Dark Phoenix $ The DARK PHOENIX Box Office Speculation ThreaD $

Maybe in this site, and recently (some years ago you would be banned for not praising the mcu, to put an example), that does not mean that most of the people from most other sites do. Reddit for example, thanks to their completely broken and ironically called "karma" system, you cannot say one flaw about the mcu or you get downvoted to hell, stopping you from even being able of making comments.

I like, and this is gonna sound crazy, but i like... Good movies, you know, the kind we barely get because hollywood is a factory of prefabricated products that have been assembled by a marketing team with a template to be as generic and formulaic and possible to get your money in an instant but lefting you with zero artistic satisfaction?

Logan was barely "dark", and it was a just ok movie with a lot of flaws, overall it was a wasted chance.
DP is a NOT FUNNY comedy, it is pretty stupid and a wasted chance of what could have been an actually good superhero satire, but they were content with making it in the laziest way possible. And the "comedy" segments or movies in the mcu are beyond cringe worthy.
I love comedy and funny stuff, i just dont like it when the comedy is bad, forced, and just not funny. I like my funny stuff to be actually funny, crazy to say that in a world where people actually laugh with a movie like Deadpool 2 or Ant-Man & The Wasp, i know.

Now, WW and Aquaman are just ok movies, i like them, but they are nothing special and since i watched them at theaters once i dont feel like watching them again, they dont have replay value.

Regarding the mcu, since i was a kid that i watched Iron Man in theaters i thought to myself: "That was not bad, but it was too simple and too humorous" Interesting enough, they have gone backwards with the tone, unlike by example the Harry Potter saga.
Instead of the mcu turning more dark and mature with the years, it became more childish and comedic, with the climax being Thor Ragnarok as THE shining example of everything wrong that disney gets and does with Marvel.
Is not that they made "pure light-hearted adventurism", is that they made light hearted movies mainly targeted at kids, where nothing happens, they are all the exact same movie, there are constant awfully forced jokes in the narrative that detract for the movies to have any kind of weight or emotional resonance (which includes twisting the characters just to fit one more joke), they all feel like a big tease to somehing that never comes, and a long list of etceteras.

This is my problem, to sum it up: All studios have mishandled the franchises they got. The one comic book based live action superhero franchise that gets what the source material is about and have wondefully translated that into the screen is the fox X-Men. In terms of quality, they are at the top. Everybody else is just doing random movies and then slapping a random franchise brand name on its movie title, specially disney.

Edit: And believe me, this is the short answer.
In the late 80's my family was having dinner w/a friend of my moms. I was somewhere between 8-11 yrs of age and bored out of my mind- my mom's friend had an older son so I was hanging out in his room and he had a collection of X-men comics. I spent the next three hours consuming them like they were crack. That's what started my love of comics-- growing up I never read Spider-man, Avengers, Batman or anything other than X-men (well i did read New Warriors too). As luck would have it a few months after that 'The Pryde of X-Men' debuted (an X-Men Cartoon) and it pretty much cemented my love for X-men.

Everyone has their own story and everyone has their own reasons why they personally connected with the X-Men for me it was quite a few things. There was the main overarching story of not being accepted cuz ur different and being gay that was definitely something I could connect with--- that is the most obvious reason and the one that most people reference, but for me there are some key things I really responded to and things that make the X-men feel like the X-men:

Team Dynamics: Everyone has their favorite X-men character and while Wolverine may have been a long time favorite he never overshadowed the team. The team dynamic is at the core of what I think of when I think of X-men- how they work together, how they fight together, how they problem solve together. Singer and Fox FAILED miserably at that. Wolverine is a one man show and sadly it was at the expense of everyone else. They got it in their head that they had to make him front and center to pull in the audience. They never challenged themselves to develop the other characters and to trust in the team dynamic. That's a problem MCU doesn't have. Iron Man may be the star, but they do an excellent job sharing the spotlight and making all the other characters feel needed and relevant---and more importantly they all get a chance to shine. This is just one example of how Fox got this one wrong-- i have a lot more to say and plenty more examples of their shortcomings specific to this point but this is going to be a long rant so I'll save it for later (if needed).

