Civil War The Civil War "ANYTHING GOES" Thread - ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK - NO SPOILER TAGS REQ.! - Part 2

[ScarlettW]

how did he know howard stark personally?

He met the young Howard, but not that old he killed. I think he only remembered the people he killed, but didn't know who they really were.

 

[ScarlettW]

Also does anyone else think it matters that only 3 of them were there? I hear a lot of arguments that Zemo couldnt possibly know that only Cap, WS and Stark will show up. To me it doesn't matter and i think to Zemo it doesnt matter. No matter who shows up (as long as the 3 of them are included) once Stark learns the truth it ends the same way. With more avengers there perhaps even worse. Anyone agrees?

Zemo set it up. He allowed Bucky thought he was going to do something with all six soldiers. He knew that Bucky and Steve would try to prevent it from happening.
As for Tony, he called the hotel asking for coffee to the woman find the body of that man. So, Tony would know that Bucky was innocent. He knew that Tony would go to that place to help Steve.

 

[SuperSanchez]

Zemo set it up. He allowed Bucky thought he was going to do something with all six soldiers. He knew that Bucky and Steve would try to prevent it from happening.
As for Tony, he called the hotel asking for coffee to the woman find the body of that man. So, Tony would know that Bucky was innocent. He knew that Tony would go to that place to help Steve.

I couldnt take this scene seriously because the dead body was Joe Russo and I was trying too hard not to laugh xD

 

[Muze]

Zemo reminds me a bit of Kevin Spacey's character in S7even. he profiled Stark and knew exactly what would set him off/how he'd react. same with Rogers. to the guy saying that everything would have been ok if Steve had simply denied knowledge of the starks' murder have no understanding of Steve Rogers. it would be completely against his nature to not take responsibility/tell the truth. and Stark had been wanting to act out his aggressions since the beginning of Age of Ultron. Zemo's a better study than the Dark Knight's Joker in a lot of ways.

 

[Muze]

Thing is when you apply realism to it a great many people in the same situation as Stark emotionally would react the exact same way even knowing it's not Bucky's fault.

I've got to say the scene where Stark watches his parents being murdered on the monitor may be the most purely heartbreaking and upsetting I've seen in any superhero movie since Jonathan Kent's death in SUPERMAN '78 and that's largely down to RDJ.

it also ties into the first two Iron Man movies where Stark, off-the-cuff, mentions to the press that he never got to say goodbye to his father. he finds out how his father really felt about him in the second movie; he was his greatest "invention." watching the man die had to have crushed him.

 

[ScarlettW]

Zemo reminds me a bit of Kevin Spacey's character in S7even. he profiled Stark and knew exactly what would set him off/how he'd react. same with Rogers. to the guy saying that everything would have been ok if Steve had simply denied knowledge of the starks' murder have no understanding of Steve Rogers. it would be completely against his nature to not take responsibility/tell the truth. and Stark had been wanting to act out his aggressions since the beginning of Age of Ultron. Zemo's a better study than the Dark Knight's Joker in a lot of ways.

Yep.
Add to it the fact that Zemo found out that Steve was a friend of Howard. What makes it more personal.

 

[samsnee]

This whole thing would have been resolved if Zemo had mutated Quicksilver's body into a rage monster as a plan B.

 

[captainrogers]

Allow me to catch you up. God I love this sequence.

[YT]62cjheqv-nw[/YT]

That was more an implication.
It's the actual FILE that Widow gave to him that connected the dots.
Remember the warning she gave him about digging in that?
Widow TRULY is full of secrets.

 

[Overman27pj]

That was more an implication.
It's the actual FILE that Widow gave to him that connected the dots.
Remember the warning she gave him about digging in that?
Widow TRULY is full of secrets.

I believe you, Captain Rodgers.

 

[noakai]

He met the young Howard, but not that old he killed. I think he only remembered the people he killed, but didn't know who they really were.

I have a hard time believing this; they most likely gave him the names of the people he was supposed to kill before they sent him off, so when Bucky regained himself, he would have been able to remember that the old man he was sent off to kill was named Howard Stark and then put together that it the same one he knew in WWII even if he couldn't actually recognize his face because Howard was way older than he remembered.

 

[kahelle]

Zemo set it up. He allowed Bucky thought he was going to do something with all six soldiers. He knew that Bucky and Steve would try to prevent it from happening.
As for Tony, he called the hotel asking for coffee to the woman find the body of that man. So, Tony would know that Bucky was innocent. He knew that Tony would go to that place to help Steve.

