Arrow The Caity Lotz/Black Canary Thread - Part 1

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]462783[/split]

 

[dsfjr1190]

So Caity Lotz will be playing Black Canary in season two. I don't know much about her acting, but judging by these clips I think she'll be perfect for the physical parts of the role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP02lfoCZ0c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5IPPnPVRIU

 

[luis4u]

The Caity Lotz/Dead Canary Thread

 

[Human Torch]

The Caity Lotz/The Original-senselessly killed off in a ridiculous way ,to fulfill the contractual obligations of another actress-Black Canary Thread

 

[luis4u]

The Caity Lotz/The Original-senselessly killed off in a ridiculous way ,to fulfill the contractual obligations of another actress-Black Canary Thread

 

[Human Torch]

You guys can dance around it all you want,it's still ***** writing.

 

[luis4u]

You guys can dance around it all you want,it's still ***** writing.

Sara lance was supposed to die, when we first saw her as the BC. Its called a Legacy Character. Her lifespan was shorter then Uncle bens. Hell she was supposed to become Ravager in Season 2 but because of popular demand that was changed to be Isabell.

 

[Dark Raven]

That was a very sudden and unexpected way to get rid of the character. Whether or not Laurel wants to take revenge, I still don't want to see her suit up as BC. I prefer her to just be the lawyer who puts away the bad guys that Arrow captures.

As for who shot Sara? Maybe it was Oliver. It sounded like him with the voice modulator.

Lotz will leave a large cavity that Cassidy can't fill.

 

[JC00]

Hell she was supposed to become Ravager in Season 2 but because of popular demand that was changed to be Isabell.

That's not true. One of the ideas when they were planning season 2 was her as Ravager but they decided to go with the Black Canary story.

 

[Primal Slayer]

That was a very sudden and unexpected way to get rid of the character. Whether or not Laurel wants to take revenge, I still don't want to see her suit up as BC. I prefer her to just be the lawyer who puts away the bad guys that Arrow captures.

As for who shot Sara? Maybe it was Oliver. It sounded like him with the voice modulator.

Lotz will leave a large cavity that Cassidy can't fill.

Somehow I'm not that worried

Though I was sadder then I thought to see Sara go in the present day.

And I dont get why people are so surprised at Sara having to give up the mantle since we knew it was coming, not how or when but the writers have repeatedly said that Laurel would be becoming BC. They didnt have to kill Sara off to do it, but it is the most emotional way to do it and it affects everyone on the show, just Laurel.

 

[p4poetic]

Why do people keep saying Cassidy can't fill Lotz' role? Its not as she ever delivered any particularly good performances. I think people are letting her status as a martial artists blind them.

 

[Gold Samurai]

I'm going to miss this two

 

[Wheels]

I think the problem is not Cassidy as much as it is the choices made with the Laurel character. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to care about what shes doing when we've had the League of Assassins storyline going on, Arrow and Black Canary being awesome, Roy dealing with his powers and the side effects, Diggle's quest to find Deadshot and subsequent understanding that he doesn't need vengeance for his brother, the continuing story of Oliver's 5 year absence, Slade Wilson's plan for revenge, Thea finding out who her real father is, and the Barry Allen and Suicide Squad appearances.

Giving her the storyline she had last season didn't help her. Dinah Laurel Lance shouldn't be positioned as one of the least interesting aspects of a Green Arrow show. Hopefully this season allows for a more interesting direction for the character.

 

[Primal Slayer]

They gave all the interesting storylines to everyone else and just had Laurel be the token damsel/girlfriend then she morphed into the character that no one wanted around at all. Thats why I think that this season will be the best yet since finally everyone will have something interesting going on and will be at their best.

They tried to give Laurel her own "island" when the character didn't need it to begin with, they should've embraced her as Black Canary from the beginning.

 

[Wheels]

They gave all the interesting storylines to everyone else and just had Laurel be the token damsel/girlfriend then she morphed into the character that no one wanted around at all. Thats why I think that this season will be the best yet since finally everyone will have something interesting going on and will be at their best.

