The Flash The Flash General Discussion and Speculation Thread - Part 5

[gugumugats]

Interesting. Thanks for the reply! Yeah Jay Garrick is in Rebirth along with all those other speedsters. Don't know much about him but I'll look out for Flash of Two Worlds the next time I'm at the store. Anything else you recommend to get me started with this whole multiple universe/timeline arc?

I've read a lot of DC, and I've felt that both "Infinite Crisis" and "Crisis on Infinite Earths" aren't easy jumping-on-points as they are somewhat dependent on knowledge of the continuity. However, some here may recommend "Crisis on Infinite Earths."

The recent "Multiversity" (by Grant Morrison) that just came out is a decent jumping on point if you want some fun alternate universe storytelling. Hard to summarize, but here are the chapters given as individual issues:

1) Issue 1 introduces "main story" that focuses on the multiverse and gives their version of the Legends of Tomorrow with a team that comprises an African-American Superman, a Super-Bugs-Bunny

Issues after this each focus on just one specific universe:

2) Pulpy WW2 type of adventure. Also introduces concept of "evil counterpart universe."

3) Second generation heroes that's kind of a satire of the current state of comics and the Millenial generation

4) A Watchmen pastiche that is the author's thesis on comic book storytelling. This is a mind-trip to read (i.e. try reading it backwards Memento style and it still kind of makes sense).

5) Captain Marvel/Shazam story.

6) A Guidebook to all the universes in the multiverse (you might want to look for this one)

7) Alternate universe where Superman had landed in Nazi germany and the Nazis won WW2. There's a Nazi Justice League here that is opposed by minority superheroes.

8) Umm, this one is based on a superhero that exists in the real world. Kind of a mind-trip to read

9) Labeled Multiversity #2 which is the last chapter that ties everything up but in a not-so-net bow. However, they do make a Flash reference here and how he's significant to the Multiverse (based on his role in Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint).

 

[Lencho01]

Ha!

https://***********/MarkWaid/status/601038565594783744

 

[JJLong]

Ok I've seen a lot of people on here's theories
Eddies sacrifice is the lynchpin
Eobard ceased to exist, so
Barry's mom isn't murdered
Dad not imprisoned
Wells is alive, Eobard didn't murder him
What else happens who knows?
Do we get Metas, Grodd?
Is it a number of years before Barry is hit by lightning

Then $64,000 question, if Eobard doesn't go back and possess the Wells identitity. Why would Eddie ever self sacrifice.

And if Eddie never sacrifices himself, then Eobard lives and he eventually goes back in time and kills Barry's mom and the timeline starts all over again.

 

[gugumugats]

I just realized that the Flash season 1 is a twisted take on Back to the Future.

There's even incest involved.

 

[HELL N' SPIDERS]

So does anyone have any theories on why the wormhole started back up randomly and became out of control?

My theory is that because Eddie kills himself and kills Reverse Flash that all that light we see leaving Reverse Flash's body is temporal energy and combined with the temporal energy that was just released from the wormhole was enough to reopen it and since they had already shut down their equipment they had no way to control this one and it just started growing.
Do you think we will every get an actual explanation for that?

 

[Spooderman]

So does anyone have any theories on why the wormhole started back up randomly and became out of control?

My theory is that because Eddie kills himself and kills Reverse Flash that all that light we see leaving Reverse Flash's body is temporal energy and combined with the temporal energy that was just released from the wormhole was enough to reopen it and since they had already shut down their equipment they had no way to control this one and it just started growing.
Do you think we will every get an actual explanation for that?

Probably because he caused a parodox.

If Eddie dies, then Eobard wouldn't exist, but the only reason Eddie killed himself was to stop Eobard.

 

[haephestus]

Probably because he caused a parodox.

If Eddie dies, then Eobard wouldn't exist, but the only reason Eddie killed himself was to stop Eobard.

I agree. I think the second singularity / black hole was caused by "time" trying to correct itself after Eddie inadvertently created a paradox when he sacrificed himself to save Barry and everyone else.

