The Clinton Thread II

[Thundercrack85]

The right thing to do is for Sanders to retract his endorsement for Clinton, but he won't because he has no spine.



Agreed. She would've beaten Obama last time if she didn't bury herself by telling the Bosnia sniper fire lie.

Maybe he cares more about the future of his country than a vendetta.

 

[DKDetective]

You ask citizens as a whole, and the majority will say....we need universal health care, there are too many guns in circulation, far too many deaths from those guns.....the political suicide comes at the hands of the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ not the general population. AND YES YOU CAN...the first time I heard what Hillary Clinton's actual religion was....was today. She's Methodist....YES, to certain pockets of voters, religion is important....but when you ask them to rank what they think is important issues, how religious the candidate is is just not that important...hell, Trump was polled as being the least religious of all of the candidates and he is now the GOP candidate, Out of the top 6 candidates in the primaries Clinton was ranked 4th and Trump 6th as most religious....and they are now the candidates. Now when asked about a President that does not believe God, then yeah.... about 1/2 say they would be less likely to vote for that candidate....but again, that sure as hell is "all" which is what a "general" statement paints.

No I'm not in denial....I've been following this stuff for a hell of a long time, no denial here.....simply a distaste for people making generalizations about a nation of 300 + million. That is all....

Yeah, but I never made a generalization about all Americans. I said that Republicans and American conservatives are out of step with most other developed, liberal democratic nations, and their continued electoral success reflect poorly on the US. I said that the sort of positions they take with considerable success would be political suicide somewhere like Canada. You need only look at the official 2012 Republican platform (since the 2016 isn't out yet).

As I have said in other threads, the majority of Americans are urban, cosmopolitan, multicultural, and in step with the rest of the developed world in terms of attitudes regarding social issues and government's role. Unfortunately, there is a very large minority who are not and continue to fight social and cultural battles that have become accepted consensus in other developed nations. I'm sorry, but that fact that this large, powerful minority exists in the US suggests that the US is out of step with the rest of the developed world. The source of this deviation is a complicated historical question, without a clear answer, but it is a worrying deviation nonetheless.

I mean if American society had come to the same political consensus as other developed nations, Hilary would be leading Trump and the Republicans by much larger margins. In 2004, there was a Canadian general election between the Liberal Party, which had ruled for the previous 10 years and was in the middle of a huge corruption scandal, and the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party campaigned against abortion, single-payer health care, same sex marriage, etc. and lost. Despite the huge Liberal Party scandal, the Conservative position on substantive issues killed them. All the Liberal leader, Martin, had to do was say that the Conservatives would take away public health care and they stayed in power with a large majority of Canadians voting for left-of-centre parties. That was over a decade ago...

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Maybe he cares more about the future of his country than a vendetta.

Say what you will about Ted Cruz or even Ron Paul, but they are men of convictions. Bernie Sanders was supposed to be a man of conviction. If he gets up there and hypes up Clinton just so the "lesser of two evils" wins, then he's just another bought and sold politician whose revolution was just a guise. At least that's how many will see it. Had he been beaten fair and square, then maybe this would be easier for him. He was fighting the establishment based on corruption of campaign finance and he was proven to be beaten by corruption of campaign finance and yet he's still willing to endorse the very people that do the very thing he says is the biggest problem this country has? And he thinks he has the stuff to lead a revolution? I voted for Sanders because of his take on campaign finance. I pray he doesn't let me down.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Say what you will about Ted Cruz or even Ron Paul, but they are men of convictions. Bernie Sanders was supposed to be a man of conviction. If he gets up there and hypes up Clinton just so the "lesser of two evils" wins, then he's just another bought and sold politician whose revolution was just a guise. At least that's how many will see it. Had he been beaten fair and square, then maybe this would be easier for him. He was fighting the establishment based on corruption of campaign finance and he was proven to be beaten by corruption of campaign finance and yet he's still willing to endorse the very people that do the very thing he says is the biggest problem this country has? And he thinks he has the stuff to lead a revolution? I voted for Sanders because of his take on campaign finance. I pray he doesn't let me down.

Sanders was always more about his ideas and policies than he was himself. He stepped down to Clinton, as he should have based on the primary results, however in order to get his endorsement his campaign made HRC's make certain of his policy ideas part of her platform.

This whole "Bernie sold out" line of thinking is nonsensical and childish. He was beaten but in the end got to bring the Clinton campaign a little farther to the Left. This is not a bad thing. Now compare that to someone like Ron Paul who everyone loves to cite as the pinnacle of political integrity, yet none of this ideas ever really get adopted.

