Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 2

[MbJ]

After FFINO there's no such thing as "vocal minority" anymore.

That's an interesting question, because I think the thing with comic book movies is, you're almost ALWAYS gonna have a subset of people who are pissed off on the internet about something. The trick is that a good movie is gonna be a good movie regardless and a movie that sucks is gonna suck.

FFINO had a bunch of online hate over stuff like race changing or the horrible "costumes" (WTF was that ****) or the laughable take on Doctor Doom, but it was also just a completely horrible mess of a film in general. At the end of the day I doubt it failed because of people on message boards yelling about how it changed the source material; it failed because it was a **** movie that got **** reviews and **** word of mouth.

Conversely, you'll see similar grousing of some type for just about every comic movie, even the MCU ones (hell take a look at the Spider-Man forums here sometime), but they get out unscathed because at the end of the day, the movies are good enough that most people end up liking them regardless (it also helps that most viewers aren't comic fans).

Reader's digest version: What pisses off the hardcore fans and what ends up actually alienating an audience aren't always the same thing.

 

[Flint Marko]

Reader's digest version: What pisses off the hardcore fans and what ends up actually alienating an audience aren't always the same thing.

Well said

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

That's an interesting question, because I think the thing with comic book movies is, you're almost ALWAYS gonna have a subset of people who are pissed off on the internet about something. The trick is that a good movie is gonna be a good movie regardless and a movie that sucks is gonna suck.

FFINO had a bunch of online hate over stuff like race changing or the horrible "costumes" (WTF was that ****) or the laughable take on Doctor Doom, but it was also just a completely horrible mess of a film in general. At the end of the day I doubt it failed because of people on message boards yelling about how it changed the source material; it failed because it was a **** movie that got **** reviews and **** word of mouth.

Conversely, you'll see similar grousing of some type for just about every comic movie, even the MCU ones (hell take a look at the Spider-Man forums here sometime), but they get out unscathed because at the end of the day, the movies are good enough that most people end up liking them regardless (it also helps that most viewers aren't comic fans).

Reader's digest version: What pisses off the hardcore fans and what ends up actually alienating an audience aren't always the same thing.

I 100% agree with this.

A couple of examples of recent CBMs that really pissed off certain vocal sections of the fanbase, but still were well-liked and successful with the audience at large were The Dark Knight Rises and Iron Man 3.

 

[metaphysician]

So you're saying we didn't see Superman in the movie?

I'll be generous, and say we see a very poor, badly written Superman.

 

[metaphysician]

MCU aint campy, but they have replaced some of their tension with humor...to my distaste. I prefer the mcu netflix universe as well.

I also want Birdman and BW to die, but that is for another thread.

I know I'm going to regret this, but: why do you hate Falcon and Black Widow?

 

[metaphysician]

Well, financially they have been doing much better with their opening movies than the MCU. And they'd be doing even better if those movies had been good critically, too. Which is why Johns and others have the support they need to fix things, they can easily make a case WB lost out on two billion dollar films because of their past management mistakes.

Whether they have actually been "doing better" is highly dependent on whether you look at the budgets. DC movies have consistently had much higher budgets than Marvel movies, on average. It does little good for WB to have BvS outgross two thirds of the Marvel films if its actual profit isn't nearly so high ( because its budget was higher than all but two Marvel films, both of which massively outgrossed it ).

 

[ManWithNoName18]

We're getting a Suicide Squad extended cut

 

[InCali]

Well, financially they have been doing much better with their opening movies than the MCU. And they'd be doing even better if those movies had been good critically, too. Which is why Johns and others have the support they need to fix things, they can easily make a case WB lost out on two billion dollar films because of their past management mistakes.

If you are comparing Superman and Batman to Ant-Man and GotG, they "sorta" did better (gross). Nolan's Batman trilogy (esp the 1st 2) were spectacular, but if you're talking Avengers and even CA:CW, I don't think your point holds up. Ant-Man had a relatively small budget and did just fine at the BO. Might have netted more the BvS. I suppose we'll never know for sure.

 

[InCali]

We're getting a Suicide Squad extended cut

That's cool. SS was my favorite DC movie since Nolan. I don't care if some people think it was a mess.

 

[Erzengel]

I think he means MOS, BvS and SS vs. IM, TIH and IM2.

