The Clinton Thread II - Part 3

[Donner]

Why does every election have to be about change? Hillary wanted to keep Obama's legacy going and that's a bad thing because...?

 

[chaseter]

Why does every election have to be about change? Hillary wanted to keep Obama's legacy going and that's a bad thing because...?

Obamacare is a mess, ISIS has grown unchecked, we have the lowest GDP growth under Obama...ever, the national debt has doubled.

What legacy?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Obamacare is a mess, ISIS has grown unchecked, we have the lowest GDP growth under Obama...ever, the national debt has doubled.

What legacy?

When a program that is helping 20 million people has problems, you don't get rid of it. You fix it. Also, what's Trump going to do if he bankrupts this country? Start another one?

 

[Donner]

ISIS is losing ground, unemployment is at its lowest level in almost a decade, the GDP has increased under his presidency, Obamacare has its issues, but it does insure a lot of people who normally wouldn't have it (like people with pre-existing conditions), he passed legislation to combat climate change (which is a real and man made thing), he ended the ridiculousness that was the embargo with Cuba, he presided over the SC ruling to legalize gay marriage across the US, minimum wage increased under his administration, etc etc. I would say not bad what he did and certainly some things worth keeping and expanding on.

 

[BoredGuy]

shhhhhh
don't present the trolls with facts
Herr Drumpf's supporters don't like facts

 

[regwec]

It was a dereliction of duty on the part of the Democrats to pick such a flawed and unlikable candidate. The fact that this dereliction was so eclipsed by the Republican's acceptance of a vicious sociopath like Trump as their leader does not wash the blame away. Nobody has any right to feel smug or superior about this.

 

[Kelly]

When a program that is helping 20 million people has problems, you don't get rid of it. You fix it. Also, what's Trump going to do if he bankrupts this country? Start another one?

Yep, because the banks won't bail him out of that one...

 

[Kelly]

It was a dereliction of duty on the part of the Democrats to pick such a flawed and unlikable candidate. The fact that this dereliction was so eclipsed by the Republican's acceptance of a vicious sociopath like Trump as their leader does not wash the blame away. Nobody has any right to feel smug or superior about this.

No, it was the dereliction of duty for the ******** democrats to sit on their asses at home and not vote because their feelings were hurt.

 

[BestGirl]

It was a dereliction of duty on the part of the Democrats to pick such a flawed and unlikable candidate. The fact that this dereliction was so eclipsed by the Republican's acceptance of a vicious sociopath like Trump as their leader does not wash the blame away. Nobody has any right to feel smug or superior about this.

I was praying Bernie would win the nomination because I was afraid something like this would happen. People flat out don't like Hillary and her presence was guaranteed to galvanize Republicans to get out and vote.

 

[Anita18]

Honestly, I don't think it would have mattered much who the Dems ran. Trump is the pendulum swinging away from Obama, just as Obama was the pendulum swinging away from GWB. This shows up all the time in history, these extreme swings back and forth. Just looks a little different each time.

Trump just happened to be at the right place at the right time. Romney said less extreme things and lost. Howard Dean did one awkward scream and lost. Trump got lucky.

The missing POC voters weren't going to show up for Bernie. They didn't show up for him during the primaries. I guess they just didn't care. I wish I and many of my friends didn't care.

 

[regwec]

Anita, I can see the appeal in that view, but I don't believe it. It requires something more than a distaste for the prosaic virtue-signalling of Obama to thrust people into the tiny orange hands of a venal megalomaniac like Trump.

 

[BestGirl]

There's obviously no way of knowing but I suspect a fair number of votes Trump received were more anti-Hillary than pro-him. This is just based on the frothing anti-Hillary rage I've seen online from conservatives over the years.

 

[Anita18]

Anita, I can see the appeal in that view, but I don't believe it. It requires something more than a distaste for the prosaic virtue-signalling of Obama to thrust people into the tiny orange hands of a venal megalomaniac like Trump.