They tried to give Laurel her own "island" when the character didn't need it to begin with, they should've embraced her as Black Canary from the beginning.

Exactly. I mean I loved Caity Lotz as Sara, but she was actually given something to work with while Cassidy really wasn't.

 

[herolee10]

If Cassidy already didn't have enough to face and conquer as it is, it doesn't help matters that Ted Grant may be turned into her CW-Standard Lover/boyfriend rather than Father-Figure on this show, which will likely irritated other people as well.

 

[Verick808]

They gave all the interesting storylines to everyone else and just had Laurel be the token damsel/girlfriend then she morphed into the character that no one wanted around at all. Thats why I think that this season will be the best yet since finally everyone will have something interesting going on and will be at their best.

They tried to give Laurel her own "island" when the character didn't need it to begin with, they should've embraced her as Black Canary from the beginning.

Yeah, there were definately some major drawbacks to introducing Laurel as regular before she became Black Canary. Her only relevance was her potential as a love interest and they wrote Ollie and Laurel a back story with just too much baggage. Seeing them together just left a bad aftertaste.

But now that were getting to her origin the writers have a lot they can work with. Ted Grant is appearing and maybe at some point Lady Shiva might take her under her wing. I only hope they don't pair her up with Ted. It would be such a CW thing to do.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think it's really interesting that Lotz's character isn't The Black Canary... she's just The Canary, and not even that in English.

You guys can dance around it all you want,it's still ***** writing.

They surprised us with something that we knew was going to happen. That takes a great deal of talent.

Why do people keep saying Cassidy can't fill Lotz' role? Its not as she ever delivered any particularly good performances. I think people are letting her status as a martial artists blind them.

I don't think people were blinded really, I think for many Sara was the perfect Canary. She didn't cause any trouble and she kicked massive amounts of butt. That's what she does in the comics.

Laurel, with her own life and a list of defects almost as long as Oliver's is a great deal more trouble than Dinah Lance in the comics. While more conflicted female characters might be interesting to the Vampire Diaries/Th 100/Supernatural crowd, amongst comics fans who are used to having these female characters as exceptionally supportive love interests, such characters can easily be viewed as inferior, annoying, and a waste of screen time. Fortunately, I think it balances out well, and those who don't like these less agreeable versions of comics characters still enjoy the show, and people who balk at underwritten female parts get to enjoy Arrow as well.

Caity Lotz is still awesome, and the visibility of this part, and physicality of it, will likely get her some more work. Sara dying isn't a tragedy. It's just... Arrow.

I think the problem is not Cassidy as much as it is the choices made with the Laurel character. I'm not sure why I'm supposed to care about what shes doing when we've had the League of Assassins storyline going on, Arrow and Black Canary being awesome, Roy dealing with his powers and the side effects, Diggle's quest to find Deadshot and subsequent understanding that he doesn't need vengeance for his brother, the continuing story of Oliver's 5 year absence, Slade Wilson's plan for revenge, Thea finding out who her real father is, and the Barry Allen and Suicide Squad appearances.

Giving her the storyline she had last season didn't help her. Dinah Laurel Lance shouldn't be positioned as one of the least interesting aspects of a Green Arrow show. Hopefully this season allows for a more interesting direction for the character.

Laurel was badly, badly mishandled last season. She should have had her lawyer putting them away story from this season last season. She still could have had the alcoholic thing, but it would have been a lot more interesting if she was still kicking butt in the courtroom. The fact that she's there now, to me, shows they know their mistake and they've righted that particular little ship. I'm not really concerned about her being important/likable going forward.

 

[The Guard]

I'm going to miss this two

Freudian slip?

 

[Seb]

I don't think people were blinded really, I think for many Sara was the perfect Canary. She didn't cause any trouble and she kicked massive amounts of butt. That's what she does in the comics.