I feel so stupid for not realizing that it was Zemo wearing Bucky prosthetics in that grainy vid the authorities released after the UN bombing.

There are so many things happening in this movie that it really needs to be watched more than once. Watched it twice now. And I still want to watch it some more.

 

[TheVileOne]

I recall Friday said there was a Bucky prosthetic in hotel room.

 

[kahelle]

Didn't hear that the first time around. I can't wait for the blu-ray so I can turn on subtitles. I am not a native English speaker so sometimes some of the dialogue was not easy to catch.

 

[Annuminas]

This whole thing would have been resolved if Zemo had mutated Quicksilver's body into a rage monster as a plan B.

I literally LOL'd at this. Good one

 

[Jaxon]

I have a hard time believing this; they most likely gave him the names of the people he was supposed to kill before they sent him off, so when Bucky regained himself, he would have been able to remember that the old man he was sent off to kill was named Howard Stark and then put together that it the same one he knew in WWII even if he couldn't actually recognize his face because Howard was way older than he remembered.

In CATWS Bucky says something like "the man on the bridge, I knew him" and then Redford goes "yes you met him on a mission the other night".

That clearly says to me Bucky's mind gets wiped. I think the stuff about him knowing who he killed is inconsistent.

 

[Schlosser85]

I gathered that his memories started coming back in bits and pieces without the routine mind wipes. By the time we get to CW, in the MCU timeline it's been two years since he's had a mind wipe.

 

[Knight_SV]

Oh please. BW wasn't given anything that belonged to Sharon. You only wish that what BW had was given to Sharon.

That speech is iconic and was given to Peggy and just parroted by Sharon to give her some shine by association. I love Peggy but that's Cap's speech and in this movie he should have been the one giving it and it should have been a pivotal inspirational powerful moment.

That and Evans would have delivered it about a million times better.

I know you don't read comics. But voltron had a point. I have read the winter soldier arc from captain america comic vol. 2 last year and most of BW scenes and dynamic from TWS was actually Sharon's part from the comic.

 

[Darkraid]

This whole thing would have been resolved if Tony and Steve's mom are both named Martha..

There I fixed it for you.

 

[Mjölnir]

In CATWS Bucky says something like "the man on the bridge, I knew him" and then Redford goes "yes you met him on a mission the other night".

That clearly says to me Bucky's mind gets wiped. I think the stuff about him knowing who he killed is inconsistent.

Your first paragraph shuts down your second one.

He gets his mind wiped but it's obviously a temporary measure from what we see in TWS. They even say that he's been out of the freezer too long. They wipe him again for his last mission and still Steve manages to get through to him when they fight in the end, although just barely.

Ergo it's very consistent that now that he's been out on his own for a year or two his memories have come back. Nothing has ever pointed to the the mind wiping of Bucky is permanent.

We all know what you're trying to do but you have to start with actually analyzing things first, not just jump at every thing you see that might be a negative at first glance.

 

[Wylie Times]

In CATWS Bucky says something like "the man on the bridge, I knew him" and then Redford goes "yes you met him on a mission the other night".

That clearly says to me Bucky's mind gets wiped. I think the stuff about him knowing who he killed is inconsistent.

What are you talking about? We clearly see at the end of TWS that his memories are coming back even after the mind wipe. Then there's the post credits scene that show him looking into his past at the Captain America museum.

 

[BobJM]

Is Alfre Woodard playing the character she'll play in Luke Cage?

I didn't catch her name, but that would be a bit of a bruise on an amazing film if she's playing just some random grieving mother. I understand if the movies and tv shows don't mix, but don't blatantly cast actors that have appeared on the other side.

 

[samsnee]

More than likely she was first cast in Civil War. Then Luke Cage came along and she gave an amazing audition. So what are you going to do? Not give her the role just because she was in the movie for 10 minutes?

 

[Best]

This time it was out of Marvel's... Or the film division's hands. Besides the fact that they got to her first. It's OK either way, very tiny scene.

Also I'm genuinely shocked at how well (or much better) Hawkeye was used in this film. Seriously, this was probably the best out of his 3 appearances despite possibly being the smallest.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Meh I thought he was great but he was in it for like 4 minutes.

 

[BobJM]

More than likely she was first cast in Civil War. Then Luke Cage came along and she gave an amazing audition. So what are you going to do? Not give her the role just because she was in the movie for 10 minutes?

No, but seemed like the scene would have been ripe for a reshoot with a different actress.