 

[Bathead]

Sounds like a reason.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

I've read a lot of DC, and I've felt that both "Infinite Crisis" and "Crisis on Infinite Earths" aren't easy jumping-on-points as they are somewhat dependent on knowledge of the continuity. However, some here may recommend "Crisis on Infinite Earths."

The recent "Multiversity" (by Grant Morrison) that just came out is a decent jumping on point if you want some fun alternate universe storytelling. Hard to summarize, but here are the chapters given as individual issues:

1) Issue 1 introduces "main story" that focuses on the multiverse and gives their version of the Legends of Tomorrow with a team that comprises an African-American Superman, a Super-Bugs-Bunny

Issues after this each focus on just one specific universe:

2) Pulpy WW2 type of adventure. Also introduces concept of "evil counterpart universe."

3) Second generation heroes that's kind of a satire of the current state of comics and the Millenial generation

4) A Watchmen pastiche that is the author's thesis on comic book storytelling. This is a mind-trip to read (i.e. try reading it backwards Memento style and it still kind of makes sense).

5) Captain Marvel/Shazam story.

6) A Guidebook to all the universes in the multiverse (you might want to look for this one)

7) Alternate universe where Superman had landed in Nazi germany and the Nazis won WW2. There's a Nazi Justice League here that is opposed by minority superheroes.

8) Umm, this one is based on a superhero that exists in the real world. Kind of a mind-trip to read

9) Labeled Multiversity #2 which is the last chapter that ties everything up but in a not-so-net bow. However, they do make a Flash reference here and how he's significant to the Multiverse (based on his role in Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint).

Very cool. I looked it up and yes, it's new, so not available in paperback for a while. I'll try to find all issues if I can, and if you recommend it that much. One last question--Besides the Flash books I listed that I own, any more Barry Allen stories that are worth it? I think I've read most of the hard hitters and "beginner" stories. Thanks for all the info and help!

 

[gugumugats]

Very cool. I looked it up and yes, it's new, so not available in paperback for a while. I'll try to find all issues if I can, and if you recommend it that much. One last question--Besides the Flash books I listed that I own, any more Barry Allen stories that are worth it? I think I've read most of the hard hitters and "beginner" stories. Thanks for all the info and help!

I think you picked most of the "important" Barry stories already:

In "chronological order":

1) Flash of Two Worlds (just get the digital copy, I think it's a single issue story)

2) Crisis on Infinite Earths (I never fully read it, it's not the best jumping on point)

3) Life Story of the Flash (by Mark Waid)- this one is a really good primer on decades of Barry Allen history. It's written as if a photo-biography by Iris West.

4) Flash Rebirth

5) Flashpoint (up to you to skip issues in between Rebirth and Flashpoint. Those stories never paid off)

6) New 52 vol 1-4 (and maybe volume 6, skip 5)


I also recommend the following Wally West runs:

1) Return of Barry Allen (probably my favorite Flash story)

2) Terminal Velocity (didn't like this as much but it's a fan favorite)

3) Dead Heat
3b) Out of a Time - sequel to a dead Heat and it's a mildly entertaining story of Flash lost in various future eras and trying to get back home

4) Geoff Johns Omnibus (at least get Blitz and/or Rogue War) Blitz is also one of my favorites.

If you're a fan of Captain Cold and co.:
BONUS: Final Crisis tie-in: Rogues Revenge

 

[Nicko-Ray]

1) Flash of Two Worlds (just get the digital copy, I think it's a single issue story)

Oh. Thought it was a trade. My bad. Okay.

2) Crisis on Infinite Earths (I never fully read it, it's not the best jumping on point)

Got it. I might pick it up if I see it--it seems like such an essential despite me not having too much knowledge of that realm in the pocket.

3) Life Story of the Flash (by Mark Waid)- this one is a really good primer on decades of Barry Allen history. It's written as if a photo-biography by Iris West.

That sounds really cool. Adding it to the list.

4) Flash Rebirth

Got this one. I was expecting so much since a lot of sites were saying how good it is, and it's Geoff Johns but I wasn't too impressed by it. I did enjoy the whole Black Flash thing though. Maybe when I get more into The Flash and other speedsters, I'll enjoy it much more.

