The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 50

[Scarlettess]

I'll be at the NYC one. It's slated for April 1st

I hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you get your tickets? I havn't seen any info/ anywhere to buy tickets for it ANYWHERE in the UK, but theres usually a premiere in London correct?

Damn you just made me realize there's probably going to be a huge blu ray box set. I've bought em all separately :'-(

I hope so! I havnt got them on blu-ray yet because I'm hoping this will happen, doesn't really make sense for them not to put out a boxset.

KF has said in multiple interviews you won't have to have seen any of the previous films to enjoy the Avengers.

Which is exactly the way it should be.

Yep, and so many other fans of that franchise as well. That proves, like I said earlier, you can have two standalone properties in the same universe that both coincide with each other and can be enjoyed separately as well. Which is obviously what they are attempting with Avengers.

Agreed.

I agree, woulda helped considering it was super SHIELD heavy...wasn't as organic as the agents in Thor. But I'm still happy with the way things are.

I think it works both ways. Iron Man 2 was definately more SHIELD focused, but seeing as Loki is the villain it also makes sense for Thor to be the last one in the continueity as well. (Yes I know TIH overlaps somewhat, but Thor should definately be the last one watched before Avengers)

 

[J.Howlett]

Totally disagree with dismissing the Marvel films so far as just being 'warm ups' to Avengers and not being 'real stories'.

IM1 was a self contained story with no obvious connection to a grander scheme until the post credits Fury scene (which a lot of the audience would have missed first time round!)

TIH had the Super Soldier connection, but that was handled as a fundamental part of its self contained story (knowledge of Cap, Shield, or the Avengers was not required at all to get the idea). There was the last bit with Ross & Stark, but that was originally meant to be post credits as well (Marvel got skittish before release and thought promoting Stark as appearing would help get more bums on seats).

IM2 had the most obvious connections to Avengers within its story, but it was still a self contained story (Tbh I personally think the complaints about the Shield/Avengers references in IM2 are overblown).

Thor had Coulson and Shield, but then the story could have used any government security agency in the role they served. Hawkeye's brief cameo was the most obvious link to Avengers, and again the story was entirely self contained. No need to see the other films at all to enjoy it.

Lastly Captain America, again a self contained story. The only direct links to Avengers coming with the opening discovery scene, Howard Stark's character, and the ending scene with Fury (another one bumped up from post credits from what I have read).

Bottom line is all the Marvel films have been self contained 'real' stories which can be enjoyed independent of each other. IM2 was the only when where knowledge of Fury was presumed within the story (assumption being that anyone who watched IM1 would have gotten round to knowing about that one's post credits scene).

Had Thor given SHIELD a proper ending like the first Iron Man movie and dropped Hawkeye, I'd completely agree about Thor.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Totally disagree with dismissing the Marvel films so far as just being 'warm ups' to Avengers and not being 'real stories'.

IM1 was a self contained story with no obvious connection to a grander scheme until the post credits Fury scene (which a lot of the audience would have missed first time round!)

TIH had the Super Soldier connection, but that was handled as a fundamental part of its self contained story (knowledge of Cap, Shield, or the Avengers was not required at all to get the idea). There was the last bit with Ross & Stark, but that was originally meant to be post credits as well (Marvel got skittish before release and thought promoting Stark as appearing would help get more bums on seats).

IM2 had the most obvious connections to Avengers within its story, but it was still a self contained story (Tbh I personally think the complaints about the Shield/Avengers references in IM2 are overblown).

Thor had Coulson and Shield, but then the story could have used any government security agency in the role they served. Hawkeye's brief cameo was the most obvious link to Avengers, and again the story was entirely self contained. No need to see the other films at all to enjoy it.

Lastly Captain America, again a self contained story. The only direct links to Avengers coming with the opening discovery scene, Howard Stark's character, and the ending scene with Fury (another one bumped up from post credits from what I have read).

Bottom line is all the Marvel films have been self contained 'real' stories which can be enjoyed independent of each other. IM2 was the only when where knowledge of Fury was presumed within the story (assumption being that anyone who watched IM1 would have gotten round to knowing about that one's post credits scene).

You win the internet today

 

[Kirmit]

Absolutely. My girlfriend knew who Thor was but didnt know the details, an she loved Iron Man, and now she loves Thor more than IM1. She killed herself laughing when Thor is at breakfast. The cast is great and the film did a phenomenal job blending reality with fantasy.

I think this is what really helped Thor, the cast got on really well and we saw that on screen. Now, the casts in all the other films were equally great but none of those other films had a team feeling, both IM films were mostly just Stark going it alone, TIH had most of the characters at each others throats, CA did have a team with the howling commandos but it was for a very short period, most of the time it was just him. Thor is really the only film that had a team throughout with Thor, the warriors three and Lady Sif then Thor with Jane, Selvig and Darcy, IMO this made the film very enjoyable to watch.

