The Doctor Doom Thread

[Willie Lumpkin]

I’ve argued that Doom rivals Spider-man or Hulk as one of the most iconic and important and recognizable characters in the Marvel universe.

Anybody who has ever read a Marvel comic book or watched a Marvel cartoon knows Dr. Doom. It doesn’t matter who their favorite character is. That character has encountered Doom at some time or another.

 

[Silvermoth]

well…casting captain America was pretty important. But it’s pretty important too. It’s going to be interesting because you need the right level of ham and a lot of actors aren’t trained to do that anymore

 

[Fluedd]

Casting Doom is important, but I think it's even more important how they choose to write him.

 

[Silvermoth]

That’s a very good point actually. You know who would write a good Doctor doom? Spencer Ackerman. He’s an expert in how tyrants rise through previously liberal democracies and how they seize and maintain power. Plus he’s a marvel fan!

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I finally just finished Moon Knight, and it seems like:

Spoiler

The scarab came from the Latverian castle.

We don’t really know who the monarch is now, but I think that’s were Mark got the scarab.

Steven wakes up on the ground outside of the castle, and it appears he fell/jumped out.

He sees a gunman/guard in the window and waves. The gunman, confused, awkwardly waves back.

Then a second guard appears and starts firing - presumably because he stole something, I mean he wouldn’t fire at some guy who just happened to be outside the castle.

Then, shortly after that, Steven runs into Harrow.

We assume when we first see that that Harrow has some connection to the village (Latveria), but later we see he has his “headquarters” in London, so presumably he was following a lead related to the scarab that led him there.

It’s the only real excursion from the primary settings of London and Cairo, and the reason they took that unusual excursion would seem to be because Mark was looking for the scarab and found it in the castle.

And again, we don’t know who the monarch is, but the appearance of the village and castle is too coincidental to just be some random setting.

Whether it will directly tie into anything in the future or was just a fun little thing to throw in there, I think the scarab came from the future (and potentially current) home of Doom.

 

[CaptainWagner]

He's mostly played himbo-type characters in his career, but lately I've been increasingly drawn to the idea of Kayvan Novak as Doom. He has the size to be physically formidable, the looks and charm to be effortlessly charismatic and the dynamic voice to deliver magic spells and despotic speeches with equal conviction. I think he could really be a powerhouse in the role.

 

[GoblinScrier]

I realize there is a lot of gossip going around about the long range plans for Marvel but the one I keep hearing "industry insiders" say in the last week or so is that Kang's Multiversal War is the "Secret Wars" we are getting and that you can forget Doom's role in it being the uber threat he should be. Say Doom is replaced with Kang in what is essentially the biggest and most epic accomplishment of his life as a character, then really what do you do with him? As much as I love the character, ruling Latveria, showing up his genius against Richards and proving his sorcery over Dr. Strange, not sure that is enough for him to impress audiences, cause how do you top Secret Wars? I mean Galactus is a huge deal but taking his power and such isn't enough to top what they may be allowing Kang to do....

 

[Spider-Fan]

I too would be disappointed with a Secret Wars where the main villain is Kang and not Doom. But since Doom isn't introduced yet, I think Secret Wars will come in like 2026. So I don't think a proper Doom vs FF dynamic can be built to by then, especially if Doom isn't the FF movie villain.

Plus we have all these reports of Kang variants popping up in several projects. So on that note....I think a Kang variant may be the villain of Fantastic Four. I don't know if I love that prospect....but it feels to me like where this is going.

 

[Johnny Richards]

I think there's time. Just like there's time for Reed Richards to be one of the new "Big Three" in Secret Wars. I think the rumors about Doom being the real villain of Wakanda Forever are true.

So I think we'll meet MCU Doom in November and he'll have 4-5 years to build up to his moment in the sun via Secret Wars. Thanos had 6 years, but that was the era of Marvel Studios were they weren't cranking out as many movies as they are now. In 4-5 years, Doom can have more onscreen appearances than Thanos did in 6.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yes, but let's assume Doom isn't the villain of the FF movie. Which right now is possible. Then let's say the rumors are accurate and Secret Wars is targeted for 2026....FF is likely coming 2024. Where would Doom and the FF clash then? Would feel kind of...wrong to me to not get a proper Doom vs FF before we get Doom's big villain moment in Secret Wars. They killed Thanos in Endgame. Would Doom linger at the end of such a major event?