Portrayal of Women: I've always been drawn to strong female leads-- and when I say strong I'm not necessarily referring to brute strength. X-Men has the best gallery of female characters in all of comics by far, and it's not even close! They did an excellent job of pushing women to the forefront before it was popular to do so. They had women in positions of leadership and never regulated them to simply being objects of the main male characters desires. I actually think they played a HUGE role in how women in comics were subsequently featured. Fox and Singer FAILED miserably at that! Storm was portrayed as meek and reserved and although she was later promoted to leader of the team, she never demonstrated great leadership skills. Jean was a hot mess and Rogue was a sad shadow of herself. It's painfully obvious that Singer didn't have any plans to honor this theme that is one of the X-Men's greatest accomplishments.

Science: My love of science as an adult has its root in my early x-men readings. Science played a huge role in most stories. It helped to define limits, explain powers, and surfacefd when characters were having to overcome obstacles. Bringing in more science elements to the characters also showcases how smart and creative they can be--- having Storm come up with creative ways to use her powers was a HUGE missed opportunity by Singer and Fox-- she ever only floated in slow motion...LAME! So I give fox and Singer a FAIL! (I've got ton more examples ready to go if you would like)

Interpersonal Relationships: This fits in w/the team dynamics but it's at the heart of the essence of the team I wanted to highlight it. The interpersonal dynamics was the unified glue of the team. I simply don't recognize any of those characters. That wasn't the Cyclops, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Iceman, Colossus, Emma Frost, Gambit, or Psylocke I grew up with. And please don't misunderstand, I'm not commenting on how franchises take liberties with storylines and character bios-- I'm perfectly fine with them changes things up to best fit the medium they are in. You can switch things around as long as you keep intact the essence of each character. I got a grade for how I feel Fox and Singer did.... F as in FAIL!

To me the points that I highlighted are the ones that I most identify as essential to telling a good X-men story. I'm thankful for the first two X-men movies and I think Fox needs to be credited for leading the way and where we are today so that has to be pointed out but with that said Fox and Singer have had the X-men property for 20 years- that's more than enough time to get there sh!t together, so with that said I am counting down the days till the X-men can fold into the MCU and I'm hoping I will finally get a movie that honors the X-men in a way I feel they haven't been yet.
 
You just nailed it big time, man. I couldnt have said it better myself.

the only thing I'll add is the core love relationships: Cyclops and Jean were never the only couple of the x-men, the +50 years of x-men comics have developed a lot of popular love relationships (we all know them), but Fox and Singer only cared (a bit) about Cyclops and Jean (and Wolverine). Thats all.

You just cant spend 20 years with his property having all these great x-men and only develop 1 love relationship (and really in a bad way at that). No man.
This is why Singer and Kinberg never were and never will be the right guys for this team/comic.
so yeah, Im 100% ready for Marvel and Feige to take over and pay more respect to the source material.
 
Ok, well "good movies" and "not funny" are kind of vague terms, but that's alright
that's your.. unique.. opinion and I and many others will just have to strongly disagree with it

Not really, but whatever, is good to talk about this.

In the late 80's my family was having dinner w/a friend of my moms. I was somewhere between 8-11 yrs of age and bored out of my mind- my mom's friend had an older son so I was hanging out in his room and he had a collection of X-men comics. I spent the next three hours consuming them like they were crack. That's what started my love of comics-- growing up I never read Spider-man, Avengers, Batman or anything other than X-men (well i did read New Warriors too). As luck would have it a few months after that 'The Pryde of X-Men' debuted (an X-Men Cartoon) and it pretty much cemented my love for X-men.

Everyone has their own story and everyone has their own reasons why they personally connected with the X-Men for me it was quite a few things. There was the main overarching story of not being accepted cuz ur different and being gay that was definitely something I could connect with--- that is the most obvious reason and the one that most people reference, but for me there are some key things I really responded to and things that make the X-men feel like the X-men:

Team Dynamics: Everyone has their favorite X-men character and while Wolverine may have been a long time favorite he never overshadowed the team. The team dynamic is at the core of what I think of when I think of X-men- how they work together, how they fight together, how they problem solve together. Singer and Fox FAILED miserably at that. Wolverine is a one man show and sadly it was at the expense of everyone else. They got it in their head that they had to make him front and center to pull in the audience. They never challenged themselves to develop the other characters and to trust in the team dynamic. That's a problem MCU doesn't have. Iron Man may be the star, but they do an excellent job sharing the spotlight and making all the other characters feel needed and relevant---and more importantly they all get a chance to shine. This is just one example of how Fox got this one wrong-- i have a lot more to say and plenty more examples of their shortcomings specific to this point but this is going to be a long rant so I'll save it for later (if needed).

