if I were you" line he says to a dead truck driver Harleen just shot.

I'm indifferent to most of that scene, but I loved the "I'll be your friend" voice he did. I think the problem is that Leto felt he should always be "on". He's always moving around and acting like he just ate a handful of shrooms. There has to be a balance (kind of like the "I need a machine gun" line, where he's just talking like a normal person) for the craziness to work.

Unfortunately, it's not like he was given ample time or the right script to pull this off.

 

[DeadStroke]

A 6,000-year-old-witch: "You don't have the balls."

Great stuff.

Since she was controlling the mind of Amanda Waller I'd take that as her using "Waller talk"

As much as I agree with most of the complaints, the climax isn't as bad as some of the other climaxes in my opinion.

Agree

^ That's an understatement. Like I said before, you don't send supervillains on an "end of the world" mission. It just reeks of bad storytelling.

Again, if the Squad is saving the world, what the **** are Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman and everyone else doing?!

Yet, the Ostrander comic had the Suicide Squad constantly fighting and saving the world. So if people have problem with it then have a problem with the source. I get people complaining about the execution though.

What the hell was their plan for Enchantress and Incubus then?

There was no plan for them. Because Enchantress was supposed to be the "plan" for Incubus. They got screwed over and suffered for Waller playing God. Amanda Waller was "THE VILLAIN"
People who have seen the movie at least twice should get that. She could have easily escaped, but instead stayed around to study Enchantress. Thus risking the lives of others. She killed her co-workers. She didn't free the Suicide Squad.

The Squad was sent on a rescue mission. The had their moment in the bar and said screw it we'll go and stop it. They had no idea what the hell Incubus was. They got lucky that Chato was with them.

Indeed. Which is why I liked the "I was gonna say, I wouldn't do that if I were you" line he says to a dead truck driver Harleen just shot.

Maybe my favorite Joker line from the extended cut.

 

[Herolee10]

I honestly wonder if Snyder and Ayer actually had conversations about the continuity shared within the DCEU films because there are a few major discrepancies going on.

Snyder said that the reason why Joker has no real teeth left is because Batman punched them all out after he killed Robin. However, in Suicide Squad, it was stated that Harley was involved in it which doesn't make sense since it was shown that when she first met the Joker in person, he had already lost his teeth.

Another issue that I can't understand is that if Batman had been going on a killing spree prior to his encounter with Superman, then how is it possible that he didn't kill the Joker when he had the chance, let al9ne not having branded him as well?

 

[Slade W]

I honestly wonder if Snyder and Ayer actually had conversations about the continuity shared within the DCEU films because there are a few major discrepancies going on.

Snyder said that the reason why Joker has no real teeth left is because Batman punched them all out after he killed Robin. However, in Suicide Squad, it was stated that Harley was involved in it which doesn't make sense since it was shown that when she first met the Joker in person, he had already lost his teeth.

Another issue that I can't understand is that if Batman had been going on a killing spree prior to his encounter with Superman, then how is it possible that he didn't kill the Joker when he had the chance, let al9ne not having branded him as well?

That one is easy. The Joker is very smart and elusive. Once he knows that Batman wants to kill him, and it doesn't fit Jokers plans at the time, he doesn't allow him to catch him, like we saw in SS.

 

[Wildcard]

I'm indifferent to most of that scene, but I loved the "I'll be your friend" voice he did. I think the problem is that Leto felt he should always be "on". He's always moving around and acting like he just ate a handful of shrooms. There has to be a balance (kind of like the "I need a machine gun" line, where he's just talking like a normal person) for the craziness to work.

Unfortunately, it's not like he was given ample time or the right script to pull this off.

I think Leto's Joker always being "on" could've worked with stronger material, with a handful of lines that pop out and grab you, which is what the Joker is known for. He can make the most enigmatic impression in the smallest frame of time.

The best thing about Heath was that he could improvise at the drop of a dime. And he was such a strong actor that he could come up with brilliant lines all on his own outside what an already excellent script was offering.

