The Dark Knight Tdk/sm3

[DACrowe]

I get it, I just think sometimes fans make mountains out of mole hills.

 

[IceVenom]

Did they have to make Peter Parker and Mary Jane so damn whiny that I always wanted the villians to kill them? Or make the villians so sympathetic that you find yourself on their side as opposed to Spiderman? God I hate all three of those movies. I want a wise cracking Spiderman who fights villians, not a whiny little punk who basically beats up guys who have just suffered some tragedy or are down on their luck or something.

I'm very glad someone thinks the same way I do on this board. Honestly all of the spider-man movies could have been done much better.

SM2's Doc Ock was good? I dnk people. As Doctor Octavious the scientist he was brilliantly written. The second he turned into a villain i thought his script was thrown out the window. He was cheesy, predictable, boring, and cliche`. I could go on for days why SM1 is the only decently made Spider Man film.

As for all of this hating on Venom. I have a question for you guys. what does Electro, Vulture, Rhino, Shocker, Hob Goblin, Scorpion, Mysterio, ect have that Venom doesn't?

What's the difference between A bulky journalist, who has never had anybody in his life that loved/needed him, have everything taken away from him indirectly and directly by Spider-man and Peter Parker and Some old dude that wants to stay young forever so he dresses up in a ridiculous Vulture costume to steal the young out of people. Or an enigmatic, rehashed goblin concept who occasionally tortures Spiderman. (Don't get me wrong I loved SM:Animated Series version of hob goblin.)

Character wise The only more interesting characters are GG and Doc Ock.

 

[KILLING JOKER]

I don't care. Sure, the costume sucks, but the character was spot on (minus one small annoyance in the story). In the end, that is what I care about more.

Saying the costume sucked is a massive understatement. What they did to the Green Goblin was an absoulete sin. When I heard Dafoe was cast as the Goblin I thought it was the greatest casting of all time and they put him in a power rangers suit with that mask over his PERFECT goblin face? I liked SM, I did, but that was unforgivable and just downright stupid.

 

[IceVenom]

Saying the costume sucked is a massive understatement. What they did to the Green Goblin was an absoulete sin. When I heard Dafoe was cast as the Goblin I thought it was the greatest casting of all time and they put him in a power rangers suit with that mask over his PERFECT goblin face? I liked SM, I did, but that was unforgivable and just downright stupid.

It sure as sh** was. Honestly that is kinda the only thing that really bugs me in Spider-Man one. I thought the "natural web shooters" was a good idea movie wise. Mary Jane/Peter were not incredibly annoying and whinny. I can understand why he wasn't that vocal with comedic insults as he just got into his role as Spider-man. JJ is by far the best written and acted character lol. I suppose a more thought out Flash Thompson would be nice.

I'd argue that Batman Begins was a better movie then Spider-Man though and I'm a complete Spider man fan over batman. Hell I'm Marvel over DC all the way. However I can put my bias thoughts beside and definitely declare Batman Begins the better of the two.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I'm just glad, delighted, that we are getting these huge Spider-Man and Batman movies one after the other, interspersed with X-Men, Superman, et al. No-oone even dreamed we'd get to this stage, literally a flood of superhero movies, and with the quality (and budgets) so high.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I'm just glad, delighted, that we are getting these huge Spider-Man and Batman movies one after the other, interspersed with X-Men, Superman, et al. No-oone even dreamed we'd get to this stage, literally a flood of superhero movies, and with the quality (and budgets) so high.

I know it, we are pretty blessed when it comes to superhero/comic book films these days, and its only going to keep going.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Saying the costume sucked is a massive understatement. What they did to the Green Goblin was an absoulete sin. When I heard Dafoe was cast as the Goblin I thought it was the greatest casting of all time and they put him in a power rangers suit with that mask over his PERFECT goblin face? I liked SM, I did, but that was unforgivable and just downright stupid.

It didn't ruin the movie for me. I am kind of numb to the costume now. Could it be better? Sure, but we still got one hell of a GG in the movie. That is where it counts for me.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

It didn't ruin the movie for me. I am kind of numb to the costume now. Could it be better? Sure, but we still got one hell of a GG in the movie. That is where it counts for me.

Im glad it dosent bother you, because I hate it with a passion and it definitly ruined alot for me. You dont cast a great actor with a physical resemblence to GG in real life and then cover his face with a stupid looking helmet, when I saw they were doing that it pissed me right off!

 

[DACrowe]

I'm very glad someone thinks the same way I do on this board. Honestly all of the spider-man movies could have been done much better.

SM2's Doc Ock was good? I dnk people. As Doctor Octavious the scientist he was brilliantly written. The second he turned into a villain i thought his script was thrown out the window. He was cheesy, predictable, boring, and cliche`. I could go on for days why SM1 is the only decently made Spider Man film.

As for all of this hating on Venom. I have a question for you guys. what does Electro, Vulture, Rhino, Shocker, Hob Goblin, Scorpion, Mysterio, ect have that Venom doesn't?

