The Avengers The Avengers Critics Reviews Thread - Part 2

[Raiden]

Since the US embargo is lifting on 5/2, we'll be getting alot more reviews on RT in the next few days. We'll get a better sense what kind of rating TA will end up getting.

 

[marcvader]

Thought the embargo had already lifted.

 

[flickchick85]

Great review!

Thanks!

And wow at that Jeff Wells review. I don't normally get annoyed at the negative reviews, but when the guy flat-out states that he hates superhero movies and that he can't see past RDJ's political leanings, he proves himself to be completely unprofessional.

 

[parkerpete]

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!!

Honestly, I lean right, and it's kind of cool that RDJ is Republican. You know what? Sam Jackson isn't. MOST of Hollywood isn't. If you boycott everyone who doesn't share your opinion, then you need to live in a cabin in the woods (Also from Joss Whedon) and leave the world alone.

Doesn't warrant a review....his review doesn't warrant any further acknowledgement from me. How's that?!

This. I'm very left-leaning, and I don't give a rat's patoot if RDJ is a conservative. He wasn't hired to represent me in Congress, he was hired to bring Tony Stark to life onscreen. All I care about is how well he does THAT job.

It is possible his politics may have played a role in the mess that was IRON MAN 2, since a lot of that movie seemed to be improvised and relied a lot on his persona to fill gaps in the script. I re-watched IM2 in anticipation of THE AVENGERS, and did notice that a lot of the movie revolves around celebrations of uninhibited wealth, and the only sliver of plot is provided by the spectacle of one 'cool' uber-capitalist out-doing an 'uncool' uber-capitalist, with none of the empathy towards oppressed people that made Stark's conversion in the first movie seem so emotionally urgent.

You could argue that the first movie is just as 'Republican' as the second, but at least it's Republican in the sense that it is celebrates a hawkish desire to intercede in world affairs on behalf of the powerless, instead of just being two hours of groupies, cars, designer sunglasses, fancy real estate and hot gadgets. If Iron Man 1 is a 'Republican' movie, I can appreciate the style and substance with which it backs up its worldview.

Same goes for the 'Incredibles'. I HATE Ayn Rand with a passion, and I think there is a Randian subtext to some of the attitudes expressed in that movie. But it's such a well-crafted and heartfelt celebration of superheroics that one can't dismiss its value. On the contrary, I think it's still probably the best Super-Hero Movie yet made.

(Of course, I'm hoping that changes on Friday.)

 

[marcvader]

This. I'm very left-leaning, and I don't give a rat's patoot if RDJ is a conservative. He wasn't hired to represent me in Congress, he was hired to bring Tony Stark to life onscreen. All I care about is how well he does THAT job.

It is possible his politics may have played a role in the mess that was IRON MAN 2, since a lot of that movie seemed to be improvised and relied a lot on his persona to fill gaps in the script. I re-watched IM2 in anticipation of THE AVENGERS, and did notice that a lot of the movie revolves around celebrations of uninhibited wealth, and the only sliver of plot is provided by the spectacle of one 'cool' uber-capitalist out-doing an 'uncool' uber-capitalist, with none of the empathy towards oppressed people that made Stark's conversion in the first movie seem so emotionally urgent.

You could argue that the first movie is just as 'Republican' as the second, but at least it's Republican in the sense that it is celebrates a hawkish desire to intercede in world affairs on behalf of the powerless, instead of just being two hours of groupies, cars, designer sunglasses, fancy real estate and hot gadgets. If Iron Man 1 is a 'Republican' movie, I can appreciate the style and substance with which it backs up its worldview.

Same goes for the 'Incredibles'. I HATE Ayn Rand with a passion, and I think there is a Randian subtext to some of the attitudes expressed in that movie. But it's such a well-crafted and heartfelt celebration of superheroics that one cant' dismiss it. On the contrary, I think it's still probably the best Super-Hero Movie yet made.

(Of course, I'm hoping that changes on Friday.)

Please tell me your kidding.

 

[parkerpete]

Please tell me your kidding.

Nope.

I don't mean to get all over-analytical, just saying that there are political undercurrents in all of these movies if you look for them. There are political undercurrents in EVERYTHING if you want to look for them.

But I'm just as serious when I say that I'm not looking to be politically offended, unless the message of the movie seems particularly odious, or the politics undermine good character work and story.

Is that so crazy?

 

[The Infernal]

Nope.

I don't mean to get all over-analytical, just saying that there are political undercurrents in all of these movies if you look for them. There are political undercurrents in EVERYTHING if you want to look for them.

But I'm just as serious when I say that I'm not looking to be politically offended, unless the message of the movie seems particularly odious, or the politics undermine good character work and story.

It sounds more like reader application than author's intent with what you said.

Is that so crazy?

The post vader quoted makes think probably.

 

[Tony Stark]

He wasn't private with it in Iron Man 2. There's a very telling line in the first act that struck me as always odd, considering it had no bearing in the conversation he and Pepper were having....

You mean a line in the movie? Or something he said in public? I'm just saying RDJ isn't like Sean Penn is on the left, or Jon Voight is on the right. To my knowledge he doesn't go out and give speeches or attend rallies, etc.

RDJ is the conservative equivalent of Harrison Ford on the left. Both guys are very private about their politics, but do have strong beliefs that come out from time to time.

I mean for goodness sake Mark Ruffalo has been pretty vocal about 9/11 being a government cover up and yet he gets along great with Downey and this is their second movie together.