 

[Poni_Boy]

The writer's strike probably cost us an Edgar Wright Ant-Man movie

I feel sorry for anyone who still anxiously awaits that movie

 

[Chewy]

Had Thor given SHIELD a proper ending like the first Iron Man movie and dropped Hawkeye, I'd completely agree about Thor.

Their ending in Iron Man was Coulson's "Give us a call"

Their ending in Thor was Thor's "We fight for the same cause"

It was basically the same ending

 

[Poni_Boy]

I hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you get your tickets? I havn't seen any info/ anywhere to buy tickets for it ANYWHERE in the UK, but theres usually a premiere in London correct?

There are going to be at least half a dozen premieres. LA/NYC/London/Moscow/Sydney I believe at the ones already confirmed.

I'm a journalist. I didn't buy tickets.

 

[Drummerdude7]

I think this is what really helped Thor, the cast got on really well and we saw that on screen. Now, the casts in all the other films were equally great but none of those other films had a team feeling, both IM films were mostly just Stark going it alone, TIH had most of the characters at each others throats, CA did have a team with the howling commandos but it was for a very short period, most of the time it was just him. Thor is really the only film that had a team throughout with Thor, the warriors three and Lady Sif then Thor with Jane, Selvig and Darcy, IMO this made the film very enjoyable to watch.

Exactly. My only qualm with the film to this day was that I think Thor should have been stranded a little while longer...but everything else was great. All the characters were bang on and leave things wide open for better development in a sequel.

 

[J.Howlett]

Their ending in Iron Man was Coulson's "Give us a call"

Their ending in Thor was Thor's "We fight for the same cause"

It was basically the same ending

I'm talking about SHIELD helping our heroes in the climax, thus giving them a reason to be in the narrative. They do that in Iron Man. In Thor, they get their asses handed to them and then Coulson wants to debrief Thor, then basically gone.

 

[Scarlettess]

There are going to be at least half a dozen premieres. LA/NYC/London/Moscow/Sydney I believe at the ones already confirmed.

I'm a journalist. I didn't buy tickets.

Ah lovely, i might try go to the one in London given if its not sold out already. and lol yeah I didn't realise that I dont really know how the premiere thing works....if you buy tickets or just turn up etc etc.

 

[J.Howlett]

Exactly. My only qualm with the noir to this day was that I think Thor should have been stranded a little while longer...but everything else was great. All the characters were bang on and leave things wide open for better development in a sequel.

Yep. Film needs another 15 minutes.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I'm talking about SHIELD helping our heroes in the climax, thus giving them a reason to be in the narrative. They do that in Iron Man. In Thor, they get their asses handed to them and then Coulson wants to debrief Thor, then basically gone.

Wel... yeah. It's SHIELD, not the FBI or local law enforcement. They are a clandestine organization which means they don't follow typical rules and acting patterns. They do what they gotta do then get the heck out. I'm sure the only reason they even wear suits are a bane attempt to look official for civilians.

 

[Scarlettess]

Exactly. My only qualm with the noir to this day was that I think Thor should have been stranded a little while longer...but everything else was great. All the characters were bang on and leave things wide open for better development in a sequel.

I agree, in fact I know its suppose to be two days, but in the context of the movie itself, Thor could have been held in the SHIELD cell for however long you imagine, before Jane comes picking him up. Also the pacing and context of the film make it feel like hes been on earth alot longer then he actually has.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Ah lovely, i might try go to the one in London given if its not sold out already. and lol yeah I didn't realise that I dont really know how the premiere thing works....if you buy tickets or just turn up etc etc.

Fans usually wait in line to see the celebs show up for the red carpet but that's about it. They don't get to walk the carpet or go into the screening with the cast. Sometimes they'll have tickets for sale to the movie itself but that's highly unlikely for this considering how many crew/cast members, family and friends there are that will be showing up.

 

[Chewy]

I'm talking about SHIELD helping our heroes in the climax, thus giving them a reason to be in the narrative. They do that in Iron Man. In Thor, they get their asses handed to them and then Coulson wants to debrief Thor, then basically gone.

They are in Iron Man to help him along. They help Pepper avoid Stane, they help her look into his work

They are in Thor to hinder his progression. They present an obstacle to him getting to his hammer, and provide a reason for Jane to go back to get Thor (they took her equipment)

They essentially serve opposite roles in the two narratives, one as quasi-ally and one as quasi-villain. They simply serve to help our hero's story along. They don't really get a conclusion in either, they're background characters with open endings

 

[Poni_Boy]

They don't really get a conclusion in either, they're background characters with open endings

My biggest problem with SHIELD's appearance in these films is the fan reaction. It seems like they are just never happy and want MOAR, across the board. If someone had told me in 2002 that in a decade's time we would have Marvel superhero movies that tie together and use SHIELD as the rope, I would have laughed out loud.

