Civil War The Civil War "ANYTHING GOES" Thread - ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK - NO SPOILER TAGS REQ.! - Part 2

[thorstone]

I previously proposed cutting off the beginning of the movie but on second thought, the most useless section of the movie (to its plot) was the whole damn airport scene. Cutting out the airport fight and all of the build to it (all of Wanda's & Vision's scenes, introducing Peter Parker, bringing in Ant-man) would cut the fat off of this movie but at the same time remove the real draw here-- Spider-man.

You said it yourself , you don't care for any of the characters. Why are you even watching the movie ? Why are you watching the movie and then come here to whine about it ?

I can watch popcorn and enjoy it for popcorn but this movie was not fun-- especially with it being 2 hours of a Marvel movie obsessed with a DC movie (Man of Steel). I was hoping through the whole movie that there would be something awesome like Red Hulk at the end, but it was a big letdown.

I don't hate the characters-- there is a line between the characters and the portrayal of the characters in the MCU. I find no emotional connection with the characters as they are in the movies. This continuity has turned to comedy. The MCU has turned into an apologetic parody of the super hero genre itself.

It does solidify for me though that I'm not likely to have fun with future Marvel movies because they are not evolving. This was one big ass commercial/trailer.

 

[Maximum_Maximus]

I can watch popcorn and enjoy it for popcorn but this movie was not fun. I was hoping through the whole movie that there would be something awesome like Red Hulk at the end, but it was a big letdown.

Then I feel for you. Go back to BVS then since that movie is probably right up your alley.

 

[Jaxon]

I can watch popcorn and enjoy it for popcorn but this movie was not fun-- especially with it being 2 hours of a Marvel movie obsessed with a DC movie (Man of Steel). I was hoping through the whole movie that there would be something awesome like Red Hulk at the end, but it was a big letdown.

It does solidify for me though that I'm not likely to have fun with future Marvel movies because they are not evolving. This was one big ass commercial/trailer. The MCU has truly turned into a parody of the super hero genre itself. I think that should stay in Deadpool.

CATWS was their move forward but they've regressed in the last 2 movies. Both movies were a perfect chance to raise the stakes but losing the main cast is off the table so the stakes are never quite felt.

Besides that issue that the MCU template causes there are some poor script choices here least of all being whether Cap signs or doesn't sign the Accords nothing changes.

 

[DACrowe]

I was Team Cap before I saw the movie. I am still Team Cap. As for your argument:

1) I really feel for Tony at the beginning of the movie because things just keep getting worse for him, so I understand why he'd be mad.
2) I don't think Cap wants to break up the Avengers. He just don't want to sacrifice his ideology no matter what the outcome is. Steve has never been any less than real to himself and to others. Signing the accord would go against everything he stands for.
3) Keeping the secret may not be a wise thing to do in hindsight, but I believer very strongly that it's because Steve viewed Tony as his friend, and knowing how much it would hurt Tony he decided to keep it a secret. Besides it's not like Tony asked Steve and Steve lies about it. Keeping mum is not the same as telling a lie.

Too often people conform because it's the path of the least resistance and make things ok on the surface. It's refreshing to have a hero who is willing to give up everything and do things the hard way because of what he believes in. Tony chose the former and therefore I have more respect for Steve in CW.

Really? Just to play devil's advocate, isn't not telling Tony what happened to his parents choosing the path of least resistance. He might not technically be "lying," but by doing this he isn't putting a strain on their friendship, or risking Tony going off on a vendetta on Cap's old pal Bucky. Avoiding such awkwardness is very much the definition of choosing the easier path.

 

[Filmfan93]

I can watch popcorn and enjoy it for popcorn but this movie was not fun-- especially with it being 2 hours of a Marvel movie obsessed with a DC movie (Man of Steel). I was hoping through the whole movie that there would be something awesome like Red Hulk at the end, but it was a big letdown.

So you expected some imaginary things that weren't advertised for the movie on the first place? Did you even see the trailers for this thing? The movie delivered 100% of what was advertised from the trailers. Never saw Red Hulk or any hints for it anywhere in these trailers.

And if the Lagos fight, the chase, the airport battle or the final fight weren't fun for you, I bet an hour of Batman and Superman not doing anything (in the first half of BvS), was great entertainment for you.

And what's with bringing Man of Steel to this? I don't see any resemblance between them.

 

[matt47]

I really loved Paul Rudd in this movie, even if it was for just a little bit. Makes me really excited for Ant-Man and The Wasp coming in a couple years.

"Something flew right in me!"

I know he had a mask on but his reaction when he

Spoiler

got big

was so ****ing hilarious!


"Did anyone bring any orange slices?"

 

[DACrowe]

I definitely found Tony to be more likeable and interesting than Steve in this movie. I feels like Tony was struggling more with the decision to hurt Steve, than it was the other way around.

