Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - - - - - Part 51

[The Infernal]

I think people are taking Whedon's words to much to heart and making too much out of it. Plus I think it could have very easily made AoU a lesser film if Whedon was left unchecked. I love AoU and think it's a great film, but I couldn't help but feel that a lot of things are more Whedon than Avengers. Especially with Ultron, who I loved him having a personality and thought Spader was great, but to me his personality a lot of the time and dialogue was very Whedon.

 

[thanos1990]

James Gunn Writes Lengthy Reply To Recent Joss Whedon Controversy



Imagine being a guy, like Joss Whedon, who has committed his life to fandom and to creating the best characters he possibly can, characters he loves, and has spent two years of his life working on a movie, and then has to wake up to this **** on Twitter. Yes, I know - Age of Ultron has an "A" Cinemascore, and far and away most people loved it. But the angry contingent of fandom is getting more aggressive all the time, and it's difficult to block out as a person in the public eye.
My plea to all of you - and this is nothing new - is that we all try to be a little kinder, on the Internet and elsewhere. And, honestly, that includes being kind to the people who are tweeting this nonsense. I don't believe you can tweet about wanting to find a movie director and "curbstomp" him and be a happy person. That person's statement might make you a little angry - that makes me angry too. But thank God the circumstances of my life and your life didn't lead us to being the person that has the need to anonymously tweet that to someone on the Internet. And, as much as we may want to respond with vitriol to these tweets, I think that just creates more insanity.
As a young person I was very angry, and it's something I have worked on, both personally and through years of therapy. And if I can say one truth about anger, it is that anger is almost never anger. Anger - especially aggressive and abusive anger - is a way to deal with feeling insecure, sad, hurt, vulnerable, powerless, fearful, or confused. Those feelings, for many of us, are a lot more difficult to deal with and acknowledge than anger. Anger makes us feel "right". And powerful. But it also usually exacerbates whatever the underlying, more uncomfortable feeling is.
A couple months ago someone on Twitter wrote me that something one of my characters said in my movie hurt him. I've gotten hundreds of tweets from people angry about moments in my films over the years, and I just ignore them, or get angry in return. But that one tweet affected me profoundly. The last thing I want to do with my work is hurt someone, especially someone who already feels disenfranchised. That made me think about what I write and what I put in my films, and I will be more thoughtful about situations like it in the future. That is, one honest and vulnerable tweet affected more change in me than hundreds of angry ones.
So, again, it's easy to be outraged by these tweets. But whatever these angry tweeters are in need of, I don't think it's more anger and more rage thrown back at them on Twitter. I actually think that's what they're seeking. But what they need is something different. Compassion, maybe? A kind request for boundaries? I don't know. Maybe you guys have some ideas.
And by the way - Yes, I know there are real issues at play here. But, again, I don't think the way to affect change is through rage. That is just going to increase whatever divide you're experiencing in the first place. I believe that there are a handful of truly evil, awful human beings out there. But the majority of us on all sides of an issue think we're doing the right thing and are doing the best we can. If we assume that of each other, it makes life a lot easier.
Love you all,
james

 

[CGHulk]

Joss Whedon Calls “Horse*****” On Reports He Left Twitter Because Of Militant Feminists

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/joss-whedon-on-leaving-twitter#.robG2E4J8

WARNING: The actual word horse***** is used on that site!

 

[Link]

Gunn is on point. His words go for all fandoms and all studios. The insane fanboy/girl rage that goes into death threats and harassing just shouldn't be tolerated in any way. The fan culture can be really aggressive, and i think that has to change.

 

[Just_Human]

Twitter is a ****** platform

 

[Just_Human]

I think people are taking Whedon's words to much to heart and making too much out of it. Plus I think it could have very easily made AoU a lesser film if Whedon was left unchecked. I love AoU and think it's a great film, but I couldn't help but feel that a lot of things are more Whedon than Avengers. Especially with Ultron, who I loved him having a personality and thought Spader was great, but to me his personality a lot of the time and dialogue was very Whedon.

This tbh

 

[InCali]

The main disagreements Whedon had with Marvel are that he wanted both the farm and the cave scenes, and Marvel asked him to pick one. I think having both will drag the movie longer needlessly.