However, I wonder if this will eventually lead to MOS, BvS, SS, WW and JL vs. IM, TIH, IM2, Thor, C:TFA with or without the Avengers?

 

[The Joker]

We're getting a Suicide Squad extended cut

I think I'm going to keel over in shock

 

[Osiris-Rex]

We're getting a Suicide Squad extended cut

Hopefully it solves the submarine controversy.

 

[InCali]

I think he means MOS, BvS and SS vs. IM, TIH and IM2.

However, I wonder if this will eventually lead to MOS, BvS, SS, WW and JL vs. IM, TIH, IM2, Thor, C:TFA with or without the Avengers?

Very picky selection. IM came out almost 10 years ago and really kicked off this recent madness (which I like). Apples and.....kiwi fruit IMO.

 

[Superchan]

I really hope this whole butcher your films in the editing room and release half-assed versions of em.....and THEN release the film like it was intended on home-media isn't going to be a pattern because one movie in (BvS UC) and I'm already tired of it.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I really hope this whole butcher your films in the editing room and release half-assed versions of em.....and THEN release the film like it was intended on home-media isn't going to be a pattern because one movie in (BvS UC) and I'm already tired of it.

Agreed 1000000000%

 

[Visualiza]

I really hope this whole butcher your films in the editing room and release half-assed versions of em.....and THEN release the film like it was intended on home-media isn't going to be a pattern because one movie in (BvS UC) and I'm already tired of it.

The funny thing is that the UC itself felt quite butchered to me. The consensus among fans seems to be that it fixed everything the TC got wrong, but I felt like it was just 30 more minutes of (very) bad movie.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

I don't think Snyder was ever going to make a critical darling BVS. But maybe if the UC was released it would've gotten at least a MOS level reception.

 

[Erzengel]

The funny thing is that the UC itself felt quite butchered to me. The consensus among fans seems to be that it fixed everything the TC got wrong, but I felt like it was just 30 more minutes of (very) bad movie.

That's the consensus?

 

[Visualiza]

That's the consensus?

I mean among the ones who loved the movie in the first place.

 

[Timebomb]

Agreed 1000000000%

Agree a gazillion percent

 

[Timebomb]

The funny thing is that the UC itself felt quite butchered to me. The consensus among fans seems to be that it fixed everything the TC got wrong, but I felt like it was just 30 more minutes of (very) bad movie.

Agree a gazillion percent

 

[Batmannerism]

I don't think Snyder was ever going to make a critical darling BVS. But maybe if the UC was released it would've gotten at least a MOS level reception.

Just my opinion, but B v S didn't need anythichng added to it, quite the opposite. I recently discovered that if you watch the first 45 minutes of BvS, and the last 45 minutes, it's not too bad. In my estimation it was a film that suffered from too many subplots ( as well as the worst portrayal of Lex Luthor to date). The film could have been much shorter, and a much more enjoyable viewing experience. When I saw it in the cinema By the time poor old Supes got killed I barely cared because I was numb from all the rubbish that I had to sit through to get there. The uc doesn't fix any of the film's problems, in fact I think a two hour cut would have been better - sometimes less is more.

I think Snyder did us all a favor by not putting out a UC for MOS. Love it or hate it, the film stands on its own merits. I don't have anything against extended cuts - for true fans the extended LOTR cuts are the only way to watch them, but the 4 hour extended version of Dune ( David Lynch) is pure garbage.

 

[Predator jp]

Batmax, JL videos, African subplot should've been there in the first place imo.

 

[Galactus123]

I'm not a fan how the movies look. I think the cities should be more fantastical. I liked Gotham in Batman TAS and Metropolis in Superman TAS. They should have given the cities similiar unique and different looks in the movies.

 

[jihado86]

The problem with DCEU isn't the tone, the problem is both creative decisions and films execution. These movies suffer a lot from these two main problems, the whole idea of Batman fighting Superman is a mess (aka bad creative decision), the lazy introduction and setting up for JL is a bad creative decision, the pieces of **** scenes of Bruce's visions about Parademons and the bat thing in his mother's tomb were a ****** creative decision.
As for the execution, the whole film suffers from a cinematic point of view, bad script, reliance on moments presented in slow motion to make them cool and epic was a ****** directional blasphemy. The film is weak. And so is SS, even weaker.

When you make good creative decisions and a good movie, then the tone is just a bonus.