The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man: Box Office Thread - Part 3

[Marvin]

Joss Whedon is nothing like Michael Bay

yea unlike bay, Whedon tends to write his stuff and usually get's to infuse character drama into cult or smaller productions from the place where it all starts, the scripts. Bay has always been at the helm of the biggest studio productions where he infact doesn't get to write about characters and their development.

It's funny how the genius character development guy(that I love) all of a sudden was given a studio film and it's biggest criticism is that it completely lacked character development. Welcome to the other side of the fence Joss. Tmr fanboys will be unfavorably comparing you to the cult indie upstart that has sold out and actually has character development...over 23 episodes of a season.

 

[Donald Thomas]

I'd take those numbers with a grain of salt. It is very hard to account for foreign inflation you literally have to take into account how strong each individual nations dollars was at the time compared to the us dollar compared to now.

For a while TDKR had sold more tickets or so in the UK than TDK but it's converted revenues were actually lower due to the fact that the UK pound was weaker now than it was in 2008.

So accounting for WW total inflation takes more than just converting a sub total of 800m or so into whatever that amount is worth today. So it is really impossible/hard to say what the spider-man's foreign take would convert to today.

Aloha,
Brilliant
Spidey rules

 

[Spiderdevil]

The story was stupid and cookie cutter at best. We have Peter Parker searching for his father legacy, then it's completely forgotten. We then have Peter trying to find the man who killed his Uncle, then thats completely forgotten. We then have Peter trying to stop a giant Lizard thing from turning the city into giant lizard things. Then we get a message about responsibility at the end. Theres no consistency there, and it wasn't marvelous writing. The fact is if Webb didn't give us good characterizations and develop Peter and Gwens relationship so well, the movie would have been a disaster. Everything people are praising can be credited to either Garfield, Stone, or Webb.

Also lame action sequences,too much night action,video gamish graphics,very poor editing and ridiculously poor pacing in the second half of the movie
All of which can be attributed to Webb

 

[Spiderdevil]

I'm mostly talking about the hype on the forum months before the summer CBMs hit. Everyone made it seem like a three-way battle would commence.

Yeah the same,Just look at the Bat boards and Avengers forum on this very site and compare the traffic with TASM's
You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see which had more anticipation and hype before release

I was part of the conversation so I would know

Which began after the post I quoted,just read them again

Doubtful. Goyer's script needed help with a third final act but we heard nothing about any trouble with the script and only that Kurtzman and Orci were brought up to re-write Vanderbilt's first draft.

Neither of the movie has been released yet so we are yet to see

Having "popcorn-flick action" does not make the two films that similar though. To even put the two films together for a comparison or even the directors is idiotic.

Popcorn-Flick action is a MAJOR part of both the movies,and audience who dont care about anything else than action will find them similar

I could've sworn that way of thinking was much, much different before the summer even started and now people say otherwise after seeing how much Avengers and TDKR destroyed TAS-M. It's the closest thing a fanboy can become a politician with backtracking their thoughts on what a movie could be and how the movie actually came to be.

That was always my opinion,I am not back tracking.
Just read back before the release,I was always saying that the hype is nothing compared to TDKR's and TA's.A lot of my friends didnt even know a Spider-man movie was being released a month or so before release
Just show me one credible box office estimate article pre-release which says TASM will have as much chance as TDKR or TA

much different before the summer even started and now people say otherwise after seeing how much Avengers and TDKR destroyed TAS-M.

Nice try but 760M compared to 1.1B is hardly 'destroying' especially when we take into consideration the fact that TDKR is the 3rd movie and TASM the 1st and TDKR got a higher budget aswell
By your logic even TA destroyed TDKR,the difference is greater and TA got a lesser budget aswell

 

[Spiderdevil]

BTW TASM crossed 750M
It stands now on 751.5M

 

[LegendAssemble]

Also lame action sequences,too much night action,video gamish graphics,very poor editing and ridiculously poor pacing in the second half of the movie
All of which can be attributed to Webb

I didn't really mind the action sequences, the pacing was poor, and the editing was even worse, but I take it he didn't edit it.

Oh, and to everyone telling me that since I don't have a credible source Sony wasn't happy with his work, why is there question if he's coming back?