Also

Spoiler

Whedon wanted both Capt. Marvel and Spidey at the end, but for various reasons it couldn't be done, such as the deal with Sony. Marvel wanted QS to live, but they let Whedon kill him off.

I completely disagree that this movie would have dragged with both the cave and farm scenes. I say that because, if anything, we needed some down time (like the Farm which I thought was great). The movie blew by and adding another 10, 15, or 20 minutes would have just been that much more fun for me. In any case, I don't think someone can say it would have caused the movie to drag longer needlessly because no one has seen the movie Joss wanted.

 

[TheVision]

Joss didnt leave because of angry militant feminists, he left to focus on his life/work. So that whole thing is BS according to him. Im very happy thats the case but sad that hes not on Twitter anymore.

 

[InCali]

Agreed. I said this on another thread but I watched Movie Bob's review, and I thought he hit the nail on the head. Everyone knows the Godfather as one of the all time classic movies that received tons of notoriety, but fans of that series think that the Godfather Part 2 was the better story (including me). And that's how it is with Avengers Age of Ultron.

Everyone is going to remember Avengers as the event film of the 2010's. It's going to hold the records for quite some time, and everyone remembers the jokes, I still see people walking around with Shawarma tee shirts. It was a cultural phenomenon.

But Age of Ultron is a deeper, more representative film of the Avengers. There was so much SHIELD stuff in A1 that it sort of overshadowed the Avengers in a way. SHIELD was never a big part of Avengers in the comics. They'd come along every so often, but it was much more about the team. That's what we get in this movie.

 

[Silvermoon]

Joss Whedon Calls “Horse*****” On Reports He Left Twitter Because Of Militant Feminists

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/joss-whedon-on-leaving-twitter#.robG2E4J8

WARNING: The actual word horse***** is used on that site!

I figured it was probably just the 'needing to take a break' - as I said, he's done it before.

Twitter is a ****** platform

Eh.... twitter is like anywhere else on the internet (message boards, other social media sites, etc...), there's pros and cons to it, there can be positive and negative experiences to it, it all depends on who you associate with (follow/let follow you/etc...). I've made some really great friends on twitter, and discovered quite a few authors, as well, that I might not have found otherwise.

 

[TheVision]

Age of Ultron for Joss is kinda like if QT had made Pulp Fiction 2. its very tough to follow up such a mass phenomenon so its almost guaranteed if you do something different it wont be met with the same reaction. Its still a great, interesting film and will be one to discuss for a long time I think.

 

[Flint Marko]

You think Feige is the #1 creative force in this franchise? He's a producer, dude. He couldn't direct a trailer for Avengers.

Favreau, Whedon, Gunn, The Russos... every filmmaker who gave it his all to adapt these Marvel characters is #1. Not some producer who drove off Norton, Favreau Jenkins, Wright and now Whedon.

People forget Feige is the #1 suit at Marvel Studios. When Whedon says "they had me so beaten down" he means Feige and co.

You really seem to want to believe that Marvel is the big bad guy that stifles creative talent. You'd think their undeniable success would speak for itself and make it clear that, like Spider-fan said, they have a checklist of things they'd like accomplished each film and that's it. More times than not the people they work with come out saying what a pleasant experience they had. But I know you are going to ignore it to continue to believe in this idea that they are creative and artistic poison, and that's fine, but you'd think by now, with hit after hit under their belt, you'd understand their process.

 

[hafizbat]

I wouldn't even bother trying to reason with people with such ignorant opinions. Nothing you say will change his mind if he can't see what is right in front of him.

Kevin Feige is far more important than any one director or "artist", no matter how talented they are. The fact that people actually trash him rather than be grateful is so entitled and misguided it's tragic.

WB/DC wishes they could have a Kevin Feige right now. Go ask Sony how life is with Avi Arad.There would not be a cinematic Marvel universe if it wasn't for these "big bad suits". It's as simple as that. We should be extremely grateful that Feige is as big a fan as any of us.

I'm getting real tired with all the stupid opinions I've been seeing the past few days. I guess it's inevitable in this field.