Now, Leto's a great actor, but I don't think he can improv to the level Heath could. He needs to be reigned in just a bit more, to be given strong enough material that he doesn't have to try to wing it for everything.

 

[KillerWolf]

I'm indifferent to most of that scene, but I loved the "I'll be your friend" voice he did. I think the problem is that Leto felt he should always be "on". He's always moving around and acting like he just ate a handful of shrooms. There has to be a balance (kind of like the "I need a machine gun" line, where he's just talking like a normal person) for the craziness to work.

Unfortunately, it's not like he was given ample time or the right script to pull this off.

On one hand, I think it works for the character to be overly theatrical... I've always seen Joker as a guy who's in love with his own voice (accidentally, that's how I always saw Leto as well ), still I agree that he should have some quieter moments or rather quietly menacing ones for those louder burst to have full effect.
Also, I don't like certain things in Leto's approach to that (him opening his mouth after finishing a sentence in a very jarring manner, etc.), though I think I have more problems with his depiction of character's craziness than theatrics per se.

And I actually suspect Leto was going for that balance, as he was more subdued in few scenes, but can't be too sure as they cut way too much of his performance. One extended cut later and I still can't make a verdict on his performance. This might be one of the most pointless extended cuts ever.

Maybe my favorite Joker line from the extended cut.

I'm pretty sure it is mine, there's not much of the competition to be honest, as he wasn't given good lines at all. Anyway, it reminds me why I've always been amused by the character, despite kinda getting sick of seeing him everywhere (mainly thanks to "Arkham Games"). It is those moments where he does or reacts to something either dark or twisted in a funny way and you can't help yourself but be amused by it, despite knowing it in your gut it is wrong. Beating someone to death and casually saying "some people just don't know when to die" would classify as one of those moments. They shied away from it, though, like from many other things.

What happened WB?

 

[gothamrogue14]

Deleted Joker Scenes Not On Extended Cut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49My5fAinh8

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49My5fAinh8[/YT]

 

[Wildcard]

Yeah, there's still a hell of a lot on the cutting room floor. Maybe one day they'll release a Joker cut or something. I could see WB doing it. Money is the name of the game, after all.

If not, we're just a poorly structured Joker appearance that could've been phenomenal.

 

[KillerWolf]

Deleted Joker Scenes Not On Extended Cut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49My5fAinh8

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49My5fAinh8[/YT]

Joker slapping Harley and giving Monster T his gun while mockingly pleading with him is missing here.

 

[DeadStroke]

On one hand, I think it works for the character to be overly theatrical... I've always seen Joker as a guy who's in love with his own voice (accidentally, that's how I always saw Leto as well ), still I agree that he should have some quieter moments or rather quietly menacing ones for those louder burst to have full effect.
Also, I don't like certain things in Leto's approach to that (him opening his mouth after finishing a sentence in a very jarring manner, etc.), though I think I have more problems with his depiction of character's craziness than theatrics per se.

And I actually suspect Leto was going for that balance, as he was more subdued in few scenes, but can't be too sure as they cut way too much of his performance. One extended cut later and I still can't make a verdict on his performance. This might be one of the most pointless extended cuts ever.



I'm pretty sure it is mine, there's not much of the competition to be honest, as he wasn't given good lines at all. Anyway, it reminds me why I've always been amused by the character, despite kinda getting sick of seeing him everywhere (mainly thanks to "Arkham Games"). It is those moments where he does or reacts to something either dark or twisted in a funny way and you can't help yourself but be amused by it, despite knowing it in your gut it is wrong. Beating someone to death and casually saying "some people just don't know when to die" would classify as one of those moments. They shied away from it, though, like from many other things.

What happened WB?

I liked the "This is neat"

The problem is it just happens and then they cut away from him for a long time. Really looked a wasted opportunity to have "fun" with the Joker.

 

[KillerWolf]

I liked the "This is neat"

The problem is it just happens and then they cut away from him for a long time. Really looked a wasted opportunity to have "fun" with the Joker.

That line sounded kinda weird to me when I first heard it actually, as if it was someone else's voice.