 

[El Payaso]

This. I'm very left-leaning, and I don't give a rat's patoot if RDJ is a conservative. He wasn't hired to represent me in Congress, he was hired to bring Tony Stark to life onscreen. All I care about is how well he does THAT job.

It is possible his politics may have played a role in the mess that was IRON MAN 2, since a lot of that movie seemed to be improvised and relied a lot on his persona to fill gaps in the script. I re-watched IM2 in anticipation of THE AVENGERS, and did notice that a lot of the movie revolves around celebrations of uninhibited wealth, and the only sliver of plot is provided by the spectacle of one 'cool' uber-capitalist out-doing an 'uncool' uber-capitalist, with none of the empathy towards oppressed people that made Stark's conversion in the first movie seem so emotionally urgent.

You could argue that the first movie is just as 'Republican' as the second, but at least it's Republican in the sense that it is celebrates a hawkish desire to intercede in world affairs on behalf of the powerless, instead of just being two hours of groupies, cars, designer sunglasses, fancy real estate and hot gadgets. If Iron Man 1 is a 'Republican' movie, I can appreciate the style and substance with which it backs up its worldview.

Well, Tony Stark
makes you feel
he's a cool Republican
with a heart of steel.

 

[peterparker0077]

He wasn't private with it in Iron Man 2. There's a very telling line in the first act that struck me as always odd, considering it had no bearing in the conversation he and Pepper were having....

I thought it had perfect bearing on their conversation and his issues at the time, and what he was going through.

 

[parkerpete]

It sounds more like reader application than author's intent with what you said.

The post vader quoted makes think probably.

Really, you think that it's impossible for subtext to exist within movies, occasionally as an unintentional result of a filmmaker's biases and opinions?

Hey, if someone told me they thought film theory was a dumb waste of time, I'd probably say 'fair enough'. But I don't think it's ridiculous to argue that there's subtext to a movie. It's kinda fun, as long as no one gets hurt.

Relax, I'm still pretty much just waiting to see Hulk fight Thor like the rest of you.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Since the US embargo is lifting on 5/2, we'll be getting alot more reviews on RT in the next few days. We'll get a better sense what kind of rating TA will end up getting.

How did Roeper get his review out if the US has an embargo on reviews?

 

[flickchick85]

I think it's one of those cases where there's been an unspoken dissolution of the embargo that happens when a few brave souls break it with their positive reviews, and so more people break it, and there's no retaliation because the studio is happy with the reviews on the whole (as it's not like they can just go after the few who posted negative reviews).

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Stark always struck me as a libertarian type, not a Republican. But I guess people see what they want to see in these characters, which is actually kind of a complement to the actor/writers.

 

[T"Challa]

14/14 for top critics..good stuff

 

[Tony Stark]

I wonder if Ebert is going to pull another "Thor" with this one. Granted it's only Tuesday, but I know this guy has a love hate relationship with comicbook movies.

 

[The Infernal]

Really, you think that it's impossible for subtext to exist within movies, occasionally as an unintentional result of a filmmaker's biases and opinions?

Hey, if someone told me they thought film theory was a dumb waste of time, I'd probably say 'fair enough'. But I don't think it's ridiculous to argue that there's subtext to a movie. It's kinda fun, as long as no one gets hurt.

Relax, I'm still pretty much just waiting to see Hulk fight Thor like the rest of you.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm getting at. lol

What I'm saying is that you seem to be mistaking application for intent. Just because that's what you see doesn't mean that's what the film makers were going for. It being applicable in your mind doesn't equate to it actually being there.

 

[flickchick85]

Ok, this excerpt from Newsday's otherwise glowing review is cracking me up:

With its classically hokey plot involving an alien army and a power cube called the Tesseract (Zak Penn, of Syfy's "Alphas," co-wrote)

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/movies/marvel-s-the-avengers-is-marvelous-1.3692708

It's like he chose that moment to mention Zak Penn to insinuate that the one weakness of the movie is Penn's fault, lol. I mean, I don't like Penn at all, and I give him zero credit for this movie, but that's a low blow.

 

[mc7791]

I wonder if Ebert is going to pull another "Thor" with this one. Granted it's only Tuesday, but I know this guy has a love hate relationship with comicbook movies.

yeah I wonder that myself

 

[marcvader]

Depends what side of the bed he gets up that morning.

 

[J.Howlett]

I thought it had perfect bearing on their conversation and his issues at the time, and what he was going through.

That was pure ad lib on Doweny's part. I'm not knocking him for being right leaning but it just felt out of place, considering the natural change of Stark from the first picture to the second picture.

 

[Xeno]

14/14 for top critics..good stuff

That's amazing. It will probably change as people like the ever-erratic Ebert and some of the snobbier critics weigh in, of course.


Glad to see that Zacharek got dropped from the Top Critics list. That must have happened after she left Salon. Speaking of which, I'm waiting to see what Andrew O'Hehir of Salon has to say. He still has that Top Critic designation and his reviews are usually interesting, if nothing else.

 

[warcam]

The Village Voice likes it....I think.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-05...superegos-in-joss-whedon-s-all-star-avengers/

 

[peterparker0077]

That was pure ad lib on Doweny's part. I'm not knocking him for being right leaning but it just felt out of place, considering the natural change of Stark from the first picture to the second picture.

As one other poster mentioned above, I see Stark as libertarian. In that manner, the line fits perfectly from what happened in the first film and his dealings with the senator (who's politics is unknown) in the second, and everything else going on in his life IMHO.

 

[flickchick85]

The Village Voice likes it....I think.
http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-05...superegos-in-joss-whedon-s-all-star-avengers/

Doesn't seem like it to me.