DC Films The DC Studios News and Discussion Thread

[Flint Marko]

Easily the best live-action Superman sequence yet, I’d say.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Looking back, the SR plane sequence might be the only highlight and memorable thing out of the modern Superman films. Which is astonishing considering the amount of money and films they’ve spent on the character.

I will never stop being baffled at how WB managed to muck up Superman twice, in the golden age of superhero films. The stage was practically set for him to be the top dog of this business.

The plane rescue from SR is one of my favorite live action Superman sequences.
I still get chills watching it.

I also really like the part where he catches the daily planet globe.

And the flashbacks to when he was a kid on the farm.

There’s actually quite a bit that I like about that movie.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Cavill looks like he is spending half his concentration just on maintaining an American accent. It's visible in his performances. All of his deliveries are stiff as a rock because he fears his accent will slip otherwise.

 

[flickchick85]

Looking back, the SR plane sequence might be the only highlight and memorable thing out of the modern Superman films. Which is astonishing considering the amount of money and films they’ve spent on the character.

I will never stop being baffled at how WB managed to muck up Superman twice, in the golden age of superhero films. The stage was practically set for him to be the top dog of this business.

It's because they didn't have faith he was still relevant as he was. That's why they tossed away a perfectly good modern Superman script in favor of a director who was only interested in banking on nostalgia, and then, when that didn't work, a director who wanted to "deconstruct" him to make him all ~cool and edgy~. That's been the key to WB's ****-ups when it comes to their DC stable in general - not believing in the core appeal of the characters.

So while the heroes around him from other companies were getting mostly straight-forward, faithful adaptations tweaked for modern times that still honored what the characters were about, Supes was getting "alternate takes" determined to argue about why he could still be relevant. Instead of, you know, just letting him BE relevant like everybody else.

 

[misslane38]

It's because they didn't have faith he was still relevant as he was. That's why they tossed away a perfectly good modern Superman script in favor of a director who was only interested in banking on nostalgia, and then, when that didn't work, a director who wanted to "deconstruct" him to make him all ~cool and edgy~. That's been the key to WB's ****-ups when it comes to their DC stable in general - not believing in the core appeal of the characters.

So while the heroes around him from other companies were getting mostly straight-forward, faithful adaptations tweaked for modern times that still honored what the characters were about, Supes was getting "alternate takes" determined to argue about why he could still be relevant. Instead of, you know, just letting him BE relevant like everybody else.

While Snyder's take on Superman certainly wasn't in the classic mold, I don't think "cool" or "edgy" are adjectives that fit him either. To me, he's more of a shy outcast. His most defining characteristics are that he's soft-spoken, loves his mom and his girlfriend, reads philosophy, got bullied in school, and never fit in. I suppose, for some, that makes him a "darker" or "serious" Superman, but he's not cool or edgy by any means.

The thing both SR and MoS/BvS have in common is that the character is challenged more in terms of his relationships both personally and with the public. He's either beloved by the people but rejected by the woman he loves or beloved by the woman he loves but rejected by a vocal minority. So I don't think nostalgia or deconstruction are the problem. Audiences just don't like Superman who isn't a pure wish-fulfillment fantasy.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Or maybe audiences don't like Superman when he lacks a personality and barely has any dialogue.

 

[WhoMani]

I wouldn't say that Snyder's Superman is either cool or edgy. He's more aloof and annoyed with humans which isn't what Superman is.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Cavill looks like he is spending half his concentration just on maintaining an American accent. It's visible in his performances. All of his deliveries are stiff as a rock because he fears his accent will slip otherwise.

His American accent is horrible lol...

 

[JimThompson]

I know this is going to draw a lot of fire here, but I really enjoyed Cavill. This scene always makes me smile.

 

[misslane38]

Or maybe audiences don't like Superman when he lacks a personality and barely has any dialogue.

No personality? Personalities come in all forms. Just because he doesn't have an extroverted personality, doesn't mean he doesn't have a personality. It's fine to say you weren't a fan of his personality, but to say he doesn't have one makes little sense to me. Not to mention that kind of personality isn't inherently unlikable. Eleven on STRANGER THINGS doesn't talk much, but one is capable of understanding her and liking her.

I wouldn't say that Snyder's Superman is either cool or edgy. He's more aloof and annoyed with humans which isn't what Superman is.

Aloof? That implies he elects to keep his distance from people because he rejects them or holds himself apart out of a sense of superiority or, as you put it, an annoyance with humans. No where, though, in the films does he demonstrate that he is annoyed with humans. He expresses love for humans and a desire to connect with and be open with them. He only worries about how much that could hurt people, and so acts cautiously. His decision to keep a low profile is out of a concern for and respect for humans, not an annoyance with them.

It is very hard to believe you watched the same movies, because while I can tell you observed the superficial behaviors Superman was engaging in, it's clear you interpreted them incorrectly by assuming his personality and attitude was one of deliberate rejection rather than caring distance.

 

[Flint Marko]

His most defining characteristics are that he's soft-spoken, loves his mom and his girlfriend, reads philosophy

One brief shot of him reading a book with "Plato" on the front and that's apparently one of his most defining characteristic?

