The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 2

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Uhhh...f*^& Holier-than-thou Brock. Go back to New Ways to Live Brock.
Lol, just funnin' dude :woot: One the subject of his portrayal, I was actually hoping to post a question to everyone on how he should be portrayed now, but good news is you have have nothing to fear because I'm fairly certain it'll be a dialed back Brock for these reasons:

-Got massively humbled during the FlashVenom fight, so he was shown he wasn't some invincible hand of God as he was raving on about

-Lost his powers, so he's not going to be healing, thus he's not going to be going on about how his touch is cleansing and such a force for piercing the darkness

-Got to save the city and is enjoying a hero's treatment by the people, so he's got a sense of closure to his powered days and his mission feels complete

-And finally, I trust in Remender's writing skills, UberPreacherBrock is waaay too easy to get over the top and exhaust his welcome, I think at his worst he'll be a bit like he was in return of Anti-Venom. (aka slight hokeyness about justice and such and defeating the darkness, but no sermons heh) Besides, he only got super preacher during Spidey island

This that all leads me to this: With him being a normal guy, but with all the symby experience and all the news we've heard of him being Flash's Yoda, he's naturally going to be in a mentor role similar to how he was analyzing Flash in issue 7 during their fight. With that big ol' smile he showed in the latest issue of Spidey, I imagine him to be significantly lighter than he's been in a long while, but still stern and objective on symby matters.

Overall, that's just me overthinking as usual and such, but as I said at the start, how would you guys like to see Brock now that he'll be with Flash?

I actually wouldn't mind him drawing from some of that humour from the old days (minus the sinister brain eating jokes) though I don't think he should be too light as it seems flash is descending into darkness rather quickly and that'd be some moodwhiplash.
 
Thank goodness the Peter Parker/Carlie Cooper relationship is over...at least for now. I REALLY hope that it's over for good

The first half of Spider-Island just wasn't doing ANYTHING for me and then Slott busts out a series of great Spider-Man stories, without Carlie Cooper, and I went from dropping Amazing Spider-Man to loving it more than ever.

I was a bit disappointed with Ramos through a lot of the books but there were certain parts where he really turned up the heat and he was tapping into that great work that I saw from him in that Revelations miniseries he did for Dark Horse. The Caselli epilogue stuff was FANTASTIC and was wishing that he'd been the artist on the entire Spider-Island event.

There was a LOT of development here at the end and a lot of new things are being set up.

So...

Anybody else thinking that Slott is slowly starting to bring Peter and MJ back together as a couple?

I was a supporter of the ending of the marriage but when they started to really push little miss Carlie Cooper on us it made me ACHE for the Pete/MJ dynamic to come back. If that's where Slott is going with it...truly brilliant writing. However, I think I'm just getting ahead of myself.
 
Yeah, Carlie Cooper really dragged down Spider-Island. But when they got rid of her, it was really, really good.
 
Also, if Stefano got to do the art for the whole arc instead of Ramos, it would have gotten more points at least from me for that alone.
 
Sorry, but I think Ramos's art was part of what made this storyline classic!

I am also happy how they handled...

the removal of the psychic bubble protecting Pete's ID. The magic doesn't really fit the character and part of someone discovering his ID was part of the character from the beginning. So he did technically unmask, but not really, so it breaks the protection without the whole world knowing again. So now old villains can re-learn. Jackal already has, and now that Osborn is back in circulation...
 
I'm a big fan of Ramos, he tries to be vibrant and fun, I respect that, it doesnt work well for every character...so i think these crossover storys tend to bring out the weakness more, but he's an excellent artist for spidey.
 
Sorry, but I think Ramos's art was part of what made this storyline classic!

Don't get me wrong I really enjoy Ramos' work. When I started getting back into Spidey around 2002/2003 I picked up that Return of the Goblin stuff and his art was just brilliant and perfect for Spidey. I liked his stuff in the Spectacular Spider-Man run he had and REALLY thought he did some of his best work on Revelations with Paul Jenkins over at Dark Horse.