I will have to see how things play out, but I can see this Kang thing being true. Especially if Kang is making a bunch of appearances over the next few years, the FF movie seems like one of the best options for that.

 

[Johnny Richards]

Yes, but let's assume Doom isn't the villain of the FF movie. Which right now is possible. Then let's say the rumors are accurate and Secret Wars is targeted for 2026....FF is likely coming 2024. Where would Doom and the FF clash then? Would feel kind of...wrong to me to not get a proper Doom vs FF before we get Doom's big villain moment in Secret Wars. They killed Thanos in Endgame. Would Doom linger at the end of such a major event?

I will have to see how things play out, but I can see this Kang thing being true. Especially if Kang is making a bunch of appearances over the next few years, the FF movie seems like one of the best options for that.

I don't think MCU Doom will be made out to be a primary villain of the FF just like MCU Thanos wasn't made out to be a primary villain of Captain Marvel or the Silver Surfer or Adam Warlock. I think Feige is finally going to get Doom right by making him a threat to EVERYONE across the Multiverse.

That's one of the main reasons for why FOX kept failing with their FF movies. They kept going straight to Doom every time. Doom is beyond the FF's control. He's an Avengers-level threat. Having the MCU introduce him in a non-FF movie is the first step in making that clear. He's a threat to everyone. Starting with Wakanda & Atlantis. Who will be next?

I think much like how some of the Guardians had history with Thanos before the Infinity Saga, I don't think the FF need to fight Doom before Secret Wars. The Guardians first faced Thanos in IW. The FF can fight Doom in Secret Wars Part I and fail to defeat him leading into Beyonder Doom in Secret Wars Part II.

 

[Fluedd]

Plus we have all these reports of Kang variants popping up in several projects. So on that note....I think a Kang variant may be the villain of Fantastic Four. I don't know if I love that prospect....but it feels to me like where this is going.

Interesting, I haven't heard that possibility raised before. I tend to think they are saving Kang for the big Secret Wars crossover movie, so I doubt they would "waste" him on the FF. But it might be interesting to see the Egyptian Rama-Tut/Immortus story, with an added encounter with Kang, and ending with a tie in with Doom.

 

[Fluedd]

I don't think MCU Doom will be made out to be a primary villain of the FF just like MCU Thanos wasn't made out to be a primary villain of Captain Marvel or the Silver Surfer or Adam Warlock. I think Feige is finally going to get Doom right by making him a threat to EVERYONE across the Multiverse.

I doubt mind Doom fighting other heroes, but he HAS to be obsessed with Richards. He just has to be.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Interesting, I haven't heard that possibility raised before. I tend to think they are saving Kang for the big Secret Wars crossover movie, so I doubt they would "waste" him on the FF. But it might be interesting to see the Egyptian Rama-Tut/Immortus story, with an added encounter with Kang, and ending with a tie in with Doom.

Word is Kang is going to appear in several projects. I think Loki season 2, Ant-Man 3, and probably What If are likely spots for Kang stuff. But, I think don't think that will be the end of Kang variants. So looking at the movies we know are coming, FF is one where he would make sense to me. Plus it would put Kang on Reed's radar if he confronted one version

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't think MCU Doom will be made out to be a primary villain of the FF just like MCU Thanos wasn't made out to be a primary villain of Captain Marvel or the Silver Surfer or Adam Warlock. I think Feige is finally going to get Doom right by making him a threat to EVERYONE across the Multiverse.

That's one of the main reasons for why FOX kept failing with their FF movies. They kept going straight to Doom every time. Doom is beyond the FF's control. He's an Avengers-level threat. Having the MCU introduce him in a non-FF movie is the first step in making that clear. He's a threat to everyone. Starting with Wakanda & Atlantis. Who will be next?

I think much like how some of the Guardians had history with Thanos before the Infinity Saga, I don't think the FF need to fight Doom before Secret Wars. The Guardians first faced Thanos in IW. The FF can fight Doom in Secret Wars Part I and fail to defeat him leading into Beyonder Doom in Secret Wars Part II.