I think you just perfectly demonstrated how little there is to this version of Superman.

Audiences just don't like Superman who isn't a pure wish-fulfillment fantasy.

Nah, they like characters whose "most defining characteristics" are bigger than one shot of them reading a book.

 

[misslane38]

One brief shot of him reading a book with "Plato" on the front and that's apparently one of his most defining characteristic?

I think you just perfectly demonstrated how little there is to this version of Superman.

I listed that one thing along with other things in what was clearly just a sample of traits that contrasted with the "cool" and "edgy" labels being thrown around. I could've listed more overall characteristics, but I was keeping it brief and focused on the topic at hand. More specifically, I cited the book as an example of how the films illustrated his defining characteristic (one of a few) of being introverted, not that the book reading what his defining characteristic.

Nah, they like characters whose "most defining characteristics" are bigger than one shot of them reading a book.

Ah, reductive and snarky response as usual.

 

[Flint Marko]

Lotta folks don’t realize this but one of the most defining characteristics of Lex Luther is his love of feeding people jolly ranchers.

 

[misslane38]

Lotta folks don’t realize this but one of the most defining characteristics of Lex Luther is his love of feeding people jolly ranchers.

If you were to follow the actual flow of what I said, instead of this warped version you've created to mock unfairly, then the jolly rancher thing would be like the book in that they are examples that illustrate a more general personality trait. For Clark, the book illustrates his introspection and thoughtfulness. For Lex, the candy represents his disregard for boundaries and his desire to corrupt and control those in power.

 

[WhoMani]

It is very hard to believe you watched the same movies, because while I can tell you observed the superficial behaviors Superman was engaging in, it's clear you interpreted them incorrectly by assuming his personality and attitude was one of deliberate rejection rather than caring distance.

You're literally just described him as aloof person or at least emotionally detached from humans

Its clear that we have a diference of opinion on Snyder's Superman and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinions but there's no need to be condescending towards me or anyone that doesn't like or care for Snyder's Superman. Maybe one day you will learn the value of respect and that opinions are subjective, not factual.

 

[-Arya-]

“It’s clear you interpreted them incorrectly”. Like a broken record.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Maybe one day you will learn the value of respect and that opinions are subjective, not factual.

Come on, man.

 

[WhoMani]

Come on, man.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I know this is going to draw a lot of fire here, but I really enjoyed Cavill. This scene always makes me smile.

This scene is something that could’ve easily been really cool and really Superman like.

I understand what they were trying to do with it but it just kinda comes off as thrown in.
It isn’t worth the PS2 face

 

[Jekecy]

This scene is something that could’ve easily been really cool and really Superman like.

I understand what they were trying to do with it but it just kinda comes off as thrown in.
It isn’t worth the PS2 face

In any other iteration it would have been fine. It just came off like a cheap attempt to retroactively pretend this Supes was so forthcoming and warm to the public like that. It directly leads into the montage scene, showing what the world turned to once he was gone. But I didn’t for one second buy that transition.

 

[Nemeres]

The phone footage bit is a truly solid way of starting the movie. As a raw idea in a vacuum, if people had found out ab it through a script review or plot leak, and outside the context of the BTS drama JL had, no one would've sucked on a lemon over it. Because it fits. Bc it's a Superman scene.

 

[flickchick85]

Honestly, if he'd just look normal (not just the face, but the hideous suit as well) in that scene, I'd be all for it. It's just such an eyesore I hate looking at it.

 

[JimThompson]

This scene is something that could’ve easily been really cool and really Superman like.

I understand what they were trying to do with it but it just kinda comes off as thrown in.
It isn’t worth the PS2 face

That scene IS something that is really cool.

 

[JimThompson]

It is very hard to believe you watched the same movies, because while I can tell you observed the superficial behaviors Superman was engaging in, it's clear you interpreted them incorrectly by assuming his personality and attitude was one of deliberate rejection rather than caring distance.

While I personally enjoyed Cavill's Superman movies, I think this is being a bit unfair. People can see the same thing and take away different things from what they saw. People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. In this case, there are only a few facts:

1. The Cavill Superman movies were overall critical failures (based on Rotten Tomatoes scores.)
2. The Cavill Superman movies were better received by audiences (again based on RT scores.)
3. The Cavill movies were profitable (earning $668 million, $873 million and $657 million respectively based on Box Office Mojo info.)

Outside of that there are very few "facts." Maybe that Warner Brothers hoped they would be more financially successful than they were. The rest is just a matter of personal opinion. Those can be everything from informed and well argued to gut reactions but none of them are "wrong."

 

[Lantern Venom]

I know this is going to draw a lot of fire here, but I really enjoyed Cavill. This scene always makes me smile.

I'm a card-carrying member of the Cavillry, so you'll get no heat from me. I'm still excited about the upcoming DCEU slate, but something will always be missing without Cav-El. There are numerous moments from MoS, BvS, and JL that I can watch and they still give me fanboy euphoria.