The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 5

[Tempest]

I disagree. I wish we saw more of him without the blurry face and modulated voice. I don't understand why his face needed to be vibrating during that last fight, when everyone knew his identity.

Typical Bad Guy schtick. He wants to look more threatening. Face it; Dr. Wells doesn't have the most threatening face or body. The vibrating is more intimidating.

 

[Bathead]

Not really. There was a deleted scene/Australian commercial a couple of weeks back where Caitlin was bringing the prisoners food from Big Belly burger and commented on what they like to eat .

What I wonder, is how do they feed the Mist dude? We've seen he can use his power inside his cell, so surely any food-hole they open up he can just mist into haha .

Don't know if it would work on him but they could use invisible, odorless, tasteless knockout gas just before feeding time.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Not really. There was a deleted scene/Australian commercial a couple of weeks back where Caitlin was bringing the prisoners food from Big Belly burger and commented on what they like to eat .

What I wonder, is how do they feed the Mist dude? We've seen he can use his power inside his cell, so surely any food-hole they open up he can just mist into haha .

Not just food... sanitary conditions, sleeping... they just never thought about showing that or bringing that up. Not to mention that there were at best three people there looking after them but those three all went home at night.

Think about if YOU or I were kidnapping just one person and holding them against their will... But we still have to keep them alive and in reasonable condition. That's ALOT of work. Now quadruple that oh, and add in freakin super powers. Yet this was hardly brought up at all on this show for more than, what, a dozen episodes or more? It was not an aspect of the show that presented the writers as covering their bases all that well, and hopefully they think such issues through better in the future.

I have watched from episode one but never came around here much cuz while I like the show immensely it had and has some things that make me question the show runners and as with lots of forums here and I didn't want to be Debbie Downer with my dislike of some aspects. So I don't know, but was this something other posters here on the Hype pointed out at all?

 

[The Shape]

I have watched from episode one but never came around here much cuz while I like the show immensely it had and has some things that make me question the show runners and as with lots of forums here and I didn't want to be Debbie Downer with my dislike of some aspects. So I don't know, but was this something other posters here on the Hype pointed out at all?

It was been brought up by other posters as a nitpick or criticism, but I don't think it's been a detrimental factor towards anyone's enjoyment of the show. While they could have included one brief scene of Caitlin feeding a prisoner, I don't necessarily feel that this was something that NEEDED to be addressed or harped on. It has been addressed on the show that their use of this metahuman "prison" is against the law, which was a more important thought IMO.

There are many things that aren't explicitly shown on screen in TV shows and films, and yet, we all know and assume these things occur. We never see our main characters use the bathroom, brush their teeth, or sleep, but we all know they do those things. One should just assume that the prisoners were regularly fed and cleaned, and there would be nothing to worry about.

 

[Bathead]

It was been brought up by other posters as a nitpick or criticism, but I don't think it's been a detrimental factor towards anyone's enjoyment of the show. While they could have included one brief scene of Caitlin feeding a prisoner, I don't necessarily feel that this was something that NEEDED to be addressed or harped on. It has been addressed on the show that their use of this metahuman "prison" is against the law, which was a more important thought IMO.

There are many things that aren't explicitly shown on screen in TV shows and films, and yet, we all know and assume these things occur. We never see our main characters use the bathroom, brush their teeth, or sleep, but we all know they do those things. One should just assume that the prisoners were regularly fed and cleaned, and there would be nothing to worry about.

Yup. I remember someone complaining about the scene in Batman Begins where Alfred picks Bruce up after the monastery incident, saying, "How did Alfred know to pick him up there and how did he get there so fast?" ( I figured Bruce called him on the phone when he reached "civilization", and he likely waited a while for him to show up)
First thing I thought was , anybody with half a brain and a little imagination could have figured that out, there was no need for any exposition or explanation for it. Things like that are assumed to be understood by people of reasonable intelligence.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I disagree. But like I said, there's a reason I don't come around to be Debbie Downer, despite liking the show a lot. That aspect for me was huge as a negative in terms of writing from the creative team and being able to take the show seriously as a viewer. Details like that, real world logistics, or consistency of various aspects are what separates mediocre from good or great to my eyes, and like I stated, that they just glossed over this FACT on the show, that they had to provide for the metahuman prisoners and that would itself be no small feat, was a weakness of the show.