5) Flashpoint (up to you to skip issues in between Rebirth and Flashpoint. Those stories never paid off)

I got this one, too. Loved it. Doesn't really require too much to know, and plan on reading it again along with all that "Flashpoint Paradox" stuff. What do you think?

6) New 52 vol 1-4 (and maybe volume 6, skip 5)

I have 1-3, but have only read 1 and 2. Love this series, especially the art and feel. I don't think 5 and 6 are out yet though on trades. What's wrong with 5? I saw that Manapul isn't drawing, right?

I also recommend the following Wally West runs:

1) Return of Barry Allen (probably my favorite Flash story)

2) Terminal Velocity (didn't like this as much but it's a fan favorite)

3) Dead Heat
3b) Out of a Time - sequel to a dead Heat and it's a mildly entertaining story of Flash lost in various future eras and trying to get back home

4) Geoff Johns Omnibus (at least get Blitz and/or Rogue War) Blitz is also one of my favorites.

If you're a fan of Captain Cold and co.:
BONUS: Final Crisis tie-in: Rogues Revenge

Thanks so much for the list! Exactly what I wanted. Would you say that there's more Wally West books out there than Barry Allen? Maybe there's a Barry Allen run omnibus out there.

 

[gugumugats]

Oh. Thought it was a trade. My bad. Okay.

Two worlds is often included in Flash greatest hits type books. For instance it's in the Flash celebration of 75 years which just came out. The trade also has other classic Flash issues worth looking at.

I got this one, too. Loved it. Doesn't really require too much to know, and plan on reading it again along with all that "Flashpoint Paradox" stuff. What do you think?

I didn't think any of the Flashpoint tie-ins were any good except for Flashpoint:Batman. You're better off watching Flashpoint Paradox (watch after reading the main trade and the Batman tie-in due to spoilers)

I have 1-3, but have only read 1 and 2. Love this series, especially the art and feel. I don't think 5 and 6 are out yet though on trades. What's wrong with 5? I saw that Manapul isn't drawing, right?

Volume 4 is Manapul's last. Volume 5 is by a just-for-hire team and is basically filler. Volume 6 is polarizing but it basically makes a future Barry Allen the villain of the story.

Thanks so much for the list! Exactly what I wanted. Would you say that there's more Wally West books out there than Barry Allen? Maybe there's a Barry Allen run omnibus out there.

It's only because most Barry stories were written way in the past before trades were a thing. Plus old Barry stories seem really quaint, dated, and sometimes juvenile.

There are Barry trades and omnibuses in the form of DC showcase if you think you might like that kind of thing. However, I recommend some of the modern Wally West trades more than these.

Now that I mention it, classic Silver Age Iris West is one hell of an unlikable self-centered and condescending character. I guess the show runners were trying to adapt that (jk, I'm apathetic to CW iris)

 

[TJByrum]

Wait, why did Barry sabotage Eobard's way home? Barry's a prick.

 

[Herolee10]

Wait, why did Barry sabotage Eobard's way home? Barry's a prick.

Because he wasn't willing to allow Thawne to just walk away free after everything that he's done.

Plus, there's no way that Barry could guarantee that Thawne wouldn't pull some time traveling stint again later on that could ruin everyone's lives once more.

 

[Steyin]

I saw some images of the Flash suit with the white emblem and gold boots/shoes. Were those manips or leaked?

 

[Confusion]

Wait, why did Barry sabotage Eobard's way home? Barry's a prick.

Barry dedicated his life to finding the dude who shanked his mom.
He not only finds the guy, but is also told he is capable of going back to stop it all from happening so he'd get his mom back and his dad wouldn't of gone to jail.

Kid Barry didn't actually see his mom die. Future Barry got him out of the house right before.

So "real" Barry FINALLY gets his chance to make his life dream a reality after 15 years of pain.

But his future self tells him to stand down and let it happen....

He wasn't present for that moment 15 years ago, but now he is right there, only a wall between him, his mother and her murderer, and he has to listen to her get murdered....He watched her take her last breath....