 

[Spiderdevil]

My thinking is that Sony wont mind him coming back but they are not so impressed to negogiate with Fox about him,they will simple hire a new director

 

[Anno_Domini]

Yeah the same,Just look at the Bat boards and Avengers forum on this very site and compare the traffic with TASM's
You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see which had more anticipation and hype before release

However members were on doesn't matter. Even in the respective boards, people still acknowledged the other CBMs. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that people don't have to show up on a film's personal area in a forum to be excited.

Which began after the post I quoted,just read them again

As I said...I would know what the conversation was about since I was a part of it.

Certain replies should be the end of a discussion, but I guess some posters are just clueless.

Neither of the movie has been released yet so we are yet to see

We will never know what exactly was changed since we don't know what the first draft was even about, so I don't quite understand your logic of waiting for the film to be released.

Popcorn-Flick action is a MAJOR part of both the movies,and audience who dont care about anything else than action will find them similar

So the audience that find them similar are idiots as well. But a smarter person will not compare the films.

That was always my opinion,I am not back tracking.
Just read back before the release,I was always saying that the hype is nothing compared to TDKR's and TA's.A lot of my friends didnt even know a Spider-man movie was being released a month or so before release
Just show me one credible box office estimate article pre-release which says TASM will have as much chance as TDKR or TA

Your opinion, awesome. But a majority thought differently. I was around here longer, I'd know.

Nice try but 760M compared to 1.1B is hardly 'destroying' especially when we take into consideration the fact that TDKR is the 3rd movie and TASM the 1st and TDKR got a higher budget aswell
By your logic even TA destroyed TDKR,the difference is greater and TA got a lesser budget aswell

Billion > Million = destroying. Let alone the critical reaction is much different with TDKR and TA over TAS-M.

And...after tax cuts, TDKR really only had $230 million...only $10 million more than TA.

 

[LegendAssemble]

Nice try but 760M compared to 1.1B is hardly 'destroying' especially when we take into consideration the fact that TDKR is the 3rd movie and TASM the 1st and TDKR got a higher budget aswell
By your logic even TA destroyed TDKR,the difference is greater and TA got a lesser budget aswell

340M is an enormous difference. Yeah the Avengers did destroy the Dark Knight Rises at the box office, in fact it destroyed every movie besides Avatar. Had Titanic not been released, it would have destroyed that too. Not to mention AMS it doesn't matter it was the third film, sequels only some times do better than their originals, usually they DO NOT perform as well. Look at Star Wars Phantom Menace and A New Hope are the highest grossing of those films and both are the first of their respective trilogies. Not to mention as Anno already pointed out, 10 mil isn't that big a difference.

AMS wasn't a financial failure by any means, but it wasn't like it came close to Avengers or Dark Knight.

 

[LegendAssemble]

My thinking is that Sony wont mind him coming back but they are not so impressed to negogiate with Fox about him,they will simple hire a new director

Theres a reason they chose Marc Webb, it was his first big studio film and they figured he'd be easy to manipulate. They ditched Sam Raimi because he was too difficult and my guess is he wasn't as much their puppet as they would have liked. Look, the Fox thing wasn't something new, they were aware when they hired him and most likely had already (or were planning on) negotiated with Fox. Since they really editted the hell out of the movie and the way it's shot doesn't scream blockbuster action flick, they probably didn't feel the need to bring him back.

 

[spider-neil]

Let's be honest here, ASM was a much harder sell than than Avengers and TDKR. Avengers is unprecedented (bringing seperate franchises together) TDKR is the conclusion to an acclaimed trilogy. Why not compare ASM to the Batman reboot Batman Begins, or the individual movies of the Avengers heroes?

 

[Oscorp]

I didn't really mind the action sequences, the pacing was poor, and the editing was even worse, but I take it he didn't edit it.

Oh, and to everyone telling me that since I don't have a credible source Sony wasn't happy with his work, why is there question if he's coming back?

I won't ask you to give any source about that anyway because:

Here are your FACTS!

http://www.superherohype.com/news/a...c-webb-confirmed-for-the-amazing-spider-man-2

I'm sorry I just had to haha!