What's the difference between A bulky journalist, who has never had anybody in his life that loved/needed him, have everything taken away from him indirectly and directly by Spider-man and Peter Parker and Some old dude that wants to stay young forever so he dresses up in a ridiculous Vulture costume to steal the young out of people. Or an enigmatic, rehashed goblin concept who occasionally tortures Spiderman. (Don't get me wrong I loved SM:Animated Series version of hob goblin.)

Character wise The only more interesting characters are GG and Doc Ock.

SM2 (minus Doc Ock going bad because of inhibitor chips and a whiney MJ) nailed the comics I think. It may have been done in the superhero movie formula (like BB and one reason TDK is so great, because it is the first to discard it) but no movie has operated in those limitations, better IMHO.

As for your villains. You mostly listed B-listers. Which your right Venom fits right in with them. But Hobgoblin is an A-lister. He may be a "rehashed GG," but if you read the comics you know the identity of Hobby haunted Spidey for years. He made Spidey's life hell and did some serious damage when he framed two of Peter's friends to be him, first Flash but then he got Ned Leeds, Betty Brant's husband who she was having an affair on (at one time with Peter and later with Flash) killed. Betty went into deep depression and Peter took it personally. Hobby also restarted the mobster wars that brought Kingpin out of retirement and was one of the tipping points of driving Harry Osborn back into insanity. Plus he had DOZENS of great stories written about him.

Venom at most has two. And again a glorified stalker. Yeah he knows Spidey's identity, but has he done anything with it? Nope. He was a one-trick pony who they tried to turn into an anti-hero when he got stale and when that didn't work they made him a B-lister who Spidey yawned about and then when that got pathetic they "killed" off Brock and gave the symbiote to the Scorpion of all people who still remains a B-lister as Venom-Gargan.

The list of Spidey rogues that are better than Venom in character, style, substance and quality of stories again includes Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Green Goblin II, The Lizard, Kingpin, Hobgoblin and Kraven the Hunter. I also prefer many of the B-listers like Scorpion (pre-Venom days) and Electro as they have been better utilized as villains than Venom has. Venom is almost entirely failed potential.


Just my opinion sorry if I get too long-winded about this (we at the Spidey boards just have these sorta' discussions a lot).

 

[DACrowe]

I'd argue that Batman Begins was a better movie then Spider-Man though and I'm a complete Spider man fan over batman. Hell I'm Marvel over DC all the way. However I can put my bias thoughts beside and definitely declare Batman Begins the better of the two.

I'd agree. I think SM1 is very good, but Nolan's BB topped it, just as TDK topped SM2. Albeit, I'd say SM2 is better than SM1 and BB. Really, we have a very solid Spidey franchise (I still think while SM3 was disappointing it wasn't the bubonic plague people make it out out be and had some redeeming features) and an amazing Bat-franchise. Yet people still hate both. And just a head's up, Raimi and Maguire were beloved after SM2 now look at how fans treat their names. It only takes a BB3 that isn't as good as TDK or even BB that will cause the avalanche of hatred and complaining to kick into overdrive. I already see the seeds of it with "Bale's Batman voice sucks," "Joker should have been permawhite" and the whole argument and denial that Two-Face died.

"(Fan) madness is like gravity, as you very well know. All it takes is a little push."

 

[Mac_Hine]

SM3 was actually pretty good untill Peter started turning into Emo-Man. After that, it was all down hill and it never stopped.

 

[Man Who Laughed]

And let's not forget that TDK has a lot going on, but it's about 2 and a half hours long. What's SM3, like two hours? TDK actually takes it's time with the story. Thus making it better.

 

[Delete]

One other thing I hated about the first Spiderman movie that they got so right in TDK. When Green Goblin has the tram and Mary Jane and says Spiderman has to choose who lives and who dies only for Spiderman to save them both in 1.2 seconds annoyed me so much. One of the reasons I do not like that movie.

In TDK Joker gives Batman the same scenario and someone actually dies. That's the way to do it. Or at least not have the hero save everyone with total ease.

 

[Man Who Laughed]

^^
Agreed. I saw the similarities in that scene, as I'm sure most everyone else did. That's actually one of my favorite lines from SM. "We are who we choose to be, Spider-Man. Now choose!"

And Joker just did so much of a better job. Not only did he make it so that Batman got there at the last minute and had a slim chance of saving either victim, but regardless, he would have saved the wrong one. Genius.

 

[KILLING JOKER]

It sure as sh** was. Honestly that is kinda the only thing that really bugs me in Spider-Man one. I thought the "natural web shooters" was a good idea movie wise. Mary Jane/Peter were not incredibly annoying and whinny. I can understand why he wasn't that vocal with comedic insults as he just got into his role as Spider-man. JJ is by far the best written and acted character lol. I suppose a more thought out Flash Thompson would be nice.