We don't know if it's the same voters who switched though. Maybe they stayed home this time, and it was the racist folks who went the polls instead. With such a high percentage of the population not voting, it's hard to tell what's going on on an individual voter scale.

 

[Legendver2]

There's obviously no way of knowing but I suspect a fair number of votes Trump received were more anti-Hillary than pro-him. This is just based on the frothing anti-Hillary rage I've seen online from conservatives over the years.

There's truth to that. I see more posts on Facebook, reddit, and other forums cheering the fact that Hillary lost, than celebrating a Trump win.

 

[BoredGuy]

that's because nobody who voted for him knows what they just voted for

just "rabble rabble, friggin clintons rabble.."

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Obamacare is a mess, ISIS has grown unchecked, we have the lowest GDP growth under Obama...ever, the national debt has doubled.

What legacy?

One of my best friends son's is a heart baby. He's 3 1/2 and has already had 3 heart surgeries all thanks to Obamacare and insurance companies having to accept pre-existing conditions. McConnell has already vowed to repeal Obamacare. They are literally going to kill people.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The American people killed that kid with their shortsighted stupidity.

 

[DeadPresident]

Look, it's clear you don't know how to come up with even a barely-relevant analogy, so please don't even try. We busted our ass for the candidate who was backing proposals that would fix this country. We got spat and insulted at in return, and told to get in line and vote for the less s**tty candidate. If there is anyone who fits your fat Roman emperor analogy, it is Hillbots like you that got so used to the decadence of Washington and the political establishment that you masked your own apathy for the concerns of the people of this country with your incremental gradualism. People voted for Obama because they wanted change. This time, it was Trump promised them change, while Hillary swore to continue the legacy of her predecessor. Read between the f***king lines. You and Hillary are ultimately responsible for this mess. You chose the wrong candidate and the wrong f***king strategy.



Oh please get off your high horse. When you get rid of the stars and stripes jingoism, there is very little that differentiates us from the "socialist" Canadians or Europeans that we think are so inferior to us (despite them being ahead of us in everything from education to employment to healthcare).

I'm not American, I didn't vote for Hillary, and I think she was a horrible candidate. The democrats picked literally the only person who could lose to Trump.

What I am though is someone from a country that knows fascism extremely intimately, and I also had the privilege of staying in the US for three years when I was younger. I recognize after this election that people like you are ignorant simply because the USA doesn't know how fascism grows or what it even looks like, so there's no way for you to protect against it.

There is a difference, those Europeans know how it looks because they lived through it, their hackles come up when something even vaguely resembling it rears its head. The USA is blissfully ignorant of authoritarian rule, the only thing they know about it is they stopped it seventy years ago.

It's amazing how me talking about Trump's deficits has you calling me a "Hillbot" when for the last week all I was doing here was saying she should account for her actions. The Americans really seem to have a psychotic obsession with their bipartisan religion. Hopefully you and people like haven't put America's own Kristallnacht firmly on the agenda. Whatever happens from here on out, you and similarly uncaring people have a hand in it.

 

[Legendver2]

Hillary says she'll work with Trump to heal the division of America. How she gonna do that?

"To all the little girls watching...never doubt that you are valuable and powerful & deserving of every chance & opportunity in the world."

Clinton said that the US had not "shattered that highest and hardest ceiling," referring to the fact that, if elected, she would have become the first female president in the nation's history.

"Someday, somebody will," she said.

That part got me though in her concession speech.

 

[TMC1982]

What did Hillary do wrong? Do you think she should have tried to appeal to working-class people more? It sure seemed to me that each candidate went after certain segments of society while ignoring others.

Also, which singular factor was most responsible for Hillary's loss?

• Muslim terror attacks/Syrian refugees
  
  The Trans movement
  
  Anthony Weiner
  
  Her bad health
  
  Clinton Foundation corruption
  
  NAFTA/Bill's legacy
  
  Black Lives Matter
  
  The "deplorables" comment
  
  Benghazi
  
  General anti-establishment sentiments

 

[chaseter]

When a program that is helping 20 million people has problems, you don't get rid of it. You fix it. Also, what's Trump going to do if he bankrupts this country? Start another one?