 

[Lorus]

It's funny how hindsight changes things. The earlier versions of this thread are filled with various comments detailing how Spider-Man's pop cultural status alone is more potent than anything related to the Avengers and would bring in a massive haul. These same people were convinced that nobody cared about the Marvel studios films outside of Iron Man and the team up aspect appealed to nobody but the fanboys. There are arguments to support this of course, some fairly compelling, but it's interesting that now everyone takes for granted that Avengers would make tonnes of money and the thought that Spider-Man should outperform it is clearly ridiculous. Wasn't the general concensus before the release of Avengers that it would come last, behind Spider-Man with The Dark Knight Rises on top?

 

[Spiderdevil]

However members were on doesn't matter. Even in the respective boards, people still acknowledged the other CBMs. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that people don't have to show up on a film's personal area in a forum to be excited.

You have to be an idiot to not acknowledge that the amount of traffic on the respective boards is an indicator for hype pre-release
Even with the minuscle attention TASM got in here in comparison to the Bat boards and TA's,many of the people here are primarily TDKR's and TA's fans

As I said...I would know what the conversation was about since I was a part of it.

Keep telling yourself that

Certain replies should be the end of a discussion, but I guess some posters are just clueless.

I could say the same for you

We will never know what exactly was changed since we don't know what the first draft was even about, so I don't quite understand your logic of waiting for the film to be released.

Good point
So we should stop postulating on what was a simple brush up and what is a total revamp since we're never gonna know

So the audience that find them similar are idiots as well. But a smarter person will not compare the films.

You dont have the right to call any audience an Idiot
People go to the movies expecting different things and thats completely fair

Your opinion, awesome. But a majority thought differently. I was around here longer, I'd know.

For the CB fans maybe,but the GA hype for the 3 movies was enough to guarantee that it was gonna be a 2 horse race

Billion > Million = destroying.

Idiotic analogy
TA earned a larger fraction more than TDKR than TDKR did from TASM(Not to mention the budget comparison)
So if TDKR destroyed TASM then its safe to assume TA destroyed TDKR

Let alone the critical reaction is much different with TDKR and TA over TAS-M.

But we are talking about money here

And...after tax cuts, TDKR really only had $230 million...only $10 million more than TA.

What?

 

[Spiderdevil]

340M is an enormous difference. Yeah the Avengers did destroy the Dark Knight Rises at the box office, in fact it destroyed every movie besides Avatar. Had Titanic not been released, it would have destroyed that too. Not to mention AMS it doesn't matter it was the third film, sequels only some times do better than their originals, usually they DO NOT perform as well. Look at Star Wars Phantom Menace and A New Hope are the highest grossing of those films and both are the first of their respective trilogies.

Thank you
Thats my point

Not to mention as Anno already pointed out, 10 mil isn't that big a difference.

Isnt it 30M?
Whatever,the point is TDKR's production budget was higher than TA's
And on the other hand TASM's production budget was lower(equal?) than TDKR's
On top of that the difference in earnings is higher between TA and TDKR than between TDKR and TASM
So the conclusion is that TA clearly destroyed TDKR a lot more

AMS wasn't a financial failure by any means, but it wasn't like it came close to Avengers or Dark Knight.

Which is completely alright since its just the first movie,to put matters into prespective,it did better than BB and all the solo Marvel movies

 

[Spiderdevil]

Theres a reason they chose Marc Webb, it was his first big studio film and they figured he'd be easy to manipulate.

What the **** are you talking about?
They hired him because they wanted to develop the characters more and Webb became the choice due to his success with 500 Days of summer.They figuered he would be perfect in developing the characters and he did do his job at that.
Seriously,you are master of making conspiracy theories

They ditched Sam Raimi because he was too difficult and my guess is he wasn't as much their puppet as they would have liked.

And your guess is wrong
There were hundred's of things going wrong with SM4

Look, the Fox thing wasn't something new, they were aware when they hired him and most likely had already (or were planning on) negotiated with Fox. Since they really editted the hell out of the movie and the way it's shot doesn't scream blockbuster action flick, they probably didn't feel the need to bring him back.

Exactly and to be honest I dont really care
The characters are developed already and I would love someone experienced to come in who came direct the script well and give the action set pieces the creativity Spider-man deserves
All I care about is that the Parents/Norman Angle should be tied up rather than let loose
I think Ditching Marc Webb will be a blessing in disguise

 

[Spiderdevil]

Let's be honest here, ASM was a much harder sell than than Avengers and TDKR. Avengers is unprecedented (bringing seperate franchises together) TDKR is the conclusion to an acclaimed trilogy. Why not compare ASM to the Batman reboot Batman Begins, or the individual movies of the Avengers heroes?