Portrayal of Women: I've always been drawn to strong female leads-- and when I say strong I'm not necessarily referring to brute strength. X-Men has the best gallery of female characters in all of comics by far, and it's not even close! They did an excellent job of pushing women to the forefront before it was popular to do so. They had women in positions of leadership and never regulated them to simply being objects of the main male characters desires. I actually think they played a HUGE role in how women in comics were subsequently featured. Fox and Singer FAILED miserably at that! Storm was portrayed as meek and reserved and although she was later promoted to leader of the team, she never demonstrated great leadership skills. Jean was a hot mess and Rogue was a sad shadow of herself. It's painfully obvious that Singer didn't have any plans to honor this theme that is one of the X-Men's greatest accomplishments.

Science: My love of science as an adult has its root in my early x-men readings. Science played a huge role in most stories. It helped to define limits, explain powers, and surfacefd when characters were having to overcome obstacles. Bringing in more science elements to the characters also showcases how smart and creative they can be--- having Storm come up with creative ways to use her powers was a HUGE missed opportunity by Singer and Fox-- she ever only floated in slow motion...LAME! So I give fox and Singer a FAIL! (I've got ton more examples ready to go if you would like)

Interpersonal Relationships: This fits in w/the team dynamics but it's at the heart of the essence of the team I wanted to highlight it. The interpersonal dynamics was the unified glue of the team. I simply don't recognize any of those characters. That wasn't the Cyclops, Storm, Jean, Rogue, Iceman, Colossus, Emma Frost, Gambit, or Psylocke I grew up with. And please don't misunderstand, I'm not commenting on how franchises take liberties with storylines and character bios-- I'm perfectly fine with them changes things up to best fit the medium they are in. You can switch things around as long as you keep intact the essence of each character. I got a grade for how I feel Fox and Singer did.... F as in FAIL!

To me the points that I highlighted are the ones that I most identify as essential to telling a good X-men story. I'm thankful for the first two X-men movies and I think Fox needs to be credited for leading the way and where we are today so that has to be pointed out but with that said Fox and Singer have had the X-men property for 20 years- that's more than enough time to get there sh!t together, so with that said I am counting down the days till the X-men can fold into the MCU and I'm hoping I will finally get a movie that honors the X-men in a way I feel they haven't been yet.

Thanks for sharing your opinion and your story, i appreciate it. However (and for the record, i never said the X-Men franchise was without flaws) that does not mean that they are bad movies, or bad adaptations. They have kept the essence even changin a lot of stuff from a lot of things.

And this what i cannot for the life of me understand: Everybody is always complaining "oh yeah sony/fox/warner totally mishandles the stories and characters" but disney does this too, half of the mcu movies are bad, they have mishandled complete stories and characters, wasted big chances to do a lot of great stuff, yet they are praised as if they were the example of filmmaking quality and faithfulness to the source, they completely ignore all the stuff they get wrong, why?

You say that fox has yet to deliver the X-Men of the movie they deserve, but when has disney done that for any of the characters? They never did, the closest they got was with the Captain America trilogy and is still flawed, the complaints everybody has over anything that is not the mcu is all over the mcu, yet they seem to look the other side regarding all its flaws, and is not like the little good stuff they did overcomes all the bad stuff.

So i dont get it, complaining about what all companies including disney get wrong but saying that only disney get its right it makes no sense.
 
Not really, but whatever, is good to talk about this.



Thanks for sharing your opinion and your story, i appreciate it. However (and for the record, i never said the X-Men franchise was without flaws) that does not mean that they are bad movies, or bad adaptations. They have kept the essence even changin a lot of stuff from a lot of things.

And this what i cannot for the life of me understand: Everybody is always complaining "oh yeah sony/fox/warner totally mishandles the stories and characters" but disney does this too, half of the mcu movies are bad, they have mishandled complete stories and characters, wasted big chances to do a lot of great stuff, yet they are praised as if they were the example of filmmaking quality and faithfulness to the source, they completely ignore all the stuff they get wrong, why?

You say that fox has yet to deliver the X-Men of the movie they deserve, but when has disney done that for any of the characters? They never did, the closest they got was with the Captain America trilogy and is still flawed, the complaints everybody has over anything that is not the mcu is all over the mcu, yet they seem to look the other side regarding all its flaws, and is not like the little good stuff they did overcomes all the bad stuff.