There was just a lot of parts where it didn't seem like that old Ramos. However, you have to factor in the book comes out twice a month and it was a huge event book on top of that. Plus Ramos is drawing, practically, the entire Marvel universe and LOTS of spider's and spider people....so...there is that.

There were a LOT of panels though that just made me go, "Wow!".

Ramos was definitely the perfect choice for this type of Spider-Man event. I think even with Marcos Martin it would have been VERY pretty but just not the same type of fun feel that Ramos adds.
 
Granted some of the stuff looked rush. And there was one panel when MJ first gets her powers and she is kicking someone. They put some blur effect on her foot and it took me a while to figure out what was going on. But, all in all, I love his style and I hope Amazing does not lose him!

Oh, and I do like Caselli's stuff quite a bit as well!
 
I used to not really be a fan of Ramos, but when I started to look at it as a more stylized version of JRJR's work, it really sunk in with me, so I'm excited with any Spidey book he does these days.

I just read Spider Island today (I had read part one months back, and have since collected the issues). Personally, I felt it was a bit crammed at some points with somewhat useless plot points considering supporting characters, but it was one of the best stories I've read in a while as a whole. An additional issue would've made it perfect I bet.

On all this Peter and MJ business, I personally think that it's all just good marketing. It's not like we're gonna see them together in the next few issues. I'm pretty sure the people at Marvel know what the readers want. To be honest, if it keeps me coming back and I keep enjoying the ever-changing world of Peter Parker, I can't argue. If I want to see characters together again, or certain things a certain way, I'll read my back issues; keeping giving me new and fresh stories.
 
as much as i enjoy ramos work i did like the epilogue art better, mainly because its more the style i prefer, not that one is better or more suited than the other. just i perfer the more semi-realistic but still comic book related style

its the same reason i love adam hughes, frank cho and terry dodsons works
 
I liked Ramos' art when he was doing Crimson, but that was because those were his characters, so that style established their looks. Ramos just doesn't do a good Peter, Spidey, MJ, etc...There isn't one defined style for Peter as far as art, but Ramos's style is...uhhh, what I'm trying to say is anyone can draw a white guy with brown hair wearing a Spider-Man costume, but if the art doesn't feel Spidey to me, it isn't very Spidey. Ramos's style is too distracting and sharp. His faces are hit or miss. I can either tolerate or I hate it; never like it. Everything looks typically Spidey in these past issues, but nothing really worked for me. Add to that the clutterness of the pages he drew and how rushed everything looked...
 
Shot in the dark wild prediction.

Carlie takes over the Wraith identity and becomes a vigilante.

Called it.
 
Noooo :( I want anyone other than her! Keep Watanabe, she could be a nice new Asian hero who doesn't have a stereotypical shtick. Plus, she did look pretty awesome throughout that little arc. I don't wanna see Carlie muss it up wither her "Pete's the same, they're all the same! I'll one up him! I'll show everyone!" attitude.
 
Without doing some major reposts, I figure I may as well get in some opinions about SPIDER-ISLAND and some of the developments afterward now, before the next issue of ASM comes out in two days. If you want to read reviews, I am fairly certain every issue of SPIDER-ISLAND was reviewed at my Examiner column, via my signature. Review articles are always headlined under, "PICKS OF COMIC BOOK WEEK" and either AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and/or SPIDER-ISLAND will be the subjects. It's likely easier to read all my reviews of each issue there than it is to go back via SHH B/T threads.

Oh, and lots of spoilers.