 

[Dark Raven]

Someone please go in this thread and answer this question for me:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=31390111&postcount=205

I'm not reading this current thread at all.

 

[The Shape]

I disagree. But like I said, there's a reason I don't come around to be Debbie Downer, despite liking the show a lot. That aspect for me was huge as a negative in terms of writing from the creative team and being able to take the show seriously as a viewer. Details like that, real world logistics, or consistency of various aspects are what separates mediocre from good or great to my eyes, and like I stated, that they just glossed over this FACT on the show, that they had to provide for the metahuman prisoners and that would itself be no small feat, was a weakness of the show.

I understand that this bothers you significantly, but you lost me at "real world logistics". We're talking about a show in which we just saw a gigantic, telepathic gorilla fight a man who can run at supersonic speed and travel through time. If one of the most bothersome and unrealistic aspects of the show for you is that we haven't explicitly seen those prisoners get fed, the main inconsistency might fall on your mindset when viewing the show.

As for providing for the metahuman prisoners being no small feat, what makes you say that? You've seen all that the Star Labs people are capable of and all of the technology that is at their fingertips -- including modification of the particle accelerator chamber into an advanced prison for metahumans, with "prison" cells that they can mechanically move around like the parts of a rubix cube. Do you think it would honestly be difficult for them to have developed an efficient way to drop 3 meals a day into their chambers without ever having to enter the cells themselves? Or to connect the prisoners' cubes to a shower cube when needed? They could have had an automated feeding system, for all we know, tailored to the needs and physiology of each prisoner.

Point being, there are more important things this TV can and should be utilizing screen-time for. Comic books don't often dwell on logistical factoids like this one, so I don't see why it would be a huge negative that this show (which is essentially like a live action, weekly comic book) doesn't dwell on it either.

But really, I am sorry that this irked you in the way that it did -- no sarcasm or snark intended. There's so much to love about this show, and I feel bad that something like this hindered your overall enjoyment of it.

 

[mr. peasant]

Just posted this poll on comic book supervillains of 2014/2015. Please vote and discuss:

Best Television Supervillain Thread 2014/2015

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I understand that this bothers you significantly, but you lost me at "real world logistics". We're talking about a show in which we just saw a gigantic, telepathic gorilla fight a man who can run at supersonic speed and travel through time. If one of the most bothersome and unrealistic aspects of the show for you is that we haven't explicitly seen those prisoners get fed, the main inconsistency might fall on your mindset when viewing the show.

As for providing for the metahuman prisoners being no small feat, what makes you say that? You've seen all that the Star Labs people are capable of and all of the technology that is at their fingertips -- including modification of the particle accelerator chamber into an advanced prison for metahumans, with "prison" cells that they can mechanically move around like the parts of a rubix cube. Do you think it would honestly be difficult for them to have developed an efficient way to drop 3 meals a day into their chambers without ever having to enter the cells themselves? Or to connect the prisoners' cubes to a shower cube when needed? They could have had an automated feeding system, for all we know, tailored to the needs and physiology of each prisoner.

Point being, there are more important things this TV can and should be utilizing screen-time for. Comic books don't often dwell on logistical factoids like this one, so I don't see why it would be a huge negative that this show (which is essentially like a live action, weekly comic book) doesn't dwell on it either.

But really, I am sorry that this irked you in the way that it did -- no sarcasm or snark intended. There's so much to love about this show, and I feel bad that something like this hindered your overall enjoyment of it.

Well, it does bother me because like I said, it reeks of "playing with my action figures" type writing and not making it about characters that, no matter the bending or breaking of physics that is required for a superhero show to work at all, there still has to be a weight to the people and the circumstances and details like "How are they exactly caring for these people" (which is linked to the question of the morality of doing this in the first place too) is indeed, part and parcel of separating strong writing, for myself, and mediocre storytelling.