So i dont get it, complaining about what all companies including disney get wrong but saying that only disney get its right it makes no sense.
This is where I strongly disagree with you, respectfully though. I never cared about Captain America, Iron Man, or Thor and the Gang (lol...sounds like a band), but MCU found a way to make me care. When I go back and read the old stories they borrowed from, in my opinon, the MCU movies are better. U can't for the life of me tell me that X3 was better than the comic's Phoenix Saga, can you? I was very very clear in my post to mention that I don't have a problem with people changing things and taking liberties to help best suit the medium that the stories are being told-- MCU has maintanied the essense of their characters they act, talk, and feel lilke the comic-counterparts. X-men has FAILED at this. I don't recognize Cyclops, Storm, Jean, Psylocke, Gambit, Iceman, Beast--- none of them maintain any integrity from the comic counter parts. If you disagree with that even after I was explicit and detailed in my post then I don't think i can anything that will make you see where I'm coming from. All i can say is be thankful you had 20 years with Fox (you seem to be happy w/their product)-- and I'm thankful that there ride is finally over and very enthused that MCU gets their turn. You as a fan got what you wanted, me as an Xmen fan didn't so i'm happy I finally get a real shot and what I'm looking for.
 


The "negative screenings" have been debunked as fake, and even if they were true, they come from the minds of people who disliked the movie from even before it started getting made, their opinions come from biased prejudice and therefore cannot be taken seriously.

This is where I strongly disagree with you, respectfully though. I never cared about Captain America, Iron Man, or Thor and the Gang (lol...sounds like a band), but MCU found a way to make me care. When I go back and read the old stories they borrowed from, in my opinon, the MCU movies are better. U can't for the life of me tell me that X3 was better than the comic's Phoenix Saga, can you? I was very very clear in my post to mention that I don't have a problem with people changing things and taking liberties to help best suit the medium that the stories are being told-- MCU has maintanied the essense of their characters they act, talk, and feel lilke the comic-counterparts. X-men has FAILED at this. I don't recognize Cyclops, Storm, Jean, Psylocke, Gambit, Iceman, Beast--- none of them maintain any integrity from the comic counter parts. If you disagree with that even after I was explicit and detailed in my post then I don't think i can anything that will make you see where I'm coming from. All i can say is be thankful you had 20 years with Fox (you seem to be happy w/their product)-- and I'm thankful that there ride is finally over and very enthused that MCU gets their turn. You as a fan got what you wanted, me as an Xmen fan didn't so i'm happy I finally get a real shot and what I'm looking for.

I never said that, what i said is that X3 is not the terrible movie everyone says it is, which is true!

The MCU has changed the essence of everyone but Captain America practically.
Look at Thor, Loki, Hulk, Odin and Hela in Thor Ragnarok by example: They are all 100% out of character. Look at Tony in Iron Man 3, he is a clown, the examples are endless, the problem is that they put "humoristic" storytelling over anything else, THAT is the single biggest flaw the mcu has.

X-Men have totally kept the essence of the characters and their stories, even thought they have changed lots of stuff, that is what any adaptation should do. They can and should do even better, but no company is gonna do it because we are not the target demographic, casual audiences are.

I doubt that after Captain Marvel/Avengers Endgame/Dark Phoenix i will ever gonna see another superhero movie in theaters, ALL OF THE STUDIOS have made too many mistakes and burned stories and characters too fast, stuff like Gotham Sirens, Shazam, Spiderman Far From Home, all the stuff sony is making and etc, they all look terrible and there is little chance they will not be terrible, so after those movies i mentioned i am out until something looks good, so i am feeling pretty indifferent at this point.
 
Let's agree to disagree. And it's like I said, you had 20 years of Fox and I"m happy it's coming to an end. And say what you want about MCU the fact is they have a far better track record of pleasing the masses than Fox does. You are in the major minority on this one for a reason, but to each his or her own. Praise God Fox is done with Xmen and Fantastic Four and praise God Marvel gets a crack at it.
 