I will add that the only reason to be against Tony in this movie is he sides with Ross, who then has that nefarious stand-in for Gitmo waiting for Team Cap. And even then, it is not really a surprising outcome considering the arrested Avengers were helping a known assassin and suspected terrorist and caused a fight that destroyed an airport.

But honestly, if superheroes existed (not to start going into some murky Zack Snyder territories), we would want some accountability, transparency, and oversight over the masks. It is indeed pretty arrogant of Steve to say, "I know what I'm doing, don't worry about it."

In that context, it is very easy to see where Tony is coming from. If they took away the cartoonish Ross presence, I would even say it would be easy to see him as the more moral of the two for most of the story.

 

[matt47]

No that's not right. The only ones on my don't care list are Vision and Wanda. I don't care for the story that was told in Civil War that's for sure and I hope the Russos redeem themselves in Infinity Wars and get back to the level of tension and care shown in CATWS.

I thought Vision had a couple of the best lines in the film and it would've been weird if they didn't know Wanda's guilt seeing as she was the one that caused this whole mess.

 

[DACrowe]

I previously proposed cutting off the beginning of the movie but on second thought, the most useless section of the movie (to its plot) was the whole damn airport scene. Cutting out the airport fight and all of the build to it (all of Wanda's & Vision's scenes, introducing Peter Parker, bringing in Ant-man) would cut the fat off of this movie but at the same time remove the real draw here-- Spider-man.

You are proposing cutting the best part of the movie?

I agree the movie is a bit long and doesn't really start "tightening the screws" until the third act. But the truth is the stuff where it drags is mostly the Cap and Bucky stuff in the middle. It is important to the plot, but for sheer comic book joy the airport stuff is (pardon the pun) a marvel. Is it great cinematic storytelling? No, but none of the MCU movies really are. However, it is paying off on the fear that "the band is breaking up." And I think the dissolution of the Avengers is a far more satisfying thread than "what about Bucky?" for most audiences.

In short, you never could cut that scene as it is the centerpiece of the movie.

 

[marshal99]

I previously proposed cutting off the beginning of the movie but on second thought, the most useless section of the movie (to its plot) was the whole damn airport scene. Cutting out the airport fight and all of the build to it (all of Wanda's & Vision's scenes, introducing Peter Parker, bringing in Ant-man) would cut the fat off of this movie but at the same time remove the real draw here-- Spider-man.



I can watch popcorn and enjoy it for popcorn but this movie was not fun-- especially with it being 2 hours of a Marvel movie obsessed with a DC movie (Man of Steel). I was hoping through the whole movie that there would be something awesome like Red Hulk at the end, but it was a big letdown.

I don't hate the characters-- there is a line between the characters and the portrayal of the characters in the MCU. I find no emotional connection with the characters as they are in the movies. This continuity has turned to comedy. The MCU has turned into an apologetic parody of the super hero genre itself.

It does solidify for me though that I'm not likely to have fun with future Marvel movies because they are not evolving. This was one big ass commercial/trailer.

Great , don't go to any marvel movies , don't bother to comment. Go watch BvS another 50 more times. Warner needs all the support they can get.

 

[terry78]

Basically cut out the entire specatcle scene most non-fans came to see. I know there are exceptions and there are average joes who also enjoy the plot and what not, but we all know most people paid to see these two teams kick the **** out of each other.

 

[JOE]

 

[Tymminator]

SO much this.

The efforts are very transparent and not even clever.

What's more truthful, they are futile.

This movie is already successful and for the vast majority of us who enjoyed it that can't be taken away in the slightest.

 

[Lilbaz]

I previously proposed cutting off the beginning of the movie but on second thought, the most useless section of the movie (to its plot) was the whole damn airport scene. Cutting out the airport fight and all of the build to it (all of Wanda's & Vision's scenes, introducing Peter Parker, bringing in Ant-man) would cut the fat off of this movie but at the same time remove the real draw here-- Spider-man.



I can watch popcorn and enjoy it for popcorn but this movie was not fun-- especially with it being 2 hours of a Marvel movie obsessed with a DC movie (Man of Steel). I was hoping through the whole movie that there would be something awesome like Red Hulk at the end, but it was a big letdown.

I don't hate the characters-- there is a line between the characters and the portrayal of the characters in the MCU. I find no emotional connection with the characters as they are in the movies. This continuity has turned to comedy. The MCU has turned into an apologetic parody of the super hero genre itself.

It does solidify for me though that I'm not likely to have fun with future Marvel movies because they are not evolving. This was one big ass commercial/trailer.

Don't watch marvel films then and don't post in the threads.

It's fine if you watch a film and have complaints to post them. But if you are writing off future films, then stay away from their threads.