Don't get me wrong, I like Sanders. I think he was just too far past his prime and I think that cost him in the primaries vs Clinton. His perfect time to have run for President would've been back in 2004 when John Kerry ran against GWB.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Say what you will about Ted Cruz or even Ron Paul, but they are men of convictions. Bernie Sanders was supposed to be a man of conviction. If he gets up there and hypes up Clinton just so the "lesser of two evils" wins, then he's just another bought and sold politician whose revolution was just a guise. At least that's how many will see it. Had he been beaten fair and square, then maybe this would be easier for him. He was fighting the establishment based on corruption of campaign finance and he was proven to be beaten by corruption of campaign finance and yet he's still willing to endorse the very people that do the very thing he says is the biggest problem this country has? And he thinks he has the stuff to lead a revolution? I voted for Sanders because of his take on campaign finance. I pray he doesn't let me down.

Some would argue that Sanders' endorsement of Clinton was a calculated move; that holding off on admitting defeat for so long was what got the DNC to adopt many of his policies for their platform. He is also still asking his supporters to continue their revolution by supporting like-minded progressives in federal, state and local elections. I also think his campaign is still running in an effort to support them in the down ticket.

I agree with the notion that endorsing Clinton was a gut punch, but I think Sanders realizes that the change he was fighting for is larger than the presidency, as he is urging supporters to continue the fight.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

Don't get me wrong, I like Sanders. I think he was just too far past his prime and I think that cost him in the primaries vs Clinton. His perfect time to have run for President would've been back in 2004 when John Kerry ran against GWB.

i like bernie too, but he was never going to win a general election. obama had to bat away the socialist label in 08 and 12 because the mere word scares half the country, even if they don't know why it does, and so having an open socialist in the general would be a republicans dream. add in bernie's risque fan fiction which the r's would have exploited til the cows come home and you have someone who's probably looking at a 38-40 percent ceiling in the general, and i think i'm being generous with that number. and in '04, kerry's service helped him greatly win the nomination because of the 9/11 climate the country was still in. bernie's biggest weakness is foreign policy, he would have had even less of a chance that year than '16.

 

[Kelly]

Yeah, but I never made a generalization about all Americans. I said that Republicans and American conservatives are out of step with most other developed, liberal democratic nations, and their continued electoral success reflect poorly on the US. I said that the sort of positions they take with considerable success would be political suicide somewhere like Canada. You need only look at the official 2012 Republican platform (since the 2016 isn't out yet).

As I have said in other threads, the majority of Americans are urban, cosmopolitan, multicultural, and in step with the rest of the developed world in terms of attitudes regarding social issues and government's role. Unfortunately, there is a very large minority who are not and continue to fight social and cultural battles that have become accepted consensus in other developed nations. I'm sorry, but that fact that this large, powerful minority exists in the US suggests that the US is out of step with the rest of the developed world. The source of this deviation is a complicated historical question, without a clear answer, but it is a worrying deviation nonetheless.

I mean if American society had come to the same political consensus as other developed nations, Hilary would be leading Trump and the Republicans by much larger margins. In 2004, there was a Canadian general election between the Liberal Party, which had ruled for the previous 10 years and was in the middle of a huge corruption scandal, and the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party campaigned against abortion, single-payer health care, same sex marriage, etc. and lost. Despite the huge Liberal Party scandal, the Conservative position on substantive issues killed them. All the Liberal leader, Martin, had to do was say that the Conservatives would take away public health care and they stayed in power with a large majority of Canadians voting for left-of-centre parties. That was over a decade ago...

No, that is not what you said....I understand your clarification now, but that is not what you said.

It's crazy how out of touch with the rest of the civilized world the US is.

 

[Nokio]

All these comments are moot becuase Trump has this now, its his to lose. Idont get why the deocratic leadership is so beholden to the Clintons. They are dated political figuers and she is running a 90's campaign. I had hopes for Sanders but in the end the math was to great for him to overcome. Clinton is the embodiment of the establishment and everything wrong with politics. She slapped us in the face with Kaine. I really thought she was gonna go outside the box for her running mate and she picked another career politician who they are gonna tell is is progressive. They are clueless and its why Trump is winning. This man dispatched 17 candidates in the primary and what doea Clinton do? Double down in what they did and thinking she is gonna beat him based on some notion that in the general he wouldnt be acceptable. They dont get it.

 

[Nokio]

Some would argue that Sanders' endorsement of Clinton was a calculated move; that holding off on admitting defeat for so long was what got the DNC to adopt many of his policies for their platform. He is also still asking his supporters to continue their revolution by supporting like-minded progressives in federal, state and local elections. I also think his campaign is still running in an effort to support them in the down ticket.