Yeah sure, we can disagree, is just sad that the X-Men franchise is coming to an end. And yes, that is EXACTLY my point, the mcu is for casual audiences with a minimal pandering to the actual fans. The X-Men movies are for fans. I will not "praise God" that we will stop having quality movies because it is not something that makes me happy.
 
the x-men movies are for fans?
fans of what? Magneto and Charles? yiiikes.
most fans arent happy with Fox treatment to most of the x-men. where have you been these 19 years? :confused:
 
Is it just me ...or does anybody else feel the X-men aren't going to be utilized by the MCU the way everyone is hoping they will be?

IDK ... I have a funny feeling they are going to play second and third fiddle to the more "popular" MCU projects...

I guess we all have to do the waiting game and see ultimately...
 
Nope not at all. They aren't gonna get the Daredevil, Ghost Rider treatment.
 
the x-men movies are for fans?
fans of what? Magneto and Charles? yiiikes.
most fans arent happy with Fox treatment to most of the x-men. where have you been these 19 years? :confused:
THANK YOU! Fans of what- couldn't have said it better myself. That MewMewTwo is delusional and a hardcore Fox fan, but good for him. And good for the rest of the 'real fans' of Xmen who will be free of Fox. It's odd that that person doesn't seem to get that outcry from X-men fans for years and years. That person is under the impression that the xmen community at large is happy when in truth that's not been my experience with fans at all. But like I said, to each his or her own.
 
I mean, this is the boxoffice topic after all, so we only have to look to the x-men movies boxoffice to see the fans are anything but happy lol.

The X-Men always were at the top of the tops, but the movies (except Dofp) are the bottom of the bottom. That tells us everything about the perception of these movies.
 
I mean, this is the boxoffice topic after all, so we only have to look to the x-men movies boxoffice to see the fans are anything but happy lol.

The X-Men always were at the top of the tops, but the movies (except Dofp) are the bottom of the bottom. That tells us everything about the perception of these movies.
So very true! But you can even dig deeper than that. When you look at the best selling comics of all time, when you look at the titles that were constantly the best sellers, and when you look at big storylines that ignited big interest the X-Men ruled! The easily beat out Batman, Superman, Avengers, and Spider-man-- they were the cream of the crop. YOu compare that w/their popularity today and you compare that with box office of their movies and it's beyond shocking. You hit it right on the head... the box office numbers tell you everything you need to know. And I for one, want better for the Xmen, they deserve it!
 
no doubt.

Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Psylocke, Angel, Jubilee, Kitty and co. deserve much much more than what Fox and Kinberg have done.
 
the x-men movies are for fans?
fans of what? Magneto and Charles? yiiikes.
most fans arent happy with Fox treatment to most of the x-men. where have you been these 19 years? :confused:

X-Men comic books, obviously. And yeah, compared to what Disney/Sony and Warner did/do, they are a lot more for fans than casual audiences.

THANK YOU! Fans of what- couldn't have said it better myself. That MewMewTwo is delusional and a hardcore Fox fan, but good for him. And good for the rest of the 'real fans' of Xmen who will be free of Fox. It's odd that that person doesn't seem to get that outcry from X-men fans for years and years. That person is under the impression that the xmen community at large is happy when in truth that's not been my experience with fans at all. But like I said, to each his or her own.

Delusional? Do i have to report you? And no, i am not a "hardcore fan", i really love the stories and characters, i dont want them to be in mediocre movies made by family friendly Disney.

I missed the "outcry" from "fans" because i barely used the internet at the time, remember the franchise is practically 20 years old, and some people call themselves fans and then they say something like Thor Ragnarok is a great movie, rendering their opinions pointless.

I have no idea what the "community" thinks, but if it is the same people who wants every superhero franchise under the disney wing, i could care less about what they think, to be honest.
 
and some people call themselves fans and then they say something like Thor Ragnarok is a great movie, rendering their opinions pointless.

LMAO, best comment of the year. That's super-true.
 
Writer/Director/Producer Simon Kinberg didn't say Dark Phoenix "was very much inspired by" Ragnarok cause it sucked. The film was beloved by critics and fans, made $850M bucks and was a GD frikkin' delight. Laugh out loud hilarity with fantastic characters, amazing battles, gorgeous Kirby inspired designs, and a thoughtful plot about colonialism. Plus Led Zeppelin.
 
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Boxoffice.com were completely wrong about Deadpool

At the end of January 2016, the film was projected to earn $55–60 million over its opening weekend in the United States and Canada. It ultimately opened at No. 1, making $132.4 million for the weekend, and $152.2 million over the long Presidents' Day weekend.

Boxoffice.com are not omniscient.
 

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