 

[Spiderdevil]

It's funny how hindsight changes things. The earlier versions of this thread are filled with various comments detailing how Spider-Man's pop cultural status alone is more potent than anything related to the Avengers and would bring in a massive haul. These same people were convinced that nobody cared about the Marvel studios films outside of Iron Man and the team up aspect appealed to nobody but the fanboys. There are arguments to support this of course, some fairly compelling, but it's interesting that now everyone takes for granted that Avengers would make tonnes of money and the thought that Spider-Man should outperform it is clearly ridiculous. Wasn't the general concensus before the release of Avengers that it would come last, behind Spider-Man with The Dark Knight Rises on top?

You have a very good point

So its fair to say that TASM and TDKR got what they were aiming for while The Avengers outdid itself

 

[Anno_Domini]

You have to be an idiot to not acknowledge that the amount of traffic on the respective boards is an indicator for hype pre-release

And you have to be an idiot to not realize that people STILL commented TAS-M even on other parts of the forums. The traffic means little because TAS-M or any Spidey board is full of complaining here and there with Webb's reboot and Raimi's trilogy. No one wants to get involved with that childish mess.

People talk about how TAS-M is going to be as great as TA and TDKR....and then all of a sudden, they back off and say it was never going to happen.

I look for the same in 2014 with TAS-M 2 and when it doesn't perform as well...they'll take a few steps back and try to make mention that they knew what was going to happen all along

Even with the minuscle attention TASM got in here in comparison to the Bat boards and TA's many of the people here are primarily TDKR's and TA's fans

Now, yes. Because the movie was only mediocre at best.

Keep telling yourself that

Keep telling you facts? I've been doing that ever since you stuck your nose into replying me when I said the RT score would be going down with TAS-M

I could say the same for you

How? I tell you what was really going on between the discussion between myself and Messiah and you still try to believe you're right. How could you say the same for me? Do I try to intervene any discussions between you and a fellow poster and exclaim that I am right?

Good point
So we should stop postulating on what was a simple brush up and what is a total revamp since we're never gonna know

I never said it was a total revamp of the script, but only that it COULD and it could lead to certain plots being thrown to the wayside. But, it doesn't really matter now because with Webb still on board, he would make sure to continue those plotlines.

You dont have the right to call any audience an Idiot
People go to the movies expecting different things and thats completely fair

They're idiots

And further to compare an excellent CBM to a sound-blasting, CGI-madness, close-up shots of ass all around type of trash film is idiotic.

For the CB fans maybe,but the GA hype for the 3 movies was enough to guarantee that it was gonna be a 2 horse race

Aren't we only talking about CBM fans here and not the GA in regards to the three CBMs?

But, yes, for the GA, it was only a two horse race. The general audience probably don't even have a clear winner at all between the two.

Idiotic analogy
TA earned a larger fraction more than TDKR than TDKR did from TASM(Not to mention the budget comparison)
So if TDKR destroyed TASM then its safe to assume TA destroyed TDKR

If you want to say that to make yourself feel better, go right ahead with your own idiotic analogy bud

Needless to say, TDKR didn't have 3D and had a horrible tragedy beforehand.

But we are talking about money here

And the same with the money.

What?

TDKR was said to be $250-$300 million, but with tax credits it was only $230 million. TA was $220 million. Only a $10 million difference between the two.

Which is completely alright since its just the first movie,to put matters into prespective,it did better than BB and all the solo Marvel movies

But not critically. To someone who cares only about the money, then sure, but...you're silly if you ONLY care about how much a film makes rather than the positive or negative reactions.

 

[JKKS085]

You have a very good point

So its fair to say that TASM and TDKR got what they were aiming for while The Avengers outdid itself

In my opinion both TASM and TDKR slightly underperformed.

No matter what people say now, given its opening both in north america and overseas (where it managed to beat opening records in some places), given the overall popularity of the character (especially overseas), TASM should have been a 800M + movie. Now it's falling short of that milestone by a little less than 50 million dollars wich is not a big deal but clearly 800 million were within the realms of possibility. Competition with TDKR probably only played a marginal role (at least in north america, China is another matter for instance) but it seems that the movie suffered from an overall middling word of mouth wich didn't help its legs. Maybe it has to do with the movie itself, the retelling of the origin story might have been an issue for some viewers but the fact that Webb is now back on board for the sequel probably means that Sony have reliable indicators highlighting that the GA liked the direction taken by these new series.