They are a plot device. They help the story along. Up until Avengers, they aren't really important. They are there first and foremost for the fans.

 

[Scarlettess]

Fans usually wait in line to see the celebs show up for the red carpet but that's about it. They don't get to walk the carpet or go into the screening with the cast. Sometimes they'll have tickets for sale to the movie itself but that's highly unlikely for this considering how many crew/cast members, family and friends there are that will be showing up.

Ah thanks for the info! I always assumed it was like a pre-screening but with the cast there too, but never really looked into it before lol.

 

[J.Howlett]

Wel... yeah. It's SHIELD, not the FBI or local law enforcement. They are a clandestine organization which means they don't follow typical rules and acting patterns. They do what they gotta do then get the heck out. I'm sure the only reason they even wear suits are a bane attempt to look official for civilians.

I'm not against SHIELD being in Thor. Of all the films, it organically makes sense for them to be there. I'm just saying that had they found a better resolution/use for them in the climax, I wouldn't have a problem with the feel of how they're left at the end of the film.

 

[wobbly]

I'm talking about SHIELD helping our heroes in the climax, thus giving them a reason to be in the narrative. They do that in Iron Man. In Thor, they get their asses handed to them and then Coulson wants to debrief Thor, then basically gone.

They had a reason to be in the narrative: An alien artefact of immense power lands in the desert and proves impossible to move from its location would tend to draw the attention of any Governments security agencies.

 

[J.Howlett]

They are in Iron Man to help him along. They help Pepper avoid Stane, they help her look into his work

They are in Thor to hinder his progression. They present an obstacle to him getting to his hammer, and provide a reason for Jane to go back to get Thor (they took her equipment)

They essentially serve opposite roles in the two narratives, one as quasi-ally and one as quasi-villain. They simply serve to help our hero's story along. They don't really get a conclusion in either, they're background characters with open endings

They are not in Thor to hinder him. They are there to find answers to an anomaly in the town that can't be explained.

Big difference.

 

[Chewy]

I'm not against SHIELD being in Thor. Of all the films, it organically makes sense for them to be there. I'm just saying that had they found a better resolution/use for them in the climax, I wouldn't have a problem with the feel of how they're left at the end of the film.

Their inclusion in the climaxes is fairly similar, too

They go to the Warrors 3/Sif's landing spot to investigate and the Destroyer blows up their cars, likely killing most of them

What more should they have done?

In Iron Man they went to help Pepper and Stane killed most of them before Tony showed up

 

[J.Howlett]

They had a reason to be in the narrative: An alien artefact of immense power lands in the desert and proves impossible to move from its location would tend to draw the attention of any Governments security agencies.

Yeah. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about how they're left at the end of the film.

 

[Chewy]

They are not in Thor to hinder him. They are there to find answers to an anomaly in the town that can't be explained.

Big difference.

Narratively speaking they're a hindrance.

 

[Xeno]

Totally disagree with dismissing the Marvel films so far as just being 'warm ups' to Avengers and not being 'real stories'.

IM1 was a self contained story with no obvious connection to a grander scheme until the post credits Fury scene (which a lot of the audience would have missed first time round!)

TIH had the Super Soldier connection, but that was handled as a fundamental part of its self contained story (knowledge of Cap, Shield, or the Avengers was not required at all to get the idea). There was the last bit with Ross & Stark, but that was originally meant to be post credits as well (Marvel got skittish before release and thought promoting Stark as appearing would help get more bums on seats).

IM2 had the most obvious connections to Avengers within its story, but it was still a self contained story (Tbh I personally think the complaints about the Shield/Avengers references in IM2 are overblown).

Thor had Coulson and Shield, but then the story could have used any government security agency in the role they served. Hawkeye's brief cameo was the most obvious link to Avengers, and again the story was entirely self contained. No need to see the other films at all to enjoy it.

Lastly Captain America, again a self contained story. The only direct links to Avengers coming with the opening discovery scene, Howard Stark's character, and the ending scene with Fury (another one bumped up from post credits from what I have read).

Bottom line is all the Marvel films have been self contained 'real' stories which can be enjoyed independent of each other. IM2 was the only when where knowledge of Fury was presumed within the story (assumption being that anyone who watched IM1 would have gotten round to knowing about that one's post credits scene).

Excellent post. I completely agree with your assessment. A lot of the objections to the peripheral ties between the films are nothing but a bunch of overwrought whining to me. Some fans need nits to pick and will go out of their way to find them, then harp on them for years.


The main objection seems to be that the movies have any connections at all, as some seem upset that Marvel has created a shared universe for its characters. The irony is that if Marvel behaved like WB and left its franchises unconnected, people would be whining about that.

 

[J.Howlett]

Narratively speaking they're a hindrance.

They become that. They didn't start that way.