 

[Slag]

Don't watch marvel films then and don't post in the threads.

You sure he watched the movie?

 

[HunBoy]

Someone create an easter egg thread

 

[Tymminator]

You sure he watched the movie?

Among other things. He's mentioned Red Hulk more than once as something that he feels would be in there, I had no idea why. I think it's best just to leave him be as he's determined to being bad mood about the movie and I myself am in too much of a excellent mood to worry about it.

 

[Brian Braddock]

This continuity has turned to comedy. The MCU has turned into an apologetic parody of the super hero genre itself.

It does solidify for me though that I'm not likely to have fun with future Marvel movies because they are not evolving. This was one big ass commercial/trailer.

Respectfully and whole-heartedly disagree. Maybe, maybe, something like that could be levelled at Whedon, but at the Russo's? Absolutely no way. Between the two of them they have succeeded in giving us two of the most serious MCU movies there have been. Yes, there are quips but they never overpower the drama. In my opinion, they strike exactly the right balance in tone and intrigue.

I.....really cannot see where you are coming from here.

 

[kingskipper28]

I will add that the only reason to be against Tony in this movie is he sides with Ross, who then has that nefarious stand-in for Gitmo waiting for Team Cap. And even then, it is not really a surprising outcome considering the arrested Avengers were helping a known assassin and suspected terrorist and caused a fight that destroyed an airport.

But honestly, if superheroes existed (not to start going into some murky Zack Snyder territories), we would want some accountability, transparency, and oversight over the masks. It is indeed pretty arrogant of Steve to say, "I know what I'm doing, don't worry about it."

In that context, it is very easy to see where Tony is coming from. If they took away the cartoonish Ross presence, I would even say it would be easy to see him as the more moral of the two for most of the story.

"What if these people send us somewhere we don't need to go, what if there's somewhere we need to go and they won't send us?" Paraphrasing but that line I think makes Steve's stance the more moral of the two. Give me a break, we all know how corrupt the government is. They would send the Avengers into an unjustified war like Iraq...

 

[kingskipper28]

How come no mentions how Black Widow and Nick Fury hid the secret from Tony too?

 

[Nicko-Ray]

Anybody know the song during Peter's entrance? When the QUEENS card shows up on screen.

 

[ScarlettW]

How come no mentions how Black Widow and Nick Fury hid the secret from Tony too?

I think it will be mentioned in Avengers 3.

 

[JMLZ]

How come no mentions how Black Widow and Nick Fury hid the secret from Tony too?

The fact that the Starks were not killed by a car accident but were deliberately targeted, was a Hydra secret that Zola told to Steve and Natasha. I see no reason to believe that Nick Fury knew the truth since he didn't know about Hydra's presence in SHIELD until the events of CA:WS.

As for Natasha's relationship with Tony, there's time to address that in a sequel, but at the end of this film she was on the run.

 

[TalismanRing]

I will add that the only reason to be against Tony in this movie is he sides with Ross, who then has that nefarious stand-in for Gitmo waiting for Team Cap. And even then, it is not really a surprising outcome considering the arrested Avengers were helping a known assassin and suspected terrorist and caused a fight that destroyed an airport.

But honestly, if superheroes existed (not to start going into some murky Zack Snyder territories), we would want some accountability, transparency, and oversight over the masks. It is indeed pretty arrogant of Steve to say, "I know what I'm doing, don't worry about it."

In that context, it is very easy to see where Tony is coming from. If they took away the cartoonish Ross presence, I would even say it would be easy to see him as the more moral of the two for most of the story.

Let's not forget that The World Security Council and SHIELD caused most of the damage and death in those videos by Ross, save Sokovia, and would have caused far more if it wasn't for The Avengers.

I really think that should have been hammered in more and given more than a throw away line by Rhodey that the U.N. isn't the WSC or SHIELD.

(though it's not as if the U.N. hasn't turned a blind eye or acted when it's politically convenient rather than a moral imperative)

Ross as Secretary of State and the guy seemingly the point man for The Accords brings alone a lot of nefarious hypocritical baggage so he's particularly bad front man but that might just be because we know him but not the others.

 

[TalismanRing]

The fact that the Starks were not killed by a car accident but were deliberately targeted, was a Hydra secret that Zola told to Steve and Natasha. I see no reason to believe that Nick Fury knew the truth since he didn't know about Hydra's presence in SHIELD until the events of CA:WS.

As for Natasha's relationship with Tony, there's time to address that in a sequel, but at the end of this film she was on the run.

That information was released on the WWW wasn't it along with all of SHIELD's secrets. I find it difficult to believe Fury (or others) didn't go through that with a fine tooth comb.

Still that information was that HYDRA had Howard executed, not that the WS specifically did it which is not something Steve knew for sure either but rather suspected.