I'd argue that Batman Begins was a better movie then Spider-Man though and I'm a complete Spider man fan over batman. Hell I'm Marvel over DC all the way. However I can put my bias thoughts beside and definitely declare Batman Begins the better of the two.

Yeah, I do agree that "Begins" is better but I did like Spider-man. I feel that they got enough right and they hit the spirit of the character. I liked the origin story very much but I was really PO'd not only with the Goblin suit but the absence of Gwen and the Goblin killing her. Such a huge part of Spider-mans tragedy. To not have it in was a disgrace. What choice do we have but to swallow these things. Web shooters are awesome and should not have been taken out. So yeah, as much as it irritated me ,in so many ways, I have to say that it was still a good enough movie to truly enjoy. Now, had they gotten those other things right? Then it would have felt like I did watching the Dark Knight. Damn near perfect.

 

[KILLING JOKER]

It didn't ruin the movie for me. I am kind of numb to the costume now. Could it be better? Sure, but we still got one hell of a GG in the movie. That is where it counts for me.

Didn't ruin the movie for me either as I said in my post above. Still, to say we got "a hell of a GG?" No, other than the fact that the voice was awesome, he rode a glider and threw pumpkin bombs it still wasn't enough to change that he was mecha-goblin.

I mean here's the thing.....even if the Green Goblin wasn't a real character and they made that suit for a made up villian? How bad would it suck? It sucks and it sucks hard. I'll never forget the day I saw the spy photo of it. I said "dear god, please let this be a fake...please..." Well you know how that turned out. All you got to do is slap some green on Dafoes face and skin, put him in dark purple with the goblin hat, tell him to do that demonic smile and BAM!!!!!

but no...we got mecha-goblin

Green Goblin was always my favorite. I doubt he'll ever have a chance to be on the big screen again. Wow, I haven't gotten rattled like this since 2002. lol....

Anyways....TDK OWNS

 

[DACrowe]

Hm, I'd agree adding Gwen dying and some tragedy for Peter at the end may have made it a better movie (albeit it may have hurt SM2 if he is so closed off after Gwen's death he isn't even talking to Mary Jane or not in love with her, which really helped move the second so smoothly). Still, I wouldn't say SM1 is a bad movie because of it. People tend to think because a superhero movie isn't the way they envisioned it on these boards, it must be bad. But I agree SM1 would've been stronger had the MJ role been Gwen Stacy who died at the end (and MJ could be a supporting part who was friends with Harry and Pete). But oh well.

I will point out, however, that the web-shooters are entirely inconsequential to the quality of the movie. If he had mechs the movie would not have deeper meaning, it may even flow less smoothly as it would have been another 5 minutes at least of exposition of him making them and the first two Spideys flow very well (the second more naturally and organically but the first as a good coming of age/adventure film). The mechs would've been one less thing fans would whine about, but they really were unimportant to the quality of the films.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think losing Gwen would have made SM1 weaker. He already lost Uncle Ben. I don't you can have him lose Gwen in the same movie. Too much tradgedy. That would have to be a sequel event to me.

 

[Vile]

Everyone has raised some great points - one thing that bothered me was Peter's lack of evolution as a character through the films.

He stayed a social ****** through 3 films.

 

[CaptainClown]

Everyone has raised some great points - one thing that bothered me was Peter's lack of evolution as a character through the films.

He stayed a social ****** through 3 films.

 

[digu rui]

SM3 was actually pretty good untill Peter started turning into Emo-Man. After that, it was all down hill and it never stopped.

spiderman 3 xucked from beginning to end. the story was very bad, the acting was bad, the dialogue was horrible, even the action was bad, totally fake. i honestly hated this movie with a passion

 

[combusticator]

LOL!!!!!

I don't want to sound just like a pure hater! But Spiderman has always been my least favorite of the comic book movies. Spiderman 2 was better, but still...just Mary Jane ALWAYS annoyed me, and just Maguire was just TOO much of a nerd for me.

I don't want to sound like a troll (good thing I'm in TDK boards), I know and respect those that DO love Spiderman movies, but it's kinda funny to hear a few more people knocking them a little more.

Spiderman 3 was definitely the worst of the bunch...by a LONG, LONG, LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG shot though. Spidey 2 was alright, and the first...Green Goblin..........

 

[redfirebird2008]

Why the hell are these two movies even in the same thread title?

 

[combusticator]

I think there is one answer to the question of SM3 and TDK and the difference:

two words: making omelettes

 

[DACrowe]

Everyone has raised some great points - one thing that bothered me was Peter's lack of evolution as a character through the films.

He stayed a social ****** through 3 films.

He was awkward but he actually had a wide range of growth in all three movies.

As for egg-cooking, if that was your least favorite part of SM3 it would have been a great movie. It was more doing the twist in that scene that damaged it, but that would have been forgivable if Spidey didn't fall into Saturday Night Fever in the third act.