the elephant on the end table
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Varient
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myself:
2. Prove it,... I've spent a few years constructing lectures on such in the military so you post a few links showing Blacks making the same level of gains within the same time period prior to civil rights as they did afterwards.
Tsk I'm surprised you even tried to slide that one by me.
mw's Quote:
As of 1940 87% percent lived below the official poverty level. By 1960 this rate had fallen to 47% (a nearly 50% reduction in 20 years) Between 1960 and 1970 the rate dropped to 30%
However between 1970 and 1980 the rate had only dropped to 29%
Source America in Black and white: One NAtion Indivisible By abigail and stephan Thernstrom. Published by simon and shuster in 1997 page 233.
Here's why I shake my head at you.
You say that blacks have made more gains prior to civil rights,.. I say prove it,.... and you come back with something that is not on topic to prove your point.
Up until this point we were talking about "social gains brought about by civil rights" and you use "poverty level"?
Something that will NEVER BE LESS THAN ZERO FOR ANY PEOPLE unless you talk about some sort of "star trek" future?
History will show anybody who reads it that the main reason 50% of blacks rose out above poverty level was the employment generated by world war one, Beirut, the korean war, the VietNam war.
So your premise here is that the change generated by our country being at war,.. (gee,.. didn't the poverty level also drop for whites during the same period?), is equivalent to,.. no,.. greater than that drop made mostly in peacetime by those in our society striking out for change?
I'll come back when I have time and pick apart the rest of your post.
Originally Posted by myself:
2. Prove it,... I've spent a few years constructing lectures on such in the military so you post a few links showing Blacks making the same level of gains within the same time period prior to civil rights as they did afterwards.
Tsk I'm surprised you even tried to slide that one by me.
mw's Quote:
As of 1940 87% percent lived below the official poverty level. By 1960 this rate had fallen to 47% (a nearly 50% reduction in 20 years) Between 1960 and 1970 the rate dropped to 30%
However between 1970 and 1980 the rate had only dropped to 29%
Source America in Black and white: One NAtion Indivisible By abigail and stephan Thernstrom. Published by simon and shuster in 1997 page 233.
Here's why I shake my head at you.
You say that blacks have made more gains prior to civil rights,.. I say prove it,.... and you come back with something that is not on topic to prove your point.
Up until this point we were talking about "social gains brought about by civil rights" and you use "poverty level"?
Something that will NEVER BE LESS THAN ZERO FOR ANY PEOPLE unless you talk about some sort of "star trek" future?
History will show anybody who reads it that the main reason 50% of blacks rose out above poverty level was the employment generated by world war one, Beirut, the korean war, the VietNam war.
So your premise here is that the change generated by our country being at war,.. (gee,.. didn't the poverty level also drop for whites during the same period?), is equivalent to,.. no,.. greater than that drop made mostly in peacetime by those in our society striking out for change?
I'll come back when I have time and pick apart the rest of your post.
Varient
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Recontructed post time,.. otherwise we dance for the next two weeks.:
Originally I said:
Nope,.. you misunderstand, (probably on purpose), There are COMMUNITIES in AMERICA where they are COMPOSED of WHITES soliciting ONLY whites to join their communities where it would take GOVERNMENT intervention for a Minority to move into those neighborhoods.
Whereas the "black, asian's, and latino" communities are formed based on LACK of money or employment,.. Whites can EASILY move into those communities w/o anyone trying to obstruct them.
And before you make the ignorant statement that they don't because it wouldn't be safe - I'll say I was Born in North Philly and we had a black community with whites living amongst us. The only whites there that I saw getting beat on either put on a tude or ran with a gang who then stepped on someone elses "turf".
your reply:
No I didn't.
I can point to racially self segregated areas that are middle class as well. I also have a greatd deal of trouble beliveing that whites in an area could exercise that much control over whom a seller sells his home to.[/B] There is an entire town in central florida that is all black. (then again we have a town which is built at half size becasue all of the residents are mifgets. ) and it isn't due to a lack of economic opportunity.
My reply
STOP
R U truly serious? Does the term "redline" mean anything to you?-
Your reply:
No
Now you step up with this mess:
U say:
I know what redlining is. I said it didn't matter to me, since in terms of what we were discussing it is irrelevant.
My current reply:
Gee,.... I define redlining as a form of racism where someone controls where folk can live by making places "unavailable or too expensive" for undesirables. In the context of the conversation whites forming all white communities by this method.
And 1st you found it hard to believe it happens, then you say you don't know what redlining is,.. then you amend it to say that you know what it means but don't believe we were typing about it.
