The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

Grant Gustin should have had a cameo in this. Dude carried the torch for almost a decade and Ezra even appeared on his show.

They could have had a moment together during the post credit tag. Instead of that idiotic scene we did get.

I dont understand how they could use a rando for the face of Jay Garrick instead of using OG Flash and how they can include so many Supers but cant include Grant in the same scene?
 
I dont understand how they could use a rando for the face of Jay Garrick instead of using OG Flash and how they can include so many Supers but cant include Grant in the same scene?
He can make up any excuse he wants, but LBR, it's 100% because Andy Muschietti had zero love or even interest in the CW show. Or...the Flash. :hehe:
 
And lets be honest im sure Grant is thinking right now, “phew! Thank goodness they DIDNT ask me to cameo in this!”

I dont know, considering how many people by now go "If only they would have used him for a cameo".

Considering really the top complain about the movie seems to be about the Cameos, i feel like things would have looked way more positive with him being in there.
Big Blockbuster movie exposure for him, even just for a cameo could have been good for him.

But thats neither here nor there, they choose what they did and now face the criticism of that.
Still, would have been interesting to see how much difference this all would have been if they wouldnt have used these weird bad CGI cameos and instead used the people who one way or another played these characters.
 
I don't think a cameo would make that much of a difference, now if he was the other Barry instead of their being two Ezra Miller Barrys... that could have made a little bit of a difference. But you'd have to change the outcome of the other Barry, or it would make people mad lol.

That said, still a very very odd choice not to include him in some capacity. Not even a deleted scene with him? Kinda nuts.
 
1.) I love that the costume designers created a flexible cowl for Keaton to turn his head and he was like ''My Batman doesn't do that! No thanks''. I'm really glad he kept the Bat-turn.

2.) I really DON'T like that the reason he quit as Batman was because he killed a villain in front of their child. That is WAY too dark even for Burton's Batman. Hate everything about it and I'm very glad it was removed. Batman Beyond was right there... this just smacks of them thinking too hard.



I'll always be thankful that Keaton put the suit on one last time, but the filmmakers made some big mistakes with key aspects of his characterization. Also sad to hear how much love he had for the character, only for him to end up in one of the biggest box office bombs of all time. All things considered, I kind of wish Keaton held out for a project WITH Burton or a possible Elseworlds Batman Beyond film under Gunn/Safran.

Now WB won't touch his Batman with a ten foot pole.
 
1.) I love that the costume designers created a flexible cowl for Keaton to turn his head and he was like ''My Batman doesn't do that! No thanks''. I'm really glad he kept the Bat-turn.
Agreed. Also like how the second Barry takes the neck off from the Batman suit during the final battle.
 
Now WB won't touch his Batman with a ten foot pole.

That wasn't going to happen anyway. Gunn wanted to move away from relying on anything from the past. That writing was on the wall as soon as Batgirl was cancelled. Knowing Keaton, he was quickly going to lose interest in being jerked around by WB and probably wouldn't have come back anyway. Flash's BO numbers are just a new wrinkle.

Agreed about the director's head canon. It reeks of Andy not actually knowing those movies well enough--Keaton's Batman killed plenty, so the idea that another kill (regardless of who saw it) would stop him is a big stetch. I'm glad that that junk wasn't included, as the idea that he retired like right after Returns is garbage. How did Gotham get so safe then? Why did Barry's roommates even know who he is if he stopped before they were born?

We got lucky his return was as good as it is, frankly.
 

I mean, that's embarrassing that it's showing so clearly but... Who really thought that was Keaton's hair? Anybody who knows him knew that was a wig without any movie gaffes lol
 
Absolutely right that Keaton kept the Bat-turn! The man knows what works. It's an integral part of the character. And that reason Muschietti gave for why he thinks Keaton's Batman retired is just bull. He made Gotham a safer place. He achieved what he set out to do. But there were definitely other adventures...