The only difference between now and 15 years ago is that he KNOWS who the killer is.

How helpless he must have felt....So I can't really fault him for not thinking about the big picture at that moment.

15 years ago was only seconds to him when he got back to the present.
And that asshat who JUST took out his mom is sitting right in front of him.

I would of had a problem if he didn't attack him....

watching that scene go down was heartbreaking! The acting was scary awesome.

Sorry for the ramble....
I ust want to give the Flash a hug after that Finale....

 

[zenith16]

Because he wasn't willing to allow Thawne to just walk away free after everything that he's done.

Plus, there's no way that Barry could guarantee that Thawne wouldn't pull some time traveling stint again later on that could ruin everyone's lives once more.

truth be told I think it was the fact that his mom died in his arms & it made barry even madder at Thawne & since he let the version of Thawne that killed her in the house get away, cause he needed to have his good bye (his final good bye supposedly) with his mom. The only way he'll be satisfied is to punch Thawne where Thawne would still around where he can punch him cause he's ticked off and that was back at star labs.

He just really needed to hit Thawne & since barry couldn't save(twice) his mom there's still the issue of his dad in jail. his mom alive would mea his dad wouldn't be in jail. but that failed so....

 

[scifiwolf]

I haven't been a poster in The Flash forum much, but I really wanted to chime since my wife and I watched the finale last night. I can't remember a better first season to a show in my lifetime. Or a better season finale. She and I were crying and laughing and yelling through the episode. I like to talk about the hallmark of good storytelling is when a writer/director can literally have push-button control over a viewer's emotions. They really did on this episode, but mostly because the season preceding it was so solid. This and iZombie have turned into two of our favorite shows this year.

 

[Rorschach2012]

really wondering how they're gonna do Jay Garrick! lots of ways they could do it..

 

[Rorschach2012]

I can't wait for this show to introduce Jay, Wally and Bart. Jay and Wally are musts for s2, Bart can wait for s3.

I want to see Wally take on the Flash mantle eventually while Barry is stuck in the speed force, and then we can get a Rebirth inspired storyline

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Really can't wait to see Wally. I'd love to see a full season of him as the Flash before a Rebirth-like story which propels us into a Flash family focus.

 

[zenith16]

I can't wait for this show to introduce Jay, Wally and Bart. Jay and Wally are musts for s2, Bart can wait for s3.

I want to see Wally take on the Flash mantle eventually while Barry is stuck in the speed force, and then we can get a Rebirth inspired storyline

Really can't wait to see Wally. I'd love to see a full season of him as the Flash before a Rebirth-like story which propels us into a Flash family focus.

It'll be interesting if Wally's around the same age as Barry too, since Linda park was made that way.

A year younger is as far as I expect wally to be age wise . but it'll be hard to call him kid flash unless it's to drive him crazy.

cause of them being about the same age & all. it'll be like a re occurring joke I guess do't call me that he'll have to be called the blur though


I'm not sure an all yellow top will work for him ether but he's s speedsters so stealth won't matter for tie time being other wise's I'd put him in dark blue . side's I think Reveres flash has the yellow down pat now.


I'm also guessing he'll be Iris's cousin instead of nephew

 

[king666]

Someone on twitter asked "why didn't eddie just shoot his ****?"

 

[gspot]

Really can't wait to see Wally. I'd love to see a full season of him as the Flash before a Rebirth-like story which propels us into a Flash family focus.

As much as I'd like to see Wally and am stoked about the idea, if I'm being honest with myself - I'd much rather see a couple seasons of just Barry being the Flash, without being led by the hand by another mentor. I'd like to see him being The Flash as we knew him in the comics, before he took on a sidekick.

I'm more excited about the idea of a multi-verse or alternate timelines being explored. Would love to see Barry meet Jay Garrick for a couple episodes, I'm hopeful they will introduce Hal Jordan, have Cisco become Vibe, and I hope that Amanda Pays is asked to return for season 2 and has a scene with JWS.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

God damn that episode was crazy.

I love that CW are getting a superhero show done right.