I agree with the notion that endorsing Clinton was a gut punch, but I think Sanders realizes that the change he was fighting for is larger than the presidency, as he is urging supporters to continue the fight.

Sanders shouldve forced her @ss to pick a progressive running mate and not another career politician. The notion that Kaine is going to make white men vote for her somehow is simply ludacris. That kind of thinking is old and dated. Clinton is a 92 Honda Civic with a 2016 stero system. Same old 90's car trying to be with the times.

 

[Kelly]

You put a running mate with her that is more liberal than she is, and the Republican House stays the same, which it probably will.....then you get absolutely nothing done. NOTHING....zilch. You put someone in that knows the House and Senate, that knows these men and women, and is respected by them on both sides of the aisle, you have a far better chance of getting something done. They (Republican House and Senate) would have FOR SURE totally turned their backs on Bernie. As bad as it sounds, you have to know how to play the game. The game rules are not changing anytime soon....I want to see some work get done. It may be the same as with Obama, I don't know...but I don't think it will be worse.

If Trump wins....well....it would be interesting at least....but the thought kind of makes me nauseous.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

one reason trump got a nice convention bounce is because a large swath of republicans who were anti-him/holding out came over after last week. in contrast, in 2012 romney had already solidified the support of the party, so there was only a 1,2 point bump for him after his convention as there just wasn't much left to soak up. with that in mind, the d's really have a great lineup of political 'stars' speaking this week and they'll no doubt move the needle back in their direction. as has been said a million times, polls are really irrelevant until after labor day/the first debate.

now, speaking of those republicans (and moderates/i's) who shifted a bit towards trump after the convention, well, tim kaine is their kind of democrat. his roll-out got a little overshadowed by the dws drama, but now he gets a chance to shine on the national stage and he's going to appeal to those blue collar workers in the rust belt/midwest. had hillary gone with an elizabeth warren, all she'd do is appeal to the base, and that's not enough to win the general. there has to be some appeal to the middle imho. a great example of this is the last two r nominees, mccain and romney. they were generally viewed like hillary, as centrists within their party, which also gave them appeal to sympahteic democrats and moderates. however, they went with running mates that only appealed to their base, thereby limiting their chances in the general.

 

[Legendver2]

What are the chances of Sanders pulling a Ted Cruz at the convention?

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

my guess is .01 % chance. the headline tomorrow this time is going to be bernie gave a rousing speech about defeating trump.

 

[Kelly]

What are the chances of Sanders pulling a Ted Cruz at the convention?

Don't see it happening...

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

i think there is a chance for drama tonight, but that's only if enough sanders delegates manage to make a stink on the convention floor.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

What are the chances of Sanders pulling a Ted Cruz at the convention?

Hillary didn't dump on his wife nor did she insinuate that his father killed JFK, so I'm guessing 0% chance.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

maybe the real plot twist is cruz comes onto the dnc stage tonight wearing a blank-eating-grin and a #nevertrump tee-shirt.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

He'd still be booed even louder than he was at the RNC

 

[SuperT]

You mean the DNC didn't want to throw support behind a guy that wasn't even a Democrat to begin with and completely hijacked their entire platform during the primaries.

Will wonders never cease!

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

will the bernie or buster delegates give us drama to rival last week's rnc? tune in to find out:

CSPAN DNC Day One Live Stream

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

audible chants of "bernie! bernie!" during the invocation of all things.

this is gonna be an entertaining convention.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

If George Bush is the decider, Hillary is the uniter.

https://***********/maydnusa/status/757646952381186048

 

[Matt Mortem]

Right now Bernie's supporters are an invaluable tool for the Trump campaign. They don't seem to grasp that by fighting Clinton on the nomination and stirring the pot that they are ACTIVELY supporting Trump's candidacy.

 

[Victarion]

Right now Bernie's supporters are an invaluable tool for the Trump campaign. They don't seem to grasp that by fighting Clinton on the nomination and stirring the pot that they are ACTIVELY supporting Trump's candidacy.

They're confused.

Some of them were booing DWS earlier. Some of them were booing Bernie.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

If George Bush is the decider, Hillary is the uniter.

https://***********/maydnusa/status/757646952381186048

Two conventions. One chant. "Lock Her Up!" Who says Dems & Republicans can't agree? #DemsInPhilly #LockHerUp

the berners ought to give the rnc some easy alley oops, tho i'm not sure if the sanders people will last through thursday, they might be out of here after tonight.