Overall, I thought SPIDER-ISLAND was very good. Without there being a "DnA" space event to take the spot of Marvel's "mini event". that allowed Dan Slott to fill that void. While some of the spare tie-in's were just that (spare), but the core story in ASM was solid. While it was 8 chapters long, because each issue came out every 2 weeks, it was over in about five months - roughly the same length of time as SIEGE last year, which is perfectly find. While I do prefer the artwork of Stefano Caselli to Humberto Ramos, I do think Ramos did good work here; I find his recent work to be better than his earlier run on Spidey stuff at the start of the decade. I liked how Slott made the Queen - a newer villain from 2004 - into more of a major threat. Many people have criticized the lack of a major female adversary in Spidey's rogues gallery (especially since Black Cat has long been an ally of his), and at least for a few months, Queen (later Spider-Queen) filled that gap. The Jackal being at the forefront was also some great use of him, as he'd mostly taken a siesta since the end of the 90's. There was a fake out with his death, and some may have wanted him to be the big bad instead of Queen, but I see him as Spidey's version of Mr. Sinister - a maniac scientist who is basically immortal because he can endlessly clone himself. While the Avengers did hog a lot of the story, I saw that as fine because it was supposed to be a big event, drawing in the attention of virtually every superhero in New York, along with some spare X-Men. Jackal's Spider-Gang plot was either brilliant or ridiculous, but above all, memorable. The VENOM tie-in's were the most essential, but ASM covered all the key bits anyway, which is how to do it.

I liked two things about SPIDER-ISLAND most of all. Firstly, I liked how it cemented the idea that it's Spider-Man's mind, not his powers, that made him a hero. In a situation where virtually everyone in NYC has spider-powers, or is another superhero, it was Parker's intelligence and imagination that prevailed in the end. Hence, I didn't mind the Avengers having the big "final battle" against Spider-Queen at the end; beating the enemy via violence wasn't the goal for Spidey's subplot. The second thing I liked most of all, and this may seem petty, was that SPIDER-ISLAND never was humorless. Far too many "big events" take themselves so seriously that they border on unintentional satire. They brag about deaths or shocking changes and in the end those tropes are often much ado about nothing. FEAR ITSELF, in contrast, was almost a textbook case of what to do wrong with an event storyline. SPIDER-ISLAND knew when to turn on the drama or suspense, and when to deflate with a one-liner or another comedic bit. Later issues had more of the drama and tenseness while the earlier chapters were a little more "fun", and that's fine. There are other things I liked about SPIDER-ISLAND but if I had to nail down two boons, it'd be these two.

Quibbles? While I know Kaine has appeared in this book before, it did seem as if he has morphed into Ben Reilly into everything but name, via the weak excuse of "all his clone degeneration is cured, which also somehow fixes personality traits". There were too many moments where Peter needed someone else, such as Carlie or MJ, to spoon feed him something obvious. While the "spider-virus" was supposed to be incurable to anything but Eddie Brock's anti-venom, other tie-in material suggests that other sources should have been able to "cure" it to lessor degrees, such as Dr. Strange's magic or even Elixir from the X-Men. While Ramos' artwork is great for showing kinetic action as well as inhuman monsters or beings, there were other times some rush was evident. Towards the end, Carlie claims the giveaway that Peter Parker was more than he seemed was that he was "too good" with spider-powers too quickly, which would make more sense story-wise if Carlie herself hadn't been written as very close to a "natural" as well.

Still, there were other sorts of good points besides the two main ones. The series provided a lot of action as well as no end of cameos, from heroes to villains. It properly utilized continuity details and subplots from either earlier Slott stories, or prior issues of ASM, to weave things together as a whole. Because ASM had built towards this, many of the conclusions felt natural and not arbitrary. And the ending didn't tie up every loose end, to provide ore for more ASM stories. While this was a "mini event", it was supposed to also be an arc of ASM and it never lost sight of that - unlike, say, SHADOWLAND sometimes did in regards to Daredevil. The final bits with MJ were very good, too. I especially liked how the story effectively undid the "spell" of OMIT which kept Peter's identity safe, because I always felt it needlessly eliminated suspense.