(trip)
Originally I said:
Nope,.. you misunderstand, (probably on purpose), There are COMMUNITIES in AMERICA where they are COMPOSED of WHITES soliciting ONLY whites to join their communities where it would take GOVERNMENT intervention for a Minority to move into those neighborhoods.
Whereas the "black, asian's, and latino" communities are formed based on LACK of money or employment,.. Whites can EASILY move into those communities w/o anyone trying to obstruct them.
And before you make the ignorant statement that they don't because it wouldn't be safe - I'll say I was Born in North Philly and we had a black community with whites living amongst us. The only whites there that I saw getting beat on either put on a tude or ran with a gang who then stepped on someone elses "turf".
your reply:
No I didn't.
I can point to racially self segregated areas that are middle class as well. I also have a greatd deal of trouble beliveing that whites in an area could exercise that much control over whom a seller sells his home to.[/B] There is an entire town in central florida that is all black. (then again we have a town which is built at half size becasue all of the residents are mifgets. ) and it isn't due to a lack of economic opportunity.
My reply
STOP
R U truly serious? Does the term "redline" mean anything to you?-
Your reply:
No
Now you step up with this mess:
U say:
I know what redlining is. I said it didn't matter to me, since in terms of what we were discussing it is irrelevant.
My current reply:
Gee,.... I define redlining as a form of racism where someone controls where folk can live by making places "unavailable or too expensive" for undesirables. In the context of the conversation whites forming all white communities by this method.
And 1st you found it hard to believe it happens, then you say you don't know what redlining is,.. then you amend it to say that you know what it means but don't believe we were typing about it.
(trip)
Varient
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Because unlike the other examples you gave, man/woman grown/child Smart/dumb, there is no actual difference between blacks and whites save perception. There is a biological difference between men and women, children and adults, the smart and the dumb. Ther eis no such biologica differemce between whites and blacks.
You kinda just shot yourself in the foot.
I'll explain:
For the most part when I come here,.. color isn't an issue with or to me because as a military brat I wasn't raised to class everybody by color.
I and too many "like me" don't flow that way.
Now what we do have issue with are those who do class people by color. You came onto that other thread with a seriously twisted statement that seperated people by black and white while adding that "95%" of whites were "past" racism and blacks were not.
You have spent pages telling people that the problem is "black people" while being offensive to those who can't agree with you. You have answered me on topics I have a clue about in a tone that sez u know better when the topic is "why" blacks may respond in certain ways - the hall-mark of a racist btw,.. he knows "all about" the other guy and that's why the other guy is screwed up.
I've not said once that there is a difference between blacks and whites I have simply argued history and gave you the reasons (in my view) people did what they did.
You have "told" me that I have lumped all whites together,....
Not yet.
You have told me that I'm racist for seeing any sort of difference between white and black by your defs involving what whites have done and what MINORITIES have done in response.
All history where in most cases asking most experts who say that there probably wouldn't have been change w/o the way blacks responded in the first place.
You then flip the convo to say that white people made it all possible so why am I trying to say that women and minorities had a hand in it?
Scary how you minimize the fact that someone did something that got whites who were comfortable the way things were to actually grow up and change what only a small few of them realized was wrong on their own.
U can't find where I made a comparision or listed a bio diff between the colors.
I do live in reality though and UNDERSTAND why the Black Panthers for example would not recruit and set white guys with guns in their neighborhoods, ...for some reason you can't make a connection.
Anyway,.. you argue there is no difference when you STARTED with saying there was a difference BY COLOR.
*Bang*
You kinda just shot yourself in the foot.
I'll explain:
For the most part when I come here,.. color isn't an issue with or to me because as a military brat I wasn't raised to class everybody by color.
I and too many "like me" don't flow that way.
Now what we do have issue with are those who do class people by color. You came onto that other thread with a seriously twisted statement that seperated people by black and white while adding that "95%" of whites were "past" racism and blacks were not.
You have spent pages telling people that the problem is "black people" while being offensive to those who can't agree with you. You have answered me on topics I have a clue about in a tone that sez u know better when the topic is "why" blacks may respond in certain ways - the hall-mark of a racist btw,.. he knows "all about" the other guy and that's why the other guy is screwed up.
I've not said once that there is a difference between blacks and whites I have simply argued history and gave you the reasons (in my view) people did what they did.
You have "told" me that I have lumped all whites together,....
Not yet.
You have told me that I'm racist for seeing any sort of difference between white and black by your defs involving what whites have done and what MINORITIES have done in response.