What do I mean by "playing with my action figures"? Well, I was a kid that played with lots of action figures and of course had a play set or two to have adventures in, like lots of us. Now inevitably in these play sets, especially the ones that serve as the back drop to the hero characters, they have some "jail" or lock up or cell to put the bad guys in. As a child (say between 6 and 12), did any of us really think about anything beyond the "good guys" win and put the bad guy in the jail in the play set? No. I hazard that 95% us did not. But... We were children. We had expectations and yes to go against the trope, even the "limited" imaginations of children. As you get older, the questions such as the one I posed not only seem germane, and kind of silly that there isn't at least SOME kind of answer (seriously... I am not asking for a multi-episode arc of Cisco feeding and bathing metas... A couple of lines about how they are pulling this off, is better than hand waving away implications or not bringing up what would be a huge logistical nightmare for Barry and the gang, powers or high tech solutions notwithstanding) but you start to realize there are story and character potential that is wasted if you don't put some thought into this stuff as well. It also, frankly makes for simply sloppy writing. As a for instance... In comics or in animation have you ever noticed that in "super villain" prisons that A. Too often the villains are in their cells WITH their costumes on? Or, B. That the villains' super powered sundries (WEAPONS, ect.) are stored ON SITE AT THE PRISON? Would either of those things have bothered any of us at the age of 10? No. But... We all ain't ten years old anymore. This isn't about "suspension of disbelief" or needing everything explained... It's about competent storytelling, and not treating us, the audience, like small children. It's about, in spite of the fantasy concept (world with super powered heroes and villains) not using it as an excuse for shoddy world building. "Oh, well, it's a show where a guy in a silly costume with super speed fights other guys in silly costumes... We don't have to go all that deep into anything."

This extends to other areas of the show, and yeah, consistency is an issue the show has, especially with Barry's supposed power levels and even characterization. He's supposed to be the science buff and a professional crime scene investigator, and... He's actually supposed to be quite good at it. Now, that is a job that requires precision and focus... But we had to apparently have Barry learn these things from Ollie Queen? He has super speed now, was always a science buff (from child hood), but he NEEDS to phone home to STAR to continually get advice or get some equation or science info? These are issues on the show that I doubt I or other fans haven't thought could use some improvements. This last episode in removing the Pipeline prisoners was a very good step, as it relieved the show of this ridiculous idea that Cisco and Caitlyn and Wells and Barry were doing everything we were seeing every week AND other work, AND also take care of the prisoners. World of super speedsters or not, NOT addressing such things smacks of just not caring. "It's just a show about a comic book character... We don't need to think about that."

Take a look at DareDevil... The truth is that today's Hell's Kitchen and NYC in general is NOT the NYC of Miller's era of DD. Realistically you couldn't do that version of DD today, cuz frankly, Hell's Kitchen is actually quite a Tony place to live these days... But the writers managed to think things through and pulled it off. "Hmm... Oh, right... the attack in AVENGERS by aliens would change things in the city, there might be areas that would become more high crime... OH... And with all the destruction we'd have all this construction going on and contracting and where you have that, you have unions, you have kickbacks, you have organized crime... TA-DA... A crime filled modern NYC as the back drop for DD." That's taking a fantasy concept, applying real world ideas (while still keeping it firmly entrenched in a universe where there are Helicarriers, green rage monsters and people with "radar senses" that were trained by secret martial arts cabals) and having it pay off handsomely. This isn't also a question of "tone" or "maturity". That same sense of "we aren't just going to hand wave stuff or take tropes and ideas for granted" could and should be applied to any and all sorts of fantasy concepts to make them just all around better product. Take the INCREDIBLES as an example... Now, was it at the end of the day, and all ages family entertainment? Yes. Was it a well defined and well thought out world for telling super hero stories? Yes. Those things do not need to be at odds and I feel that fans that want that aren't just being nitpickers or are over thinking things, most especially in live action adaptations aimed at an audience over the age of 18.

Again... I don't want to have a deep, philosophical treatise on the incarceration of meta humans... But it helps to give a show like this dimensions and depth when the writers at least DO give a damn about those types of details to care enough to at least address such things in a somewhat logical manner.