 

[Link]

He mentioned Disney in that article. How does it really work with these movies? How much can Disney meddle in to Marvel affairs? The decision to go all out with the movies and change the comics to match them probably came from Disney rather than a in-house decision.

 

[Picard Stewart]

You really seem to want to believe that Marvel is the big bad guy that stifles creative talent. You'd think their undeniable success would speak for itself and make it clear that, like Spider-fan said, they have a checklist of things they'd like accomplished each film and that's it. More times than not the people they work with come out saying what a pleasant experience they had. But I know you are going to ignore it to continue to believe in this idea that they are creative and artistic poison, and that's fine, but you'd think by now, with hit after hit under their belt, you'd understand their process.

Hit after hit? This is the fifth time the material was compromised by their meddling. First it was TIH, then IM2, then Thor 2, then AOU and without Wright I'm expecting Ant-Man to be another Thor 2.

They all make money, but my concern is about quality. I can't support a studio that compromises quality for a "checklist".

Marvel: "James, we need that Thanos scene in there."
Gunn: "Yeah, but it kinda doesn't fit and it weakens Ronan."
Marvel: "Doesn't matter. We need that scene in there."
Gunn: "Can't we just hint that he's working for Thanos?"
Marvel: "No."

^sounds like a real pleasant experience for Gunn.

 

[hafizbat]

Yeah, cuz every problem with Marvel is because of the execs

I'm sure if they gave every director total control, every MCU movie would have been a masterpiece. Because artists.

 

[Picard Stewart]

I wouldn't even bother trying to reason with people with such ignorant opinions. Nothing you say will change his mind if he can't see what is right in front of him.

Kevin Feige is far more important than any one director or "artist", no matter how talented they are. The fact that people actually trash him rather than be grateful is so entitled and misguided it's tragic.

WB/DC wishes they could have a Kevin Feige right now. Go ask Sony how life is with Avi Arad.There would not be a cinematic Marvel universe if it wasn't for these "big bad suits". It's as simple as that. We should be extremely grateful that Feige is as big a fan as any of us.

I'm getting real tired with all the stupid opinions I've been seeing the past few days. I guess it's inevitable in this field.

Dude, your love for a typical Hollywood producer and hate for true artists/auteurs is appalling.

Its a mentality like this that gave birth to the Transformers series, which by the way is a series Feige is actually a fan of.

Its Feige who should be grateful that he's a rich man today because of the talents of several great filmmakers.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I'm not too fond of twitter to be honest.

 

[Flint Marko]

Hit after hit? This is the fifth time the material was compromised by their meddling. First it was TIH, then IM2, then Thor 2, then AOU and without Wright I'm expecting Ant-Man to be another Thor 2.

They all make money, but my concern is about quality. I can't support a studio that compromises quality for a "checklist".

Marvel: "James, we need that Thanos scene in there."
Gunn: "Yeah, but it kinda doesn't fit and it weakens Ronan."
Marvel: "Doesn't matter. We need that scene in there."
Gunn: "Can't we just hint that he's working for Thanos?"
Marvel: "No."

^sounds like a real pleasant experience for Gunn.

Funny how Gunn came back with no hesitation? Geez, what an unpleasant experience
It's also funny how, despite the creative differences that Marvel has had in the past, Favreau and Whedon still have a ton of good things to say about the studio and are open to work with them again. I guess that "meddling" wasn't all that compromising, especially when every film they have made has been well received by critics and audiences alike?
If you don't like this process (a process that is clearly working for them in not only making an unholy amount of money but endearing both audiences and critics towards them), that's fine. You have other studios exploring other options, like WB/DC who is still trying to get their "film-maker driven universe" off the ground, and Fox, who just ignores continuity for the sake of it and doesn't bother keeping things straight from movie to movie. Personally I'd rather have the universe kept straight and cohesive, and that takes a lot of work and requires some sacrifice but if all it comes down to is the Marvel brass forcing Joss to put one scene, just one scene in the movie, then that's something I can live with.
And again, you act as if no other studio meddles. News flash, literally every movie studio on the planet does this to most bid budget productions.

Dude, your love for a typical Hollywood producer and hate for true artists/auteurs is appalling.