When you think about it, they cut out every scene where Joker commits a more direct act of violence - him beating that security guy, beating that guy at Arkham Asylum with a bat, slapping Harley, torturing Griggs (this one was supposed to be in the film, right?), etc.

Whole film is a wasted opportunity, you don't put a character like the Joker in a forcingly watered down and tame movie. Simple as that.

 

[gothamrogue14]

When you think about it, they cut out every scene where Joker commits a more direct act of violence - him beating that security guy, beating that guy at Arkham Asylum with a bat, slapping Harley, torturing Griggs (this one was supposed to be in the film, right?), etc.

Whole film is a wasted opportunity, you don't put a character like the Joker in a forcingly watered down and tame movie. Simple as that.

Exactly. It's like they put a leash on The Joker...it doesn't work. They should've just made a 3 hour, R rated Ultimate Cut for home release.

 

[Greens]

That line sounded kinda weird to me when I first heard it actually, as if it was someone else's voice.

Probably ADR. There are a few bad examples of it throughout the movie, especially in the helicopter scene.

 

[Artorias]

"Are you kidding me? Some people just don't know when to die."

Small bits like this would have helped the character more. The delivery was actually funny, despite him finishing the guy off.

This x100

I saw that scene in the special features and I was just shaking my head. Like seriously I get they wanted to cut all the Joker abuse of Harley out, but why did they even cut stuff like that? One of the main criticisms I've seen is Joker isn't funny enough but that was a great line, same with the "don't hurt me I'll be your friend" during the freeway scene.

Exactly. It's like they put a leash on The Joker...it doesn't work. They should've just made a 3 hour, R rated Ultimate Cut for home release.

Pretty much, they made him a love sick puppy. What is even more disappointing for me was Geoff Johns comments on Joker and Harley which makes me think they are going to continue to go down this path with The Joker.

 

[DeadStroke]

This x100

I saw that scene in the special features and I was just shaking my head. Like seriously I get they wanted to cut all the Joker abuse of Harley out, but why did they even cut stuff like that? One of the main criticisms I've seen is Joker isn't funny enough but that was a great line, same with the "don't hurt me I'll be your friend" during the freeway scene.



Pretty much, they made him a love sick puppy. What is even more disappointing for me was Geoff Johns comments on Joker and Harley which makes me think they are going to continue to go down this path with The Joker.

What did he say and how long ago was it?

 

[DeadStroke]

Also I think everyone being upset at the Joker's usage (understandably) is because you're looking at the Joker in a Suicide Squad movie.

If you read the comics Joker really is just somewhere off in the distance. He has a couple scenes with Harley and then its back to the squad.

This was just an intro to the Joker. I've been going back and forth on it, but I understand why they did what they did. They wanted to stick with the source material and have a Suicide Squad movie/ not a Joker movie.

I still think the issue is that we didn't get a Batman/Joker movie first. Otherwise it would have been cool to just see The Joker through Harley's eyes.

If anything Ayer/WB should have just shut their traps about Joker being in this movie at all. Leto should (although I think he didn't know his role would be butchered) have tempered expectations by not talking about how method he went for the role.

Part of me thinks if they only filmed the Joker breaking out Harley at the end for a "surprise ending" a lot of fans would have felt better. Lowered expectations on Suicide Squad and people could have just enjoyed them without the "well when is the Joker showing up" etc etc.

As much as I like the film. I think Ayer bit off more than he could chew trying to establish the Joker as a subplot in a 2hr film. Should have just saved him for the end and let other directors handle him from here on out.

 

[KillerWolf]

Probably ADR. There are a few bad examples of it throughout the movie, especially in the helicopter scene.

That's what I assumed as well. And helicopter scene was particularly terrible with this.

 

[Ivan Drago]

"This look's neat" sounded like Leto's regular voice. I think it may have been a slip up.

 

[Wildcard]

^ It was definitely his regular voice. Surprised he slipped there considering he stayed in character the whole time. Or maybe it was on purpose?