The Burton Films Batman and Batman Returns.

[TheGrayGhost]

BB is good but, I didn't jump on the BB bandwagon. If the Joker doesn't even have the white face because of Nolan's lack of imagination, I won't even bother with it, hopefully someone will tell him this is a comic book, and even though Batman doesn't have powers some of his villians do, and Batman's not meant to be bland, he's always been a Superhero, his gadgets and suit give him his powers, in a sense, there's just something about Batman, he's not meant to be just some gritty dull vigilante. He's more than that. I mean Goyer had to convince Nolan to let Scarecrow wear a mask! these filmmakers need to make these comic book characters come to life with respect and keep their opinions to themselves. It is based on something long loved by fans, if they wanna' do something of their own then let them write something original of their own and leave these characters as they are. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

EDIT: Sigh. I won't even bother with a response. Oh, wait. This is a response. Damn.

Just read my previous post on the last page.

 

[Morgoth]

I miss watching 89 in the theater. That was such a great time.

 

[블라스]

I love this thread.
I actually hated the Burton films for a while, especially after watching Batman Begins, but I took a chance and bought the SE's, and damn, I'm so glad I did, they really are excellent movies

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Singer has no imagination, and his "sequel" is lazy story telling. He just couldn't come up with anything original and actually make a faithful Superman movie. I could've punched him when he told that fan at a comicon that the movie's based on next to nothing from the comics.

Well, it's from a comic it is a comic but, Singer said it himself he hasn't ever read them and doesn't care. Idiot.

The Spidey spandex looks way better than the Supes suit though.

Singer has realised that Supeman is a character, not a comicbook. The story of Superman was originally told in comicSTRIPS, then comicBOOKS, then radio shows, then television....it's a story that can be told in any medium.

Look at Begins; Nolan and Goyer were pretty damn faithful to Batman mythos, but not the medium of a comic itself. Begins in no way attempts to look like a comic or function like one.

 

[co2]

Singer has realised that Supeman is a character, not a comicbook. The story of Superman was originally told in comicSTRIPS, then comicBOOKS, then radio shows, then television....it's a story that can be told in any medium.

Look at Begins; Nolan and Goyer were pretty damn faithful to Batman mythos, but not the medium of a comic itself. Begins in no way attempts to look like a comic or function like one.

That's a pretty damn good point. Superman and Batman have transcended their comic book roots. The characters are almost mythic at this point so I think the film makers serve them well by taking history from the comics, but not being bound to it.

 

[fabman]

Soooo... Although I think Batman Begins is the best movie based on Kane's characters, that doesn't mean "i've jumped on the BB bandwagon". I see the Bat-films as FILMS!

So, I think "Batman" (1989) lacks somewhere in the storytelling, because of its minimal storyline. But this doesn't change the fact Tim Burton's a funny and adventurous "tour de force" with a great Michael Keaton and a hell-of-a Jack Nicholson. 7/10

"Batman Returns" (1992) has the same problem with its storyline plus the hero is overshadowed by the villains again! This movie isn't as funny as the first, but the characterizations and psychological aspects are better. This is a true Burton film. 7/10

 

[Morgoth]

Singer has realised that Supeman is a character, not a comicbook. The story of Superman was originally told in comicSTRIPS, then comicBOOKS, then radio shows, then television....it's a story that can be told in any medium.

Look at Begins; Nolan and Goyer were pretty damn faithful to Batman mythos, but not the medium of a comic itself. Begins in no way attempts to look like a comic or function like one.

You still have to respect where it came from. And the mythos is what these filmmakers don't care about. That's what I should've said. If they did care they'd stay faithful to it. I want to see the characters cometo life I've known for years, not some ignorant director's version who doesn't get it and doesn't care.

 

[co2]

You still have to respect where it came from. And the mythos is what these filmmakers don't care about. That's what I should've said. If they did care they'd stay faithful to it. I want to see the characters cometo life I've known for years, not some ignorant director's version who doesn't get it and doesn't care.

stories and myths have to be allowed to evolve just like every thing else.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

You still have to respect where it came from. And the mythos is what these filmmakers don't care about. That's what I should've said. If they did care they'd stay faithful to it. I want to see the characters cometo life I've known for years, not some ignorant director's version who doesn't get it and doesn't care.

Exactly. That's the main reason why the previous franchise failed. Good post.

 

[El Payaso]

Exactly. That's the main reason why the previous franchise failed. Good post.

The only reason the previous franchise failed was Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin.

Batman 89 was not 100% faithful to comics and still is THE most successful Batman movie. Not to mention that Begins has the usual amount of unfaithfulness.

Faithfulness to the comics had never been related with success or quality.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

The only reason the previous franchise failed was Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin.

Batman 89 was not 100% faithful to comics and still is THE most successful Batman movie. Not to mention that Begins has the usual amount of unfaithfulness.

Faithfulness to the comics had never been related with success or quality.

Oh, come on, let me have my fun. I mean, no one has responded to my huge post earlier, so I'm just trying to make my time in this thread eventful.

 

[Whack Arnolds]

No ADAPTATION can be a 100% representative of the "source". Because it is just that, an ADAPTATION. It takes the key elements and themes of all the characters and stories and may tweak it here and there (some cases for better or for worse) and it makes something fresh out of concept and stories we already know and love. THAT'S the beauty in it. I would never want to see a Batman film that is an exact translation of a previous piece of work. I want new stories, with similar elements to key stories and characters of the mythos, but I want it presented in a new way. Alot of hardcore comic fanboys can't grasp this.