Now for Carlie chat. During earlier segments, I thought the story unintentionally depicted Spider-Man as being uncomfortable fighting alongside a lover who had equal power to him. That he was still a bit "macho" and either wanted his girlfriends to either not be as strong or need to be protected by him, instead of battle at his side. Despite the fact that Carlie was an NYPD officer with official training, Peter would usually gripe about protecting her as if she was Zelda from COFFEE @ GO-GO. To a degree this is maybe why a romance with Ms. Marvel could never work - in terms of power level, he'd almost be her sidekick. However, then the ending comes and Peter seems to not mind fighting alongside a super-powered MJ in the slightest. Despite the fact that she has NO training and is just a super model with a decent right hook, there were no whines of being careful or "let me handle that" when they were fighting off spider-monsters together. You could argue the situation was more dire at that point, but I wouldn't. It maybe came down to something MJ said at the start of BIG TIME where she claimed that if Peter didn't love or trust Carlie enough with his secret, he didn't love her. I still think Peter was a bit a moron about it, and handled the situation poorly. Carlie LIKED Spider-Man, and may have handled it fine so long as Peter was the one who broke it to her, rather than her finding out the hard way. She was willing to accept her boss was a masked vigilante, for heaven's sakes. The oddity is that if SPIDER-ISLAND proves anything, it is that Spidey still has his big emotional beats with MJ, just because marriage is taboo, they can't enjoy the perks of it. She still acts as his wife emotionally, but can't enjoy the perks like sex or whatnot. While she is free to date others, Peter is naturally far more of a swinger when he's single while MJ is always off watching in the distance. I could argue it was almost a literal manifestation of the Double Standard (a man as a bachelor is awesome, a woman who is too much of a bachelorette is disapproved of), but that's editorial stuff that is above Slott's level. That was what he inherited, it's up to him to make the best of it. I still think the editorial decision to forbid Spidey from dating superheroines is stupid, as that would distract readers from the revolving doors of Mary Sue's or spare supporting cast gals he thus has to date.

I liked that Eddie Brock had a big moment, although I will miss Anti-Venom; he had an interesting dynamic from what little I saw of him. He looked like a big, scary monster, but he was so eager to BE either a big scary monster or accepted as a vigilante despite the fact that he was insane or over-eager made him kind of adorable. It reminded me of Brock's roots as a stalker. However, he is set to join the cast of VENOM and mentor Flash Thompson, which looks fun.

As for Kaine, he is obviously going to be SCARLET SPIDER, as confirmed by POINT ONE #1 as well as Spidey editor Steve Wacker:

Steve Wacker said:
but there are no plans for Ben Reilly. My belief is that his story was told completely during the 100+ issues of the “Clone Sage” 15 years ago. Bringing him back just to appease a few fans doesn’t seem to be doing any service to that character. He had a complete, highly emotional and final journey and it’s better to leave that story told.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=35432

Basically, Kaine will be Spider-Man, only more angst ridden, more "edgy", more bearded, and set in the south. I am not convinced there is a place for him, but I'll give Chris Yost and Ryan Stegman a chance to convince me. I wasn't initially sold on Flash Thompson as VENOM, but I haven't regretted that one.
 
One thing that I found odd thinking about things a bit: Peter Parker makes a suit that can make him invisible, soundless and be immune to sonics. Why wouldn't you wear this ALL THE TIME? Is there a situation where being invisible and making no sound would be a negative? Is there a situation where wearing the blue and reds or his FF costume helps matters? Wouldn't a super stealth spider-man on the FF and avengers be something much better?
 
I really agree with you about Kaine. His personality really did one GIANT 180 and some of the dialogue really suggests they are trying to take him into a "Ben Reilly" type personality. I got a HUGE Ben/Peter vibe in their interactions in # 672 and 673. It really bothered me as a fan of Kaine but as a fan of the Clone Saga and Ben Reilly it was REALLY cool to see at the same time. So, I'm torn in that area.

They could easily explain that the Anti-Venom bath he took tweaked his personality as well as taking care of his degeneration scars. These are comics after all.

I'm just wondering if they'll still incorporate the extra power that Kaine had with the "visions" he had in the Clone Saga of the 90's.

But definitely agree 100 percent about Kaine. Also looking forward to see what Yost does with the story and how he'll handle the Kaine character. Also glad that they are posting him in the south to sort of spread the Marvel heroes out in the United States...
 