Its a mentality like this that gave birth to the Transformers series, which by the way is a series Feige is actually a fan of.

Its Feige who should be grateful that he's a rich man today because of the talents of several great filmmakers.

Lol. He "hates true artists"? This is what we call a "straw-man" argument, kids, and it's how you know someone is grasping at straws.

 

[hafizbat]

Dude, your love for a typical Hollywood producer and hate for true artists/auteurs is appalling.

This is exactly the type of stuff I'm talking about.

 

[take3]

Mark has something to say:

 

[Picard Stewart]

Funny how Gunn came back with no hesitation? Geez, what an unpleasant experience
It's also funny how, despite the creative differences that Marvel has had in the past, Favreau and Whedon still have a ton of good things to say about the studio and are open to work with them again. I guess that "meddling" wasn't all that compromising, especially when every film they have made has been well received by critics and audiences alike?
If you don't like this process (a process that is clearly working for them in not only making an unholy amount of money but endearing both audiences and critics towards them), that's fine. You have other studios exploring other options, like WB/DC who is still trying to get their "film-maker driven universe" off the ground, and Fox, who just ignores continuity for the sake of it and doesn't bother keeping things straight from movie to movie. Personally I'd rather have the universe kept straight and cohesive, and that takes a lot of work and requires some sacrifice but if all it comes down to is the Marvel brass forcing Joss to put one scene, just one scene in the movie, then that's something I can live with.
And again, you act as if no other studio meddles. News flash, literally every movie studio on the planet does this to most bid budget productions.



Lol. He "hates true artists"? This is what we call a "straw-man" argument, kids, and it's how you know someone is grasping at straws.

Tell all of this to Edgar Wright. See if he replies with a ton of good things to say about the studio and reveals he's open to work with them again. After that hit up Patty Jenkins. And after that hit up Whedon.

"The dreams were not an executive favorite. The dreams, the farmhouse, these were things I fought to keep. With the cave it really turned into...they pointed a gun at the farm's head and said give us the cave or we'll take out the farm. In a civilized way. You know, I respect these guys, they're "artists". But you know, that's when it got really unpleasant. There was a point where there was to be no cave and Thor was gonna leave and come back and say "oh yeah, I figured some stuff out..." and I was so beaten down at that point that I was like "sure...okay. What movie is this?"

^sounds like Whedon has nothing but good things to say about the studio, eh? I'm sure he can't wait to work with them again.

 

[Flint Marko]

Tell all of this to Edgar Wright. See if he replies with a ton of good things to say about the studio and reveals he's open to work with them again. After that hit up Patty Jenkins. And after that hit up Whedon.

"The dreams were not an executive favorite. The dreams, the farmhouse, these were things I fought to keep. With the cave it really turned into...they pointed a gun at the farm's head and said give us the cave or we'll take out the farm. In a civilized way. You know, I respect these guys, they're "artists". But you know, that's when it got really unpleasant. There was a point where there was to be no cave and Thor was gonna leave and come back and say "oh yeah, I figured some stuff out..." and I was so beaten down at that point that I was like "sure...okay. What movie is this?"

^sounds like Whedon has nothing but good things to say about the studio, eh? I'm sure he can't wait to work with them again.

He's said before he'd do consultant stuff with them again. There is obviously some tension between the two, that much is undeniable at this point, but he's made it clear that he respects those guys and he'll work with them in the future.
If you're going to cling to two or three examples out of twelve now and say, "Marvel meddling ruins their movies!" you're going to need to have more concrete, problematic examples than a handful of directors that walked away from working with them.
And again, once we see other studios kick it into high gear and get their universes started, we will be seeing more of the same. It appears DC/WB is already ruffling some feathers with their WW movie. I guess it's inescapable when dealing with movie studios in charge of valuable IP's? And as long as you follow a handful of orders (add literally one scene in your movie, Whedon & Gunn), you can make the movie you want to make?
Nah, what am I saying. It's all big bad Marvel's fault! They're ruining things for the true artists!!

 

[Picard Stewart]

Hopefully Whedon's airing of grievances empowers The Russos, Derrickson and Gunn to stand up to the suits in the future. Anything to prevent this again.

 

[hafizbat]

Someone's trollin.