This may sound like I "hate" on the show. I do not. I very much like Gustin, think he's doing a good job. His scenes with most of the cast, especially with Joe or his father are actually quite good drama wise. The SFX is killer on the show, the writing of the Wells "mystery" has been compelling as hell and while I have my quibbles, the evolution of the Flash as a super hero is a great way to get a handle on such a powerful character for TV. I mean... He can't just start out vibrating his molecules and creating tornado gusts with his hands. That has to be learned. The problems with the show for me are some spectacularly bad casting decisions for what should be key characters, or worse unnecessary characters, as well as some spotty writing on a handful of other issues on the show. But... I am still watching every week. The show is enjoyable. If I didn't like it I would have dropped it the way I did SHIELD, despite hanging in until just about the end of season one of that show. I don't see that happening with Flash... I just wish that they put some more thought into certain issues on the show as well as get that the "CW" stuff, is not what makes that or ARROW, hit shows. It's the high concept super hero stuff. No one (colloquially used) is tuning in for the Barry/Iris/Eddie stuff. Why? We could get that on ANY OTHER SHOW on the CW. It's obvious that the super hero aspect is what is selling the show and putting it on the top ratings wise.

 

[Justin]

Not just food... sanitary conditions, sleeping... they just never thought about showing that or bringing that up. Not to mention that there were at best three people there looking after them but those three all went home at night.

Think about if YOU or I were kidnapping just one person and holding them against their will... But we still have to keep them alive and in reasonable condition. That's ALOT of work. Now quadruple that oh, and add in freakin super powers. Yet this was hardly brought up at all on this show for more than, what, a dozen episodes or more? It was not an aspect of the show that presented the writers as covering their bases all that well, and hopefully they think such issues through better in the future.

I have watched from episode one but never came around here much cuz while I like the show immensely it had and has some things that make me question the show runners and as with lots of forums here and I didn't want to be Debbie Downer with my dislike of some aspects. So I don't know, but was this something other posters here on the Hype pointed out at all?

It's mentioned a lot. On almost every thread when the pipeline is featured.

They even had Ray ask Cisco about it in the crossover as a nod to the fans, then something happened before he could answer.

It's something the show makers are aware of at least, but I think they want you to just suspend your disbelief and assume it's taken care of.

 

[Verick808]

It's mentioned a lot. On almost every thread when the pipeline is featured.

They even had Ray ask Cisco about it in the crossover as a nod to the fans, then something happened before he could answer.

It's something the show makers are aware of at least, but I think they want you to just suspend your disbelief and assume it's taken care of.

Which is pretty easy to do, really. They didn't look like they were starving in the last episode. Whatever the case, they didn't really have much of a choice. It's the pipeline or kill them. Sometime next season they will probably work something out with the local authorities and iron heights. Maybe Flash will have more influence when he becomes a little more famous.

 

[SpideyVille]

We saw Weather Wizard with a Baseball and glove ..... obviously they take care of them.

 

[Loki882]

It's not just food. It's other stuff. Do they have access to lawyers? Have they been charged with anything or had a court date? Do the proper authorities even know about this prison? Those cells look smaller than you're average prison cells, and they seemingly have no bed, furniture, or toilets (which a lot of normal prison cells have). So how does that work, or how to they bathe, etc? And the fact that it's been brought up shows that they're aware of it. But simply bringing up a problem doesn't mean that it isn't a problem if you don't actually address it in any real way. In fact it makes it even worse because it shows that you're aware of it but just choosing not to address it. It's the whole "Moira trial/Oliver losing his company" nonsense from Arrow all over again.

The point is that you've got a secret, private prison seemingly controlled by like three private citizens who have no real legal authority. And the living conditions seem to suck frankly. And this show, unlike Arrow, is trying to push Barry and co as the more straightforward/light-hearted "heroes," which makes it stick out even more. It doesn't kill the show for me by any means, I still think that it's quite good overall. But I'd be lying if I said that this detail hasn't been bugging me all season.

 

[batdude]

Well it wouldn't have killed them to put a toilet in one of the cells, but I doesn't kill the show for me. Next season problem I guess.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I think Peek a Boo venting angst was justified. There is nothing in the cell but walls.

 

[mr. peasant]

It's not just food. It's other stuff. Do they have access to lawyers? Have they been charged with anything or had a court date? Do the proper authorities even know about this prison? Those cells look smaller than you're average prison cells, and they seemingly have no bed, furniture, or toilets (which a lot of normal prison cells have). So how does that work, or how to they bathe, etc? And the fact that it's been brought up shows that they're aware of it. But simply bringing up a problem doesn't mean that it isn't a problem if you don't actually address it in any real way. In fact it makes it even worse because it shows that you're aware of it but just choosing not to address it. It's the whole "Moira trial/Oliver losing his company" nonsense from Arrow all over again.