One thing that I found odd thinking about things a bit: Peter Parker makes a suit that can make him invisible, soundless and be immune to sonics. Why wouldn't you wear this ALL THE TIME? Is there a situation where being invisible and making no sound would be a negative? Is there a situation where wearing the blue and reds or his FF costume helps matters? Wouldn't a super stealth spider-man on the FF and avengers be something much better?

Technically, Kaine took the suit, so Peter would have to make a new one.

Spider-Man doesn't wear that suit all the time for the same reason Batman doesn't wear his bulky suits of armor that he can bust out every time he needs to fight Darkseid or something; plot convenience.

I really agree with you about Kaine. His personality really did one GIANT 180 and some of the dialogue really suggests they are trying to take him into a "Ben Reilly" type personality. I got a HUGE Ben/Peter vibe in their interactions in # 672 and 673. It really bothered me as a fan of Kaine but as a fan of the Clone Saga and Ben Reilly it was REALLY cool to see at the same time. So, I'm torn in that area.

They could easily explain that the Anti-Venom bath he took tweaked his personality as well as taking care of his degeneration scars. These are comics after all.

I'm just wondering if they'll still incorporate the extra power that Kaine had with the "visions" he had in the Clone Saga of the 90's.

But definitely agree 100 percent about Kaine. Also looking forward to see what Yost does with the story and how he'll handle the Kaine character. Also glad that they are posting him in the south to sort of spread the Marvel heroes out in the United States...

In the POINT ONE story, Kaine seems to specifically mention that his "visions" are gone, and he has to adjust to not knowing things in advance. The anti-venom cured his cellular degeneration and left him with roughly the same powers as Spider-Man. While he has the "stingers" from earlier eras, I'm not sure if he has a spider-sense.

I suppose if I wanted a no-prize, you could claim that since Kaine was a clone of Spider-Man, and he was breaking down due to being impure, that fixing those physical impurities and thus his DNA would cause him to act more like Peter, which was Ben's schtick. However, even that is hokey. Marvel is walking a hypocritical tightrope here. The company wants us to believe that clones are real dynamic characters when it wants us to buy X-23 as a solo heroine and not just a piece of Wolverine that fell off. Yet at other junctions, clone characters appear interchangeable. The company has shamelessly shifted Kaine into being very much like Reilly, to basically have him back without having to revive him. The only major difference between Kaine and Reilly in terms of character details is that Kaine still has a history of being a violent killer vigilante (who was once locked up for murders) which he is trying to flee from and make up for. That, and brown hair, and a beard.

Over in MAGNETO: NOT A HERO, the clone of Magneto, Joseph, is apparently back and acting like Obvious Villain Magneto, which is a complete 180 from his prior depictions too.

So, Marvel is fine with utilizing clones as interchangeable while not wanting fans to dismiss them as such to buy their titles. Will having their cake and eating it too work out into sales?
 
Technically, Kaine took the suit, so Peter would have to make a new one.

Spider-Man doesn't wear that suit all the time for the same reason Batman doesn't wear his bulky suits of armor that he can bust out every time he needs to fight Darkseid or something; plot convenience.

I guess what I was saying is once he made it why would he ever not use it?

I can kinda get those super armor suits as then batman would have to struggle not to kill people, but the stealth suit thing? There's just no reason not to have it on all the time. Yeah I get plot convenience but for a guy that just saved the whole city with his mind he's really not that sharp. That suit alone without any spider powers would make an average guy pretty damn dangerous and more useful than many people with superpowers.
 
Hah! Especially during when he lost his Spider-Sense. I mean, if he really needed to compensate for it, why not just stay invisible all the time?
 
I loved Marvel's brain fart they have been having for the past week or so. They kept advertising on facebook and their own website that ASM676 was coming out today when it was 674.
 
It wasn't one typo...they let it go on for a while with people pointing it out like crazy.
 
Still don't think its a big deal. Its not like they put Hobgoblin killed Gwen Stacy instead of the Green Goblin.
 
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