All history where in most cases asking most experts who say that there probably wouldn't have been change w/o the way blacks responded in the first place.
You then flip the convo to say that white people made it all possible so why am I trying to say that women and minorities had a hand in it?
Scary how you minimize the fact that someone did something that got whites who were comfortable the way things were to actually grow up and change what only a small few of them realized was wrong on their own.
U can't find where I made a comparision or listed a bio diff between the colors.
I do live in reality though and UNDERSTAND why the Black Panthers for example would not recruit and set white guys with guns in their neighborhoods, ...for some reason you can't make a connection.
Anyway,.. you argue there is no difference when you STARTED with saying there was a difference BY COLOR.
*Bang*
Varient
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(raised eyebrow)
You REALLY expect him to read that?
I would be seriously surprised if he even acknowledged those links.
Props though they kinda lay out and punk all arguement that could be put forth on the premise that MWM offered.
Varient
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Nah.
Bet you a quarter he'll come back as "someone else" and try the same stuff again with a different group.
ElectroFlare
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Racists suck...let's get rid of 'em
t:
t:
Fried Gold
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Racism is the new black.Racists suck...let's get rid of 'em
Varient
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gud times, someone will PM us about it
Is it too hard to grok that I don't come to SUPER HERO HYPE boards to talk race relations,.... but won't run when sumbody gets stupid?
Wilhelm-Scream
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So, what's the topic?
Fried Gold
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Kirk Vs Picard.
Wilhelm-Scream
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So far I've got "Keep it Civil".
*Keeps It Civil*
*Keeps It Civil*
Wilhelm-Scream
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It's funny that they always brag "We did the world's first televised inter-racial kiss!", seeing as how they were forced to kiss by telekinesis and before their lips touch they struggle and strain to stop it, as if kissing would be the worst fate ever, and then Uhura says "I'm sorry, Captain" but as far as I remember, he doesn't....as if she's ashamed she sullied his white mouth with her Negro lips.
Canadian Rider
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I have read this and find it interesting that everyone is quoting statistics and yet have not addressed the key issue.
There is one race. The Human Race.
While our skin may be different hues, colours and shades we are all one race. We may be parts of that Race, but we are all human and all related.
The moment someone stops to look at the outside to make a determination about someone's worth, intelligence or socio-economic status ... the dialogue is lost.
Look on the inside, to the heart and blood and we are all one.
For those who claim that Racism doesn't exist, it does. Anyone who looks at the colour of someone's skin, style of hair or any other "exterior" features to determine the "worth" of any human being is lost. It is within us all to be one race. Not factions or groups bent on putting down the other parts of the one race that we all are.
Now, I say to you today my friends, even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: - 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.'
Martin Luther King Jr., Speech at Civil Rights March on Washington, August 28, 1963
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr., Strength to Love, 1963 - More quotations on: [Stupidity] [Ignorance]
Anyone who claims not to hate or discriminate is deluding themselves. As a race we seek to dominate and create and shape things to our will and to our ways.
To escape the tyranny of hate and discrimination and discord amongst the various peoples who constitute the one human race, we ALL need to be honest with ourselves and our neighbours and seek their interests over our own.
"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today."
Until the Character of a person is the key to consideration of their value and worth ... it is still a dream.
There is one race. The Human Race.
While our skin may be different hues, colours and shades we are all one race. We may be parts of that Race, but we are all human and all related.
The moment someone stops to look at the outside to make a determination about someone's worth, intelligence or socio-economic status ... the dialogue is lost.
Look on the inside, to the heart and blood and we are all one.
For those who claim that Racism doesn't exist, it does. Anyone who looks at the colour of someone's skin, style of hair or any other "exterior" features to determine the "worth" of any human being is lost. It is within us all to be one race. Not factions or groups bent on putting down the other parts of the one race that we all are.
Now, I say to you today my friends, even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: - 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.'
Martin Luther King Jr., Speech at Civil Rights March on Washington, August 28, 1963
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr., Strength to Love, 1963 - More quotations on: [Stupidity] [Ignorance]
Anyone who claims not to hate or discriminate is deluding themselves. As a race we seek to dominate and create and shape things to our will and to our ways.
To escape the tyranny of hate and discrimination and discord amongst the various peoples who constitute the one human race, we ALL need to be honest with ourselves and our neighbours and seek their interests over our own.
"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today."
Until the Character of a person is the key to consideration of their value and worth ... it is still a dream.
Fried Gold
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You forgot the 100m Hurdles.
Kyalesyin
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Wilhelm-Scream
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Computer...full head of thick, lustrous hair...98 degrees
Canadian Rider
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