The point is that you've got a secret, private prison seemingly controlled by like three private citizens who have no real legal authority. And the living conditions seem to suck frankly. And this show, unlike Arrow, is trying to push Barry and co as the more straightforward/light-hearted "heroes," which makes it stick out even more. It doesn't kill the show for me by any means, I still think that it's quite good overall. But I'd be lying if I said that this detail hasn't been bugging me all season.

The answer to all your questions? Conservation of detail.

It's not crucial to the plot, season arc or character development. Therefore, we don't have time to slot it into our precious 42 minutes.

 

[Lencho01]

Danielle Panabaker Confirms Killer Frost's Arrival on "The Flash"

I'm Danielle Panabaker, from THE FLASH or SKY HIGH. AMA!

 

[mr. peasant]

Danielle Panabaker Confirms Killer Frost's Arrival on "The Flash"

I'm Danielle Panabaker, from THE FLASH or SKY HIGH. AMA!

Speculation time:

Spoiler

My guess is that it'll be a wedding between Ronny and Caitlin; with someone killing Ronny at the end.

 

[Kster95]

Speculation time:

Spoiler

My guess is that it'll be a wedding between Ronny and Caitlin; with someone killing Ronny at the end.

She then blames Flash for letting that happen and cue Killer Frost.

 

[Bathead]

The answer to all your questions? Conservation of detail.

It's not crucial to the plot, season arc or character development. Therefore, we don't have time to slot it into our precious 42 minutes.

There ya go.
We really don't need to have every little detail explained. If they did, then people would start complaining about how the story is dragged out and spread between multiple episodes.
Again, I bring up atman Begins where Alfred picks up Bruce in that remote airfield. I assumed that Bruce had gotten to somewhere there was a phone to call Alfred, I didn't need to have that shown to me. Apparently, there were some folks with small imaginations the couldn't figure that out for themselves.
I assumed here there were facilities and such available to the inmates that simply weren't shown, as it wasn't important to the story, just extraneous filler that would have dragged the show down.

 

[Avenging Angel]

She then blames Flash for letting that happen and cue Killer Frost.

I think this'll further push Caitlin away from everyone. Not just Barry.

 

[Loki882]

There ya go.
We really don't need to have every little detail explained. If they did, then people would start complaining about how the story is dragged out and spread between multiple episodes.
Again, I bring up atman Begins where Alfred picks up Bruce in that remote airfield. I assumed that Bruce had gotten to somewhere there was a phone to call Alfred, I didn't need to have that shown to me. Apparently, there were some folks with small imaginations the couldn't figure that out for themselves.
I assumed here there were facilities and such available to the inmates that simply weren't shown, as it wasn't important to the story, just extraneous filler that would have dragged the show down.

Not the same thing, sorry. That's ONE insignificant scene. This is a ongoing thing throughout the entire season involving multiple heroes, that the show itself has brought up. Sorry, I DON'T consider this to be an "insignificant detail." It's a big detail that makes the heroes look bad, and it'd be pathetically easy to explain. Oh and please spare us the "small imaginations" nonsense. That's BS and you know it, so cut the condescendtion.

 

[DrCosmic]

The answer to all your questions? Conservation of detail.

It's not crucial to the plot, season arc or character development. Therefore, we don't have time to slot it into our precious 42 minutes.

Noting that Team Flash are not inhumane kidnappers who deprive people of their rights isn't a minor detail. If we read it as anything other than bad writing, it makes Team Flash pretty doggone evil. It's worth mentioning somewhere in the 800+minutes they've been doing this foolishness, and I'm glad they finally did and pointed out, rightfully, that they are criminals, they are wrong, no responsible person would sign off on this and the prison failed to be of any good because of time, and they suffered the consequences, thus making the metahuman problem much worse because of their criminal, irresponsible behavior, because they 'didn't have time' over the past year to do the right thing.

 

[Crimz]

Speculation time:

Spoiler

My guess is that it'll be a wedding between Ronny and Caitlin; with someone killing Ronny at the end.

Spoiler

And when Ronnie is replaced by Jason, she holds great resentment, as she believes it's disrespecting Ronnie. So she would hate Jason for replacing him and Stein for 'betraying' Ronnie. Could lead to her being a Firestorm villain.