I think Doom loses something if he isn't obsessed with Reed Richards. Doom fights many heroes, sure. But his rivalry with Reed is next level and if he doesn't have that obsessive rivalry driving him, I think that is like taking Batman out of the Joker. That rivalry is a huge driving force behind Doom's ambitions and competitive nature

 

[Johnny Richards]

I doubt mind Doom fighting other heroes, but he HAS to be obsessed with Richards. He just has to be.

I have no doubt he will be. I just don't think he'll be the villain of Fantastic Four (2024) or Fantastic Four 2 if they squeeze that one in before Secret Wars. I think Doom's many battles with the FF will be off camera much like the origin of the FF & Doom.

I think they'll fight for the 99th time in Secret Wars and the FF will have help.

 

[Stark Bauer]

all this talk of Doom being the villain or next Thanos villain is the easy out, the most obvious story arc. I would prefer Doom be the "villain" only to have a greater threat in the form of Galactus and or the Celestials and then Doom has to become an ally in order to save the earth (and so Doom can be ruler of the earth uncontested). That would be a great anti-hero, redeeming character arc.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

all this talk of Doom being the villain or next Thanos villain is the easy out, the most obvious story arc. I would prefer Doom be the "villain" only to have a greater threat in the form of Galactus and or the Celestials and then Doom has to become an ally in order to save the earth (and so Doom can be ruler of the earth uncontested). That would be a great anti-hero, redeeming character arc.

Can’t we have both? First make Doom the Thanos-type villain and then after that bring him in as the enemy of an enemy.

And this may be an unpopular opinion, but I’ve never been a Secret Wars fan. Sure it’s epic in that it brings a lot of heroes into the story, but the threat, motivation etc. always felt “gimmicky” to me, particularly when compared to something like the Infinity Saga.

 

[Silvermoth]

I simply want a Doctor Doom that looks like this



hopefully the costume designers use this as a template

 

[Stark Bauer]

I simply want a Doctor Doom that looks like this



hopefully the costume designers use this as a template

It should be an unholy hybrid of Stark tech (armour) and Doctor Strange's sorcerer robes

 

[Johnny Richards]

Can’t we have both? First make Doom the Thanos-type villain and then after that bring him in as the enemy of an enemy.

And this may be an unpopular opinion, but I’ve never been a Secret Wars fan. Sure it’s epic in that it brings a lot of heroes into the story, but the threat, motivation etc. always felt “gimmicky” to me, particularly when compared to something like the Infinity Saga.

Did you read Hickman's Secret Wars? It's as good as Starlin's Infinity Gauntlet and frankly more complex.

Reed & Doom play massive roles. The stakes are insane. It's a fantastic crossover event.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Did you read Hickman's Secret Wars? It's as good as Starlin's Infinity Gauntlet and frankly more complex.

Reed & Doom play massive roles. The stakes are insane. It's a fantastic crossover event.

Yes I read it.

“Complex” isn’t the same as “good” IMO. Simplicity can be very powerful - Consider the first Galactus story. In that story, the threat is clear and real and logical in the context of the story. The audience knows what has to happen and they recognize that if it doesn’t happen the result will be catastrophic, so they are highly invested in the outcome.

But I prefaced my comment by saying it was probably an unpopular opinion, so I have zero interest in arguing an opinion I recognize as an outlier.

 

[Fluedd]

Eh, Secret Wars was all right. Especially if they introduce the MCU-616 Venom in it.
Does the Sony-verse have a number?

 

[Johnny Richards]

Yes I read it.

“Complex” isn’t the same as “good” IMO. Simplicity can be very powerful - Consider the first Galactus story. In that story, the threat is clear and real and logical in the context of the story. The audience knows what has to happen and they recognize that if it doesn’t happen the result will be catastrophic, so they are highly invested in the outcome.

But I prefaced my comment by saying it was probably an unpopular opinion, so I have zero interest in arguing an opinion I recognize as an outlier.

When you said you weren't a Secret Wars fan I thought you meant the original Secret Wars. I didn't realize you meant Hickman's Secret Wars as well.

Feige and Waldron are officially drawing from Hickman's FF tenure so it's gonna be a rocky road for non-Hickman/non-contemporary FF fans.

Old school 60s FF is awesome but not practical for today's audiences. Hickman revitalized the FF by making the Sci-Fi heavier on the "Sci" rather than the "Fi". The Classic Galactus story can still work but it'll definitely undergo some Hickman-esque upgrading.

 

[Boom]

Dr. Doom as the Vegeta of the MCU.