Obamacare does nothing to attack costs of healthcare...which is why 20 million people can't afford healthcare. All it did was change how taxpayers pay for the 20 million people's healthcare. Follow me here on this crazy journey. Before Obamacare, people that couldn't afford insurance would go to the ER and get free healthcare because you can't turn people away from the ER. The people with insurance were making up the difference. Now under Obamacare, the people that still can't afford insurance have insurance and guess who is paying for that? The people that were already paying for it. Wouldn't you think that making healthcare more accessible by lowering costs through legislating against profiteering drug companies, fostering insurance competition to end monopolies, and reigning in malpractice would help lower costs? No...that makes too much sense. They instead write a 10,000+ nightmare that has a fine attached. Hey you poor people that can't afford healthcare...we are going to fine you if you don't sign up.

Idiotic.

I'm all for universal coverage but you need penalties for people that make bad life choices, like weighing 300lbs, and if you don't want insurance, you shouldn't be forced to buy it.

 

[chaseter]

One of my best friends son's is a heart baby. He's 3 1/2 and has already had 3 heart surgeries all thanks to Obamacare and insurance companies having to accept pre-existing conditions. McConnell has already vowed to repeal Obamacare. They are literally going to kill people.

They will repeal and replace. They aren't going to rip away healthcare.

 

[chaseter]

ISIS is losing ground, unemployment is at its lowest level in almost a decade, the GDP has increased under his presidency, Obamacare has its issues, but it does insure a lot of people who normally wouldn't have it (like people with pre-existing conditions), he passed legislation to combat climate change (which is a real and man made thing), he ended the ridiculousness that was the embargo with Cuba, he presided over the SC ruling to legalize gay marriage across the US, minimum wage increased under his administration, etc etc. I would say not bad what he did and certainly some things worth keeping and expanding on.

Unemployment is the lowest it's been in a decade when a recession happened 9 years ago!?

You don't say!!!!!!

GDP increases after the bottom falls out as well. A literal child could sit behind the chair in the Oval Office and have GDP increase after a recession. As long as you don't choke the economy, it will grow on its own. The GDP under Obama is the lowest average in half a century. He hasn't seen a year over 3%. We are growing at a snail's pace. The recession was almost a decade ago. How long ago can you ride that excuse?

I'm for climate change legislation but I've seen nothing dramatic. Bush passed climate change legislation.

Minimum wage under Bush increased and it will under Trump if he gets 8 years. Quote me on that.

Gay marriage equality was coming with or without Obama. It was just a matter of time. Obama was against gay marriage his first term.

Pretty mediocre legacy IMO.

 

[souvlaki]

No, it was the dereliction of duty for the ******** democrats to sit on their asses at home and not vote because their feelings were hurt.

This is partly true but Hillary in retrospect was a pretty lousy candidate and I say that as someone who supported her since she announced last year. But I've known since 2008 she is horrible when she is campaigning but I suspect she would have made a great president. That being said Sanders never would have gotten elected either. Looking back at why she lost I'm honestly unsure who would have won. There was a time I thought Warren could have but I doubt that now. Sherrod Brown probably could have tapped into the rage felt by both Sanders and Trump voters that belong to the white working class while still being more palatable than Sanders. It's possible Biden could have pulled this off but he is so gaffe prone that I really don't know considering how irresponsible the media was this cycle by more or less handling Trump with kids gloves this entire election while treating every Clinton scandal as if it's somehow equal to Trump's worst moments. This election was a freebie from Republicans and Democrats blew it. But Clinton's campaign held just as much responsibility for this outcome as Sanders supporters who didn't vote or voted third party. I also hold the media responsible for this. They built Trump up for ratings and created a monster. So much for the liberal biased media.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

The party machinery wouldn't have been as strong for Sanders if he won and he wouldn't have been able to fundraise for advertising as well as Clinton did. There was the belief that Bloomberg was also threatening to run as a third-party centrist option if the election came down to Trump and Sanders.