TDKR in the other hand could've been a 1,1 billion dollars movie, it's gonna fall short of that mark by less than 20 million dollars (maybe less than 10 in the very end) wich is realistically under what it lost because of the shooting during its first domestic week end only. Anyways, worldwide, the movie broke all records set by 2D movies except for Titanic and the third installement of the LOTR franchise wich is an impressive achievement by any measure. So really no reasons to be dissapointed, at all.

As for The Avengers, yes I think we can pretty much say that it outdid itself though I do agree with Lorus on this, I honestly thought, early this year, that the movie would be a hit but a 800 million hit, certainly not a 1.5 billion hit, and I never expected any competition between Marvel's B-list characters reunion and the juggernauts Spider-Man and Batman are. Looks like the movie clicked with audiences.

 

[©KAW]

Competition with TDKR didn't play a marginal role, it played a huge role, both domestically and overseas. Hell, they were released on the same day in China. SM2 cost more than SM1 and made less domestically and worldwide, and was considered the better film, what happened?

 

[Smegger56]

TASM did as well as I thought for the BO. I was afraid at one point, with all the negativity towards it, it would do less (much less). BUT, it got a really good BO for a reboot and had TDK and TA to contend with.

Here's hoping that, come the sequel, Sony market the hell out of it, really build it up as a MUST SEE EXPERIENCE and that it delivers

 

[JKKS085]

Competition with TDKR didn't play a marginal role, it played a huge role, both domestically and overseas.

Domestically TDKR's competition was less than marginal actually. Do I have to remind you that TASM had 2 full week ends and 17 days to perform before TDKR's release ? TASM made 83% of its final income before TDKR's release (wich you can compare to TDKR's 79% during the same 17 days time frame).

Even with good legs, given its 6 days opening the movie wasn't going to make much more than what it did. If you take TDKR's 79% ratio, wich also implies that the movie should have displayed far better legs early in its run, especially with a stronger first week end, that would mean an extra 13 millions or so domestically. Wich is still far from satisfying, for a Spider-Man movie.

Hell, they were released on the same day in China.

Pretty much EXACTLY what I wrote. It's one of the rare examples of direct competition you'll find though. Otherwise TASM had around 3 weeks almost everywhere else to perform before TDKR's release. Wich is plenty of time to perform without worrying about competition.

SM2 cost more than SM1 and made less domestically and worldwide, and was considered the better film, what happened?

Raimi lost creative control over the franchise, Sony shoved Venom in the sequel's storyline, preventing Raimi from using The Lizard as the main vilain and Spider-Man 3 happened. I'm still baffled to realize that most of you guys completely forgot what SM2's lower BO implied for the rest of the franchise.

 

[LegendAssemble]

Competition with TDKR didn't play a marginal role, it played a huge role, both domestically and overseas. Hell, they were released on the same day in China. SM2 cost more than SM1 and made less domestically and worldwide, and was considered the better film, what happened?

Because contrary to popular belief, sequels don't usually make more money than the original. Especially big name event movies like Spider-Man was. Some people see it that wouldn't have otherwise and don't feel the need to go back a second time. Plus inflation was at the box office wasn't growing as quickly back then. Empire Strikes Back is generally considered a better movie than Star Wars and it made less money at the box office with a bigger budget as well.

Raimi lost creative control over the franchise, Sony shoved Venom in the sequel's storyline, preventing Raimi from using The Lizard as the main vilain and Spider-Man 3 happened. I'm still baffled to realize that most of you guys completely forgot what SM2's lower BO implied for the rest of the franchise.

Actually he wanted to use the vulture, sandman, and harry, but shoving the black suit in changes all the themes so who knows how it would have been.

EDIT: In classic Warner Bros, "Schumacher treatment" the studio didn't the the vulture was marketable enough to use in the movie.

 

[JKKS085]

Actually he wanted to use the vulture, sandman, and harry, but shoving the black suit in changes all the themes so who knows how it would have been.

EDIT: In classic Warner Bros, "Schumacher treatment" the studio didn't the the vulture was marketable enough to use in the movie.

I meant The Vulture of course
Thank you for the correction.