The Avengers The Avengers Critics Reviews Thread - Part 2

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Now, that's something you don't hear every day.

I've heard it plenty. Here are a couple of great articles on what's wrong with modern action scenes, that both explain why Bay's action is awful:

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2010/09/15/bond-vs-chan-jackie-shows-how-its-done/

http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2...ks-with-special-guest-tom-townend-day-3-of-3/

And here's a less explanatory/more snarky one that at least backs up the idea that people have a problem with Bay's action scenes (as they should):

http://badassdigest.com/2012/04/10/michael-bay-may-i-buy-you-a-ticket-to-the-raid
 
From 69 Now at 73 with 9 reviews
http://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-avengers-2012



Where do you think it will end up after 40 reviews?

I think think its going to end up between 76-85 in the range of some of the best CBM of all time (Spider-man 2 83, Ironman 79, The Dark Knight 82, A history of Violence 81)
 
Yeah, metascores can be hard to predict. I'll go with 77 -- just behind Iron Man.
 
Bay's effects are great visually/sonically but he seems to completely forget where everyone is halfway through his scenes! They really don't make sense. Avengers could have used his abilities though on [BLACKOUT]military scenes which were surprisingly lacking given that this is supposed to be an alien invasion.[/BLACKOUT]
 
SO, have Alexei Belyakov and the other guy [who's name escapes me at this point] seen the movie yet?
 
I'd say Michael Bay excels at 'Spectacle' over 'Action'.
But for the sake of simplification when talking about his films with some of my non-cinephile friends, I just say, "you know it'll at least have a lot of 'action'."
The best way I can describe most, (if not outright all 3) of his TF movies is:
The TV show 'Cops' filming as Sam runs towards/away from the metal humping onscreen.
 
where michael bay fails is he has no idea who to make characters engaging. if you aren't engaged by the characters when the action kicks in you wont care if the characters live or die and if you don't care if the characters die you will be BORED by the action.

imho the movie (avengers) drags in the middle but you absolutely need those character moments
 
The Rock and Transformers are good films

I don't care what anyone says because I have seen more films than you :oldrazz:
 
where michael bay fails is he has no idea who to make characters engaging. if you aren't engaged by the characters when the action kicks in you wont care if the characters live or die and if you don't care if the characters die you will be BORED by the action.

imho the movie (avengers) drags in the middle but you absolutely need those character moments

Exactly. I'm a Transformers fan, but after he killed some of the Autobots in DOTM like Ironhide, I really couldn't care less because there's no emotional attachment with any of the Autobots, with exception to Bumblebee because he's the only one that really fleshed out thanks to his relationship with Sam. I'm sorry to say that Optimus Prime didn't really do it for me either, even though he was powered to the umteenth level thanks to Bay, and the human characters were just one-dimensional drones. Bay can get the spectacles down well, but his action scenes are full of frentic camera movements and involves characters that just set pieces, so in the end after the excitement wore off there wasn't much there upon repeated viewing. I'm glad Whedon recognized this and impued the Avengers with alot more development and characterization.
 
Imma give Bay credit where it's due. The man can shoot action in my opinion his problem lies in the scripts and cookie cutter characters, It's his formula. The downside is his movies have been very successful to the point where he has a ton power and clout in Hollywood. Like it or not this man can probably get any project he wants done and even pitch himself to do projects like a JLA film. You guys may not like it but 10 bucks says that Bay could approach WB with interest in doing a JLA film and he'd get it, easily.
 
First off, this movie right now is the most anticipated thing in my life. I even set up a 5 day vacation for it with my family.

Now, I'm just throwing my two cents at all of the accolades towards The Avengers from the critics. I can't help but see that they are just riding on that Joss Whedon is a directing God at the moment, and if someone, say like Michael Bay, had his name plastered on the exact same film, the movie would have been bashed like crazy. I'm just saying..........


Have you even seen The Avengers yet? Because the only way what you wrote makes any sense at all if if you haven't.


I have seen all of the Transformer movies, several other Bay films and The Avengers, so I am acquainted with the works of both directors involved. While I will agree that Bay is sometimes subjected to much harsher criticism than he deserves, in my opinion he could never come close to making a movie as fine as The Avengers. Bay is a great action director, but he is terribly unsubtle when it comes to defining characters or attempts at humor, both areas where Whedon excels.


Bay's films are only good when things are exploding. When the characters have to slow down and interact with each other, everything unravels quickly. Then you get true disaster films like Transformers: DOTM, in which the so-called humorous scenes are so painful as to render the whole unwatchable.


Whedon, in contrast, is able to skillfully weave together action, subtle character development and humor into a film where all of those elements blend organically. The humor in the film never leaves the audience groaning because of its lameness, while the quieter moments between characters serve to advance their relationships and the viewers' understanding of them. Can you honestly say that about any of Bay's movies? I can't, despite the fact that I have actually enjoyed several of them.


I suggest that you watch The Avengers (or rewatch it), then revisit this issue. Your opinion may change once you are able to actually compare Whedon's work to Bay's films.
 
Another huge problem with bay is his epic fail attempts at humor. Which is why his fallback is ethnic stereotypes and pee/fart jokes.
 
He's a highly skilled hack basically, probably the best of his kind.
 
He's anything but a hack. He definitely has his own distinct style.

Hacks are guys like McG or Ratner or Peter Berg
 
He's anything but a hack. He definitely has his own distinct style.

Hacks are guys like McG or Ratner or Peter Berg

I'll put Ratner's Red Dragon up against any alternate universe Bay version.
 
I actually am kind of interested in Bay's Pain & Gain since it's a smaller budget movie with some good decent people (Mark Wahlberg, Dwayne Johnson, Ed Harris, Tony Shaloub, and Anthony Mackie) in it. Plus, from I read of the story it's based on, there aren't any big explosions and only a couple murders and beatings. Should be one where the characters will be the main focus.
 
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