Anyway, to the topic at hand...
The Burton Bat-Films were not only monumental for the Batman legacy, but for comic book movies, and summer blockbusters in general. B89 is arguably the template for how all studios hope their summer blockbuster is recieved and anticipated over.

The movies themselves are outstanding. I personally feel B89 is the best of the bunch, because even though it may not be as deep as Batman Returns...it combines a perfect combonation of film aesthetics and story telling, along with subtle themes. B89 is pure film magic. It sucks you into it's world, and grips you. I grew up with it as a child, it was the first movie I EVER saw in a theatre... it hooked me like a crack fiend onto the character of Batman. I just can't really put it into words. And if I tried, I would be here for days. I can watch it at anytime and never be bored, and still get the nostolgic feelings from my childhood, and can find new ways to interperut it when I see it through different eras from my life.

As for the legitimacy of whether B89 and Returns is faithful? To an extent, yes they are. B89 contains the essence of the early Bob Kane stories, perfectly. When people say Begins is more "faithful" it is true in that it represents a larger description of the character through its many forms, rather than just a particular version.

Returns, though deep down a fantastic film, yet not as fun as Begins or B89, was more of Burton's pure perspective on Batman. Sure some elements mesh with how he is percieved by the majority of fans, but for the most part it was a Tim Burton creation. Not that it is a bad thing, because it turned out about as well as it could for being a completely different outlook on the character compared to the first film. I would have liked to have seen a more direct sequel to B89, which would have most likely been met with more critical and financial success, and would have allowed the crew to stay together and make their trilogy... I still completely enjoy both Burton films.

 

[El Payaso]

Oh, come on, let me have my fun. I mean, no one has responded to my huge post earlier, so I'm just trying to make my time in this thread eventful.

Your long post was the seed of (yet) another thread-ruiner Burton-Nolan war. To reply it is to water the seed.

We have plenty of threads to develop that war.

 

[D'Artagnan]

Surely it's a good thing that not only have various directors shot these Batman movies, but that their movies are so different? The viewer can learn a lot about the character and the directors by contrasting the different movies.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Your long post was the seed of (yet) another thread-ruiner Burton-Nolan war. To reply it is to water the seed.

We have plenty of threads to develop that war.

Well, I can't say that you're wrong; but, if I remember correctly, it was you who asked of me why the older movies completely glossed over "the mission." And I told why.

 

[El Payaso]

My mistake

 

[neobido9999]

I really wish Burton has completed his trilogy. Compared t the equally good Noaln, he has far most intersting visuals (the designs for the joker and peguin are superb and iconic) but less idea how to tell and subtle and unfolding story, which Nolan can do brilliantly,

 

[Morgoth]

Would've been great if Burton completed his trilogy. If the rumors are true robin Williams would've been a dark psychotic Riddler.

Would've been wonderful. And I think if he went ahead, I'm sure he would've seen Wayans as Robin was dumb and went with someone who is more like Robin.

 

[Batman333]

Batman Begins is a film based on the comics. Batman is a film based on Tim Burton's imagination.

 

[HalloweenRes]

Batman Begins is a film based on the comics. Batman is a film based on Tim Burton's imagination.

AGREED.. And Tim Burton has one WILD imagination..

 

[theMan-Bat]

Would've been great if Burton completed his trilogy. If the rumors are true robin Williams would've been a dark psychotic Riddler.

And Robin Williams can be creepy and psychological. Just watch One Hour Photo and Insomnia for proof of that. Perfect for the Riddler (of the comics and the Animated Series).

 

[Sandman138]

Burtons Bat-Films will always be my favorite and it's one of my biggest dissapointments that he didn't get to finish his trilogy. It could have been perfection.

 

[Duneboy]

yeah, I agree it sucks he never finished the 3rd bat flick. Michael Keaton & Burton made a good team.

 

[Sandman138]

I'm so glad you know what I mean by spirit. It's that feeling that surrounds Batman, even when I read the comics that 89 theme still comes into my mind, the Elfmann score is Batman, that is his music, it is just right. That new score just isn't it, it's very good but not as good as the original.

And no it's not dated, I haven't ever gotten that feeling from that or thought that.

The only people that say that are kids that just don't know what they're talking about or haven't really grown up with it and missed that experience of 89.

That movie was made the way it was so it couldn't be dated, that sort of forties look, Burton said it himself, and that is true, it isn't dated. The Prince music still sucks but, oh well.

There are alot of kids on here that only know Begins, and they really don't know what they're talking about. I can see really liking BB for being faithful to the comics but, don't sit and talk about it like it's the only Bat movie ever made.

They don't know what the Summer of 89 was like.

I still remember forcing somebody in family to take me to see Returns in theaters when I was 6. Such an experience.

 

[TwilightPro101]

I can remember seeing both films in theater. Returns stands out as one of my favorite Batman memories. The summer heat was on and I was just dealing with everything that was happening at the moment...any way, my grandfather took me to see it in theaters and I waited for it to VHS as soon as it came out. I rented it a number of times despite the darkness.