Laurel, with her own life and a list of defects almost as long as Oliver's is a great deal more trouble than Dinah Lance in the comics. While more conflicted female characters might be interesting to the Vampire Diaries/Th 100/Supernatural crowd, amongst comics fans who are used to having these female characters as exceptionally supportive love interests, such characters can easily be viewed as inferior, annoying, and a waste of screen time. Fortunately, I think it balances out well, and those who don't like these less agreeable versions of comics characters still enjoy the show, and people who balk at underwritten female parts get to enjoy Arrow as well.

I think that the problem isn't that comics Canary is just a bland ass kicker while Laurel is riddled with issues, it's that her issues are annoying. Most of my exposure to Dinah is through Birds of Prey, and she is awesome in that (much better than in Green Arrow, frankly, since Ollie tends to be a dick and she goes for it because that's how comics apparently work).

Dinah had to work through a lot and some of that was given to Sara (Sin, for example) which is why she felt like the real Canary while Laurel was just a waste of a precious fraction of our 40 minute weekly fix. Dinah's only drug storyline in the comics was being there for Roy when Ollie bailed on him for shooting up. We got to see Sara dealing with being a warrior and a carer and a murderer. We got to seen Laurel being a whiny brat.

Essentially the writers didn't just kinda mess up Laurel, they totally *****ed her up and gave us exactly what she should have been in Sara. Now they have to try to make her interesting and yet distinct from what Sara was. (caving in to Ollicity crowd last episode is just going to make the Ollie/Laurel relationship feel as forced as killing Sara for motivation.)

 

[The Caped Knight]

I'm going to miss this two

 

[Human Torch]

 

[dude stannis]

They have failed my interest in Black Canary.

It's not even that I'm some kind of sexist nerd who believes Black Canary should be Arrow's lap dog. But I could watch Caity Lotz in her own Black Canary show every week with great enjoyment. But Laurel has been protrayed as such a total wet blanket for two seasons to the point I kept cringing everytime she showed up on screen this episode, even though she didn't do anything wrong.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think that the problem isn't that comics Canary is just a bland ass kicker while Laurel is riddled with issues, it's that her issues are annoying. Most of my exposure to Dinah is through Birds of Prey, and she is awesome in that (much better than in Green Arrow, frankly, since Ollie tends to be a dick and she goes for it because that's how comics apparently work).

Dinah had to work through a lot and some of that was given to Sara (Sin, for example) which is why she felt like the real Canary while Laurel was just a waste of a precious fraction of our 40 minute weekly fix. Dinah's only drug storyline in the comics was being there for Roy when Ollie bailed on him for shooting up. We got to see Sara dealing with being a warrior and a carer and a murderer. We got to seen Laurel being a whiny brat.

Essentially the writers didn't just kinda mess up Laurel, they totally *****ed her up and gave us exactly what she should have been in Sara. Now they have to try to make her interesting and yet distinct from what Sara was. (caving in to Ollicity crowd last episode is just going to make the Ollie/Laurel relationship feel as forced as killing Sara for motivation.)

I do feel that to a degree, the contrast between Laurel doing absolutely no butt kicking from comics with her issues while Sara was was an issue for many comic book fans, and Laurel's story, unconnected from the main one did a lot of meandering, so I feel that.

But I'm not seeing in such stark terms. Laurel's character grew very slowly, but she certainly isn't totally screwed up. She's already hero lawyer whose about to have a vendetta and a training storyline.

And while Sara kicked massive amounts of butt... being a LoA murderer, her storyline is not at all everything BC should be. She wasn't even called Black Canary. Again, they gave us butt kicking, and for some people, that's the perfect BC. They could watch that week after week indefinitely.

Killing Sara doesn't feel forced unless you read into it, neither does Ollie not wanting to date a civilian like Felicity for her safety but being willing to date Black Canary. The going back to the LoA all happy and everyone being okay with that was totally forced and awkward, but once that happens, being double crossed by assassins doesn't exactly scream out of character y'know?

 

[Wheels]

With Laurel it's not even an issue that they gave her an addiction storyline for me, but rather they had her completely lose it immediately after Tommy's death and I think it would've worked better had she lost her grip gradually over time. I'm not against doing a storyline about a character grieving and turning to pills and booze, but it just didn't work for me on this show.