It would be nice if Warners putting that out on their official channel even before the Blu-ray hits was a way of testing the water regarding a possible Batman Beyond movie or mini-series. Those YouTube comments are about 98% in praise of Keaton, saying he was the reason the movie made any money, and begging for his return. Probably not, though.
 

You know…maybe this bit of very integral backstory should’ve been indicated in the movie. Just a thought.
 
You know…maybe this bit of very integral backstory should’ve been indicated in the movie. Just a thought.

Hell no, it shouldn't have. I'm glad it didn't make it in. Better to leave things unexplained than to give a reason that isn't very good. Although I don't follow along with that "Jake Skywalker" crowd, I do agree that it's a bummer to find out your hero became such a failure that they quit... but if you're making a film that's all about them, then I'll let it slide, because you can presumably make the entire film a satisfying redemption arc.

In a film where Keaton was just a supporting character? No thanks. Imagine if the film was exactly the same, but they had kept in that element? It wouldn't have felt like he had truly redeemed himself or sufficiently gotten over it. That's a heavy enough detail that he really should have had more focus to increase any possible payoff, and the last thing a Flash movie ought to be doing is taking the focus too far away from Barry and his journey.

I mean, I take issue with the very idea, anyway. If you look at just Burton's two films, Batman has very little in the way of an arc. Without Batman Forever to re-contextualize the events of '89 and Returns (and it does), Batman has no sense of remorse for the killing he's done. Sure, he hasn't murdered anyone in front of a child... but I don't believe somebody that thinks killing is okay would be put off by anyone seeing it. Unless you're going to tell me he mistakenly killed an innocent man, Keaton's Batman probably would have felt justified all the same. But say I'm willing to roll with that--it's more depressing that instead of it being the incident to let him cement a new moral compass and establish a no-kill code for himself, he just walks away. He doesn't choose to be better, he quits.

Frankly, it's why, in my heart, Batman Forever will always be the proper continuation of that universe, because the writers actually cared enough to put Batman on a better path, accepting the mistakes of the past but forging ahead. While it was wonderful to see Michael return to the role, as far as I'm concerned, the Keaton we see in The Flash is rightfully an offshoot variant that wasn't meant to be. It was okay enough because something better was on the horizon--he was going to be playing a new version going forward who had become a better man. Not lonely, not broken... a grand patriarch in a world of superheroes, with a Bat Family of his own. But that was stolen from us.

At least, canonically to The Flash's own sequence of events, we're painted a better picture--that this variant of Wayne succeeded in saving Gotham and had earned the right to retire. It's heartening, it's uplifting and satisfying. This BS idea for backstory was wisely deleted.
 
Thank Zod we have Matt Reeves. After Andy failed to represent Keaton as Batman, I don’t trust him at all with Brave & The Bold.
 
Thank Zod we have Matt Reeves. After Andy failed to represent Keaton as Batman, I don’t trust him at all with Brave & The Bold.

Looking at what made it into the final cut, I think he actually served Keaton very well... However, how much of that was due to the help of someone else is anyone's guess.

The initial thing that Andy had going for him in people's minds was he represented Batman with iconic elements not seen since before Nolan--a lot of theatrical Bat theming and stylish design (The new Batwing is easily the best Bat vehicle we've had since Schumacher)... although now it's probably just his attempt to be consistent with what Burton brought, so perhaps Andy now has no redeeming qualities to stand on :funny:
 
The ending being such a downer was an odd choice. If they wanted a crowd-pleasing blockbuster but didn't want to have Keaton and Supergirl show up at the very end then they needed a third act where they actually save the young Barry/Keaton/Supergirl universe from Zod & Dark Flash and establish that it now exists independently of Barry's universe with young Barry, Supergirl and Keaton serving as its protectors. Now, I actually think the ending we got was more interesting but not nearly as satisfying.
 
That little YoungBarry laugh supercut was so grating.
 
So do you guys think Flash will ever get another movie? This was one of the biggest bombs in WB history.
 

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